Albion Random Group RvR Bible Project v1.0

[Celt/Quib]

Albion Random RvR Group Bible

The aim of this is to creat a text where all that wish to do random rvr groups can establish a common tactical footing, to help overcome the albion problem (we loose most fights vs hibs if numbers are equal)

The goal is not to find out why this is, only to try and fix it, ie if you wish to complain about classes etc do it in another thread please.

This is not intended to cover Zerg warfare, but only roaming FG warfare. Many things are different in zergs and group setups can be very far from ideal and still work well (Thats why so many albs zerg, a FG that is too gimped to do skirmish can still work well in zerg)

The idea is too keep this simple, so every class only has to read a small part of the text, to be able to work well in a random team.

Ideally a player should only read the bit about his own class (and his own subclass) to be able to do teamwork properly

Once this project has reached a semi-finished state, I hope all the classes that needs teamplay to work well will set it as demand that all participants in the random groups they join have read the "bible", and that they will follow it.

First what is a random group?
Its the group you typically join or create at albions tks, i will assume a base of any random group is :

1 Cleric
1 Minstrel
1 Caster
2+ Tanks of wich 1 and only 1 must be defensive tank (best defence is an offence right)

I know that this setup is not always possible to get, but most of the time i think it is. And frankly if you cant get minstrel + cleric atleast, you should not try skirmish, but follow zerg instead.

A note on Assist :
if you type /assist <Name to assist> with no <> you will get the target of <Name to assist>. If you type /macro assist /assist <Name to assist> you will get a quickbarbutton that will give you target of <Name to assist> whenever you press it. There is some delay from when you press it, till it diplays correctly with healthbar, but you can use /face /stick and spells + styles on the target before he is diplayed with health, so dont wait for this.
If your not familiar with /assist go test it on some grey mobs with a friend, to see how it works.
Assist is a very powerfull tool in rvr, it will eleminate the enemys ability to both heal and use PBT properly. Both these tools are very powerfull, so if you can eleminate their use you are far on your way to victory.

Here follows some very basic ways of seeing the different classes, the goal is not to cover every possible way a class works, but to establish what the rest of the party will expect of you ALWAYS. Extra tactics beyond this is the bonus of you being a good player in a team, but you should always be able to deliver the following to the group.

I know this part can be very confusing to read, ideally it will be in web page format, so you click your class and get all relevant info, while skipping the other classes info. Much of it is only my view of this, and since i only have been in rvr with 2 classes i doubt all of it is true.

Post in 2 due to length

 

[Celt/Quib]

Continued...

Cleric (rejuv/enhance):
Your role in the party is that of buffer and healer, read these 2 texts
Also you must use BoF when needed.
BoF is a great RA, only problem is when to use it. Generally you need to use it before the damage is dealt to have any effect, so if someone is presently dead you where too late. A few rules about this one :
If a mage has 2 tanks on him use BoF at once (before they deal damage)
If the opposing teams tanks use assist chains use BoF at once, this is easily spotted as several tanks running close together after same target
If the opposing team is clearly superior in numbers use BoF at once
The trick is to make sure the enemies cannot deal more damage than you can heal, so if they deal heavy melee dmg to your team, BoF will help make you able to heal it all before someone dies.

Friar :
A friars role in battle is that as an offensive tank, a buffer and a combat resser. Read these 3 texts to work well in a group.
Remember to use your taunt shout to interrupt enemy casters in mid cast

Minstrel :
A minstrels role is in order of importance :
1. Use SoS when needed. SoS is a must-have for a grouping minstrel
2. Demezz team
3. Mezz opponents
4. Help melee down the enemy

When to use SoS?
If 1 or more casters have tanks on them use SoS at once
If the enemy roots use SoS at once
If the enemy suprise you and CCs many use SoS at once
If the enemy clearly outnumbers you use SoS at once
As with BoF you need to use this ability before anyone is dead, so if you have a dead member of party you should have used SoS.

Infiltrator :
Infiltrators role in a team is
1. Keep the tanks with poisonous weapons
2. Either take out key enemies using stealth
3. Or protect a caster using stealth + PA CD, this caster should be a nuker since this tank has to die (if you use dot he is immune to CC), this takes some practice to get right, since you need to land the CD before he starts interrupting your mage

Scout :
Your job is to stealth on encounters, move away from team to avoid ae CC and ae dmg, when the battle is going open fire on the support and casters. Scouts that pop out after battle is engaged, have a high probability of remaining undiscovered while shooting.
The range of the scout will make sure its very hard to run out of range, keeping the important enemies under fire.
Being abit away from battle allows scout a good overview of the battle, they should take out casters who seems to be left to cast. If no stray enemies need sniping, assist the main tank and shoot his target.
If possible use terrain to hide in
If needed use slam to save your casters (your protective tank is mezzed/dead/not present)


Theurgist (10s pbt, some nukespec):
If you are the best CC in team, you act as primary CC and secondary nuker.
If you are not, act as nuker and secondary CC
If you are higheste earth spec you act as buffer (EB haste)
Use single pets to interrupt enemy casters without CC on

Sorceror(mind/body) :
If you are only sorc you will be primary CC and secondary nuker
If you are not, one of the sorc will be primary CC, the others will be nuker and secondary CC
Remember your AE debuffs, they really do make a difference

Wizard(Fire) :
Your role is that of nuker and possibly EB buffer if your the highest earth spec in group


Cabalist(body spec) :
Your role is that of nuker
Use pet to keep casters of enemy team occupied
Use nearsight heavily on all support of enemys, nukers healers cc all suffer greatly under nearsight
If your primary CC opens with root use ae disease

Cabalist(matter) :
Use pet to keep casters of enemy team occupied
Use nearsight heavily on all support of enemys, nukers healers cc all suffer greatly under nearsight
If CC fails (heavy group purge, your cc is dead, make up more excuses) spam ae dot
Stack dots on single targets, in combination with nearsight you can safely break cc on low hp enemies with dots
Remember to use your debuffs, they help alot

Armsman (Slam spec, min 42 shield) :
Either defensive tank, or offensive tank

Armsman (No Slam spec) :
Offensive tank

Mercenary :
Offensive tank

Paladin (Slam spec, min 42 shield) :
Either defensive tank or offensive tank
Use chants to cover resist buff gaps (Heat, Body most important)
DONT override cleric and friar buffs, only chant in the gaps (the 10min buff will be gone if you override it)
Twist in combat? switch to nonresist in combat?
Could use pala help on how to use chants best
Remember to use taunt shout to interrupt casters in midcast

Paladin (No Slam spec) :
Offensive tank
Same chant rules as above
Remember to use taunt shout to interrupt casters in midcast

Buffer :
Your role is to keep the party as buffed as possible. Make sure you test what excactly your buff gives in stat increase, at what price. Sometimes the 2. best buff is much more cost effective (sometimes its even just as good as best one, for a much lower price)
Make sure you say your enhance spec when entering group if you are cleric, so the highest enhance spec does the spec buffs.
If you have resist buffs on 10 min. timer make sure to notify the driver when they start dropping, so you can get to recast.
Buffs matter ALOT, so dont just spread them out randomly, give the classes what they need. If your in doubt ask what people would prefer to be buffed with.
If you use single target timered buffs (Haste, EB) make sure to give yourself a buff so you know when they drop off

Healer :
Your role is to keep your team alive during the battle using heals.
Try to stand back at high range (heal range is 2000), out of the way of enemy nukers.
Make sure you use the instas when necessary, better to use once too many than once to few.
If your team has any combat ressers (friars and paladins) let them ress in mid combat, your power is needed for heals. If you have none of these you can ress mid battle, if you are sure it will not kill anyone due to missing heals (you cant do both, dont kill one to get another back up ress sick)
If there are 2 healers in group, make sure you arrange who resses in combat.

Offensive tank :
Your role is to handle the opponents support classes.
If you are the main offensive tank, you must also find the right targets to attack first.
If you are not the main tank, use only /assist on main tank to select enemies, never select with F8 or with mouse

Defensive tank :
Your role is to handle tanks that go for your teams casters only, stay back with casters, and only attack inc tanks. Use Slam for this.
Once a tank is slammed, you must watch if the caster you protect starts nuking, or CCs the tank. If he nukes, help him kill tank, if he CCs, stay off it. (you could arrange this before encounters, so you dont have to figure out if he nukes or ccs)
Use a small shield and a fast weapon, to make your attack speed as high as possible both with slam and hit. It wont effect stun time of slam, and will help you overcome pbt easier. If possible use snare on your weapon.
If you have FH (pala RA) use it to save your casters if needed.
If SoS is active switch to Offensive tank mode ASAP, your casters need no protection with SoS active.

Nuker :
Your role is to Nuke stuff to bits.
You can either /assist the main tank, or pick your own targets.
Only pick own targets if they are casters, or tanks with slamstun on / immune to CC
If a defensive tank is helping you, try to kill tanks that go for you, instead of CC them after slam, this should be possible before slamstun ends, with the protective tank helping you out.
If SoS is active your best defence is your legs, run from any inc tanks and stop once in a while to do /assist nukes with main tank assist.

Secondary nuker :
Your role is to use /assist on either Main Tank or a nuker
Dont nuke people with CC on, you have a primary task that you may have to switch back to any second, so only use assisted nukes.
If SoS is active run from inc tanks, and do assist nukes when you have some distance


Primary CC :
Your role is to keep the enemy under asmuch CC as purge and immunity timers allows, if you get done with this, switch to secondary nuker role.
How excactly to fill this role is rather complicated and class dependant, so i wont cover this here. This belongs in an advanced bible.
One general tip is to open with root if possible, so you dont trigger mez immunity timer and ruin your minstrels chance to mez the enemy tanks that purge.
If SoS is active and you have a chasing tank, make sure you run into a position that will allow you a good overview of battle, and the enemy a poor chance to spot you (flanks, or behind their support) While you run, look for people that need a good CC dose, and stop /face cast when you have room for it,

Secondary CC :
Your CC should be used only to :
1. Save your own but from tanks
2. Save a running Primary CC from following tanks
If SoS is active forget your secondary CC, and concentrate on your primary objective

Combat resser :
If you have a casualty disengage from combat if possible, and ress fast. With purge and MCL this can sometimes be equivalent to summoning a lvl 50 pet with great AI (sometimes not so great AI hehe)

 

[Apathy]

QUIBLET! I have so much lurve for you.

DoTs only interrupt on the first tick but stacking two could possibly kill an unbuffed caster with a crap healer in his group.

Just one thing...a proper Random Group would be one that consisted of whatever you find hanging around at ATK when you port. In my case, this would be -

1 lvl 50 sorcerer
1 lvl 41 scout
1 lvl 50 enchance cleric
1 lvl 48 enchance cleric
1 lvl 48 enchance cleric
1 lvl 44 enchance cleric
1 lvl 46 enchance cleric
1 lvl 49 enchance cleric

a.
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[Cowled]

Originally posted by Celt/Quib
Scout :
Your job is to stealth on encounters, move away from team to avoid ae CC and ae dmg, when the battle is going open fire on the support and casters. Scouts that pop out after battle is engaged, have a high probability of remaining undiscovered while shooting.
The range of the scout will make sure its very hard to run out of range, keeping the important enemies under fire.

Being abit away from battle allows scout a good overview of the battle, they should take out casters who seems to be left to cast. If no stray enemies need sniping, assist the main tank and shoot his target.

If possible use terrain to hide in

note i have never played with a scout in team, my only experience is playing vs hib rangers. This could all need serious change

First, It's a really good post you've made.. but..

My experience when moving away from my dear tanks, i get 5+ shadowblades on me, and i rarely interupts casters some how ... i miss 4 shots in a row ... but thanks for the post.

 

[Ckiller ofDust]

bump bumpi bumpbump

 

[old.Odysseus]

I will bump this with a few useful hints:

a) Buffer:
Throw a buff on yourself first, so you can see when they start to go down and be ahead of things. I give myself a Haste before buffing my party with EB and Haste.

b) Casters and Tanks:
Hillsides are your friends! If you have 2-3 tanks on you and theres a hillside nearby, try and run up and down it in straight lines, this will make tanks lose stick. Every 30 sec you can QC something nasty to stop them.

c) Theurg pets:
They act as DoT's once they arrive on target - DoT's that interrupt every tick. Hence, pets can be used as a 30 sec interrupt on a non-CC'ed enemy.

d) Driver:
Designate a driver. Everyone goes where he goes. No running off on solo-ego-I-am-He-Man-trips.

e) Stick:
Everyone should not be sticking to the designated driver. Instead, make sure your group is more spread out so a single CC wont affect everyone. Especially minstrels should stay in the rear to demezz. Sorcs are often useful in the front for initial CC.

EDIT:
I got webspace when project is done Quib.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Cowled


First, It's a really good post you've made.. but..

My experience when moving away from my dear tanks, i get 5+ shadowblades on me, and i rarely interupts casters some how ... i miss 4 shots in a row ... but thanks for the post.

think he's assuming group versus group, and out of the way of the shadowzerg (as it's been dubbed)
sounds like a good tactic to me.. no idea if any good in practice..

maybe two scouts coordinating fire? the miss 4 shots will probably be pbt

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Celt/Quib

Friar :
A friars role in battle is that as an offensive tank, a buffer and a combat resser.

They can also fill in as healer at the beginning of a fight too - I know a few friars (the ones who actually specced higher than 7 rejuv) that use their group heals before charging into the fray...

but it's often down to the individual character's spec whether they're better doing that or gunning for an enemy caster.

 

[belth]

Note on Matter cabbies:
Baseline lifetap drains too much mana, atleast for my n00bie cabby - 8 nukes with big variance and oop I suggest using nearsight on enemy casters instead

 

[Celt/Quib]

Keep the tips comming

I will probably do a seperate post on driving (or moving as a group, something like that), since driving is very complicated and cannot be dealt with without a long post.

Problem is to keep the strategies simple, so they can be used in any random group, most of the really neat stuff is very dependant on group setup.

 

[Apathy]

Here are my l33t RvR s0rcZ0r tipz0r, just for Quibeeeee.

(I didn't get R3.5 by being crap and just bumping into walls, you know! YEARS of farming, this took me.)

1) If the targets immediately in range of you are tanks, root instead of mezz. AoE debuff. Mezz.

2) If the nearest targets are casters, AoE debuff with con/str whilst mezzing. Send your pet onto one.

3) If you're not doing anything else and you see some skank with a small shield or an instrument start to cast, HIT IT WITH AMNESIA if you're not in range for something else.

The best thing a cabalist has is nearsight; it truly is gorgeous. Spam it!

/stick is a bad thing to use too much. Stay alert and in control when approaching keeps/milegates.

Keep moving around in battle if you are a caster. There's always a stealther looking for easy RPs even if it means his own death.

LEARN TO RECOGNISE THE ENEMY CLASSES. This can't be stressed enough. :/

Talk with your group beforehand. Sort out who will do what and what you will do if you meet the enemy. Who will root? Who will protect who? Who will yell orders? Who will make the tea afterwards?

a.
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[Cowled]

Friars offensive?

Vireb with masterpiece Shodquarter > All

Ask him for a duel , totally awesome to see him swing that stick

 

[Sibanac]

Cabalist(body spec) :
Your role is that of nuker
Use pet to keep casters of enemy team occupied

Cabalist(matter) :
How to fill in the matter cabas role in FGs ?
My personal oppinion is that AE CC >>> AE DoT in most cases, maybe try to dot enemy casters when tanks are out of dot area to allow CC on tanks
Will dot stop bards from using end song? if it does this is important for matter caba
Else act as nuker

Body spec : AoE disease, debufs, nuke
that order of importance you can always root some people aswell and use insta debufs to interupt their casters

Matter spec : nearsight casters and archers, this will eithert make them have to come closer to you to casts or leave the tanks unsuported, if they come closer use debufs to interupt.
Debuff any enemy you see
The AoE DoT : no cc in grp : chain cast it
it causes lots of confusion in enemy ranks, it will break formation interupt casters .... (if you have AoE disease cast it first this will ruin the healers day )
CC in grp : well dont AoE just stack dots and debufs on the pulled bad guys.


Remember a cabby is not a nuker, you are the guy that pisses everybody off.

oh and another tip to live longer in rvr :

Put your pet next to sameone you dont like they are always AoE magnets
And at keep defences/takes change your cloaks color, robes -> vest, to keep em confused, i noticed after landing a few good dots they start looking for you

 

[Apathy]

Debuffs don't interrupt.

a.
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[Sibanac]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
Debuffs don't interrupt.

a.
*

Well when i tested it it looked like it did.
On the cabby boards there is the same discusion going on tho, seems it change from patch to patch.

 

[Apathy]

On a version of Pendragon, they interrupted. This was fixed within the hour, apparently...

Trust me; they don't interrupt. If they did, they could be used to drop people out of skald/bard speed and stop people casting. I've tried both and it doesn't. This is with stat debuffs, not nearsight, though.

What "tests" did you do?

a.
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[Sibanac]

I tested it doing debufs on casters in rvr, i had effects all on, it seems to interupt them, ofcourse its pretty hard to tell in the heat of batle.

But now that i think of it, the one time i was sure it worked i had a crit on str debuff, maybe the poor caster beeing enc interupted him.


anyway thanks for clearing that up

 

[old.Elfslayer]

I have found that casting a nearsight on a fleeing bard/scald works wonders for slowing them down, dont know if it simply confuses the hell out of them or nocks out the speed...... but hey works most of the time, and they get trampled by persuing tanks

 

[Jiggs]

imo the ideal target for Friars is enemy support classes: Healer/Druid/Bard (forget the godam warden lol leave it mezzed!!!)

Friars should not be primary offensive tanks for 1 good reason:

once we die you lost all your buffs..

also for Friars number one rule when u are engaging a casting opponent is hit taunt shout BEFORE your first style lands, 9/10 times you will interupt the spell they were casting.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Sibanac


Well when i tested it it looked like it did.
On the cabby boards there is the same discusion going on tho, seems it change from patch to patch.

now that they're instant they're not meant to - there was a bug recently when they could... but that was fixed pretty quick.

Any casted debuff (resistance/disease/nearsight) will probably still interrupt....

 

[old.Odysseus]

I will follow Jigg's lead and post some theurg-specific advice:
(All of this is based on air-spec).

-You are NOT the primary CC, dont get yourself killed trying.

-Root is your friend, especially the singletarget. Use it to take down purgers or other non-mezzed ppl.

-AoE CC (root and mezz) are best used for emergencies, with current resists those 25 +/- seconds wont last long.

-Nuking is fun, apply it to those that go down the fastest. Very situational, but often the bard/healer/druid is a good place to start, nukers next. Sadly druids and healers have a ton of HP - hence take time to kill. I normally go for bard, then nuker.

-Nuking is fun!

-Nuking is fun, but dont waste it on tanks till all supporters are dead. You can take a caster in 2-3 blasts.

-PBT or Runspeed? In small groups i use group bt + speed, in groups with 4+ I use pbt unless there is no other speed available. PBT cuts down your available nuking power.

-Pets.... use them for interrupting non-cc'd casters and the like. They have 1875 range vs. 1500 on everything else u got. Use it. It is possible to solo tanks with petzerging.

-Make up more stuff yourself.

 

[Apathy]

This is a nice thread; people telling others how they play their OWN class instead of telling other people how to play THEIR class.



a.
*

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

Makes a change to see a positive thread for once.

Err...what do SoS and BoF stand for? I still don't know half the terms in this game yet. :/

 

[old.Odysseus]

http://camelotherald.com/realmabilities/
Check under minstrel and cleric respectively.

 

[oblivion_6]

The main reason you guys lose against hibs if numbers is equal

is that the majority of players are constantly in a zerg of 4-5fgs when this zerg usually overpowers a lower amount of hibbies

Due to players always being used to this they are unsure of the tactics used if the numbers are equal where as we hibs are the opposite

just my 2 cents

 

[old.Odysseus]

plz dont transform this into a albs-zerg-and-are-skillless or a who-zergs-most thread

Stay on topic with constructive advice or stay away. plz

 

[oblivion_6]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus
plz dont transform this into a albs-zerg-and-are-skillless or a who-zergs-most thread

Stay on topic with constructive advice or stay away. plz

The advice was constructive!

Im simply saying that if you get a char who always goes into rvr with 4-6 fgs then they wont be that experienced in 1 v 1 which is what can save ur butt

Its common sense that if you go huntin with 40 players loads then sudeenly theres only 8 of you youre bound to not be as experienced

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Sissyfoo
Makes a change to see a positive thread for once.

Err...what do SoS and BoF stand for? I still don't know half the terms in this game yet. :/

Since ody didn't actually say what they stood for - Speed of Sound and Bunker of Faith.

 

[Kagato.]

Hillsides are your friends! If you have 2-3 tanks on you and theres a hillside nearby, try and run up and down it in straight lines, this will make tanks lose stick. Every 30 sec you can QC something nasty to stop them.

Good tip, as a tank its bloody annoying chasing down a caster with /stick just for them to run up a hill out of sight or round trees knocking you off whilst your trying to hit the hindering styles.

From an offensive tanks point of view everything comes down to wise target selection. Assuming the CC has done their job and you have the enemy mostly mezzed, wait a second to see who purges/resists first and attack them, specially a caster type, if any enemy tank and you have a defensive ready with the slam protecting the caster, leave it to them and deal with the enemy casters.

I believe Wildfire posted another useful thread dealing with target selection and the enemy classes to deal with first so theres no point repeating it here, but even if your not clued up on the enemy types, as a rule of thumb go for the midgets first I always say, if its a kobbie, luri or dwarf theres a very good chance its a dangerous class, and even if its not you can probably kill it fast. Then go for the elves/norse with sticks and tidy up any tanks that are still standing.

 

[belth]

Couple other "easy class identifiers" for the ones who haven't paid that much attention:

Middies:
If it has a small shield and a hammer, it's either:
a) Kobold: warrior/thane or shaman
b) Dwarf: warrior/thane or healer
c) Troll: warrior/thane or shaman
d) Human: warrior/thane or healer
In the case of the first mentioned, they tend to hang in the front lines, in which case you can leave them mezzed etc... In the case of the latter and having a chance of being a healer, it's advisable to break the possible mezz with a melee stun or have enough firepower to gank it in 1 second, because otherwise they can turn the tide of the battle with their instant CC.

If it has a stick, kill it, disregarding race.
If it has 2 weapons on its back, put a pet on it, it can't stealth then. Not reliably anyway. Might have 1-7 others like it within close distance.
If it has 2 weapons on lap and isn't a kobold, it might turn in to a giant gerbil when cornered, which screams loud for mezzing. The gerbil also sports an invisible sign that says "I can hit your for over 1000 in melee, please mezz me!".

Hibbies:
If it has a stick, kill it - it'll nuke you BAD. Propably with PBAoE for 90% of your hits.
If it has an instrument, kill it. Otherwise it'll insta-mez you, rez his buddies and does other hostile actions like healing.
If there's a wolf or cat following it, kill it. It buffs, rez's, heals and other stuff that you don't want happening.
If it's an elf or a lurikeen with 2 weapons on its lap, put a pet on it, it hates that. Also has the possibility of "magically" summoning 1-7 of its relatives.

Oh well, turned out to be a "quick introduction to hib/mid classes for newbies"... Most of you propably knew that crap already

Disclaimer: If there's any mistakes, it's not my fault. Correct at your own leisure.