Albion wants a leader

[lac_desariel]

All i see on this at the min is flaming about leaders, and we got wooped here and mashed there. CplCarrot is right about what hes says about being a leader, and someone also said about people wanting to be lead. but who are our leaders? has any one stepped forward to do this? I know a few in Fin and Wildfire, but im new to the Realm RvR, having only knocked up RR3, how ever i have lead a few times and been told i can do a good job.

Whats this all about?
Well i will Step Forward and take that role to help those that dont want to lead all the time..
I will lead you if you will listen and follow.

Lac Desariel

 

[froler-mid]

 

[-yoda-]

imo not many folks out there that have the know how to lead a large alb army properly . they are either to elitist and expect pure perfection from the army "which never happens and never will" and also to quick to judge people by there lvl/rp's or how well known they are .

of the folks ive sen lead since ive been playing Daoc good leaders ive seen are Finster / Arythwr / Fin / Mallus / and a cple of others i cant remember atm . but most the others just dont cut in imo takes more than just knowing strategies to lead . patience / willing to listen to others ideas / not judgemental / if all goes pear shaped doesnt find somebody to blame but puts it down as a error learnt and not to make again .


lots of peeps lately trying to lead = only goes with his plan ./ only listens to other well known folks / is hotheaded / always judges folks he dont know well as noobs

 

[lac_desariel]

Well Yoda like i asked the other day in emain.. give me a chance and then judge me. before then you cannont, as for RR and RP they mean nothing at all, anyone can have a high RR all you need to do is go rvr enough, it does make you good or bad. as for when i lead if people do as i ask (not tell) and it goes wrong i take it personally as my fault. i want us to stop being pushed about as a realm and start going forward

 

[Falcor]

I try my best now and then, and have some sucess, no one is perfect tho and no tactics r flawless, had some good runs in rvr and ive done the legion raids, dunno how ppl feel i do? be honest, i dont mind.

 

[loxleyhood]

Theres a lot of contempt towards those in command. To be a well balanced realtively skilled leader will make you hated by 50% of all people. At any rate the ability to lead is over-rated, I respect the ability to follow much more.

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by froler-mid

that sums up your images, ok?

 

[Kagato.]

Albion has many leaders, about 800 i'd say at anyone time, what we need is good followers.

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by kedal


that sums up your images, ok?

 

[yog-hurt]

well ummm Lac your my mate and all - but tbh rr and rp's do mean alot.....when you say it just means you go rvr more it also means you have more experience in different situations, therefore it means everything imo. and designating a single leader! lmfao no way in the world would 90% of the noobsih albions even comtemplate listinging to one individual....i.e tonite for instance when aussie was leading the Dragon raid .....for some reason people seemed to take the mick out of Aussie at some points, i,e refering to him as an idiot and calling him anoob etc... but tbh the peopl making these remarks were RR2L -4 kind of thing! Aussie is obviously a good player considering he is the only Alerion Knight Scout on excal and ummm well i dnt see too many of those do you ? basically all im saying is i dnt think you would fit the bill for one(sorry cause your my mate and all) 2. albion wouldnt listen, wel 90% at least

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by froler-mid

you replied to it :/

 

[arrithus]

I think a leader should be voted for and not be the person who spams in caps the most in cg.

Katral
Elfslayer
Marrah

They are all good players who I would like to see lead. Not some Muppet calling everyone noobs.

 

[-yoda-]

Originally posted by lac_desariel
Well Yoda like i asked the other day in emain.. give me a chance and then judge me. before then you cannont, as for RR and RP they mean nothing at all, anyone can have a high RR all you need to do is go rvr enough, it does make you good or bad. as for when i lead if people do as i ask (not tell) and it goes wrong i take it personally as my fault. i want us to stop being pushed about as a realm and start going forward

i wasnt doubting you i'm willing to give ANYBODY a chance regardless of lvl or rr . if they have respect for the people who listen to them and have good ideas for leading then i'll follow him/her
dont have to expling to me about rr and lvl meaning nowt cos i 100% agree but not gonna start that debate again with peeps who think rr and lvl does mean a lot "cos we all know they wrong in thinking so "

 

[old.Odysseus]

A leader is not a person that is a good 1v1 fighter. He does not participate in combat, he stays out of it, maintains strategic control and deals out orders.

Hence the number of RP is irrelevant in many aspects. That said, a good portion of time spent in RvR will allow you to know your enemy's strenghts and weaknesses.

Groupplaying in RvR is also a thing a leader must master. If he does not know the workings of the group, he will never be able to delegate the work of seperate groups.

Karisma is a must, especially in a place where everyone is eager and has lots of initiavtive. The leader must be able to impress on everyone the image that he has control over the situation at hand and will react in a sound and logical manner. Only thus will he gain the respect and trust of his army.

The leader must keep his army informed of his own intentions, the army's operations, the enemy's whereabout and possibilities. He must issue orders in a shortspoken manner that is easily comprehensible and very precise.

Long talk, read it if u can be arsed. Any flames can be directed at Frederick the Great, Napoleon, Sun Tzu and Machiavelli cuz what I just said is more or less taken from their words.

 

[TaF]

Originally posted by Kagato.
Albion has many leaders, about 800 i'd say at anyone time, what we need is good followers.

Exactly, but that following part will never happen in zergs of course.

 

[old.Wildfire]

"He does not participate in combat, he stays out of it"

So if I were to yell "CHARGE!" at a milegate standoff, and then stand there...

It has been proven time and time again that in this game the only way to lead is by example. That involves getting stuck in, getting your hands dirty, dying first by leading a charge. Some people are all talk and no substance, and this doesnt help a realm at all.

 

[Arthwyr]

A charge at a milegate is hardly a challenge of leadership. Leadership is all about decision making and ppl respecting those decisions therefore willing to carry out the orders without questions asked. Basicly if the leader tells you to jump off a cliff you jump of that cliff. A leader also has to be patient and good at troubleshooting, finding logical anwsers to problems that arrise on top of the normal RvR mayhem ... ppl going ld, needing relogs, buff problems, speed problems, enemy timetable etc ... if you think logicly you can forsee 70% of where the enemy will be at a certain time. When the situation does get complex with several groups of ppl performing different tasks at different locations it is indeed best of the leader does not partcipate in combat directly but stays at the keyboad appointing someone to process certain parts of the information he gets and to coordinate his orders in detail to the group receiving it. Perfect example was the first rellic raid I ever had the honor of leading where ody did a great job at handlint the information from the interdiction force and giving them detailed discriptions of the orders i passed to ody in a brief form ( great job that time ody )

If you kill a huge mid zerg at amg and want to prevent em from getting back in emain you have about 10 to 20 minutes to get to mmg and prevent em from spreading all over the emain map.
Same for keep farming, some ppl will farm a keep and take 3 keeps before they go sit in one then get impatient because the mids/hibs take the other keeps back first ... well duh what did you think that they would go for the defended one first. Albs then get impatient run out to go look for the enemy get ganked and are not back in time to prevent the enemy from taking the last keep wich was now undefded as well. The 2 examples above seem logical i think but ppl still fall for it every time. Albion has several ppl who have proven themselves very capable of doing this in the past, and I am sure that there are plenty more around who haven't had the opportunity yet but are just as capable. Question is how can one earn respect as a leader in this obvious diffcult period for albion when it concerns RvR and when the old generation of leaders doesn't seem to be motivated enough to step up again and take charge. (and personaly i cant blame em for not being motivated its a very ungreatfull and timerobbing job at the end of the day)

My 2 copper ...

 

[old.Odysseus]

So if I were to yell "CHARGE!" at a milegate standoff, and then stand there...

Let me rephrase my original statement then:
A leader should refrain from engaging in any type of combat except to save his own life. He must retreat from combat and leave it to the soldiers to fight.

The leader must appoint his lieutenant, which are the people that will act upon his orders, leading the men directly. These men must me bold, willing and able to fight and will lead from the frontline (Paladins make a great leader btw). He must be easily recognizable for his men.

Now as for your concrete exemple of a milegate, Sure the leader could participate in the charge, but if I were that leader, I would simply let a lieutenant do that while I would gather intelligence from other albs in the area to try and plan ahead.

Leaders do NOT participate in charges because it makes them lose strategic overview. In this concrete situation, the army would have to stay around the milegate or move randomly around.

Ofc, the lead by example is a problem in that aspect, but this is the by far most effecient way. If you have just 1-2 capable lieutenants, it will not be a problem.

great job that time ody

Thx

 

[old.FIN]

Well ...how i might put this..=)

Example:

RVR in pennines...

usually chat is made, and peeps r like "w00t i do now?"

then its time to "lead" some , make 2-3 strike forces and inside those r leaders of that army what peeps listen and follow...

then there is scouts/intelligence gatherer , thos emove alone, usually infils, its hard job and maybe boring, but its strategy...

then there is keep eye peeps, those just sit on keep and look if it gets some door knockers.....

then when enemy location is known its time to take action...

main thing is kill enemy, and take back keeps not maybe in that order!!!!

tower near excal is camped, tents r up, tabel served, wine bottles r open and enemy is waiting us to go there, well let them finish their party and we r doing our job mean while, whats taking keeps back....and of course we have eye's on that party also, so we know if they move..

on that point we have like 20-25 guys on chat, leading is made from 1 point, and that guy is "moving flags" in map

and scouts ( not necesserily scouts as character) r providing nfo what they provide in chat, strike team leaders r asking orders, and orders r given based on scout reports.

then after very funny 3-4 hours enemy has cleared from frontiers by using MANY "leaders" that r moving small amout of peeps using f.ex main chat.

Also those scouts r 1 kind of leaders there, they can also work together, and PM to each other some of their movements..

Leaders of different armies can chat together and disguss about strategy what to do , where to go, and those aint GANK the enemy asap...there is many ways....

That kind of playing has been very succesfull at pennines, and there has been more than 6 fgp's of enemy whats been spanked not by zerg but using good leading from numerous peeps.

that same stuff can be moved to emain BUT it will take time because peeps c 2 much at emain just RP...

making defence battle to offensive aint hard, just try to think how they might defence our attacks, dont go to enemy area to defend, go there to attack...camping mmg in emain= pure defensive!!!!! and RP thinking!!!! and when using that style there is usually only 1 "leader" whats stressed like hell because he cant handle all the jobs him self, he needs backup group, like in pennines...

And when u look actions at pennines , mids/hibs dont camp hmg/mmg 24/7 , so why would we camp mmg at emain 24/7

we r in offensive area, do offensive action there!!!

take keeps and defend them, Zerg dont exist!

1 "leader"/ keep = not needed to lead 100 albs same time, and those keep leaders have scouts who reports of enemy movements, etc etc read above


IF peeps would be rdy to follow those "leaders" in emain doing some offensive action by using keeps, we would ROCK in RVR, ALB would be that realm that would be pain in the ass.

But this will take about 3-4 months more when albs learn this kind of tactics.

and EVERY1 is good leading battle in 1 keep, specially when he/she has been following whats been done earlier, and learned from that1, good and bad things..

WHEN we have learned to listen and follow 1 person inside keep, its easier to LEARN to listen "orders" in open...

 

[raven3]

ehrm

Surprising I did not see the names of zoyster and outlaw here...

Arent they power hungry muppets who only deal orders in benefit of their own realm rank?
Or is that not what we are looking for?
Very hard to understand why some people still listen to those 2 ...

Ohh no... Albion is not that stupid ... yet ...

 

[lac_desariel]

Well lot intresting thoughts here, and i get a feeling that peole are not appreciating me stepping forward knowing i will get flamed and told know.... basically the chance i will get laughed at. you spoke of tactics and being patient, those who have worked with me know thats my game. none of this mindless zerging, and dont get me wrong sometimes has its place, and no offenece meant to those that have told us all what a leader is or has. Leadership has these quailitys and yet it is also a gift, some are leaders some are not. Having Lead when serving in the Army and been on the relevant leadership courses im aware of what a leader is and needs to be. all i wanted was to stand up and be counted. dont flame me for that. And if im not to lead i am to follow a leader.

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Great leaders need many qualities.

Charisma, understanding of situations, ability to delegate tasks, good communications skills, patience.

I would say there are many good leaders with ability out there, but few naturally great ones. I would also say that RR does not denote anything to do with leadership qualities. Obviously time spent in certain situations increases knowledge of those situations, but great leaders it doth not make.

To have a chance leaders also need to build up respect. This can only come from leading. So to those that aspire to leadership I would suggest start small, say leading guild events, then move onto larger, maybe alliance events. People are like sheep, if they see someone succesfully leading something, they will want to tag along and your respect will grow.

Those people following should do that. The person may make mistakes, but he/she is trying. Youve signed up to be led by him/her so do it. Theres nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but flaming them in /y is out. If you are frustrated use /g or /gc but not /y or /s.

Anyways thats my opinion, and only part of it. <who said Im an opinionated *******>

[edit. Sorry was writing this while eating breakfast been a few replies since I started. This is not a flame or against anyone. Just my sunday morning rambling about leaders /edit]

 

['Shy]

For what it's worth :

Lac has been our guild RvR Officer since level 35 at RR1. He is our current alliance RvR Officer (and always has been) and has the respect of the whole alliance who follow him, no matter where he leads them.

He arranges regular alliance RvR events that all levels and realm ranks are welcome to, not just the high level players. Inviting all levels earns respect, not turning them away because they are not high enough or they are grey. When you see Lac out and about with our alliance you will notice the massive range of levels, and you will notice that they follow him.

Now we could say that I should be that leader, since I play Aoe at RR4 L5, and Lac is still RR2. But I am not a leader. People are born leaders, and nothing can change that.

If Lac wants to be a leader give him a go. Or the select few of you work together? He's successful at what he does with our alliance, so why not just listen for a change? Or does Albion not want a leader?

 

[Kralen]

Leading a big zerg is nearly impossible. First of all, you ever will get in contact with people you don't know. That people really won't listen to you. To give commands in a huge CG where everybody is trashing the chat, doesnt work.

A big Army must be organised from the beginning. One leading CG, yes a full CG of leadership. Every group leader should be in that leading CG. All of the members of that leader CG vote for the main leader. Yes, vote that is called democracy. People will follow the leader they voted for.
So, main leader says commands in that leader cg and all the group leaders give the commands to their groups.

10 players in one cg will be willing to follow a leader. And all the people in the groups will follow their groupleaders.

You really need a structure in the leadership if you organise it.

I tried to make a sollution how leadership prolly can be done. No way to invite all and everything in a cg, yelling commands with CAPS in the cg and flaming and crying if people wont hear. Chaos cant be leaded.

It's just an idea, discussion is welcome, flaming not.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Lac, not one derogative word about you leading has come forth.
If I were you, I would take the posts here as advice. Assuming that you know all about leading is as naive as it is wrong.

Dont take it as flame. If you wanna lead I can only urge u to take initiavtive and start arranging stuff.

Btw, leaders do not spring from endless talking, they spring from action.

 

[lac_desariel]

never once do i claim to know all my friend, i try to talk to people i feel know things i dont, in order to improve what i do and the way i do it.
all i wanted to achive by this post is that i am willing to try and help lead albion stop getting pushed about by middys mostly.

and my hat goes off to em cos they are organised and play well as we do sometimes but not enough.

as your right when in charge you take other peoples ideas and make em work, your experiecne can sometimes be the experiance of those you have following you.

Till then and untill people are willing to follow i to follow if lead.

 

[old.FIN]

hmm, have lead , will lead, made mistakes, will make mistakes, thats me, and yes i talk but so what, i also act =)


and something about Outlaw and Zoyster, well they have their own ways, their main goal is win a battle, either though they will usually get killed at start, but so what, they still do it, and they r funny boys, and they have some nice tactics move, so plz, dont flame the boys =)

and as they have said many times they have owned your ass also templar =)

 

[old.Odysseus]

Heheheh ye outlaw and zoy make a lot of fun moves, heres an example from a relic raid some time ago:

[Door 1 down, rams door 2]
Zoyster: "'Lets AOE the ubers!!!"

Now that was a blast, luckily Kantz was there to stop them

 

[Falcor]

A leader has gotta want to lead tho also.....no use just saying to some1 u WILL lead, if they dont want to do it, they prolly wont do a good job.

Also i think we need leaderS plural, or else all the work is on one persons shoulders, and belive me it is hard work..not more than one at a time of course, but one person cant lead all the time.

I guess half of albion think im some psycho power hungry tank who likes to yell at ppl in capital letters :/ or i guess anyone who has been on legion raids lead by me think this...i dont use capitals cuz i want to...just to get the job done, i will keep leading in rvr if ppl want me to, if they dont i wont, its really upto the albions and what they want. I know what i want, i want to WIN..

As i said before, be honest , how do u think i do? if u tell me ill try and change for the better, i think u shouldnt be too hard on ppl using caps letters tho, i do it for clarity, no other reason than to keep ppl alive.

 

[ironheart]

leader?

first of all i would like to apolegizy if typo's are in here.

yeah we need a leader.

a major prat would be ideal. joke

i have seen some ppl in action lately an there are some worthy Tacticians out there. BUT none are leaders.

i have seen the combined forces of Wildfire and Aussi in action and i really liked the result. To clarefy myselfe, it was on dragon raid. First attempt, aussie and wilfire made their suggestions on how to do it. Some ppl really did not seem to care at that moment and even ignored the orders.
result: Near wipe out
Second attempt: Aussie stayed calm and clarefied why this was a failiure. Second attempt: a group should follow the main man, wildfire. Rear attack, most groups REACTED this time.
result: a nice bashin, reason we had a wipe out, not enough fighting power. BUT the result of some simple tactics was nice: 30 percent left i think.

conclusion: most ppl need a good spanking B4 they start listening.

so how could u get albion to work?

some ppl have a reputation:
organizing talent, tactical talent and the easiest talent that most seem to have, the talent to break others to the ground.

falcor , tiarta, aussi, seem to be good organizers, they have a reputation that precedes them;(btw: not criticizing their way of doing things this tim OK!!! lol)
becides these that seem to organize some major events, we have ALL guildmanagers that take care of their guild. THESE are the most crucial part of albion. If these ppl cant handle their guildmembers, that guild will not be effective in major events. Most guildies listen to their GM when they are in a major event, BUT some seem to just be there to mess things up.
Next step to succes is to get the GM 's to talk to each other. To let each other know how things go, what the probs are etc.... this is in general terms i meant, so in our realm. In combat it will be loads easier to get a group leader to get the message to his group then when the organizing leader is yelling his socks off. cause some are out of yelling range or something and can't hear it.

This does only work for organized events.^^^^^^^^^^

So how about RVR????
U cant organize anything there, all ppl can do there is hope some full groups are there from respected guilds and follow those ppl's orders. But that hardly is the case. 8 different ppl from 8 guilds in one group with one group leader is good for farming, no tactical play.^
When FC or some other great guild gets their ppl together, things move out there, the earth shakes (metaforicaly spoken) they succeed even in giving killhorde a hard time. Wallskirmish etc.. they succed. They have a lot of players so its easier for them to be able to do something.
PPL that have good intentions in RVR can only hope that ppl will listen to them. Can only HOPE that the other players understand and agree with these.^^^
UNLESS ppl play with guilds in rvr, group up with their highest level players and go out there. That the group leader is talking to other group leaders to clarify their intention/// create a battle plan/// then try to get it out there.

more talking, less action<<>>sounds weird i know.

well i'll quit it B4 my GOOD friend starts calling me a PRATT again cause he seems to like me ;-)

all i wanted to say is talk to each other first then act, take ur time, during tanglers pulling, or levelling, use that alliance thingy.
I don't know how that thingy works with u gents, but ours is Silent, hehe. Try to work together, not against eacht other. Talk about our enemies, not about the annoying pratts in our realm.


o , one last thing, i read something from odeseus i think::: about those leader beeing on the back...

that is OOO SOOO TRUE. leader do not stand in the front row and charge themselves to death, unless he's a suicidal paladin that hopes to get lucky, and if he has the necesairy backup to get him thru that wall. The tacticians have to oversee the battle and correct things while its happening. Napoleon wasn't on the front line, nor was Hitler, nor is BUsh now, so the brains stay back and keep talking while others die
hehehe