Alliance 'Chat' ??

[Blade10]

Unfortunately, i don't know how to do clever little things, such as creating a link to a specific item that i need, to highlight a point i would like to make.
Instead, all i can do is give u the text - letter for letter - of what was said, from the screenshot i took this Saturday....

[Alliance] Blade: 'Reports of bad guys in Emain ?'
Jozen sends 'diss that stuff from as'
You Send 'What ??'
Jozen sends 'not needed on as'
Jozen sends ' i don't like seeing Emain talk at all and questions about emain is just out of the question'
You send 'I will refrain from replying to that' to Jozen
Jozen sends 'whos ur GM ?'
You send 'Azash'
Jozen sends 'ok'


Wtf is all that about ?
For those of u who don't know who 'Jozen' is, he is some geezer who i have seen around occasionally, and like myself is in the Celtic Fist Alliance. I would take a wild guess that he actually is in CF, but would only have a small bet on that
At the moment on our /as motd, r the words to the effect of 'Don't spam /as, and if u see spam, don't reply with more spam' - blah, blah.
Ok, fine. I don't have a problem with this, and i try to keep my comments in /as down to the minimum, eg '19fgs Albs @ amg', u know the usual stuff.
Obviously, i overstepped the mark here, and i would appreciate ur thoughts on how i can be a good little BM, and improve my attitude in this area.
Btw, i will totally understand any flame regarding my despicable behaviour relating to my comment in /as, and am so ashamed i'm thinking of giving up the game.

 

[Jozen]

Fyi im GM and allso one of 3 running alliance atm ;-)))
And yes im rather inactive atm since the game lost its edge about 7months ago or so.

 

[Blade10]

Originally posted by Jozen
Fyi im GM and allso one of 3 running alliance atm ;-)))

Good 4 u

 

[Jozen]

well since u even doubted i was in CF etc etc flame flame u didnt behave so make excuses here tryin to whine and flame etc.

 

[<Harle>]

OK, first of all Jozen is not only a member of CF, but actually one of our GMs. Anyway, there's never been some place where anyone could check up some guidelines for /as-chat, and noone was born with the right knowledge of what belongs there and what not, so I'll just give my general Idea about the topic:

The CF-alliance is the largest Alliance worldwide ( RP-wise) and I guess about 400 peeps in Hibernia can see the nice white text at peek-times and I bet at least 200 of those could write something on it (numbers are made up, but i think they get pretty close).
Seeing that large amount of people with access to the 'chat' it gets clear that a set amount of rules or guidelines is needed to maintain some order, so everyone can actually enjoy the game.

The most important guideline would be: "Use common sense!" Before typing "/as ..." ask yourself if the message really needs to go there. Since common sense varies a lot, here some general guidelines:

What needs to be on /as (no question these things should always be on as):
"Enemies attacking keep xy, #fgs, help needed!"
"Mids/Albs at Dagda!" (yeah, should be there )
"I got emain-cg, pm for invite!"
"Taking/Retaking keep xy, help needed/msg me for cg"
"Setting up Legion-raid...."
"Extraordinary event taking place..." ( Goa-events, poem-contest, duel-tournament, RDRF-collections etc)

What should not be on /as:
"Grats!" (when someone dinged 50 - just pm him)
"Who has emain-cg?" (just ask someone in guild, or do a /who emain and ask anyone there)
"Albs at amg!" (Yes, they have to pass it to get into emain, no news here)
"SPAM / STOP SPAM" (Only heats up the argument, if you need to tell the person he is spamming, do so in a PM)

Ok, that's all i can think of atm, of course there is a large grey-zone. Something unacceptable at Saturday 20pm might be OK at Tuesday night at 4 am ( never seen anyone complaining about Spam at late-night).
OK, all this is imho of course, no guarantess, no money back if someone disagrees
Comments welcome

 

[Jozen]

Niceone Petrus, im not much into forums glad someone did that post tho

 

[vulcan1]

Orignal Alliance Rules as set down by CF the link I guess Gray Will know


1. Only GMs and Officers are to be allowed to speak on Alliance Channel, this will help to stop spam messages from newer players. If somebody else needs to speak they can ask one of their Alliance Speakers to send message. It will keep down the number of people using the channel yet hopefully ensure that every guild has someone on at any one time that can use the AC.

2. It is up to each Guild to decide who gets to see the Alliance Chat, maybe keep the newer members away from it until they can be trusted. We don't need spies hampering our efforts.

3. Alliance chat is 'NOT' to be used for items/groups/congratulating people/rezzes and all other unnecessary spam. If people use it for any of these purposes they are to have their AC privilidges removed, no questions asked.

4. Alliance Chat is for passing Information on enemy realm activity and to keep in contact during offensive strikes against said realms. When giving Information be clear and precise as to numbers and levels, make sure that what you are sending is correct ie. 10 Albs, red con to lvl 40 at base of Crimthain and 'NOT' lots of high level albs runnin around emain killin peeps. It will be up to the individuals common sense as to what should be said in AC. If we have one invader in Gorge maybe dont use it, if we have eight invaders in Gorge it could be useful for Alliance to know.

5. No arguing, flames or calling people names. If you want to do that do it in a private message. Treat others how you would like them to treat you.

6. Quote from Gray 'Generaly use your common sense when using /as and remember we are all on the same side - so lets be nice to each other'

 

[-Nuked-]

wow lucky im not in CF alliance! i think i have broken all of those rules via HoF /as dont give up blade its all good.

 

[old.Xanthian]

Well as of lately ive been less than impressed the way the alliance has been run.
Saying things on /as about enemy where-abouts in E-Main gets abuse, and PM telling me to shut up.
Other day was an arguement between LA & VGN, went on for a good few mins, no-one said a word, then I make a joke on /as and I get bollockins from CF.

Sounds petty but recently the alliance has been run like a Nazi concentration camp, and tbh it sucks.
Now if you want it to be run this way Jozen, I shall reply to you as Mein Fuher.

I think you need to start cutting down on lowbies that have /as that spam bullshit, rights rather than flaming ppl that use it for a genuine reason.

(ps. these opinions are of my own and in no way reflect the opinions of my guild)

 

[Blade10]

Ok Harle, now we're getting somewhere.

You make some reasonable points there, and as i said myself, i understand why there needs to be guidelines and also how i usually limit myself to helpful comments in /as.
'Reports of bad guys in Emain ?', imo is a reasonable question, as i am about to enter this area. Obviously i'm not in any cg, therefore i don't want 3fgs + Albs/Mids on my ass if it can be avoided. What i also noted, was the fact i hadn't seen any text in /as at the time, therefore not 'spamming' other useful chat.
From what u have just wrote, at worse what i said might enter the 'grey' area u mention. In my opinion, it was a very pertinant question. I would be interested to hear of other 'grey' areas, as would probably 9/10's of this alliance.

Remember the word 'alliance'. It means 'partnership'. That means we work together and help each other out.
Do u want to see grps of ur Alliance wiped, because someone was afraid to type '3fgs Albs @ amg' ? That's ridiculous.
Anyway, i started this thread to provoke a reaction, and that is what i have got.

Quote:

'Anyway, there's never been some place where anyone could check up some guidelines for /as-chat, and noone was born with the right knowledge of what belongs there and what not, so I'll just give my general Idea about the topic:'

Good idea, let's have some more input into what the CF Alliance requires of it's members, in the cans and cannots department.
Jozen, u have already posted in this thread, so let's here what u have to say about the subject. A perfect opportunity for u, and i'm a bit surprised that u havn't offered anything as yet, apart from the usual stuff about flaming/whining. Believe me, if i flame u, u'll know about it.
What irks me most about this game, are kids who can hurl abuse and unpleasantries at people from behind their pc, and get away with it. It's irrelevant to me who the GM of CF is. I play this game for fun, and i have no regard for people who attempt to ruin that. If u think i have said something that doesn't fit with ur criteria in the future, just make sure u remember ur manners when u speak to me.
Thx.

As for the rest of the alliance, this is ur chance to ask questions, and i'm sure Jozen will be only too happy to answer them for u. Don't be afraid to post any thoughts u might have, just because it might offend Celtic Fist. They started an 'alliance', not a dictatorship.

Btw, like Xanthian, these r also my own thoughts and may not reflect the way my guild think as a whole

 

[Gray-CF]

its really quite simple

over 800 people are in the alliance so the less spam the better.


For the most part most people that have the ability to speak on alliance have either been around a long time and should know the basics - or if they are new there respective gm/officer should fill them in on the correct use of it.


Its never going to be a perfect system - nature of the beast.

But through just some common sense and knowing the basic rules of it its should 'not' be as big a hassle as it is/can be

Harles post pretty much sums up whats acceptable and whats not - and Vulcans reposting of the rules (thx m8) shows them pretty clear as well.


We cant police it 24 hours a day - and we cant control who within individual guilds has access - only which guilds are in the alliance -

And as stated since the year dot - its not to be used for grats/resses/grp/general emain crap(use a cg) etc etc

But also as harle stats its dynamic - what most people would see as harmless at say 3am in the morn may not be during primetime.

And as for asking "reports of bad guys in emain"

while not be an evil question etc

1. when is there not 'bad' guys in emain?
2. ask in /gu or ask about emain cg in /gu
3. /who emain - pm someone for cg etc

so in fact it wasnt needed on /as

oh and btw blade you say u dont have any regard for people that attempt to ruin your fun - fair play m8 - but please do have some regard for the people that have helped setup and run one of the most sucessful doac alliances in the world.

and Xan as for people being pmed about spam etc after seeing someone else misusing /as -

1. they probably got a pm too
2. maybe whoever just pmed you only just logged in


Anyways any questions need answering - get posting - ill answer them asap - thx

 

[old.chipper]

think harle summed it up pretty nicely

 

[angrysquirrel]

hmm sounds horrible blade !

there are 3 main english speaking alliances, CF (oh plz pm me when i talk!) , CBH (never tried it) and the Hof one (say wtf you want).

out of those 3 alliances, guess which one is the best, offers most to players and makes the game FUN ?

pm ilaya for info (sorry ilaya doll )

 

[Danya]

Yes lets just all spam /as whenever...
<Watches 100 lines per minute of /as flash by>
<Switches off /as>

Woot now the alliance channel is really useful!

Seriously if you need to spam use guild chat, you don't need to broadcast to 20 guilds.

 

[old.Mick]

only say something on alliance chat IF AND ONLY IF the entire alliance needs to see it

im cash farmin in cm and want to know if a keep is getting attacked so have an eye on /as. i do not give a flying f**k about bad guys in emain THERE ARE ALWAYS PPL IN EMAIN!!!!!

anyway on a more serious note i think the number of ppl who can say things on /as should be dropped severely, and yes this does include my own guild we are as bad as everyone else


oh and the only reason /as is spammed a lot of the time that people are too lazy to pm ppl or havent read the manual and know what "/who emain" does

 

[elerand]

I'm with angrysquirrel, HOF alliance was one of the most fun I've been in, not saying it's perfect, at times it was a pain with spam but tbh I turn off /as often enough when just xping and so on, when I enter the frontier I'll turn it on, if there is a keep raid I will have been imformed anyway, if there is a relic raid I can be sure as hell someone will Pm me.

Sometimes while enforcing /as rules, and just so blades knows if he doesn't like it he can easily move on to a guild in an alliance that might suit him more, it's always nice to be friendly first, "Hi I'm spod, GM of wibble, maybe you dont know the /as rules but here's why what you said isn't really allowed...any other questions ask your GM" not too hard.

Seem to recall an arguement once over the relevance of some information, a keep raid was ongoing in mid, we needed about another fg to bust the doors down, open DF and possibly stay and farm rps, asked if anyone could make their way there and so on and got flamed for it, got accused of asking for grps and people to fill grps...no, we are 2fgs, both full and just need some assistance.

Kinda gives the impression that rvr is all about hard numbers of farming and not getting together and having a laugh and achieving something beyond x fg of hibs scrabbling to kill 1fg of alb/mids, think some people need to broaden the perception of what rvr is and means to others, don't need to spam /as once someone says "yes we are in mid", we can pm them and ask them to move to a particular keep, to me it's a halfway mark for guilds to make contact with others who are similarly interested in acheiving a common goal.

Guess some get punished when others don't but that's really not so uncommon irl is it?

 

[Faeldawn]

Game has too many rules for me as it is, im amazed you guys manage to keep that tight a reign on yer alliance chat.

We cant be arsed, life is too short

 

[JoxerTheMighty]

lay it down, guys.
There is no "perfect" alliance. As numerous times stated above, there always have been problems with spammers in it and the question whether a "group of albs just outside DL" should be posted in alliancechat or not has also been discussed on at least equal occasions.

Imo...../as kinda works well these days. And tbh...I can live with a unwanted spam every now and then. I mean..come one...compared to the "old" times the spamming has decreased dramatically.

Sure..there is always room for improvement but I rather have one or two "spam-messages" than dozens of afraid Hibs who dunno if the 10fgs of albs who just passed Scathaig are worth mentioning in /as or if they would get a nice "stop spamming"-msg, if they dare to post that.

Nevertheless......rules are rules. CF made this alliance and everyone who joins it has to obey their rules. I just ask that you... (well...how to put it...) just take these things a bit more relaxed.

 

[Dodgy Geeza]

I for one prefer /as the way it is...
Agree with what a lot of ppl have said - and its not just because I'm in CF.
My chat screen is busy enought with /gu and pm's without hundreds of /as messages that aren't relevent to me.
/As is a channel for high priority messages...
Don't get me wrong we've all made mistakes, I've had my priveledges removed for one drunken incident =/ but I've learned the hard way.
Keep it for what its meant for - to help in RvR and most importantly for relic saftey.
If you have to turn off /as then you might not hear the 20fg of Albs at Dagda message until a few minutes too late...
I know some ppl might think that this is strict - but I've played games where everyone has access and its like being in TNN with everyone shouting over /br to be heard...
You can't read a single line because it scrolls up the screen so fast.

Not flaming anyone - just my opinions...
Take care all and have fun

DG

edit : added removed* (its late/early) =)

 

[Erekrose]

Yeah this is the kind of stuff we need. More whine, more whine.

Seriously though CF think you may have lost sight of the fact this is a game.

 

[Salazar]

Bah.. Jozen is worst spammer himself

 

[censi]

aye, but I agree with xanth, there is no need for any of this nazi syndrone... the daoc community knows when someone continually abuses /As, but generally this works pretty well and most people use /as responsibly... I think blade was more shocked by the arrogent tone in the pm... its only a game ffs..jozen would have been better exercising some wisdom thats usually a requisit of any GM or alliance leader... its usually better to educate and express your opinion in a friendly manner than just try and tell other people what to do (and thats the difference between good and bad leaders btw). like I say its a game, nothing more nothing less....

 

[old.Hothnogg]

Makes me laugh. Most the time that someone complains about /as spam over /as its from someone whos not in CF. We not the only ones to complain you know!

 

[Pocyourhontas]

Too many rules, too many rules!!!

Understanmd the need for some constraints on AS but its been ridiculous lately.

I agree with Xanthian, seems like a set of double standards to me. One guy will get told to STOP SPAM immediately he opens his mouth on AS and another gets replied to with jokes etc, even by members of CF, dont deny it.

AND

If someone says there are bad guys in emain, so what? yes, there are always bad guys there, but there may be 3 Fgs of hibs on way too, and they could get to Emain and farm a few RPs on their way thru. So its worth knowing.

Also

If they arent to tell you there are bad guys in emain, would you not be interested if they said there were 10FGs of mids there? u know, the sort of thing that makes a relic raid! or wouldnt you want to know that ?

Just my 2 penneth, not my guild's.

 

[Gray-CF]

aye well said erekrose gg


thats why

A: Its one of the most sucsseful alliances in the world
B: Most people are happy with it
C: Its works (for the most part)
D: Most people dont turn it off to xp etc - and thus we dont end up losing a relic and then hear from people "sorry my /as was turned off i didnt know there was an rr"
E: Those have been the rules for close on to a year so i guess we are doing something right
F: The whine wasnt started by us m8 - go see the first post

and whoever said it gives the impression its about hard numbers and farming - errr NO - its about having a useful tool to help defend the realm when there is a serious threat to it -

and angrysquirrel im glad your happy with your alliance etc - but posting stuff like "out of those 3 alliances, guess which one is the best, offers most to players and makes the game FUN ?" just makes you look a cunt - seen anyone from CF here going ohhh we rule our alliance is teh best! we r teh win! NOPE - didnt think so - yes the game is meant to be fun - last time i looked my guild and i seem to have a lot of fun - and CF alliance chat is for helping to defend the realm - end of story -

And jox i bloody hope anyone with /as would be shouting damn loud if they saw 10fgs of alb just pass scath


Anyways - to the people asking questions etc - post your guilds please so i can know if its someone from one of our alliance guilds - kinda pointless answering questions to those it doesnt affect - kthx

 

[-Nuked-]

agreed each alliance has its own rules also agreed it is just a game and is meant to be fun. it depends on the person really - most ppl in CF alliance may be happy with the strict rules they throw down or they wouldnt be there, personally i believe i the Hof /as is fun fun fun but thats just style of play i like - hof doesnt have the largest range of people so its not mass spam (on the border lines or lots of spam) - most of the guilds in the alliance arnt even currently in action anyway, but as i said thats my style, very friendly and fun - the people in CF /AS must be pleased with the army type style of /AS command or they wouldnt be there.

 

[Faeldawn]

Nuked j00 spam masta

 

[Anu]

Well from Fianna's POV anyone I newly promote to officer level that has never had /as before is told not to abuse the privalige on punishment or a demotion.

AFAIK Fianna ppl don't spam bollox and on the whole i can't say i notice a great deal of bollox on /as

 

[Erekrose]

Originally posted by Gray-CF

D: Most people dont turn it off to xp etc - and thus we dont end up losing a relic and then hear from people "sorry my /as was turned off i didnt know there was an rr"

Ah i see. Where are we hiding our relics again?

 

[cjkaceBM]

Half of the issue is that people see /as as Alliance 'Chat' when its not, its an Alliance Channel. Taken to it's logical conclusion this would infer that it's a tool for the Alliance to use, for the betterment of the Alliance.

What is actually wrong with this tool is not the spam, it's the spam about the spam, which is totally infuriating and bloody pointless. If someone posts a message that you consider spam, ignore it. DON'T REPLY, DON'T PM. It scrolls up the screen far faster that way, and the important stuff isn't lost.

Some people are making the point about it becoming too strict and tbh I agree. This is my leisure activity, I play it for fun and to try and relax. If I want rules, want to be told what I can and cannot do every five minutes I go to work.

It's also bloody annoying that a tool for the whole alliance is restricted to the minority who RvR all the time. Let's be honest, half the messages on /as are about where the walking RPs are, not that there's any threat to a keep, relic etc.

But as in all of life there have to be SOME rules, so heres my 2p worth.

/as is RvR only at primetime. Primetime is 6pm - 12pm GMT weekdays, 3pm - 12pm GMT at weekends. This means its used for RvR messages only, NO GRATS, ADVERTISEMENTS etc.

Outside of these hours relax it. Allow grats messages, happy birthday etc BUT replies are to be PMed to the happy person. This doesn't mean it should be for asking for groups either.