Alarmclock tradition retained from DAoC ^^

[Fana]

On Al'akir the Alliance raided UC and went for Lady Sylvanas at 2.30 am this morning. Luckily we had a raid on Azuregos at the time and most people went directly from that to UC when we heard alliance was on Sylvanas and thus wiped them.

Just thinking, will the proud tradition of alarmclock raids carry on in WoW :/ Can we expect our faction leaders to be slain at shit-am in the morning now when people get rewards for doing it?

 

[Tharion]

Dunno mate, I wasn't there.
But probably yes, because the majority playing WoW are little kids.

Quite interesting that they managed to raid UC, the ppl I've met on raids can't organize their self out of a box. Horde on the other hand seem abit better organized. But maybe that's not how it is

What do I know...

 

[Whisperess]

What's the negative effects for you to have your leaders killed? (in-game; wise guys)

 

[Tharion]

What's the negative effects for you to have your leaders killed? (in-game; wise guys)

Bleh, I'm to tired, I don't get it

 

[Turamber]

Whisperess is thinking exactly what I am thinking ... The enemy killing your 'leader' has no bearing on your game at all. It doesn't make you weaker, or make xp'ing more difficult. Zero effect.

 

[Archeon]

Good for them I guess, though i'm not sure it qualifies as 'alarm-clock' seeing as it's about as important as the white seal which gave birth to calfs.

 

[Danya]

OH NOES!
Wait a second, everyone here is right! It makes NO difference AT ALL if Lady Sylvanas gets killed or not. So why the big deal about it?

 

[Draylor]

So why the big deal about it?

Any excuse is good enough for a whine thread.

Seems to be on FH anyway

 

[Danya]

True, would be nice if the wow board was at least a bit less whiny than the daoc boards though. Oh well.

 

[k9awya]

oh wait

so they wanted to kill a "lvl 500" npc at 2:30am, they are SO BAD...

even though YOU WERE KILLING ONE AT THE SAME TIME?

wtf? weirdo.

 

[Tharion]

Any excuse is good enough for a whine thread.

Seems to be on FH anyway

/wave

/hug

 

[[TB] Benedictine]

Isn't it ++ honour points to kill Faction Leaders?

 

[Fana]

Any excuse is good enough for a whine thread.

Seems to be on FH anyway

Call it what you want, whine or otherwise, but i find it more sad that out of 10 replies only 2 were showed any sign of a willingness to discuss the subject matter, rest were flames That, if anything, is more of a trademark for FH than "whines" imo (in fact, whine is probably the most overused word on these boards).

As for 'why does it matter' - well:
1) It gives the other faction more contribution points to share at the weekly assignment of pvp ranks, meaning that faction will see its members attain the higher ranks faster, meaning that they have a (slight, but still) advantage over the faction that doesnt engage in very late / very early pvp raids.
2) Its a bit dishonorable, imo, since the faction beeing raided has less of a chanse defending and thus gaining honor, instead the few people that get there (i.e. that are still awake) to defend will get farmed by a large prepared raid.
3) Its a bit unfair towards those that cant take part in defence (and in the raid also for that matter).

Well those are some reasons why its preferable to avoid "alarmclock" raids. My world certainly doesnt end because people want to do these kind of raids, in fact i might very well participate in them myself - my post was simply to discuss and hear peoples oppinions on the matter in WoW since we have had huge debates on this in DAoC.

 

[Danya]

You could argue that you killing Azuregos is also unfair since you're getting the loot from it and stopping them getting loot for a week. Thus boosting your side's power level with better items. I think if you're going to moan about alarm clock faction leader raids, you should refrain from alarm clock Azuregos raids - after all it's only fair to allow the alliance to come kill you while you're on the mob.

 

[Fana]

You could argue that you killing Azuregos is also unfair since you're getting the loot from it and stopping them getting loot for a week. Thus boosting your side's power level with better items. I think if you're going to moan about alarm clock faction leader raids, you should refrain from alarm clock Azuregos raids - after all it's only fair to allow the alliance to come kill you while you're on the mob.

Point taken They did try tho ^^

To be honest, as i said, it doesnt bother me, and i dont want to come across as "moaning" about it. I just wanted to hear what peeople think about it, and you do raise a valid point with the Azuregos argument. Also, since pvp ranks and indeed equipment as a whole in WoW isnt *that* important maybe it doesnt matter at all when people raid then. In DAoC an alarmclock relic raid is percieved as lame in part because of the large pvp bonuses that having relics gave, while there isnt really any such comparable bonuses to doing alarmclock stuff in WoW.

 

[Danya]

ATM, decent PvE gear makes a lot more difference than rankings, that will change as people actually achieve higher ranks, but I'm not sure the best PvP gear is actually better than the best PvE gear.

 

[Jaapi]

On Al'akir the Alliance raided UC and went for Lady Sylvanas at 2.30 am this morning. Luckily we had a raid on Azuregos at the time and most people went directly from that to UC when we heard alliance was on Sylvanas and thus wiped them.

Just thinking, will the proud tradition of alarmclock raids carry on in WoW :/ Can we expect our faction leaders to be slain at shit-am in the morning now when people get rewards for doing it?

So what you're saying is that you alarmclock raided Azuregos too?

 

[Fana]

So what you're saying is that you alarmclock raided Azuregos too?

Please pay more attention, and read the entire thread before posting

 

[Jaapi]

Please pay more attention, and read the entire thread before posting

I did, can't understand what the raids had to do with possible alarmclock raids in the future. That's like saying "Today i ate some apples, will it rain tomorrow?".

 

[Fana]

I did, can't understand what the raids had to do with possible alarmclock raids in the future. That's like saying "Today i ate some apples, will it rain tomorrow?".

Hmm? Cant make sense of what your saying, but i repeat: I wanted a discussion of alarmclock raids and their repercussions in WoW. Points have been made, counterpoints stated etc. Its what normaly happens in a discussion.

 

[k9awya]

i think the point is stop whining fana, if you were asleep at the time, you have 1% of a reason to whine

you were killing a boss mob, so were they

"omg someone ganked me while i was ganking, daoc ganking again?!?!"

 

[Fana]

i think the point is stop whining fana, if you were asleep at the time, you have 1% of a reason to whine

you were killing a boss mob, so were they

"omg someone ganked me while i was ganking, daoc ganking again?!?!"

Guess its pointless to keep pointing out i wasnt whining (unless the FH universe has its own definitions of whining) so ill just drop it. Maybe i should have made the obligatory "Discuss " comment at the end so that people realized what was expected of them :/

 

[Jaapi]

Hmm? Cant make sense of what your saying, but i repeat: I wanted a discussion of alarmclock raids and their repercussions in WoW. Points have been made, counterpoints stated etc. Its what normaly happens in a discussion.

Ok, will go through this point by point so you can keep up.
First you say

On Al'akir the Alliance raided UC and went for Lady Sylvanas at 2.30 am this morning. Luckily we had a raid on Azuregos at the time and most people went directly from that to UC when we heard alliance was on Sylvanas and thus wiped them.

What i fail to realize is how that is connected to

Just thinking, will the proud tradition of alarmclock raids carry on in WoW :/ Can we expect our faction leaders to be slain at shit-am in the morning now when people get rewards for doing it?

The raids both sides did had nothing to do with alarmclock raids so why did you even mention them? It makes absolutely no sense. If you wanted to talk about possibilities of an alarmclock raids in WoW, why not just say so without off-topic start to it?

 

[Kalid]

1) It gives the other faction more contribution points to share at the weekly assignment of pvp ranks, meaning that faction will see its members attain the higher ranks faster, meaning that they have a (slight, but still) advantage over the faction that doesnt engage in very late / very early pvp raids.

Hmmmm always thought the ranks were based on CPs you earned vs the entire factions CPs. Not that when you reached a certain amount of CPs you'd recieve a rank. So in this raid if they'd killed the NPC those in the raid would get more CPs then people not in the raid, ie you'd get an advatnage over your fellow faction members. I might be in error though...

 

[Fana]

Hmmmm always thought the ranks were based on CPs you earned vs the entire factions CPs. Not that when you reached a certain amount of CPs you'd recieve a rank. So in this raid if they'd killed the NPC those in the raid would get more CPs then people not in the raid, ie you'd get an advatnage over your fellow faction members. I might be in error though...

Its a combination of % of total honor for all faction and a set minimum number for certain ranks - f.ex. noone has gotten higher than rank 5 this first week despite the fact that there are 14 ranks that people will eventually be divided in. So you both have to have a minimum number of points - this is why its good for your faction to kill the other factions bosses since it gives your side a large boost in honorpoints to be divided at end of week, making it easier for those that have pvp'ed alot to attain a higher rank than otherwise that week.
As i said, its nothing huge, but there is nevertheless a slight advantage to it

 

[Fana]

The raids both sides did had nothing to do with alarmclock raids so why did you even mention them? It makes absolutely no sense. If you wanted to talk about possibilities of an alarmclock raids in WoW, why not just say so without off-topic start to it?

"Alarmclock" is a term used that has come to be used for very late raids, thus why i used it to describe raids that took place at 2.30 (which for most people is very late, especially on a weekday). As for our Azuregos raid, ive already conceded earlier in the thread that it can be seen in the same way as raiding a faction boss.

I swear, it seems we are discussing semantics more than anything else on FH lately :/

 

[Kalid]

Its a combination of % of total honor for all faction and a set minimum number for certain ranks - f.ex. noone has gotten higher than rank 5 this first week despite the fact that there are 14 ranks that people will eventually be divided in.

Well rank 5 is the limit this week, blizzard has claimed it will take some time till you actually can get to rank 14, even if you are within the 0.1% top CP holders each week.

So you both have to have a minimum number of points - this is why its good for your faction to kill the other factions bosses since it gives your side a large boost in honorpoints to be divided at end of week, making it easier for those that have pvp'ed alot to attain a higher rank than otherwise that week.

Reading the forums you need to be in the raid (or at least tag the npc solo) to get any CPs, being in just a faction wouldn't give CPs. You need however 25 HKs to be able to "unlock" the first rank. If you got any info that you need a certain amounts of CP/HK to unlock other ranks, please share a link to it.

 

[Fana]

Reading the forums you need to be in the raid (or at least tag the npc solo) to get any CPs, being in just a faction wouldn't give CPs. You need however 25 HKs to be able to "unlock" the first rank. If you got any info that you need a certain amounts of CP/HK to unlock other ranks, please share a link to it.

Might be as you say, that they have a hardcap for the first weeks. But:

Reading the forums you need to be in the raid (or at least tag the npc solo) to get any CPs, being in just a faction wouldn't give CPs. You need however 25 HKs to be able to "unlock" the first rank

I am however fairly certain that killing enemy faction leaders is supposed to grant your entire faction more honor points to be divided at the end of the week.

From http://www.wow-europe.com/en/pvp/pvp-article-part2.html
We also add a bonus to your score for participation in strategic objectives, such as conquering a Battleground or killing an enemy NPC leader, such as Thrall or King Bronzebeard. The exact number of strategic leaders has yet to be determined, but at the least, the four racial leaders for the Horde and Alliance will count as strategic objectives. For those out to kill the human leader, keep in mind that neither King Anduin nor Jaina actually qualifies as a strategic objective; it's the king's protector, Highlord Bolvar Fordragon, who is the true leader you must kill in order to gain bonus honor points for your faction.

and from http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-pvp-en&t=24040 which is linked to by Bliz from the front page.
At the end of the week (I'm guessing during maintenance) your percentage of CPs against your entire faction will be used to calculate how many honour points you get, which in turn will be used to calculate your rank. The total honour points pool has a fixed minimum which can be increased by killing faction leaders and doing various battlegrounds stuff



EDIT: CP and Honorpoints arent the same btw - honorpoints is based on CP, and is what determines your rank at the end of the week.

 

[Kalid]

Might be as you say, that they have a hardcap for the first weeks. But:



I am however fairly certain that killing enemy faction leaders is supposed to grant your entire faction more honor points to be divided at the end of the week.

From http://www.wow-europe.com/en/pvp/pvp-article-part2.html
We also add a bonus to your score for participation in strategic objectives, such as conquering a Battleground or killing an enemy NPC leader, such as Thrall or King Bronzebeard. The exact number of strategic leaders has yet to be determined, but at the least, the four racial leaders for the Horde and Alliance will count as strategic objectives. For those out to kill the human leader, keep in mind that neither King Anduin nor Jaina actually qualifies as a strategic objective; it's the king's protector, Highlord Bolvar Fordragon, who is the true leader you must kill in order to gain bonus honor points for your faction.

and from http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-pvp-en&t=24040 which is linked to by Bliz from the front page.
At the end of the week (I'm guessing during maintenance) your percentage of CPs against your entire faction will be used to calculate how many honour points you get, which in turn will be used to calculate your rank. The total honour points pool has a fixed minimum which can be increased by killing faction leaders and doing various battlegrounds stuff



EDIT: CP and Honorpoints arent the same btw - honorpoints is based on CP, and is what determines your rank at the end of the week.

https://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-pvp-en&t=15173&p=1&tmp=1#post15173

If a raid group takes out say the King does the entire raid group get honor points and does the honor points received scale at all between people in the raid group?
Yes, the entire raid group that tapped the mob will share the honor points. The honor points will be distributed in the same way that experience points are distributed. It should be noted, however, that strategic targets are there to promote conflict and role-play between the Alliance and Horde, so players will find that killing enemy leaders is not a disproportionately large source of honor.

That would still mean if you participate in a raid killing a leader you'd only gain advantage vs your own fella faction members.

from the link u gave:

My server has 5:1 alliance:horde. I'm horde. ergo I'm screwed.
Well, yes and no. You're only competing against
other horde, so you're not completely screwed. You are going to find it extremely hard to defend against multiple raids at the same time, though. So I recommend focussing your defence in one town at a time. No resistance from enemy players means no HKs for the alliance.

My interpretation of this would be there would be 5 times more rank 14 for the alliance than the horde due to a 5:1 ratio. If killing leaders would allow a larger ratio than 5:1 rank 14 I'd bet the leaders would be farmed constantly.


My belive there are just a certain numbers of each ranks is based from 1 statement: http://www.wow-europe.com/en/pvp/pvp-article-part2.html

The highest rank of 14, for example, will only be occupied by the top 0.1 percent of players (one in every one-thousand characters).

Thus no matter how many HP each faction get there still only will be 0.1% rank 14, x.x% rank 13 and so on...

 

[Ctuchik]

that brings up a intresting question tho.. what if lets say alliance on server xxx have 300 rank 14 players. and 20 more (technically) gets justified to get that rank. will they acually GET it or will blizzard say, "no alliance have 300 rank 14 players already. lets not promote theese 20 wich would have gotten it otherwise" is it BLIZZARD that decides whos gonna get promoted or what?

(semi-wierd question now when i read it but im curious)