22-11-05 Constant lag spikes/LD

[Irksole]

All i know is these lags and LD's are rediculous(sp?)...cant even play 10 minutes without an LD, useless, it would be in GOA's interest to do what they can to try and sort it out, also in the questionnaire today there was no option of improving server conditions and reducing lag/lds which i certainly would have chosen above the other options, who wants a great game if u cant even play it due to instability.

 

[anioal]

I had bad lag / ld's during the yesterday evening (was a dragon raid goin) and so did a lot of the peeps involved in that dragon raid...

What i did, and you all need to do the same, was to download/install/run pingplotter (google for it if you dont have it). Set the end point to be 193.252.123.33, set the trace interval to 1 second or 2.5 seconds and let it run.

In my case the problems ware at the isp just before opentransit (cant really remember the name), problems like high ping - around 200-400ms, packet loss - between 10-50% and very, i mean very many route changes.

Voila... really no point to hammer GOA and the gm's for it (unless the problems are in their own courtyard).

The only thing u can do is to save & send to GOA and to your ISP the traces from Pingplotter.

NOTHING MORE.

Really

 

[Flimgoblin]

get traces and pingplots, more we get, faster GOA can go "here's a bzillion problems we're having with your network, please fixor m8" and faster it gets fixed.

The disconnections from the NF zone (the "server has encountered an error" rather than " lost connection to server") should have been fixed according to the news:
http://daoc.goa.com/news/view_news.php3?id_article=3709

so that'll help too.

 

[Alan]

Said this before during the verious other LD problems.

The image GoA are presenting stinks. The comments to "contact your ISP" are (im sad to say) pathetic.

I fully understand that the problem lies not with the GoA equipment or infastructure, but it also does not relate to the customers equipment or infastructure - its somewhere inbetween.

There are thousands of ISP's being used by the players of DAOC, for each person to go to their own ISP saying they are having connection problems will get ignored, where as a message from GoA to their backbone saying we have thousands of customers experiencing problems this is making our services look bad and may result in a loss of revenue - is much better.

If LD problems do affect the vast majority of the players population GoA should be willing to accept as many ping plots as their customers can send - then as a business present these to their backbone rather than tell their customers to talk to their ISP.

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

GoA should be willing to accept as many ping plots as their customers can send

FYI over the last week (where this problem has apparantly been very bad for players) I have recieved a grand total of .... 2 ping plots. And one of them I took from this thread.

 

[Corran]

There is a very limited amount that we can do about this problem.[B] We can collect information and pass it on to whichever company is responsible for the router(s) causing the problem.[/B] Your ISP can also escalate consumer complaints and to be honest they are likely to have much more luck with that than we are.

Think that clearly shows that goa want them but you should ALSO contact your ISP who have more rights in forcing the companies to fix the issue then that whcih goa do.

FYI over the last week (where this problem has apparantly been very bad for players) I have recieved a grand total of .... 2 ping plots. And one of them I took from this thread.

I know im guilty at not sending them in, but then i cut down on playing the last week or so, just gave me a reason to take more time off. Been nice change

 

[IainC]

If LD problems do affect the vast majority of the players population GoA should be willing to accept as many ping plots as their customers can send - then as a business present these to their backbone rather than tell their customers to talk to their ISP.

Ermm.. we are.

We can collect information and pass it on to whichever company is responsible for the router(s) causing the problem.

Realistically though, it's not as likely to achieve anything as an escalation from an ISP. We're willing to pass them on however the most effective way forwards is to lobby your ISP.

 

[Alan]

FYI over the last week (where this problem has apparantly been very bad for players) I have recieved a grand total of .... 2 ping plots. And one of them I took from this thread.

Which proves the people at GoA are willing to help - but the information is not getting through, the general attitude from the company (not the individuals who kindly post here) is - take your one lonely voice to your ISP.

 

[Alan]

Realistically though, it's not as likely to achieve anything as an escalation from an ISP. We're willing to pass them on however the most effective way forwards is to lobby your ISP.

I guess this is where our opinions differ, I would have expected a company that must be paying a substantial amount of money to a backbone to have more weight saying "our customers are having problems getting through to us" then the voice of a single user to one of thousands of ISP's saying "i cant connect to a server"

 

[IainC]

I guess this is where our opinions differ, I would have expected a company that must be paying a substantial amount of money to a backbone to have more weight saying "our customers are having problems getting through to us" then the voice of a single user to one of thousands of ISP's saying "i cant connect to a server"

No because we don't pay money to a backbone. We pay for hosting and bandwidth at our server farm. Everything past the portal is covered by contracts, SLAs etc. Routing up to that point is the responsibility of ISPs. The companies that operate the backbones and international hubs are answerable to ISPs not to people like us. Otherwise we'd need to have contracts with every network provider in Europe.

 

[Fana]

No because we don't pay money to a backbone. We pay for hosting and bandwidth at our server farm. Everything past the portal is covered by contracts, SLAs etc. Routing up to that point is the responsibility of ISPs. The companies that operate the backbones and international hubs are answerable to ISPs not to people like us. Otherwise we'd need to have contracts with every network provider in Europe.

I think what he means is that even though you dont have any legal pull on these intermediary ISP's it would still have a greater impact if you called them and said "Hi, we are a company with some 30000 customers that need to reach us and have an uninterupted connection through your network, but they are having huge troubles doing so atm, could you please investigate why this is, and possibly solve it, so we dont have to escalate this to our provider?" Or some such. As i understand it you have already dont this though, since you have sent them pingplots etc.

 

[Comos]

Ok I sent a pingplot taken when the server was lagging to Telenet, my broadband ISP and guess what. I got the reply I just knew I was gonne get: Basically they advised me to 1) reset my broadband modem.....
2) perform a dhcp release and renew .......
and a bunch of other software related crap I should try out on my pc <yawn>
The e-mail was in the standard auto-reply form and wasn't really a surprise tbh. I also clearly pointed out that the ping from the telenet routers in the pingplot was ok.

And we are to expect those kind of people to just call up some country where the backbone routers are located that are causing the prob and tell them about it? Even if they receive several of those plots, they all end up in a giant pile of e-mails from people with problems like "Hi, I cannot send e-mails with my outlook express! " or "Hello, my computers says the network cable is unplugged, what do I do?". And as long as the auto-replies and noob faqs help 99% of those people, why care for the 1% that arent helped by them. (that would be us)


I guess we'll just have to wait for the problem to fix itself in a few weeks, i.e. when some employee spills his coffee on the router that's causing the trouble and they have to get a new one that does work, or something.

 

[Alan]

No because we don't pay money to a backbone. We pay for hosting and bandwidth at our server farm. Everything past the portal is covered by contracts, SLAs etc. Routing up to that point is the responsibility of ISPs. The companies that operate the backbones and international hubs are answerable to ISPs not to people like us. Otherwise we'd need to have contracts with every network provider in Europe.

The subsequent posts have kinda posted my thoughts on this (I didnt quite state my ideas clearly enough)

GoA provide a service which users connect to, GoA pay an ISP/Hosting comany to obtain a connection to the internet. The voice of GoA saying our customers cant connect (in my eyes) is more likely to recieve escalation that a single user at home calling his ISP saying he cant play a computer game (This is backed up by the post above - I know if I called my ISP they would insist on resetting my router before doing any further help)


Edit :

Where I work, if many customers complained about not being able to access our web site, or lagged connections and time out to the content the last thing we would do is say "contact your ISP" we as an international company would be on to our ISP complaining. Sure they would tell us the problem is further up stream and there is little they can do, but we would carry a much larger voice than our individual customers.

 

[Corran]

The subsequent posts have kinda posted my thoughts on this (I didnt quite state my ideas clearly enough)

GoA provide a service which users connect to, GoA pay an ISP/Hosting comany to obtain a connection to the internet. The voice of GoA saying our customers cant connect (in my eyes) is more likely to recieve escalation that a single user at home calling his ISP saying he cant play a computer game (This is backed up by the post above - I know if I called my ISP they would insist on resetting my router before doing any further help)


Edit :

Where I work, if many customers complained about not being able to access our web site, or lagged connections and time out to the content the last thing we would do is say "contact your ISP" we as an international company would be on to our ISP complaining. Sure they would tell us the problem is further up stream and there is little they can do, but we would carry a much larger voice than our individual customers.

And this is the reason you should take pingplotters and send it to GoA AND your ISP. Means that the company that got the problems is going to have complaints from a larger number of companies which is more likely to get it sorted. GoA can complain but without the contracts in place which ISP got their success is limited is the point. Moment you got ISP's with contracts supporting GoA's complaints you will most likely get action taken

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

I guess we'll just have to wait for the problem to fix itself in a few weeks, i.e. when some employee spills his coffee on the router that's causing the trouble and they have to get a new one that does work, or something.

No!!!! Send those ping plots to me (directly or via RightNow). I'll pass them on to the sysnet admins who will pass them on to Open Transit.

Please please please send them - you've done the hardwork of actually running them, just a couple of clicks more..

 

[Gamah]

Nice to see you back erivoss

 

[Aldain]

Slight sarcasm detected in that last post Still, pingplot ran and sent to GOA/ISP, though I don't expect much.

 

[Gear]

Don't send anything more, now I learned to mezz with this lag, I'll miss it if it goes (also covers up the fact that I suck and can always blame it on lag )

 

[remi]

why waste time on pingplots? it's been same french router problems the whole year?

i vote; move servers to sweden! gogogoggo!

 

[Argante]

Problems are not on servers, are on the shitty code, full of bugs

 

[Eeben]

im the onlyone still lagging?

 

[remi]

im the onlyone still lagging?

no.

 

[Darzil]

Plotted for about 2 hours tonight. Nothing very dodgy, except for the London router before the Opentransit one, which changed every 5 seconds, regular as clockwork.

Doesn't appear on a pingplot save, though.

Darzil

 

[Comos]

On my latest pingplot, which ran tonight, I got about 20-30ms on the one before the first opentransit hop. On the first opentransit one in london it went up to 100-110ms. It never really increased after the first OT. So 100-110 is a good ping I guess, didn't have any spikes tonight.
I was ready to pingplot with laptop when I was gonne lag but it didn't happen then. I suppose there's no point sending a plot with an average ping of 100, since that's pretty normal? Still strange that ping increases 4-5x when it jumps to opentransit though.

Gonne keep trying to record a pingplot on the moment I'm getting a lagspike again though.


pingplot image

 

[Darzil]

Always include errors on your plot (right click on plot, click on Show Lost Packet (Err) count). I have found they are far more indicative of lag than the time of the ping.

Darzil

 

[Necroscope]

But But hmmmm

Like last night, Did some PvEing ML5 Bg steps etc, Had no lag at all then ported to Frontier and booooooooooom laggy like hell, spikes and LDs in the group.

If now we assume that all GoA Internet traffic goes thru the same connection then wouldnt all zones lag?fluffle:

sounds like a server problem to me not a ISP one

 

[rynnor]

But But hmmmm

Like last night, Did some PvEing ML5 Bg steps etc, Had no lag at all then ported to Frontier and booooooooooom laggy like hell, spikes and LDs in the group.

If now we assume that all GoA Internet traffic goes thru the same connection then wouldnt all zones lag?fluffle:

sounds like a server problem to me not a ISP one

I was in the instanced catacombs zones and the spikes were pretty bad - start a fight - image freezes then i fast forward to end of the fight n pick up the loot ;P

Was on one of the french servers - Orcanie - and it seemed fine no lag spikes so I kinda wonder...

 

[Deepflame]

I've heard people are lagging on other MMOs too with servers based in Europe. So I guess the European internet just sucks these days. Maybe instead of zerging GOA HQ we should go to Brussels and bother the EU top?

 

[Ckiller]

No!!!! Send those ping plots to me (directly or via RightNow). I'll pass them on to the sysnet admins who will pass them on to Open Transit.

Please please please send them - you've done the hardwork of actually running them, just a couple of clicks more..

can we send via FH ?? Rightnow has never really worked for me tbh

 

[Outlander]

send via carrier pigeon