22-11-05 Constant lag spikes/LD

Gamah

Banned
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
13,042
Whats the problem this time, aliens abducted a router? Baguette fallen in a server fan? Monkeys wanking in the server room?

Just one problem after another these days.
 

remi

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
1,427
Second time in 5days our group had to logg due server being shit. May it be routers, corrupt data or whatever, so fucking tired of it.

Please fucking deal with the servers, GOA?
 

noaim

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
1,898
Yes this is starting to get pretty fucking boring, totally unplayable, day after day. Too bad there aint a way to make the majority of the players on english server cancel the subs at the same time, so something would happen, other than excuses.
 

MaditioN

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
1,361
friggin shit servers, should give us free days for this, unplayable.
 

xxManiacxx

Can't get enough of FH
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Jan 25, 2004
Messages
3,042
Yupp our RvR grp logged aswell today.

Logged yesterday and today because of unplayable server.
 

Chimaira

Can't get enough of FH
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Jan 21, 2004
Messages
4,462
remi said:
Second time in 5days our group had to logg due server being shit. May it be routers, corrupt data or whatever, so fucking tired of it.

Please fucking deal with the servers, GOA?

Agrees with Remi, Lucky I play on the US servers to :eek2:
 

chretien

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,079
For me it looks like the internet is b0rked.
Latency isn't too bad but there's a lot of random packet loss on the way to the servers.
I take it everyone who's whining about lag is already running a pingplot? Otherwise you're not going to achieve anything from whining if the problem isn't with the server.
 

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Puppet

Part of the furniture
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chretien said:
For me it looks like the internet is b0rked.
Latency isn't too bad but there's a lot of random packet loss on the way to the servers.
I take it everyone who's whining about lag is already running a pingplot? Otherwise you're not going to achieve anything from whining if the problem isn't with the server.

Same story as always, mass-LD's and mass lagspikes for pretty much everyone and peeps gonna blaim it on random-router near Mexico instead @ GOA servers?
 

chretien

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 24, 2003
Messages
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Puppet said:
Same story as always, mass-LD's and mass lagspikes for pretty much everyone and peeps gonna blaim it on random-router near Mexico instead @ GOA servers?
That's how the internet works. 'Pretty much everyone' is probably going through the same bunch of routers from the international backbone to the Goa server farm. If one of those has a problem or is under a lot of load then 'pretty much everyone' will get lag and LDs. All of that can happen without there needing to be any problem at Goa's end. From the data I've collected it looks like there's a lot of random packet loss in some big FT routers in France. Could be they arent talking nicely to my ISP, could be they are being hammered by something. I don't know and I'd guess only the techs responsible for that part of the Internet could tell you. Not Goa or anyone else connected to them.
 

necromania

Can't get enough of FH
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Sep 2, 2004
Messages
2,643
Gamah said:
Whats the problem this time, aliens abducted a router? Baguette fallen in a server fan? Monkeys wanking in the server room?

Just one problem after another these days.


i think its the monkeys wanking in the server room.

ive heard that should be pretty nasty to watch, maybe the servers couldnt take it ;(
 

Gear

Can't get enough of FH
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Apr 20, 2004
Messages
3,579
Amazing, it's like facing aoe stun in every fight and there's no immunity for it ^^
 

MaditioN

Can't get enough of FH
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Gear said:
Amazing, it's like facing aoe stun in every fight and there's no immunity for it ^^

indeed, sux to be on the recieving end :[
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
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Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
The lag you are getting is not coming from the servers or our network. Once again, it's problems in the general internet. If you want it to be sorted then get pingplotting and either send us the details or hassle your ISP with them.

Before I get the inevitable 'well I spoke to my ISP and they say there's no problems with my line' or 'I have 100MB internet and so it can't be a problem with my ISP' responses I'll clarify this. It's not a problem with your ISP. If you call your ISP and report lag they'll check the latency from your house to their servers and declare that everything is fine. The problem is the routing from your ISP to our network - which your ISP is also responsible for. If you contact your ISP you will have to explain this to them and most likely provide them with additional evidence in the form of pingplots.

There is a very limited amount that we can do about this problem. We can collect information and pass it on to whichever company is responsible for the router(s) causing the problem. Your ISP can also escalate consumer complaints and to be honest they are likely to have much more luck with that than we are.
 

eggy

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Feb 3, 2004
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Requiel said:
The lag you are getting is not coming from the servers or our network. Once again, it's problems in the general internet. If you want it to be sorted then get pingplotting and either send us the details or hassle your ISP with them.

Before I get the inevitable 'well I spoke to my ISP and they say there's no problems with my line' or 'I have 100MB internet and so it can't be a problem with my ISP' responses I'll clarify this. It's not a problem with your ISP. If you call your ISP and report lag they'll check the latency from your house to their servers and declare that everything is fine. The problem is the routing from your ISP to our network - which your ISP is also responsible for. If you contact your ISP you will have to explain this to them and most likely provide them with additional evidence in the form of pingplots.

There is a very limited amount that we can do about this problem. We can collect information and pass it on to whichever company is responsible for the router(s) causing the problem. Your ISP can also escalate consumer complaints and to be honest they are likely to have much more luck with that than we are.

Our ISPs? Last night our group consisted of people in many different countries, all getting lag spikes at the same time (although people "came out" of lag at different times; sometimes different people LDed). We're all on different ISPs, and seems everyone on the server lags at the same time (from the mass /as OMG LAG spam).

Now, that doesn't sound like an ISP problem, but more like a France Telecom routing problem (if not a network/server problem @ GOA).
 

statued

Loyal Freddie
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Oct 21, 2004
Messages
970
how on earth could it be that its ISP problems...just as eggy said its happening to most of people from europe and also the majority of LDs that accor are out in New Frontiers. last few nights while playing in lan cafe and the LDs accured only the people that were in NF went LD and the 2 lads that were in TOA didnt. another coincidence?
 

scorge

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Requiel said:
Before I get the inevitable 'well I spoke to my ISP and they say there's no problems with my line' or 'I have 100MB internet and so it can't be a problem with my ISP' responses I'll clarify this. It's not a problem with your ISP. If you call your ISP and report lag they'll check the latency from your house to their servers and declare that everything is fine. The problem is the routing from your ISP to our network - which your ISP is also responsible for. If you contact your ISP you will have to explain this to them and most likely provide them with additional evidence in the form of pingplots.

There is a very limited amount that we can do about this problem. We can collect information and pass it on to whichever company is responsible for the router(s) causing the problem. Your ISP can also escalate consumer complaints and to be honest they are likely to have much more luck with that than we are.


sounds like a lot of work just to play a game, when i come home from work i just want to turn on the PC load DAOC up, i dont want to spend most of the evening lobbying ISPs throughout the world to get my routing sorted. Its times like these that people take the path of least resistance and play something else.

:m00:
 

Zede

Part of the furniture
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Jan 30, 2004
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Our grp last night consisted of people from 5 different contries, thousands of miles apart....all lagging at the same time. ISP my arse.


Requiel, them froggies are spinning you a yarn.. Spoke to my m8 playing WoW and one playing Battlefield 2 - no problems there.............maybe not be GoA, but it is something to do with zee lazy french :clap:

One thinks back to the end of Monty Pythons Holy Grail......oh how they go it so right regarding what the french think of us........!!
 

SkarIronfist

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Dec 22, 2003
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I think people need to appreciate how the internet works.

You go from your pc to your ISP. They then route you to the major hubs in your country. So for instance, alot of traffic goes on the BT core network (in the UK). Then it will jump onto other hubs in other countries.

So in my case.

Starts at My PC -> My Router -> My Cable Modem -> Then 4 - 5 steps to get out of the Telewest Network -> Then to one of UK Hubs (Say Telehouse in the docklands) -> To France and probably onto France Telecom backbore -> couple more hops to Wanadoo Network (Division of France Telecom) -> Then about 5 more hops down to Pyrdwen.

On each of those hubs/hops are routers of various levels of capacity. If someone changes a routing priority of any one step, or you have a major hardware failure, then your data will go via another major hub to go around the problem.

The number of points of failure is very large and even with levels of redundancy, that you can't imagine. Shit happens. Report the problem to your ISP who will then report it up the line, etc etc etc.

So when ever you do a tracert, each ip address (in most cases) is some where that can fail, have an routing changed, have a new piece of hardware added (Then not setup correctly).
 

Corran

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Why the fuck are you all saying "it not my ISP"... he didnt say that.

He said it a general internet problem, aka a router that people go through to get to the server. Does it matter the country in? No, because you most likely going to be patched through the same routers at some point, especially as you get closer to the target (GoA servers). Does it matter your ISP? No because you still be patched through said routers.

But hey, dont read what is said, just read the words you want!
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
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Apr 21, 2004
Messages
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Requiel said:
I'll clarify this. It's not a problem with your ISP.
Your ISP isn't causing the lag. As you can see it's affecting people from all over Europe - except those connecting from France. Let me explain again how the internet works.

You don't connect directly to our servers. You have a route which will pass through many different hubs between your ISP's servers and our network. These routers are owned by a variety of very large companies. Generally speaking, if you're trying to reach a foreign network you'll connect to one of several international backbones which carry traffic between different countries, once you reach the international hub closest to the destination network, you'll then be routed through a series of smaller, local hubs until you reach our network. It's very likely that although the overall route will be different for people connecting from different countries or ISPs, the last few hops will be the same. If there's a problem with one of these last few hubs then people will experience lag/LDs etc even though they are connecting from very different places. People close to the server will connect through an entirely different route through local hubs and so won't be affected by the problems that foreign players are experiencing. For instance, I was playing last night with my personal characters and didn't experience any lag at all even though people in my guild were.

Routing is the responsibility of your ISP - even though they aren't directly responsible for the hubs that are causing problems. There are escalation agreements in place between backbone providers and ISPs so that ISPs can escalate reports of routing problems and expect to get them fixed fairly quickly. Service providers (like us) don't. We can report it to whoever is responsible, but they won't be obliged to do anything about it.
 

Sparx

Cheeky Fucknugget
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Sep 30, 2005
Messages
8,059
well best way to solve it, we start a zerg (hopefully no Lds) and relic the servers to UK, let ze french have lag ld for awhile till the zerg it back
 

scorge

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Requiel said:
Routing is the responsibility of your ISP - even though they aren't directly responsible for the hubs that are causing problems. There are escalation agreements in place between backbone providers and ISPs so that ISPs can escalate reports of routing problems and expect to get them fixed fairly quickly.

We all know that ISPs will do very little unless they get quiet a few reports. Most ISPs will just think that the users doesn't know what they are talking about, and some will just wait and see if it goes away.

A lot of players over the world route to DAOc in europe, since most of these players have differant ISPs the problem reports will be spread around, and as such most ISPs will do very little.

Requiel said:
Service providers (like us) don't. We can report it to whoever is responsible, but they won't be obliged to do anything about it.

Interesting you brought up service providers like GoA, have you thought of having alternative hostings sites outside france if you keep getting routing problems. Hold on you cant really do that as it will cost you money, probably more money than you would make from the customers, so it wouldn't be profitable.

Its a pity that since your a service provider you dont post any service level agreements to the customers..... ?

As they say shit falls downwards, and customers appear to be at the bottom...

:m00:
 

inqy

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
458
from work I get this:

Code:
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  BLAH BLAH
  2     2 ms     1 ms     1 ms  BLAH BLAH
  3     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  lutn-lam-2-s517-0.inet.ntl.com [62.252.92.177]
  4     4 ms     3 ms     5 ms  lutn-t2core-a-pos411.inet.ntl.com [62.252.64.181]
  5     9 ms    19 ms    10 ms  pop-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.185]
  6     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  win-bb-b-so-500-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.202]
  7    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  po4-0.brsbb1.Bristol.opentransit.net [193.251.254.145]
  8    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  po8-0.loncr3.London.opentransit.net [193.251.243.37]
  9    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  po7-0.pascr3.Paris.opentransit.net [193.251.242.17]
 10    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  po9-0.pascr1.Paris.opentransit.net [193.251.129.61]
 11    18 ms    17 ms    18 ms  wanadooportails-1.GW.opentransit.net [193.251.251.54]
 12    18 ms    19 ms    18 ms  193.252.122.14
 13    19 ms    19 ms    18 ms  193.252.123.177

Trace complete.

So all I need is an NTL leased line at home and I'd be sorted.
 

Thorwyn

FH is my second home
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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
4,752
There we go again. Nobody is responsible and everybody is pointing at someone else. GoA says "Our network is fine", my ISP says "Your connection is fine", OT says "Dón´t fuquing bóthere ús with la emailez, or we will fuquing blóquez your IP".
Took month to solve the last lag-session. Any bets how long it´s gonna take this time?
 

Darzil

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Messages
2,651
Thorwyn[B&Q] said:
There we go again. Nobody is responsible and everybody is pointing at someone else. GoA says "Our network is fine", my ISP says "Your connection is fine", OT says "Dón´t fuquing bóthere ús with la emailez, or we will fuquing blóquez your IP".
Took month to solve the last lag-session. Any bets how long it´s gonna take this time?

Except that GOA also said, send us ping plots, and we'll lobby the routing companies.

Hope you're all doing so !

(I did, but three bits of bad lag in 3 hours doesn't sound like what you folks got, and I didn't send it on.)

Darzil
 

Comos

Loyal Freddie
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May 4, 2004
Messages
937
This is the opentransit scenario all over again. And if I remember we all stopped having lag after a post on the goa site that they replaced a router ...

:D
 

Zede

Part of the furniture
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Jan 30, 2004
Messages
3,584
DaoC Customer :
Any Chance the servers will get fixed ?
GoA Rep:
Mind your own business!
DaoC Customer:
If you will not tell us, we shall take the GoA offices by force!
GoA Rep:
You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottom, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called DoaC customer, you and all your silly English k-nnnnniggets. Thpppppt! Thppt! Thppt!
DoaC Customer :
What a strange person.
Another Customer :
Now look here, my good man--
GoA Rep :
I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
DaoC Customer :
Is there someone else up there we could talk to?
GoA Rep :
No. Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!
[sniff]
DaoC Customer :
Now, this is your last chance. I've been more than reasonable.
GoA Rep :
(Fetchez la vache.)
Other GoA Rep:
Quoi?
GoA Rep :
(Fetchez la vache!)
[mooo]
DaoC Customer :
If you do not agree to my commands, then I shall--
[twong]
[mooooooo]
Jesus Christ!
Leet Fg :
Christ!
[thud]
Ah! Ohh!
Straef:
Right! Charge!
Breon Zerg :
Charge!
[mayhem]
GoA Rep :
Hey, this one is for your mother! There you go.
[mayhem]
Other GoA Rep :
And this one's for your dad!
:
Run away!
Steveh :
Run away!
GoA Rep:
Thppppt!
GoA Rep(s):
[taunting]
Arethir:
Fiends! I'll tear them apart!
Arethir:
No, no. No, no.
 

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