A combat logs guide to an (offensive) Clerics life.

[Tigerius]

This is a slightly edited log of a spontaneous encounter between a L50 fully buffed all timers up full health full power non-rez sick RR5 Cleric and a RR4 Celt Hero, probably stat buffed, starting the fight OOE and spending most of it in combat with other targets. Cleric can cast relatively safely from the far outskirts of the combat, and in proximity to a keep. Before the log starts a single attack has been made on a Firbolg Druid followed by being engaged by and mezzing the Druid pet (at this point 80% power, mez timer down).

It is not the intention to post a whine, much rather presenting objective facts about what our situation currently looks like. How one chooses to interpret these facts is individual, forgive me if my depressed mood shines through and I come out differently.

------------------------------
You examine CeltHero. He is a member of an enemy realm!!
You begin casting a Stunning Aura spell!
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 115 damage.
You cast a Stunning Aura Spell!
CeltHero is stunned by a burst of air.
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
CeltHero is attacking you and your spell is interrupted!
You must wait 2 seconds to cast a spell!
You begin casting a Holy Fury Spell!
CeltHero attacks you with his Sword!
You are hit for 97 damage.
The wolf adult hits your arm for 16 (-8) damage!
(FirbolgDruid calls his pet on someone else here to my great fortune)
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 207(-107) damage!
You begin casting a Holy Fury Spell!
FirbolgDruid is attacking you and your spell is interrupted!
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
CeltHero misses!
You enter combat mode and target MrCeltHero
CeltHero parries your attack!
You cast a Banish Evil Spell!
CeltHero resists the effect!
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 99 damage.
CeltHero blocks your attack!
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 96 damage.
You attack CeltHero with your mace and hit for 59 (+4) damage!
You hit CeltHero for 21 extra damage!
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 87 damage.
CeltHero blocks your attack!

----------------------------
Normally we could end the log here, we would keep on meleeing. I'm halfway OOP and OOE already. He would be blocking half my attacks, parrying one fourth and resist several of my DDs. Both would survive a long time and whoevers group was winning the larger fight would come and mop up. I could when mez timer resets have a single shot at mezzing him which after Determination (soon resists) barely would give a 2 digit duration, soon this timer will be 5 minutes and that window of oppertunity will close. Left then is only sprinting, provided my spells haven't eaten up all end yet. Maybe buy Tireless for a class not actively
using End is the solution?

This time around the terrain (me being very close to a border keep, not standard) favoured me and I could slowly back into it, CeltHero payed attention and broke stick and returned to the other targets outside guard range. I straight away began to cast.
----------------------------

You must wait 1 seconds to cast a spell!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 207(-107) damage!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 209 (-108) damage!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 207 (-107) damage!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 212 (-110) damage!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spel!
You hit for 214 (-110) damage!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 207 (-107) damage!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 214 (-110) damage!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 212 (-110) damage!
You don't have enough power to cast that!
You cast a Mystic Crystal Lore Spell!
You must wait 3 seconds to cast a spell!
You begin casting a Holy Fury spell!
You cast a Holy Fury Spell!
You hit for 212 (-110) damage!
(Having killed the other targets he comes back for me with his friend CeltBlademaster)
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 86 damage.
You enter combat mode and target CeltHero
You attack CeltHero with your mace and hit for 45 (+3) damage!
You hit CeltHero for 23 extra damage!
You cast a Banish Evil Spell!
You hit CeltHero for 67 (-35) damage!
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 83 damage.
You cast a Heavenly Imagination Spell!
CeltBlademaster resists the effect!
CeltHero resists the effect!
CeltBlademaster attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 93 damage.
CeltBlademaster attacks you with his sickle!
You are hit for 51 damage.
You are too fatigued to sprint!
(Turning tail here)
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 78 damage.
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 91 damage.
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 70 damage.
CeltHero attacks you with his sword!
You are hit for 77 damage.
(Region) You have entered Castle Sauvage.
-----------------------------------------

I reach the safety of the keep, got around 10% power, 30% health and 0% endurance left. Still have both my instaheals and purge. Stunned, attempted mez, meleed and chain casted DDs for 30 seconds or 10 actual casts. My target has Moosed and IPed but is in spite of the above as well as being targeted by other peoples attacks still at around 80% health. In spite of being given an unusual terrain advantage AS WELL as an unusual casting oppertunity and in spite of my target being engaged by others yes even in spite of nuking my entire power bar dry, I have drastically failed in making a difference on a single target, even less so the greater conflict.

I'm RR5, have after modifications 49 in my Smiting line, using only the 2nd to best DD but enhanced by Mastery of Magery 2 (+6%). Also have 19% +15% armor in Slash resist. My target is RR4, defensively specced in some form, has 26% +3% RA +5% racial resist (I'm guessing), high resist but not unlikely high (I have as high/higher) as resists bonuses will only become more common, the resist RA is only 1p initially and several races have natural spirit resistance. On top of that it's not unlikely to see buffed, unlikely NOT to see when resist buffs go on timer instead of conc.

Oh did I mention that I'm due for a across the board, all offensive spells included, 20% damage reduction? As well as a drastic reduction in viability of my only means of shaking attackers.

I won't claim the events in the log are as things standardly look, normally I would be grouped and starting out the fight in a more central / exposed position and focus on more essential tasks than wasting power on a tank and would also much much sooner either be mezzed, continually interrupted by casters/archers or engaged in melee with no effective means of avoiding it. For the above reasons I haven't been able to so directly log or point to the issue, and while the results shouldn't suprise me having it on black and white like this both suprises and depresses me. Keep in mind that this is at the "too good, about to be nerfed" stage.

Love to hear your thoughts and comments and less so flames

RR5 L50 Cleric, longing to throw in the towel.

 

[Noche]

Hehehe... now plz imagine wot would a caster do.

Having LOW hp and not that high dmg dds with huge resists.

A caster would have pressed his /release button. (just in case, alb caster )

 

[Novamir]

why weren't you healing again?

if a druid posted his combat log here it would go something like:

You cast a dotthingy on randomenemy!
You hit randomenemy for 10 damage!
You hit randomenemy for 9 damage!
You hit randomenemy for 15 damage!
You hit randomenemy for 14 damage!
The poison has run its course.

as far as i can see you do decent DD damage (1894 in 8 casts- would love to see either other realms primary healer do taht sort of damage) and you have a get-out insta pb mez at the moment every 30sec. nerf okthx

maybe you would prefer a fire wizard with chain and 2 insta heals?

 

[Apathy]

Oh no! A smite cleric who can't solo a hero? This is AWFUL!

Don't worry, because I totally feel your pain. I am a sorcerer and I can't solo a beserker.

Goa, I hate you. And you too, Mythic. You have RUINED the lives of me and Tigerius, you cunts.

a.
*

 

[Archeon]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
Oh no! A smite cleric who can't solo a hero? This is AWFUL!

Don't worry, because I totally feel your pain. I am a sorcerer and I can't solo a beserker.

Goa, I hate you. And you too, Mythic. You have RUINED the lives of me and Tigerius, you cunts.

LOL! just about the only part of this post that makes sense.

Tigerius, don't forget you might be a smite cleric but that doesn't change the fundimental fact that your a healer class, not a caster or tank class.

you should be greatful you can actually cause atleast some hurt to tanks

 

[old.chesnor]

pld Tigerius. You have kind of justified Mythic nerfing smite there. "I can't take a celt hero (with help from his druid and blademaster mate) out!!!111". OMG. How do you think a druid would have held up in that fight ? You think he would have made it back to sausage ?

I think not

 

[bf_kate]

Did you even read the fucking post?

Hello?

Anyone home?

Tig did not say she though she should be able to solo a hero. Where does it say that? She said she doesn't understand why smite clerics need to be nerfed. She used all her power (smite specced) dd'ing a hero and hardly dmged him relative to the situation - him having moose and ignore pain. She wasn't solo, she was back against a bk nuking. And while this hero had other people attacking it and her using all her power he ends up with 80% health.

It would be nice if you tried reading and understanding what she is saying before you go into rabid flame mode.

What would a caster do? A caster has range and hits a damn sight harder than that. At a bk situation I think a caster would do well. But that isn't what the post is about - the post is about the fact that smite clerics aren't over powered in rvr.

Nova a druid is not the same thing as a smite cleric. You can't compare classes like that. You would try to compare a Healer and a Cleric would you? They have completely different spec lines. A full specced smite cleric does NOT have two full insta or great buffs. You will have one insta and it isn't very great. You don't have the range, the power effectiveness or the damage output of a wizard. You also don't have the hitpoints as a rejuv/enhan cleric because you have sacrificed all for smite.

Read the post again please.

 

[-Lonewolf-]

I think what people are missing here is that the cleric bar the friar is the one and only heal class in the whole of albion

Along with mids healer ability to insta mez alot and the hibs unsurmountable amount of healers BARD WARDEN DRUID MENTALIST need I go on

I think he is trying to express somekind of problem with clerics in albion without the attacking powah they have nothing

Bards have the uber mez, Wardens have super bubble and some attacking powah

Druids have a pet all be it a shit one but a pet nevertheless

And healers in Mid have uber insta mez

And Shamans are good with the end buff and their dot DMG

Go to the American servers and u will something there are tons of clerics

And u wanna know what they are.....Buff bots nothing more and I am deadly serious about that, tons of them buff botting and thats it, its even hard for a group to get a active cleric in their group anymore

What people fail to see is that a class has to be effective in some way whether passively i.e Mez, stun or aggressively i.e smite, general melee

Without the appeal of the class wains and so does the customers patience and subs

Bye bye to the clerics in Albion come the new patches, and no matter what any of u say it is a pure fact go check the American servers if u don't believe me its a Travesty

 

[belth]

With those kinds of Spirit resists, there is 0 reason to kill off battleclerics.

 

[bf_kate]

Lonewolf you forgot the Cabalist

Soon to be the only healer in Albion!

 

[Gilead^]

Originally posted by belth
With those kinds of Spirit resists, there is 0 reason to kill off battleclerics.

ok lets look at this for a minute,if a cleric goes 40smite/26heal/25buffs he could have 2 instas a good smite and average buffs,for this he can do resonable damage to most classes<210 before resists isnt bad to a tank> can heal for somewhere between 400-500,has 2 instas and pretty resonable buffs

for a druid with this spec he gets a pants lvl 37 pet,a 45 a tick dot for 4 ticks i think and a root that annoys every bard in the realm

weigh up those 2 choices and 90%+ ppl would chose a cleric if it was presented to them before they started the game

ktnxbye

 

[katt!]

Originally posted by Archeon

Tigerius, don't forget you might be a smite cleric but that doesn't change the fundimental fact that your a healer class, not a caster or tank class.

..and you are a healing class with the best cc in the game.

good thinking m8 xDDD

 

[Archeon]

Originally posted by Tigerius
Still have both my instaheals and purge.

did i hear sombody say she only had one shoddy insta?


anyway, sarcasm aside i appogise if i sounded overly aggresive and will now make a point.

as it was already stated barring friars clerics are the only healer class in albion, now i'm only judging this on my experience but i see friars whipping out their pain stick a lot more than i see them healing so i'm going on the assumtion that clerics are the albions primary healers. please by all means correct me if i'm wrong...


anyway, i also hear that the majority of clerics are smite specced. again please do correct me if i'm wrong about this, anyway doesn't it seem a little odd that a realms primary healer also has a fair deal of offensive capacity? and itsn't it odd that along with the smite spec line being nerfed we're also getting a respec? basically camelot has always been DAoC's golden child, you get some stuff that us other realms don't and your classes are far more versitle (ever seen a beserker pull? ) maybe this is some kind of hint from mythic to turn a realms healing poulace away from having the most powerful nukes, etc and maybe focussing on healing and buffing?

i dunno, its just vauge specualtion from one who doesn't really care how clerics are specced so long as he gets his RP each time he takes one down


EDIT -

..and you are a healing class with the best cc in the game.

good thinking m8 xDDD

read the siggy chuckles

 

[katt!]

Re: Re: A combat logs guide to an (offensive) Clerics life.

read the siggy chuckles

not my problem that you choose to gimp yourself ;/

 

[bf_kate]

Re: Re: A combat logs guide to an (offensive) Clerics life.

Originally posted by Archeon


did i hear sombody say she only had one shoddy insta?

Ok ok got that bit wrong. She isn't as high smite as some.

as it was already stated barring friars clerics are the only healer class in albion, now i'm only judging this on my experience but i see friars whipping out their pain stick a lot more than i see them healing so i'm going on the assumtion that clerics are the albions primary healers. please by all means correct me if i'm wrong...

anyway, i also hear that the majority of clerics are smite specced. again please do correct me if i'm wrong about this, anyway doesn't it seem a little odd that a realms primary healer also has a fair deal of offensive capacity? and itsn't it odd that along with the smite spec line being nerfed we're also getting a respec? basically camelot has always been DAoC's golden child, you get some stuff that us other realms don't and your classes are far more versitle (ever seen a beserker pull? ) maybe this is some kind of hint from mythic to turn a realms healing poulace away from having the most powerful nukes, etc and maybe focussing on healing and buffing?

Partly yes. Friars generally don't heal and I am fine with that. They still aren't that common in RvR. I wouldn't say the problem is that most clerics are smite specced. I would say the problem is that most clerics just can't seem to help themselves and start smiting like mad in RvR. I was grouped with a cleric who has about 10 smite and I was running towards him dying and he started smiting the enemy! This pisses Albions off (along with the cleric's solo ability in pve) so they yelled for nerf on smite. What they didn't realise is that they are killing the class.

I don't find it at all odd that clerics get offensive capacity - we don't get the cc, power regen, speed of a healer. We don't get the pet, root or dot of the Warden (say what you want but that pet stops me from casting for quit a long time during which serveral members of my group are dying.) We were given smite instead - so we took advantage of it. It is not over powered in rvr. Please name the smite cleric that you all fear in rvr. You can't cause there isnt one.

Sorry you just sound silly saying our classes are more versatile. It's bs. Have you ever seen a paladin pull? or a friar? NO. We don't get the goodies the other primary healers get and now they are taking smite and putting mez on a 5 minute timer. This leaves us with a single target stun, heals and buffs. I could do without being Mythic's golden child thanks.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by bf_kate
Did you even read the fucking post?

Hello?

Anyone home?

Tig did not say she though she should be able to solo a hero. Where does it say that? She said she doesn't understand why smite clerics need to be nerfed. She used all her power (smite specced) dd'ing a hero and hardly dmged him relative to the situation - him having moose and ignore pain. She wasn't solo, she was back against a bk nuking. And while this hero had other people attacking it and her using all her power he ends up with 80% health.

It would be nice if you tried reading and understanding what she is saying before you go into rabid flame mode.

What would a caster do? A caster has range and hits a damn sight harder than that. At a bk situation I think a caster would do well. But that isn't what the post is about - the post is about the fact that smite clerics aren't over powered in rvr.

Nova a druid is not the same thing as a smite cleric. You can't compare classes like that. You would try to compare a Healer and a Cleric would you? They have completely different spec lines. A full specced smite cleric does NOT have two full insta or great buffs. You will have one insta and it isn't very great. You don't have the range, the power effectiveness or the damage output of a wizard. You also don't have the hitpoints as a rejuv/enhan cleric because you have sacrificed all for smite.

Read the post again please.

Yeah I did read it. He/she was whining because they couldn't kill a hero, and attempting to justify why they think the nerf sucks because of that.

And for every fight like the one Tigerius posted I am sure he/she has megabytes of logs of him/her completely pwning almost every class in the entire freaking game. Posting one log as a 'we don't deserve nerf' is dumb.

You are really, really, miles off the target trying to argue that smite clerics aren't overpowered. That battle is lost, move on. The funniest thing is, if you look at smite after 1.52 it is still really good. No longer uber, just good. Deal with it. Problem is most Albs are too stupid or too bloody minded to even realise it. Spec away from smite fools, and weaken your realm further.

 

[hotrat]

Indeed smite clerics dont need a nerf if you compare them to the other healing classes, druid soon gets insta root and insta ae root as well as a pet and a DoT, cast and forget type spell. Healer gets loads of cc.
The problem comes when you compare smite clerics to a wizard, yes a wiz does more dmg per nuke, and has a long range bolt. But a smite cleric can ae smite, pbae smite, pbae mezz, stun, 2 insta's, chain, buff, heal. Suddenly they don't seem quite so gimped.
Putting albs only insta ae mezz on a 5 min timer when it was already super gimped cus its pbae was an ok fix IF they changed it from pbae to 1500 range (change timer to 10 min).

 

[Archeon]

Re: Re: Re: A combat logs guide to an (offensive) Clerics life.

Originally posted by kedal


not my problem that you choose to gimp yourself ;/

never heard anyone tell me that before

if not needing to waste 14 realm points on PR (don't forget most if not all tanks have purge these days, and most runies have MCL)

And if being able to lay down a group insta that brings all the players in your group up to more or less 100% (i know it says 75% for the 3rd lvl insta, but with bonus's and all that its more like 90-95%)

And if only having the lvl 1 ST insta stun and mes

And if only having poi,

if all of those are the making of a gimped character then gimp me up, cause i'm loving every moment of it


Ok, if most clerics can't help but smite then thats a problem with the way people play their class. not how under/over powered smite is, gotta admit the smite cleric is the one class i hold a grudge against because i'd kill for atleast 1 offensive spell even if it did fek all dmg it would be better than nothing

 

[Tigerius]

Noche: Show me the caster that has "not so high damage DDs". You are trying to say that Clerics actually DD for more than casters here? :/ FYI, a Caster could probably with 150 more units stood inside guard range and nuked without being melee interrupted. Show me a log of a caster chain-casting uninterrupted for 30 seconds or more and achieving so little?

Novamir: I was almost going to post the reason why I didn't heal as I KNEW someone would bring it up against me. Sadly it holds no relevance whasoever in this case so I thought it would be spammy to do so. I wasn't healing because I'm an evil bitch that dislikes not getting RP for healing. Or maybe I was just thrown into a situation where I knew nothing of the ongoing fight, all I could see what 2 albs (potentially v.low cons, it was at bk) surrounded by hibs that made no attempt to head back to bk. My chances of healing them until they had succesfully fought and killed the surrounding 5 or so hibs? Non-existent. Had they been heading back to safety of bk I would have assisted them in surviving that. I chose to make trouble or the hibs, being actually convinced I would succed :/
Maybe you missed the part where the "get-out" insta PBAoE mezz was resisted by not 1 but both it's targets? Maybe you missed the part where I was forced to use it on a green con pet? Maybe you missed the part about it being the NERF to 5 mins being the actual problem not present status.
Show me a damage log of Nature spec Druid using his offensive powers until OOP under more or less optimal circumstances.

Archeon: Yes, yes you are entirely right. I should be eternally grateful that I can do damage, just as every Druid should be enternally grateful for his green con pet being able to interrupt casters to madness and every healer should praise their mighty ability to wield a fearsome 2H hammer. Or... not. You can't be grateful for an ability that fails to be meaningful.

Chesnor: First of all, he didn't have any help from the Druid or Blademaster. The druid got badly hurt and ran for the hills eventually and the blademaster unless more powerful than I thought cannot block DDs. Second of all, soloing? Had I been solo that Hero would either gone out of my range or just went in and interrupted me after 2 casts (if you read back, the first part of the log nicely illustrates what would happen in a "duel" type situation), no chance on this planet would I get 10 DDs in on anyone. Instead of solo picture this, you catch an enemy that is AFK, you cast and you cast until you are OOP and he still isn't dead. Isn't that bizarre?

Belth: Pretty accurate observation there. It's all in the resists. Against gimps like SBs (0 spirit on epic armor) I can almost feel like a real nuker, but anyone not so gimped knows resistances makes the difference and as soon as they have it...

Gilead: That's pretty much my spec there yeah, nice n balanced. I think 210 dmg to a class with 2100 HP buffed, an additional 3150 potentially, is quite poor. Generally I don't target tanks with my spec as the damage will be poor. However again I must remind that the greater issue isn't that the current damage is too low, but that it apparently is too HIGH and deserved a hard cut by 20% without equal reduction in power cost or anything.

Archeon again: I'll just giggle and ignore at your ideas of Albion classes being the most versatile. Take a lower number of abilities and spread them out on a higher number of classes and you get an idea of how impossible this is. Clerics are indeed Albions primary healer, just as Midgard Healers are, with both these classes it's common to spec the additional line high and around 50% in healing. This won't make you a healing god by no means but will support groups in PvE and some instaheals. It will also allow the player to get some more interesting spells out of the additional line that fills a void sometimes left by healing alone. You are correct in your assumption that respec and smite nerf going hand in hand IS a way for Mythic to try and point Clerics in the direction of healing, something other Albion classes have at points cheered on. I just don't know where you are trying to go with this? What if I *shock* like the character I've leveled to 50 and to RR5 and don't want to be forced into the a fit role by Mythic, to after months with this char reevaluate everything. GOA even says this in their "respec warning" mail, that many won't ever fully come to terms with a drastically changed role.

It is not right to make a line useless just because others want a healer. It did not work to do so, listen to what Lonewolf said.

 

[-yoda-]

top 3 clerics
1Pitonisa 943,098 Santa Inquisicion
2 Noret Suri 914,423 First Cohort
3 3 Kate Baiserdelavie 865,245 Black Falcons


top 3 bards

1 Miss 1,765,724 Llaw Arian Celt
2 Daigh 916,714 Lliad Ddraig Celt
3 Nicky Nook 899,248 Dark Order Celt

top 3 healers
1 Eiaals TheMedic 1,873,949 50 Nolby Pride Dwarf
2 Xanatea Slan 1,755,655 50 Nolby Pride Norseman
3 Emergency Roma 880,749 Cutting Edge Norseman

Chesnor can u please point out where it shows clerics are overpowered please ?
yes i used excal as an example but i can guarentee you the sme will be on EVERY server top clerric will be the lowest rp earner of all3 . with maybe exception of one or 2 . this is BEFORE the cleric nerf so how u can say they are overpowered imo is just being blind eye'd and hoping all enemy classes get nerfed to extinction so u can farm more easier do you play a healer? if you do im sure you maybe just jelous because clerics have a better offensive in a 1v1 situation than yourself , if you think cleris are overpowered i truely would like your thoughts on Healers insta ae's and bards instas ... but seeing as you a mid i d0nt expect you to ADMIT healers and bards are over powered and have the capability to SINGLE handedly decide the outcome of a 8v8 or a 8v8+ battle . as kate pointed out nerfing smite = not worth speccing in . hence the ONLY thing clerics can do is buff/heal and stun . where asd realm equivilents have a lot more ,

 

[Archeon]

Originally posted by Tigerius
Archeon: Yes, yes you are entirely right. I should be eternally grateful that I can do damage, just as every Druid should be enternally grateful for his green con pet being able to interrupt casters to madness and every healer should praise their mighty ability to wield a fearsome 2H hammer. Or... not. You can't be grateful for an ability that fails to be meaningful.

Oi! you'l fear my hammer or i'l teach you to fear it by standing on a stone miles away from you and wave it viciously naked while praying to go no inf's see me

Originally posted by Tigerius
Archeon again: I'll just giggle and ignore at your ideas of Albion classes being the most versatile. Take a lower number of abilities and spread them out on a higher number of classes and you get an idea of how impossible this is. Clerics are indeed Albions primary healer, just as Midgard Healers are, with both these classes it's common to spec the additional line high and around 50% in healing. This won't make you a healing god by no means but will support groups in PvE and some instaheals. It will also allow the player to get some more interesting spells out of the additional line that fills a void sometimes left by healing alone. You are correct in your assumption that respec and smite nerf going hand in hand IS a way for Mythic to try and point Clerics in the direction of healing, something other Albion classes have at points cheered on. I just don't know where you are trying to go with this? What if I *shock* like the character I've leveled to 50 and to RR5 and don't want to be forced into the a fit role by Mythic, to after months with this char reevaluate everything. GOA even says this in their "respec warning" mail, that many won't ever fully come to terms with a drastically changed role.
[/B]

alright, i'l admit the main reason i said that your classes are more versitle is because in RvR i constantly see the same classes

Armsmen,
Pally, (occasionally)
Friar,
Wizzys,
Minnys,
Inf's,
And Scouts,
Clerics (can't forget these )

being a lowly RR3 i'm certainly not going to run around saying that this is a fact if you don't belive me i'm going to skin your testicals off with a rusty nail-file. however seeing as i actually spend a fari ammount of my time watching battles/ healing and genrally trying to avoid the attention of the enemy i'd like to think i'm more or less right.

anyway, by seeing so many of these same classes i get the feeling you have so many of these classes because you don't need that many of the others. maybe i am wrong and the reason you have so many of these classes is because these are the most powerful classes....

mm... any views on this?

(btw, plz tell me if i'm being to patronising. i don't want you to get the impression i think i'm better than you... even if i am )

 

[old.chesnor]

Sorry to dissapoint you Yoda, I don't play Mid. My 'main' is a smite cleric on Alb/Prydwen Specced something like 11rejuv/14enh/29smite atm. And I intend to spec smite after 1.52 as well. I am bloody minded enough to have rolled a cleric after the smite nerf was announced in US. I am quite a rare breed on Alb/Pryd atm, a smiter who is speccing smite and will carry on after 1.52

This isn't BS either. I have played most if not all classes in this game now, and if you ask me if a smite specced cleric is overpowered, I say yes. In PvE, when soloing I very rarely die. I can easily group, as my healing is adequate. I can even do CC for groups at a push. I can solo oranges. My mezz, which isn't resisted much is on a 30s timer. If it is resisted, I can sprint (I use no end when meleeing) until mezz is back up again. Easy life. I also have a stun, which when stacked with pbaemezz, buys me enough time for 2 specline smites, or 3 baseline smites should mobs get the jump on me.

My point here is, and the point Yoda, Kate, and Tigerius singularly miss is that Smite Clerics are overpowered BECAUSE they were such powerful solo chars. What do most powerful SOLO chars do in RvR ? They solo....

You point out that Healers and Bards are higher than Clerics in the RP tables ? Wanna know why ? Because Healers and Bards are support classes 100%, they can't solo, or even realistically spec to solo. They get RP because they are in fgs, doing what they do for the good of the group. Not trying to smite a f*cking celt hero, but healing, ressing, mezzing, POMing, speedsonging...all those things Albs seem to think are 'boring'.

 

[Tigerius]

Chesnor: I could tell you about experiences of beating a large number of classes and players in a 1on1, beating as in being last person standing. Pwning however is a completely laughable description of how these duels look. I exclusively take more damage than I do, up to twice the amounts, I almost exclusively have more defensive RA's (excluding IP which I can't get and which together with FA has as % wise strong effect as both my instaheals), and I have every buff in town on myself and fairly high enhance spec and equipment setup for maximum resists. I can also tell you about experiences when I have lost to a class I normally beat, as the player has a similarly strong setup.

I can also tell you that I know very well which classes I can beat, how to beat the classes I potentially can and that I many times do 180 turns and sprint for my life. I have very limited means of picking my fights, unlike most of the classes I can beat. What I'm trying to get at here, is that those I beat in a 1on1 are those who commonly have chosen to attack me, believing mistakenly all along that they could take me. Maybe they should learn to use the ability to pick their fights?

As for having a log archive, I unfortunaly don't. I always forget to turn logging on and I've never felt the need to proove myself through them. This log was constructed retroactively from screenshots of the scrolled back history. I did this because looking back at it I thought it so well showed the downsides of the class, and looking back at the log is what spawned my idea of showing people a log that so accurately showed how things are from my point of view. It didn't happen the other way around, I didn't decide to post a whine and went and dug up a suiting log for the purpose.

You are right that 1 log doesn't say it all, but there are no random factors in cleric logs I can't crit, I have very little room to get lucky. Getting to cast 30 seconds straight like here is an immensly lucky opperunity. What you see here is what it comes down to. This log was recorded last night right before I went to bed BTW.

Tell me, if I had a log archive wouldn't I just go on posting 2 more logs saying the exact same thing now?

 

[old.Wildfire]

I tend to run into millions of theurgists, even more millions of armsmen and paladins, very few friars or cabalists, a few sorcs, a few wizards, a cleric dotted here and there...
Some minstrels (usually running around solo or with altfiltrators instead of with groups), sometimes you'll spot a scout or a mercenary, but not often.

In conclusion : Too many heavy tanks, not enough utility classes. I assume there are lots of theurgs because groups always want them for PvE cos they can sit there running PBT... same for minstrels and PS.

IMHO alb needs more sorcerers, clerics and wizards. Reasons for this are a) TOTAL lack of alb mezz CC, b) not enough decent clerics, c) albion always seems to be out-gunned at long and short range with DDs, be it from runemasters/eldritches with their bolts and nearsight, or enchanters with their PBAOE.

 

[Tigerius]

Originally posted by Archeon

alright, i'l admit the main reason i said that your classes are more versitle is because in RvR i constantly see the same classes

Armsmen,
Pally, (occasionally)
Friar,
Wizzys,
Minnys,
Inf's,
And Scouts,
Clerics (can't forget these )

anyway, by seeing so many of these same classes i get the feeling you have so many of these classes because you don't need that many of the others. maybe i am wrong and the reason you have so many of these classes is because these are the most powerful classes....

mm... any views on this?

(btw, plz tell me if i'm being to patronising. i don't want you to get the impression i think i'm better than you... even if i am )

Thanks for the honesty here. The reason why you see few classes in RvR if you really say you do? Is that they are the classes that have appealed to people. Even today alot of players are playing the first character they reached RvR age with, they might not be fully happy with it, their original choice being based on entirely different factors, but they stick with it and make the best of it. Some reroll infiltrators.

Classes that don't appeal to people generally:
Sorcerers
Mercenaries
Cabalist
Friars
Minstrels

The later 2 are more common today as it eventually dawned on people, partly through US influences, that they were pretty good classes. Very low % of them played the class initially on the server though. Even Cabbies are gaining in popularity.

The classes you do see are however far from all we need, part of Albions problem I guess. Maybe you noted that one of the classes you didn't (correctly so) list was Sorcerers, our main CC class. In fact if you review the last you will see that most of these classes (including Friar more or less) are just damage dealers, low utility and few group abilities. Which classes are in RvR is pretty much beyond our control, it's the classes that appeal to different people, more or less. Soon Clerics will loose alot of appeal and you will begin seeing them far less and we take yet another step towards worse RvR groups.

We really do need most of our 14 classes.

 

[Mageling]

Silly

Originally posted by bf_kate
A full specced smite cleric does NOT have two full insta or great buffs.

Get a fuckin’ clue your a healer class, you don’t do damage, you HEAL damage. Full smithe is just a wannabe mage, and wannabes should never come close to the original bottom line.

Why don’t you roll an armsman and spec crossbow fully, and then whine why you don’t have crit shot and stealth as well.

Mentality:
Btw, hey I picked a class which is easy to group and level, now I healed for fifty levels now it’s time for me to blow shit up. I mean common healing is boring.

 

[Archeon]

Re: Silly

Originally posted by Mageling

Mentality:
Btw, hey I picked a class which is easy to group and level, now I healed for fifty levels now it’s time for me to blow shit up. I mean common healing is boring.

more or less what i wanted to say, but i chose not to douse it in petrol, drop it into an oil reserve and then drop a thermo-nuclear bomb ontop of it

 

[Tigerius]

How elegantly put. Must been taken out of the manual somewhere right? No... no wait. It doesn't say so anywhere, no "you may only heal". This is your idea of the game, not Mythics. If it was Mythics then they wouldn't have given them a damage line would they? Good, settled. (BTW, most RPGs have Clerics as a class with a potent offensive side in addition to the defensive/healing).

As for wannabes, there are plenty in this game. We call them hybrids. What they loose in the single area they gain in another. Again, your opinion is that hybrids should not be accepted but apparently the developers thought people would find it attractive to play someone versed in different aspects. I did. It is not your place to tell me which class I should be playing. Deep down this is a RP game, some people actually choose their class for it's feel rather than cold hard abilities, because they picture themselves as a chosen warrior of Thor rather than "wannabe nuker".

Mentality: I've leveled for 50 levels having asses like you telling me what I must do as if it wasn't bloody obvious, now I like being able to give you the finger, decline invitation and leave apk knowing I'm not assassin food. I do what I want to do, when I want to do it and for who I want to. I appreciate having my options and my free will.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Re: Re: Re: A combat logs guide to an (offensive) Clerics life.

Originally posted by bf_kate
We don't get the pet, root or dot of the Warden (say what you want but that pet stops me from casting for quit a long time during which serveral members of my group are dying.)

Prolly just a mistake, but you mean a druid ( ;

Wardens are the ones with the uber bubble. The uber bubble takes at least 45 in nurture btw. Most wardens spec very little in regrowth, so they're not that great healers. They hardly do damage either. Only thing a warden is generally really good at, is warding himself and his group members... just like was intended ( :

Just like to say that among all the people constantly complaining about everything that prevents them from reaching RR10 in 1 week, I'm actually completely happy with my class.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Hm.. I've seen Heroes run around while being nuked by a few mages, chased by a few tanks, and still manage to survive for a good few minutes.
Heroes are one of the most powerful classes in the game, and I can't help but wonder if it may have been a bit more of an honest test if you ran it on a blademaster, or a champion or such.

Besides that, I'm not sure I understand.. you say your offensive capabilities are weak, why weaken them more?

Well.. I know that no one should dictate how you play your class, it is your character after all, but the cleric class was designed to heal.. I think since the damage output was probably deemed too high for a healing class, they decided to reduce it, so you get back to doing what the class was designed to do.. a small persuasion if you will.

It's similar with druids, who get upset at only being able to heal all the time, and often tell the bard or warden to start healing, because he wants to tank, or use his DoTs... what the druid doesn't seem to understand is, he was taken on in the group for his healing ability.. not for his offensive.

I can't speak with much authority on this however, since I have little knowledge of the class, but it does seem to be quite similar to our druids problem at 50.