AF buff broken? Or.....

[old.Atrox]

Casting classes and 1.52
Many players, playing casting classes, complained about having less powerful AF buffing spells since the patch 1.52. We have investigated the issue and done some tests. The results showed that both the AF buffing spells & the Absorption buffing spells were working. The tests showed that the use of the spells increased the miss rate (around 5%) and decreased the damage (around 10-15%). In order to be sure that they are working as intended, we have sent our results to Mythic and will see if there are any problems with these spells

Thats quoted from GOA
Guess it aint a bug after all....
surely we are supposed to be hit for the same amount of dmg as without the buffs....

gg GOA













uke:

[Edit:] how the heck did this go past the test ?!?!

 

[old.Iunliten]

well we need to encourage all casters that have noticed the bug and make the complain to rightnow or we will never have our AF fixed

 

[old.Noita]

I did some tests of my own over the course of about 2 hours and have sent the results to GOA...to sum up... DMG taken from green and blue con mobs was the same (+/- 2% on a sample of 20 green and 10 blue) on average regardless of whether I was buffed or not. In my mind I have absoultely no doubt that there is an issue here which warrants further investigation by the team at GOA and an explanation. Especially in the light of the fact that there was an identical issue in the US which was fixed by Mythic shortly after it was identified.

Also bear in mind that it is NOT in GOA's intersets to publicly admit there is a bug in the system of this seriousness which affects a huge cadre of players from all realms and on all servers. The reason why is the bug abuse clause in the CoC. To admit there is a bug is also to admit that it can be abused and anyone killing a bugged mage (ie all mages) COULD be accused of abusing a known bug.

I am not holding my breath waiting for a quick fix here, as I see it this may not be acknowledged by GOA at all. If it is then they will either have to repatch the entire European server network with the fixed patch or install the fix. I am not sure what the translation issues are around this and whether the "fix" would have to be translated. What I am sure of though is that there is a problem and it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

What I would say to GOA is... the majority of us are experienced players and we know our characters. We know what they could and could not do pre and post patch. We may not always be right, but we aren't always wrong either. Listen to us, we know there is a problem here, please fix it.

Post 50 this game is all about RvR, lets face it there is precious little else to do, because of this issue RVR for many caster classes is now a non viable option.

 

[Danya]

Not just RvR, mobs are seriously beating the crap out of casters too. Playing a caster is almost impossible because if you get hit you're dead in a couple of hits.

 

[old.Charonel]

got that right, was soloing in df the day the patch went live, on some necromancers and one reaches me, i think ok, got about five hits till i'm in trouble (been hunting them long enough to know how hard they hit) so i'll just quickcast a stun then nuke it senseless halfway through quickcast i'm dead, and quite shocked!

takes me a second to work out what the hell happend, think shields? ok maybe not there, nope, they were, then i realise that the numbers before me are ludicrous, the yellow con necromancer was whacking me in meelee for over half my health!

a druid and mentalist nearby were also pretty amazed, we'd been saving each other from bad pulls often and they were absolutely stunned at how fast i dropped, as was i, nothing they could do to help, just didnt have time to react

same thing has happened many times since i may add, would like this fixed please.

 

[kemor]

I did some tests of my own over the course of about 2 hours and have sent the results to GOA...to sum up... DMG taken from green and blue con mobs was the same (+/- 2% on a sample of 20 green and 10 blue) on average regardless of whether I was buffed or not. In my mind I have absoultely no doubt that there is an issue here which warrants further investigation by the team at GOA and an explanation. Especially in the light of the fact that there was an identical issue in the US which was fixed by Mythic shortly after it was identified.

It takes some time to:
1) Find a bug and get some reports about it.
2) Check into the bug by doing tests to see if it's just a "change" from 1.50 to 1.52 or a real bug. This was our main concern. So many things changed since 1.50.
3) Find where this "bug" could come from and see how it fix it.
4) Fix it.

Also bear in mind that it is NOT in GOA's intersets to publicly admit there is a bug in the system of this seriousness which affects a huge cadre of players from all realms and on all servers. The reason why is the bug abuse clause in the CoC. To admit there is a bug is also to admit that it can be abused and anyone killing a bugged mage (ie all mages) COULD be accused of abusing a known bug.

Believe me, it's most of the time in our interests to learn & talk about a bug. For this issue, as soon as we saw the posts and reports about it by players, we performed a lot of tests, contacted Mythic and informed the community (check the news). All this is not Insta-cast...

I am not holding my breath waiting for a quick fix here, as I see it this may not be acknowledged by GOA at all. If it is then they will either have to repatch the entire European server network with the fixed patch or install the fix. I am not sure what the translation issues are around this and whether the "fix" would have to be translated. What I am sure of though is that there is a problem and it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

Will be fixed as soon as possible. As said; Mythic already knows about it and it is a VERY important issue for us.

What I would say to GOA is... the majority of us are experienced players and we know our characters. We know what they could and could not do pre and post patch. We may not always be right, but we aren't always wrong either. Listen to us, we know there is a problem here, please fix it.

We also have experienced players here at GOA and VERY experienced players in the E&E teams but this, weirdly, went through 3+ weeks of testing on GORRE unnoticed (not unnoticed by GOA and E&E only, but also by the whole tester base. We received NO report at all about this issue before the patch day.). As soon as we heard about it, we listened, we acknowledged about a "possible" problem and are working on it since last Thursday.

Kemor, signing off...

 

[mele-nko]

Now that i think of it, i do remember getting hit for 750 and 690 damage by Wuren and Aaragorn, just didn't think much of it. Must have been 2 lucky crits or so...

Problem is that there was not much to do for casters on Gorre, dueling versus melee classes is almost impossible thus very few ppl did, and noticed a difference. And Dueling verus a mage ...welll that 1 or 2 lucky bolts ain't gonna tell u anything either


Anyways, nice to hear it will be fix ASAP otherwise i'll have to change my name to Kazil Freefrag )

 

[erl]

All this is not Insta-cast...

I'll try that one next time my teacher complains I'm late with something

 

[old.Atrox]

Did some quick testing this morning, being bored and all...
used a green con Avernal quasit.

--------
Unbuffed
--------
# attacks: 56
# hits: 18 (32%)
# misses: 38 (68%)
Average damage: 82,7
--------
Buffed ( AF & Abs )
--------
# attacks: 64
# hits: 20 (31%)
# misses: 44 (69%)
Average damage: 66,4
--------
Abs
--------
# attacks: 47
# hits: 19 (40%)
# misses: 28 (60%)
Average damage: 75,1
--------
AF
--------
# attacks: 45
# hits: 23 (51%)
# misses: 22 (49%)
Average damage: 78
--------

 

[old.Noita]

Thanks for your reply Kemor

I think that most of us realsie that if this is found to be a "bug" then it raises some major issues around the continued viability of playing an entire class of character until its fixed. Im no technician myself so am unaware of the possible ways of fixing this or the time required to do so. Hence my comments about not holding my breath while waiting....

I think one of the reasons why "the community" didnt pick up on this in GORRE testing was the possibilty that most people who would have tested on GORRE would have been more interested in testing their respeccs and getting used to the new interface, hypothesis I know but a reasonable one I think. I myself was slow in realising that there was a problem and it was a combination of things both PvE and RvR over a couple of days which prompted me to ask questions.

This said, is there anything that we can do now to help out? Maybe run some more tests of our own and send you the data or the logs perhaps? As its in our interests too, to get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible Im sure many of us would help in whatever way we can, indeed IF we can.

Let us know...and keep us posted

Thanks again

 

[VidX]

Bah!

Those Excalibur people are obviously useless if they couldn't spot something this big, use the Prydwen database for the next patch!

 

[pcentella]

I couldn't test Gorre at all (because Excalibur database was just used a few days, and not on weekend so i couldn't log), but when i logged onto the new patch, I realised I was geing killed by 3 hits (being a 41th season sorcerer), fully buffed, by the pygmys, but I thought they just made the pygmys hit harder

So, the conclusion for the new time (to all players) is: please, test Gorre as much as you can! (it is called the TEST server for something )

 

[GReaper]

Originally posted by kemor
We also have experienced players here at GOA and VERY experienced players in the E&E teams but this, weirdly, went through 3+ weeks of testing on GORRE unnoticed (not unnoticed by GOA and E&E only, but also by the whole tester base. We received NO report at all about this issue before the patch day.). As soon as we heard about it, we listened, we acknowledged about a "possible" problem and are working on it since last Thursday.

Seems a bit odd that such a bug which affects all casters hasn't been noticed by all the people on Gorre. The French players on Broceliande and the German players on Avalon had plenty of time to test this. Excalibur players got about 2 days to test for anything, whilst anyone not with a high level character on these servers didn't get much of a chance to test for bugs.

Perhaps the testing procedure needs to be looked at. Too many players far too interested in checking out to see if their respec gave them a uber character, instead of testing out some of the changes between the patches, also looking out for some of the problems Pendragon had.

Pendragon seems to have a decent testing looking at the various issues. All Gorre seems to have is patch day testers to check to see if the latest addition is any good. Take a look at the previous patches, with 1.48 people were just looking at the battlegrounds, 1.49 and everyone checked out DF, 1.50 was testing just for RA's, with 1.52 people were more bothered checking out their respec. A hoard of players were testing the one thing instead of various people checking out all the other changes.

Gorre needs various people who are specialised in their particular field to confirm theres no problems with their class/tradeskill or anything else. There should've been a tailor checking all the parts in 1.50, however a bug managed to get through with the AF102 player crafted Friar robes being unenchantable. With someone checking all these parts, this could've been avoided.

Until GOA consider the Gorre testing procedure and get various people checking for bugs, these bugs will still slip through. Pendragon has team leaders for feedback and bug reports, I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult for Gorre to have team leaders just for the purpose of bug testing?

<end of rant >

 

[Flimgoblin]

Problem with that, GReaper, is that Pendragon is a real server - it has people on it that have levelled themselves to 50 through buggy patches half-fixed features etc.

Gorre (by its nature) has to be a temporary server only running part-time, so this sort of thing isn't possible.

If you're out getting xp for your character you will notice problems with AF etc.

If you're only a tourist on to test a respec you won't.

 

[old.willowywicca]

uhm correct me if I'm wrong.. but doesn't atrox's test seem to indicate that the buffs are working? (even tho I'm sure they're not) would explain why goa didn't see any problems I guess..

I dunno how much af buff should be lowering dmg by.. but seems abs reduces by 10% and af by some more too.. <shrug>

 

[old.Atrox]

accually the dmg are not affected by the AF/abs, a longer test duration would show this, that test are to short and affected to much by the random generator etc

 

[Danya]

Malevolencia, before patch having the AF buff was giving reductions of closer to 50% not the 10% Atrox was seeing. It's definitely bugged.

 

[old.Noita]

Or the scary thing...it was bugged before and now its fixed

Just kidding by the way... I really hope that's not the case

Mal: My tests showed that in some cases the AF buff "seemed" to be doing its job...but... averaged out over several hours and many mobs reduced the chance for anomalies and other random factors. Also I checked it out with a Runemaster alt (level 26) again on green con mobs in Nisses Lair. One green con (low green at that) killed the alt in 3 hits whilst "buffed".

I hope to run a longer test on green/blue cons with Noita over the next few days, perhaps 50 of each, half buffed half unbuffed and I'll collate the data and post it here. Bit busy with my Masters Thesis at the moment but I'll try and squeeze it in.

 

[PJS]

Oh, that explains it. Small group in cursed forest.

purple mob hits you for 458 damage
purple mob hits you for 458 damage
You have died!

1.5 shotted, thats never happened before, but because I had never been there I just thought they are supposed hit casters really hard. Now I know different, before patch no mob ever killed me in under 3 hits.

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by kemor

this, weirdly, went through 3+ weeks of testing on GORRE unnoticed (not unnoticed by GOA and E&E only, but also by the whole tester base. We received NO report at all about this issue before the patch day.). As soon as we heard about it, we listened, we acknowledged about a "possible" problem and are working on it since last Thursday.

Kemor, signing off...

No-one really goes on gorre (cept now its PVP), you can go on, test new spells on some green/grey cons that are lying about, log off and go back to normal server. Theres no exp groups, no rvr, not a lot to do there really. And also a lot of us dont even have our main characters on the server ever.

If it was a known bug in one of the test versions on the US servers, you should be looking out for these. Otherwise just give us the patch straight from the US servers and stop patching being delayed for all the "testing". <grumbles>

 

[old.willowywicca]

Originally posted by Danyan
Malevolencia, before patch having the AF buff was giving reductions of closer to 50% not the 10% Atrox was seeing. It's definitely bugged.

From official website :

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Casting classes and 1.52

Many players, playing casting classes, complained about having less powerful AF buffing spells since the patch 1.52. We have investigated the issue and done some tests. The results showed that both the AF buffing spells & the Absorption buffing spells were working. The tests showed that the use of the spells increased the miss rate (around 5%) and decreased the damage (around 10-15%). In order to be sure that they are working as intended, we have sent our results to Mythic and will see if there are any problems with these spells.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

well from the goa post, they only expect the buffs to give a 10-15% reduction in damage.. they find that to be normal behavioour, so maybe as noita said earlier.. the old buffs were bugged and these ones are the fix! probably just goa being silly tho, and they are meant to be reducing dmg more than 15%...

 

[-Wedge-]

Well, cant say much on how the other people on Gorre tested it, but when I was on there (about 1-2 days before the patch)... Emain was one big dual... Not a place where I test bolts...

When I think back, I did notice a blue hitting me for 80% ish HP (lurikeen NS), without PA in about 1 or 2 moves...

I've been 1-shotted by bolts a lot the past few days... Top was even 1000ish damage... I've never been hit for 1000 damage... And tanks do more damage too (most above 500)...

I was proud because I couldnt be 1-shotted (unless lucky), since most bolts did about 780ish damage and I have 830 unbuffed...

Oohwell... Now I'll just have to return the favour to the mids/hibs, now that I have MoM, I cap at 1024

 

[Freia]

Originally posted by kemor
We also have experienced players here at GOA and VERY experienced players in the E&E teams but this, weirdly, went through 3+ weeks of testing on GORRE unnoticed (not unnoticed by GOA and E&E only, but also by the whole tester base. We received NO report at all about this issue before the patch day.).

Are you sure they patched live servers with the same version they tested with? ;p

Anyways....
Somehow I get the feeling that the internal testing does not include the gamestyle of many lvl 50 players. Namely, do lots and lots of rvr fighting all the time.

I read something on vnboards a while back which kinda shocked me, Sanya said that she had indeed played alot because she had lots of characters in the 3 different realms ranging from lvl 10 to 40..... WHAT?! Not even 45!
In other words she does not have the same perspective on the game as a big deal of the userbase, those ppl that have 1 or more lvl 50 characters and spend all their time rvring.

Imho, pve does NOT need any improvement, im guessing thats where most of the testing is done. The game is varying and fun the first 40 levels, I dont think I ever see any lvl 40- players complaining about how their class suck or that some other class needs nerfing. Reason being that it's fine below 40 and you dont notice these things. When 40- goes rvring they expect to get killed fast anyways.

Maybe GOA and mythic should put more energy into testing and playing around with different lvl 50 templates in actual rvr. Maybe they do and this feeling I have is wrong, I am sorry if that is the case.

Anyways I think im speaking for most of us when I say that us lvl 50 need more care and variation and balancing and that the lower levels can be concidered ok for now.

<shrug> that was just some reflections and it may be slightly offtopic so please forgive me.

Oh and I would apreciate an official reply to this.
Would be cool to get a little insight into how testing is performed.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Freia
I read something on vnboards a while back which kinda shocked me, Sanya said that she had indeed played alot because she had lots of characters in the 3 different realms ranging from lvl 10 to 40..... WHAT?! Not even 45!
In other words she does not have the same perspective on the game as a big deal of the userbase, those ppl that have 1 or more lvl 50 characters and spend all their time rvring.

Yes one reason for not changing minstrels was that Sanya's minstrel was fine and that anyone saying the class was nerfed was mistaken etc. Of course her minstrel is like level 35 not 50 and therefore doesn't see the impact of the RvR changes. From a PvE perspective minstrel has remained unchanged for a while, it's just the rvr changes that hurt it.

 

[old.chesnor]

lol @ Danyan and Freia. Do you really think Sanya is Mythics technical authority on daoc? Do you really think Sanya determines exactly which class needs nerfing/fixing?

Last time I checked Sanya was Mythics PR. She just happens to play the game, and no doubt provides feedback just like any other user, and often gives misinformed/misguided opinion (just like every other user). But I doubt very much that she has any influence over any technical changes made to the game, please.....

And Freia. To properly test any patch, you need characters of ALL levels, ALL classes doing ALL the kind of things people do in the game. For your information, the majority of people logged on the EU servers at any one time are not level 50, and are not RvRing.....Opening Gorre to the userbase as a means to test basically means you should get the spread of classes/levels to do an effective test. Its just a shame that people don't use Gorre for its intended purpose, but just to test new specs/new dungeon/new content, rather than to report to GOA the effects the patch has actually made to their char.

Whoever said it earlier was right, GOA needs something like Mythics class TLs whose job it is to test their chars on new patches properly.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
lol @ Danyan and Freia. Do you really think Sanya is Mythics technical authority on daoc? Do you really think Sanya determines exactly which class needs nerfing/fixing?

I don't think Sanya has a clue about the technicalities; which is why it's quite worrying that she seems to get listened to more than the class TLs about what needs changing in the game.

The problem with picking this bug up on Gorre is that to spot it you either need real RvR or real XPing. People don't for whatever reason do real RvR on gorre and as for XPing, there's simply no point forming an xp group when you're not going to keep any xp.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Danyan

The problem with picking this bug up on Gorre is that to spot it you either need real RvR or real XPing. People don't for whatever reason do real RvR on gorre and as for XPing, there's simply no point forming an xp group when you're not going to keep any xp.

Unless you're testing, what with Gorre being the test server

 

[lairiodd]

Maybe as a bonus for testing on gorre any exp/rps you earn there is doubled (unless you lose overall exp, then there is no change) and added to your main ... and you though prydwen players complained before about not being able to use gorre. This would mean real testing + stress testing would happen ... problem is that the exp transfer would probably be bugged.

 

[old.Charonel]

hehe but people HATE xping , hard enough to get an xp group formed on a live server where they'll see some benefit from it, can you even begin to imagine getting them to spend a couple of hours farming mobs on gorre????

 

[Ryo]

Just been off to RvR the first time after patch with my Cab (spent some time at pygmies until now) and I was shocked...although I had read about the bug here, I didnt expect to be two-shotted by a hunter...first shot took 430 of my 804 hp away, second shot took 430 of my remaining 374 hp away...as the damage was identical I am quite sure it was capped damage...and I dont wear sissy gear at the moment, while its not my epic stuff (dont have it yet) its df diamond gear. After the next death I quit for the night and wont go back to RvR until this bug is fixed.

Ryo - Lvl 50 Chanter & Cabby