Albion Random Group RvR Bible Project v1.0

[cplcarrot]

Great post and some nice ideas here.

I gotta go with the cowled point of sbs and tbh, this problem is only going to get worse when the IP nerf comes in. It seems to me this is going to serve only to encourage inf teams. I am often unbuffed running round emain and it is not rare to walk into a team of 5 or more sbs.

The only way I know to combat this is to team infs with buffs ourselves

An additional point I would like to raise is this.

It may be an idea, rather than spend all our time defending hibernia (both mids and albs camp each others milegates)

to try to change the current situation of the caster realm having all 3 power relics. Easier said than done, but I feel its the crux of the problem (if Im right in thinking less power == more change of mezzing succesfully).

great post though and nice to see it hasnt been badly flamed.

 

[skile]

Scouts are very overall. We are great slammers. We can take on tanks 1on1, we can shoot casters etc. We can slamprotect+guard casters.

My personal choice is standing next to a caster shooting at nmy targets (casters and non tanks first ofcourse) and if a tank is inc to the caster I slam him.

 

[bellum]

My insight

I give my view of this that hasnt been given (or I have missed it)

First of all... why do a 1fg group hib "usually" wins over 1 fg group albs.
And the answer is mostly CC.
And thats becaue hibs has instant mezz. What hibs is doing is that they isntant mezz you and after that casts their castable longer lasting mezz.... -> Game over for alb group.

And only solution for this is that EVERY alb in that group has bought purge.
Mostly thats not the case but in 1.52 when every oponent realm has instant mezz , you will get mezzed in almost every fight it and should be an Alb law for it.
Atm I consider every Alb player that hasnt bought RA spec purge is a gimped RvR player.
And I have heard every excuse and not I am I am not bying any of them atleast not in 1.52.

For the group... Ideal group is to have two or more CC controllers.
Ideal one Mind spec Sorc and one Body sorc.
Why you say ? because after (yes almost counting for it) druid has group purged its good to have a second CC.
Any mezz and any root is good. And I do consider root almost as good as mezz. Anything that stops running tanks are a good thing.

<Excalibur Albion> <First Cohort>
Bellum - Theurgist Level 50
Dhs - Wizard Level 50
Musket - Minstrel Level 24
Spi - Infiltrator Level 18

 

[old.FIN]

Chain casting cabby is HUGE nukerso is DBL dotting cabby

it makes LOADS dmg, it keeps enemy healer busy, it uses IP's from tanks, it interrupts casters..so keep cabby alive 8 secs in start of fight and let him spam AOE DOT to RIGHT spot...

 

[lac_desariel]

/bump

one more to add the Earth wizzy

As one myself this is what i tend to do, my first spell out is always AOE Root,

i tend to play back up CC to outlaw but the more CC the better ( and hes fast)

You nuke in same way any wizzy would do, but again your a back up nuker cos you dont dish the same damage that they cam, i know pramas does 500+ a shot where i do 300 ish(ice for 2 sec cash and higher base dam)

I like to DOT hurt enemy as like a fire and forget or dot and nukes,
Bolts are v good but over rated on all casters,

and finaly the AOE snare its great if CC is broken and AOE's are flying every where but poor 4 sec cast.... a very versitile addition but not the best at anything, except keep defence maybe? but thats a diff post ona diff day.

If any know any other tips for the earth i may have missed or forgot add em

 

[Belomar]

Great idea!

I was thinking about this a few months back (I had lots more free time then) and tried to sketch on the contents of an "Albion Field Manual". Basically, not only would this cover class-specific tips, but also group tactics issues (i.e. non-zerg) which, IMO, are much harder to learn than how to play your own class properly.

It's great if Quib/Celt has the time to compile all the stuff found in this thread to a real such field manual. I can surely help in the spare time I have (maybe at least illustrate it with some nice stories ).

I don't know of it will help, but here is the outline for my field manual that I sketched out:

1. Fundamentals: introduction, definitions, etc
2. Basic Group Tactics: group composition, moving, fighting, CC, /stick
3. Know Thy Class: class-specific information
4. Know Thy Enemy: recognition, abilities, etc (with pictures)
5. Know Thy Terrain: locations, places, and /loc in frontier zones (with maps)
6. Organization: chat groups, /yell, coordination, commanding an army
7. Advanced Tactics: several groups, group combat maneuvers (flanking, etc), scouting
8. Raids: keep raids, relic raids, etc
9. Appendices: checklists, glossary, etc
   [/list=1]
   Maybe you can get some inspiration from this.
   
   Regarding minstrels in RvR, I often find myself driving, partially because I like doing it, and partially because it is often convenient to have the speed up front. This puts me in a good position when we need to chase down fleeing enemy groups (often pop SoS to be able to mezz underhindered without having to twist speed).

 

[Strondor_New]

THEURG WORKSHOP

Originally posted by old.Odysseus
I will follow Jigg's lead and post some theurg-specific advice:
(All of this is based on air-spec).

-You are NOT the primary CC, dont get yourself killed trying.

-Root is your friend, especially the singletarget. Use it to take down purgers or other non-mezzed ppl.

-AoE CC (root and mezz) are best used for emergencies, with current resists those 25 +/- seconds wont last long.

-Nuking is fun, apply it to those that go down the fastest. Very situational, but often the bard/healer/druid is a good place to start, nukers next. Sadly druids and healers have a ton of HP - hence take time to kill. I normally go for bard, then nuker.

-Nuking is fun!

-Nuking is fun, but dont waste it on tanks till all supporters are dead. You can take a caster in 2-3 blasts.

-PBT or Runspeed? In small groups i use group bt + speed, in groups with 4+ I use pbt unless there is no other speed available. PBT cuts down your available nuking power.

-Pets.... use them for interrupting non-cc'd casters and the like. They have 1875 range vs. 1500 on everything else u got. Use it. It is possible to solo tanks with petzerging.

-Make up more stuff yourself.

i would agree with all of the above, apart from the fact air theurgs CAN be grp's primary ae mezzer. Lets face it there aren't enuff sorcs in alb, but in any event with purges, grp purges, and resists fg v fg fights are won or lost in the 1st 15 seconds, so whether the intended ae mezz is sorc (1 min +) or air theurg (28 secs) becomes rather academic. Get that ae mezz in 1st and run to back of the fight... turn.. look to see if any tanks are still moving and cast single or grp root as appropriate.... target a caster... 2 nukes should do it..... by now at least one tank will be gunning for you and prolly mez / root proof as well.... pray u have stun tank protecting.. pet and nuke as appropriate.. what ever u do ...don't stand still for more tahn 5 secs.. move and cast. move and cast.. sprinting if necessary.. tanks are so precious about their silly endurance wanting to save for their styles etc.

If u find urself with a big hairy tank on you...and for whateevr reason u can't root/ mezz him.... my fav bit here.... MOC spam 3-4 air pets on top of him (and use use ur first aid too).. the tank gets chained stunned often... which reduces his hits on u.. then finish him with 1 or 2 nukes (i find nukes alone do insufficient damage to well eqipped tanks).

Alternatively MOC spam BT'S for 15 seconds (with buffs u'll be pumping out bt's nrly every 2 secs).. awesome protection for u whilst hopefully rest of grp will have come to ur assistance, + whole of grp has had benefit of ur spammed bt's.... this can be awesome if it happens before or after (not during) a BOF from the cleric ... nme grp totally owned and without any or much damage to ur own grp

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sissyfoo
Makes a change to see a positive thread for once.

Err...what do SoS and BoF stand for? I still don't know half the terms in this game yet. :/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Since ody didn't actually say what they stood for - Speed of Sound and Bunker of Faith.

Cheers Fin. Thats all I wanted to know.

 

[old.Odysseus]

a /bump and a comment on (air) theurgists:

You do not act as primary CC unless you are the only option left. This is for emergencies only, it will get you killed time and again:

a) Open with the root - its range 1500
b) Follow up with the mezz - range 1250

Dont try and open with the mezz unless there is a really good chance of surviving it, you are to valuable for the party to go down in the first 5 secs.

Sometimes the better option - instead of betting all on the aoe CC - is to hang back and singleroot tanks (1 min duration), letting your teammates handle support. In this situation, the enemy tanks purge the root and you throw the aoemezz when they enter melee with your own group.

Very situational - air theurgists have so many nifty spells which can be employed in thousand of ways.

 

[old.Astrix]

I used to whine about Albs vs Hibs or Albs vs Mids too but no more. Been playing with a guild group for a couple of days now and we rock, ppl know what to do and even when we get surprised we own other groups.

 

[old.Sepiritz]

I have discovered a huge bug in DAoC.
It consists of a text truncation error of some sort I believe.
For example, I was once out in emain with a random group and we ran into some hibbies trying to kill us and a druid spotted me waving my hands in the air and tossing glowy blue stuff around so he sicked his doggie on me. I said in group chat 'Pet on me!'.. This time I think it came out on the other end as 'Go hit a mezzed tank!' and thats what they did instead of helping me with the pet so I could heal. While I was sullenly whacking at the doggie with my hammer missing half the blows my tank friends were getting nuked and said 'HEAL FFS!' so I thought I would inform them of my predicament and said 'Pet on me!' thinking it would help but this time my message got transformed again and into 'Go hug the pbaoe caster!' and they did. Suffice to say, we got killed pretty fast without causing any casualties on the other side.
On another occation I once again experienced this bug but with another text, namely 'Tank on me!' which apparently meant charge in ignoring your healers cries for help and get wasted and then have the nerve ask 'What went wrong?'...

To put it a bit shorter; Protect your primary healer, he can give you lots of extra lives, especially after everyone respecced to rejuv and enhance. My best heal is for 726 hp which means I can heal alot better then most tanks can damage you for but ONLY if I am not engaged by stuff in melee, in which case I will need your help to get rid of them before I can heal again. This is about as important as having a defensive tank for primary cc and even more important then having one for primary nuker which people forget lots of the time because clerics are just heal and buff slaves and should work stuff out for themselves but are expected to deliver when needed and stfu and behave.
No, im not bitter. Not at all. Honest.

 

[old.Odysseus]

/bump with more shameless advice:

dont protect Sepiritz, he will just smite the enemy out of old habit.

That being said, here is some tactical advice:

a) Dont run in on mezzable mob, run a bit spread out.

b) If you are more than 1FG, keep the groups at least a mezzrange apart when maneuvering.

c) 1! driver, also when operating with more than 1 FG

d) Upon contact with the enemy, make a swift decision whether to close in immediately with all the aggression available or try and fight them from range.
A tank-heavy group should always adopt the aggressive stance and tear into the enemy, while a range-damage heavy group should fight the enemy with CC, nukes and arrows.
However, the tank-heavy group can also have the tanks stay back and protect casters, although I personally dont like that approach.
In this aspect, everyone follows the drivers movements.

 

[Apathy]

Oh! Oh!

Last night in the Gorge with around 1.5-2fg of good players, we came across 2-3fg of Hibs. Not a problem. I was the only sorcerer there and we'd won all the previous fights simply because I stayed alive. That's what I like to think anyway...

So, spearo comes charging at me. I giggle and mezz him. Mezz wasn't resisted or purged but he kept on coming at me...hmm.

Then I swivel my camera to see...a 1H crush armsman obviously /stuck to the spearo, hitting it without styles or anything. Fuck knows what HE was trying to achieve. So I toss in a few debuffs and root, hoping he'll get the picture.

No.

Root is immediately broken. Spearo is still coming at me. I'm SCREAMING "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM IT!" whilst running for my life. I get some distance and start nuking/draining whilst someone heals me a bit. The stupid tank is STILL hitting it. Spearo moosifies (Still ignoring the fuckwit stuck to his ass.), kills me...the battle is over.

I mean, how RETARDED can you get? This guy wasn't even in our CG, it turns out. Some totally clueless n00b who just went F8 /stick F6 /afk! Aaargh.

I just wanted to whinge about that. The moral of the story is that...no matter how good you are at your role or how successful you are in your task, there is always some retard ready and waiting to mess it all up for you.

Macintosh, you are a completely clueless gimp. There. I said it.

On the plus side, we then all ported to Odin's and he ended up in Emain. Hahaha. And we owned and owned and owned. Then I had to go to finish packing my suitcase.

a.
*

 

[belth]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
Then I had to go to finish packing my suitcase.

Another clever plot by Mythic to reduce Albion to smithereens - suitcases

 

[Apathy]

Well, Mythic are sending me to Gran Canaria for a while, leaving Albion without any decent CC...

a.
*

 

[sorusi]

bump Great info here

another tip - NEVER GO AFK


Belth: "Also has the possibility of "magically" summoning 1-7 of its relatives." - loool



PS: HAHA apathy, tanks like that should get their accounts banned (ppl like that wich made me leave albion with one sorc less) (infact i wouldnt be surprised if 80% of the ppl out in the battlefields are semi-afk or afk)

sorcs: now cmon fellow sorc, there wont be any love in 2years etc, and you are gimped even your TL has given up either plvl a inf on tanglers or roll an hibb/midd that gets their monthly loveing from mythic - here is a link for you, if you want to see how dark the sorc TL forum looks. http://forums.crgaming.com/daocbb/viewforum.php?f=21

 

[sorusi]

bump to little whine in this thread to make it interresting

 

[Aurelius A]

Funny you should say that sorusi about stop playing your sorc and go PLvl a infi on tanglers, after getting completely and utterly screwed in the last patch with the DD damage type change guess what i went and done (well apart fom im doing it the hard way and not using aurelius to Plvl her).

it was either that or come and join you in mid...hope your enjoying it there anyway

 

[Tilda]

"Body spec : AoE disease, debufs, nuke
that order of importance you can always root some people aswell and use insta debufs to interupt their casters"

I beg to differ about this, in zergs by all means, aoe disease and then aoe dot,
but this is group vs group

in group vs group by the time ive debuffed they are dead, there is little point imo.

I spend 95% of my time nuking, i can take a caster down in 3 hits which is better than all 8 of their players diseased even thought their casters are still capable of nuking like mad.

so i would say for Body spec:

Life tap, MoC Life tap, AoE disease, AoE DoT
in that order.
generally by the time they come to interupt me the battle is over.

regarding MoC use:
MoC with Lifetaps can take up to 4 people out if your lucky, dont get stuned, dont get hit too hard, dont get messed.

look around, if 4 people in your group are dead and 4 of theirs are dead, use it.
if your groups dieing horibly dont use it, it may be more valuble in the 30 mins after you die and report.
dont use it if you have taken ANY dammage at all.
once or twice i have taking a little dammage and then used MoC only to either be 3 shotted by a spero, or stunned (mans you cant cast, even with MoC) and nuked to death.

Tilda

 

[Stormm]

What amazes me is how well ppl can work as a team in tangler/tree/df mob groups so well, ie get some form of cc in and take them out one by one in order or highest threat - and do so over and over in the most efficient manor....

...then these same ppl get into rvr scrapes and all the hours of following this proven levelling techniques somehow forget all of this completely and just f8, stick, bash.

If a group can just remember to treat hibs/middies just like mobs from lyon, df etc and actually assess the situation before panic attacking, taking em down one by one ('all on same' - shout heard very often when ggrp exp'ing) then the outcome of most even (ish) battles will be much more in ur grps favour.

summed up - treat hibs/mids just as u would mobs

 

[dakeyras]

Great post

I'll add to it by suggesting a tactic for offensive melee types when they are beating down a caster. It is a tactic I use alot with a Skald and will try with my merc when he is older. Of main benefit to those tanks who don't have slam.

Most tanks I see run up to a caster and start whacking...and the usual result is that after the caster has absorbed the first hit with BT, he does a QC CC followed by nuke/nuke/nuke = dead tank.

Instead the tank should attempt to avoid letting the caster face him.

If possible approach the caster from rear/flank, or wait till he is occupied with another. Target and approach in combat mode. You will automatically hit the caster and break his BT without wasting end on a style.

The caster will ususlly now face and start a quickcast CC. Instead of relying on being able to resist it simply step through the caster and hit /stick. As most casters don't /stick they will get 'target out of range' and will have to turn to face you. Use your most damaging style (might even manage a positional) and then step through them again. 2-3 big hits and caster dead.

Try it...it works

 

[Kagato.]

Nice tip, dirty tactic but I like it.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Heres goes the counter-tip for the above tip:

My qbar with the theurg reads
1: sprint
2: qc
3: /face
4: mezz
5: nuke
6+: other nifty stuff

When a tank attacks you, you simply press 2-3-4
Now you have the option of doing
press 1-run-make distance-then nuke
press 5 and pray (dont try this at home btw )

the point is that the tank is always /face'd.

 

[macintosh]

reply - my dear friend apathy 8)

you my friend - need too go get counciling for your obvious gameing addiction -flameing me in this forum was under hand and gimpish if you ask me - if youve got an issue with how i play my game - with my character you take it too private /send in game - instead of starting a arguement - wich i never looked for in anyway.
okie i messed up - so fucking what - who cares its only a few realmies anyway - but it seems you have a grudge now - fine - i know alot people like me and enjoy my company soo frankly my dear i dont give a damn --i had too reply too this since you decided too go public.as one nice sorcerer said too me dont worry mac - hes not even in the top 20 =P.

enough said. think on your gimpish attitude apathy - you started this - soo lets finish it in game

macintosh 50 armsman rr3 L6
kyth lvl 45 friar rr2 L2

 

[sorusi]

Most tanks I see run up to a caster and start whacking...and the usual result is that after the caster has absorbed the first hit with BT, he does a QC CC followed by nuke/nuke/nuke = dead tank.

Ehm this would be a VERY gimped tank, a smart tank would fit himself with 20 - 25% resist to all resistance (VERY EASY TO GET IN HIBB ), then he would get Avoidance of Magic 3 atleast (wich most do, unless they are that kind that never go rvr, wich you dont have to bother about in the first case.)

This would be 25+9% resistance 34%, and all hibbs and midds come with either a skald or a warden now wardens will allways have their resist buffs up adding about 8 - 16 more resistance.. (guess all got 16, since they specc in same line for pbt).. Skalds however gotta be smart to use them just as paladins, so they might not have these buffs..

Anyway 25+9+16 = 50% resist

ok lets say you hit a nuke for ~450 dmg

450*.5= 225

225 dmg, and you can crit for about 400dmg (lets say your very well equiped with RAs, so you got WP 3 crit chance would be 20% then 1/5, and you got mastery of magery 2 450*1.09*.5~245 dmg a crit of maybe 420 dmg or so...

Ok this is the damage you will be dishing and 50% resist is quite alot but lets say its only 40% wich sould be pretty common..

450*1.09*.6*~295

crit off MAX 500 dmg probably a bit lower..

Now you got Mastery of Art and capped dex at 300 to get cast time down from 2.6/2.8/3 -> 2sec

Lets say the Tank is a Hero (buffed ofc), they got atleast 2k hps buffed, probalby 2.2k or so..

Now you need 2000/500 = 4 criticals in a row to kill this tank. (8sec)

You need 2000/295 = 6.7 ~7 nukes w/o crit to kill the tank. (14sec)

You got a crit lvl of 20% so one of these hits will be a critcal for BEST 500 dmg.. lets pretend you do one of those here..

Now if you critical two times in the nukeing you would see this:
500dmg -> 1500 hps left 1
500dmg -> 1000 hps left 2
295dmg -> 705 hps left 3
295dmg -> 410 hps left 4
295dmg -> 115 hps left 5
295dmg -> 0 hps left 6

yes 6 nukes, and you would crit 33% - you would have to have luck to reach this form your 20% base crit due to RAs....

this is STILL _12_ seconds!! Tank would reach the caster within 5sec..

If the caster gets help by a cleric @ stunning the tanks (9sec stun) tank got 3sec to react after stun = dead tank...


But now with determination AND resistance lowering the stun (determination 3 - hes no f** gimp 45% shorter duration)

9*.55=4.95 and with resists scale off 30% here: 4.95*.7 ~3.5sec

Now tank got 12- 3.5sec = 8.5 sec to react, he would be interrupting and reaching the caster before he would go below 25%, and caster can qc root/mezz, purge might fuck him up,and there are allways nmy healers.. and FA, and IP...

So in short terms.. casters are fucked in daoc.. exept chanters cos they can debuff their own heat dmg and nuke awsomely and with that pet snareing everything for them they wont reach the caster in time


most casters havnt got 2sec cast time either on their nukes... its not like 3 nukes will EVER kill a tank, 6 -7 is more likely, and with resisits (spell resisted not the resist that lowers dmg but the one that doesnt do any dmg at all) the caster is evne more screwed...

Heck casters pay the price of cloth etc to be able to rape tanks in 4 nukes etc, and tanks pay the price to be raped cos they are *cough* stupid *cough* suppose to protect the casters vs other meleers and shades etc not some overpowerd god that walks thru 1fg of magic with avoidance of magic 5 and m00se etc...


Take away determination pls and purge and all RAs, its just for the loosers that need get out of jail free cards when they fuck up.. *grp purge* duh

 

[anno_dk]

...hehe

 

[Kagato.]

thats alot of RAs your demanding for that lot for a tank

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by sorusi



This would be 25+9% resistance 34%,

There is one slight problem with this....its bollocks!!

Sorry but it doesn't work like that. AoM reads as a straight 3% but it isn't. AoM factors in after the initial resists have been calculated and so ends up adding as little as 1% resist in many cases.

Alot of peeps in US are demanding RA respec after this little gem was confirmed by Mythic. AoM1 for 1 point is debatable value. Going as high as AoM3 or even 2 is just wasted points.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by sorusi

Take away determination pls and purge and all RAs, its just for the loosers that need get out of jail free cards when they fuck up.. *grp purge* duh

Take away mezz, stun and root then

Oh wait - lets all go back to the olde days when a tank was free RP it was much better then.

 

[Apathy]

Re: reply - my dear friend apathy 8)

Originally posted by macintosh
you my friend - need too go get counciling for your obvious gameing addiction -flameing me in this forum was under hand and gimpish if you ask me - if youve got an issue with how i play my game - with my character you take it too private /send in game - instead of starting a arguement - wich i never looked for in anyway.
okie i messed up - so fucking what - who cares its only a few realmies anyway - but it seems you have a grudge now - fine - i know alot people like me and enjoy my company soo frankly my dear i dont give a damn --i had too reply too this since you decided too go public.as one nice sorcerer said too me dont worry mac - hes not even in the top 20 =P.

enough said. think on your gimpish attitude apathy - you started this - soo lets finish it in game

1) I did tell you about it in-game. You still didn´t understand. If I have a problem with a gaming addiction, then you must be hooked on retardation. What are they putting in that these days? Cocaine?

2) Who cares? *I* care. That´s why I bother playing this game - because I care about winning. Otherwise I wouldn´t play.

Some people need to realise that the majority of fun in this game is derived through winning. Having the chance of winning fucked up by some twat with a hammer and no clue is a pain in the ass.

3) The reason I am not in the top 20 is because of fuckwits like you who think they are the only real player in the game and everything is AI that disappears when they turn off their Hewlett Packard that their special needs school gave to them to help with homework.

Finish it in game? You bet. If I see you within clipping range of my group, I will head in the other direction or stand by until you are dead and then start doing my job properly.

If you can´t play a game properly, do us all a favour and piss off to play Tetris.

a.
*