Politics 2024/25 General Election Voting Intention (2022)

[Scouse]

Plaid Cymru doimg what welsh nationalists do.

Woman ran a bnb for years, wants to retire so converted the top two floors of her home to self-contained flats with kitchens for self-catering lets.

Council has assessed her home and counts it as three different properties and now, alongside the council tax she pays on her house, she also has to pay two lots of 300% council tax for the rest of her house.

Criccieth woman calls second home tax 'nightmare' but others say rules vital

Sally Howdle does not understand how she has ended up owning two second homes which attract a hefty bill.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Gwadien]

Plaid Cymru doimg what welsh nationalists do.

Woman ran a bnb for years, wants to retire so converted the top two floors of her home to self-contained flats with kitchens for self-catering lets.

Council has assessed her home and counts it as three different properties and now, alongside the council tax she pays on her house, she also has to pay two lots of 300% council tax for the rest of her house.

Criccieth woman calls second home tax 'nightmare' but others say rules vital

Sally Howdle does not understand how she has ended up owning two second homes which attract a hefty bill.

www.bbc.co.uk

Pretty good for the Welsh though.

Pretty easy to see why they're doing it, their main competition is saying stfu you're British, it's easy to see why they'll continue down this route.

We'll probably see the SNP do something similar.

 

[Raven]

Plaid Cymru doimg what welsh nationalists do.

Woman ran a bnb for years, wants to retire so converted the top two floors of her home to self-contained flats with kitchens for self-catering lets.

Council has assessed her home and counts it as three different properties and now, alongside the council tax she pays on her house, she also has to pay two lots of 300% council tax for the rest of her house.

Criccieth woman calls second home tax 'nightmare' but others say rules vital

Sally Howdle does not understand how she has ended up owning two second homes which attract a hefty bill.

www.bbc.co.uk

Woman forced to pay appropriate rates on revenue stream.

 

[Scouse]

Pretty good for the Welsh though.

Really not.

For a start, lots of Welsh people are in this position. It's not moving the needle enough on house prices - in the worst affected areas (say Barmouth, that was beginning to prosper but is now going backwards) - they've dropped 20% - which means fuck all to the locals who need massive house price drops - like way more than half.

Meanwhile, any local that wants to leave is in negative equity. Businesses are going down the pan. Desparately needed external money is staying clear as people aren't buying - and locals still can't buy because they simply can't afford some of the cheapest housing in the country (of which there's fucking loads, empty, available).

Any kids that have half a brain are leaving because there's no well-paying jobs.

The whole thing is lose-lose. It's impoverishing whole towns.

The fact is - huge swathes of rural & coastal Wales are so remote that their primary income (if not farming) is tourism. Another source of wealth is retirees buying houses that have fallen into delapidated states (because the locals can't afford to maintain them) - and they spend their lifelong savings on keeping the local trades in business.

 

[Scouse]

Woman forced to pay appropriate rates on revenue stream.

That would be income tax.

She converted bits of her home so she didn't have to serve breakfast to holidaymakers into her 80's - and her council tax will have gone from £3000/pa to £21,000p/a. (Because hers, plus two lots of triple - for the same house).

AND income tax.

That's theft. She'll be struggling to put food on her own table at that rate - for converting her home from BnB to self-catering.

This isn't millionaires we're talking about. It's average joes.

 

[Raven]

Sure, why not?

Hate crime prosecutions to be fast-tracked after antisemitic attacks

The director of public prosecutions has told prosecutors in England and Wales to bring charges more quickly.

www.bbc.co.uk

So long as everything is classed equally...which ofc it will be!

 

[Scouse]

So long as everything is classed equally...which ofc it will be!

Hate crime (i.e. abusive words) prosecutions are likely to be 'tried' under our new jury-less system.

So, go on a march, say words that Starmer has deemed antisemitic (whereas, it may well be just anti-Israel, but the PM's a publically signed-up zionist...) and you get arrested, thrown into clinky by the state.

Wonderful thought-crime world that Labour are creating eh? Say that you think Israel is an inherently racist apartheid state and you may well be locked up for it - without a jury to make your plea to.

And remember, juries can aquit on issues of conscience. The state won't.

 

[Embattle]

Zack Polanski says he was wrong to claim he was a Red Cross spokesman

The Green Party leader tells the BBC he hosted fundraisers for the charity but had not used the right word when describing his role.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Scouse]

Shyster

 

[Scouse]

So, who's gonna be the next PM when Starmer gets booted out?

 

[Scouse]

Or do you think Labour know they're shot, so they may as well stick with their soon-to-be completely mandate-less majority and pass laws that never featured in any manifesto to their hearts" content until 2029?

I mean, he's expanding hate speech laws, cracking down on peaceful protest, writing laws allowing them to police university protests (which are largely anti-Israel) and all this on the back of the lowest share of the popular vote at a GE in British history.

I don't think Starmer ever gave a fuck about that. And his MP's might realise this is their last chance to pass the laws they'll never have a chance to pass again. Even if there's zero mandate - or worse, like in wales, a specific vote against them and their policies.

 

[Ormorof]

Does seem a bit of a poisoned chalice, Burnham seems the obvious candidate but if he joins midway through the government mired in this mess he might not achieve anything. Risky though, what if someone else takes over and actually does useful things (slim chance but there is a chance)

 

[Raven]

Starmer needs to go by lunchtime. They need to change course immediately, and do what they said they would do in their manifesto, it is existential for the Labour Party. It's probably far too late, so our only hope is that Reform continue to make a complete mess of local government, but even that probably won't make a difference because of tHe BoAts!111

 

[DaGaffer]

Starmer needs to go by lunchtime. They need to change course immediately, and do what they said they would do in their manifesto, it is existential for the Labour Party. It's probably far too late, so our only hope is that Reform continue to make a complete mess of local government, but even that probably won't make a difference because of tHe BoAts!111

"What they said they would do in their manifesto"? What was that? Because I seem to remember it was pretty much "do fuck all, just don't be the Tories".

The whole Labour victory was just a protest vote.

 

[Scouse]

If it was a protest vote then more people would have voted for them. But hardly anyone did - it was the biggest landslide on the tiniest turnout for a party ever.

And if you read their manifesto, they're either failing to do what they said, or actively doing the opposite. But the important stuff they're doing was never in their manifesto.

We've still got 'em until 2029. It doesn't really matter if Starmer goes. It's the type of person we've got in power in Westminster that matters: well-meaning authoritarian idiots.

 

[BloodOmen]

So, who's gonna be the next PM when Starmer gets booted out?

Andy Burnham I reckon, though, there are complications with that one.


David Lammy? Nope, after his shit handling of the prisons and prisoners going missing he'd be an instant dislike by the public so won't be him

Rachel Reeves? she's hated by the public so nope

Wes Streeting? maybe?

Angela Rayner? I fucking hope not, she's a walking hypocritical disaster


After the absolute battering Labour just took in the locals, they need a figurehead people can take a liking too, not someone who people will hate immediately and they've only got 3 years to sort their shit out




One thing is certain though, Starmer MUST resign because in no universe can that party gain ground again while he's leading it.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Scouse]

View attachment 51883

This is just what happened with Brexit, and what's happening now: dismiss people who think differently from yourselves by calling them thick.

You don't get that many people voting for Reform just because they're either thick or racist.

This is what the left keeps on doing, and why they keep losing ground. They're not even intellectually engaging with the very real problems that huge swathes of people are experiencing. Their concerns are being dismissed under the guise of calling them racist or thick. So the left is getting a beating, Trump wins in America, Reform wins in the UK. Despite what they say about the right in Europe after Hungary, they're on the rise, not the retreat.

And it's the left that's offering no better alternative. Instead, in the UK, they're doing what they always do - focus on banning what people are saying, rather than focussing on improving the quality of people's lives.

 

[Deebs]

Taken from BBC News

"I'm not going to walk away and plunge the country into chaos," he says, after the first results in England showed losses for Labour.

He points to Labour's landslide victory in the July 2024 general election: "I led our party to that victory, that is a five-year mandate to change the country."

Starmer says that "in the coming days", he'll "set out the further steps" that Labour will take to convince the electorate.

Asked if he will stand in the next general election, he replies: "Yes. It was a five-year term I was elected to do, I intend to see that through."

So he won a landslide victory in 2024, isn't this looking like a landslide move away from him?

 

[DaGaffer]

If it was a protest vote then more people would have voted for them. But hardly anyone did - it was the biggest landslide on the tiniest turnout for a party ever.

And if you read their manifesto, they're either failing to do what they said, or actively doing the opposite. But the important stuff they're doing was never in their manifesto.

We've still got 'em until 2029. It doesn't really matter if Starmer goes. It's the type of person we've got in power in Westminster that matters: well-meaning authoritarian idiots.

Not voting is also a protest vote.

Seriously, what exactly were people expecting from Labour? Their manifesto literally wrote them into a corner where they couldn't do anything to materially improve the economy. It was actually pointed out before the election that they could have offered some real political change but they didn't because they didn't want to take any risks in their pursuit of power for its own sake. And that's because politicians don't want to scare the horses with any harsh truths.

So now you're going to get Reform. Not because they're better at anything (I mean seriously, look at the sheer incoherence of their policies that are just moon on a stick bullshit with a coat of racism) but because the UK public is in a race to the bottom of political incompetence and venality. I mean just look at the choices; Starmer, Badenoch, Davy, Farage, Polanski. I wouldn't trust one of the cunts.

Reform won't be better. The Greens won't be better. And the continual self-delusion of the British public will crack on. Monster Raving Loony for 2033. Slogan: "When you've literally tried everything else, why not?"

 

[BloodOmen]

This is just what happened with Brexit, and what's happening now: dismiss people who think differently from yourselves by calling them thick.

You don't get that many people voting for Reform just because they're either thick or racist.

This is what the left keeps on doing, and why they keep losing ground. They're not even intellectually engaging with the very real problems that huge swathes of people are experiencing. Their concerns are being dismissed under the guise of calling them racist or thick. So the left is getting a beating, Trump wins in America, Reform wins in the UK. Despite what they say about the right in Europe after Hungary, they're on the rise, not the retreat.

And it's the left that's offering no better alternative. Instead, in the UK, they're doing what they always do - focus on banning what people are saying, rather than focussing on improving the quality of people's lives.

Going to disagree with you there, if you're voting for a party that has publicly said they will remove us from the court of human rights so they can deport migrants while not realising the very same court also protects workers rights among many other things - you are thick, its just that simple.

As for other parties not offering a better alternative - that part I do agree with, that doesn't mean you should shit in your hands and clap though, does it?



to name only a fraction of what the ECHR covers

Key areas where workers’ rights are protected include:

• Freedom of association and trade unions
  Under Article 11, workers have rights to form and join trade unions, bargain collectively, and sometimes strike.
  Important cases include:
  • Demir and Baykara v. Turkey
  • Wilson, National Union of Journalists and Others v. United Kingdom
• Protection from discrimination at work
  Article 14 can apply to unequal treatment based on sex, religion, political opinion, disability, and other protected grounds when linked to another Convention right.
• Privacy in the workplace
  Article 8 protects private life, including limits on employee monitoring and surveillance.
  A leading case is:
  • Bărbulescu v. Romania
• Freedom of expression for employees
  Workers, including civil servants and whistleblowers, may be protected when speaking on matters of public interest.
• Forced labour protections
  Article 4 prohibits slavery and forced labour.

What the court does not generally do:

• It does not guarantee a broad right to employment, minimum wage, paid holidays, or detailed labor standards.
• Those are more directly addressed by:
  • the International Labour Organization
  • the European Committee of Social Rights under the European Social Charter
  • national labor courts and legislation
  • some protections under European Union law

Vote Reform and all that is basically going to disappear - Now tell me, if you knowingly vote for that that you aren't a thick cunt.

 

[Scouse]

Not voting is also a protest vote.

It was a low turnout, yes, but not disastrously low historically.

It was simply "conservatives are finished".

But not voting isn't a protest. It's simply a reflection of a lack of engagement. And that's prompted by the alternatives on offer.

Seriously, what exactly were people expecting from Labour?

Ignoring the economics bit: To stick to what they said in the manifesto? To "act Labour" and not start locking up peaceful protestors and out-Torying the Tories when it came to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and definitely not vocally supporting collective punishment and war crimes? Not to mention the spectacually backfired pitch to ID cards (again).

The amount of non-manifesto own-goals has been staggering. And now they're going to be granting powers to police student protests (because they're largely pro-palestinian and anti-Israel). But the reforms they're making are wide-ranging and absolutely not manifesto commitments.

Quiet failure would be better than what they're doing.

So now you're going to get Reform. Not because they're better at anything (I mean seriously, look at the sheer incoherence of their policies that are just moon on a stick bullshit with a coat of racism) but because the UK public is in a race to the bottom of political incompetence and venality. I mean just look at the choices; Starmer, Badenoch, Davy, Farage, Polanski. I wouldn't trust one of the cunts.

Reform won't be better. The Greens won't be better. And the continual self-delusion of the British public will crack on. Monster Raving Loony for 2033. Slogan: "When you've literally tried everything else, why not?"

Reform is just another "fuck it" button, like Brexit was.

The British public is crying out for competent choices. But there are none.

I didn't vote yesterday - it's Plaid Cymru or Reform here. I'd take Reform over Plaid. But fuck no! Then there's the greens, who have been my "protest vote" - but with the boob whisperer in charge I can't do that. The Tories? Lol. Then that leaves Labour - who, on current performance, I'd put at the very bottom of that pile. Not because of what they think, but how they go about bringing their particular version of utopia. Their actions.

 

[Embattle]

If we had a vote in my area yesterday, I wouldn't of voted, which would be the first time ever since I was legally able to.

 

[Raven]

If we had a vote in my area yesterday, I wouldn't of voted, which would be the first time ever since I was legally able to.

Move of a ballot spoiler myself, though not in some time.

 

[Scouse]

[support Reform and] you are thick

The Welsh leader of Reform just made the point that they're not going to call anyone names during his victory speech.

Your thinking there is demonstrably wrong. You can point at single issues that you feel passionately about and call people idiots if they don't feel the same way as you about them - but that's just it, they simply don't feel that way, and they've spent years being ignored, their lives getting demonstrably worse, yadda yadda yadda...

The working class are voting Reform, not Labour. Labour - the party of the working class. In the birthplace of the NHS. In a place they've held as solid as a rock since Wales had it's own government.

And the people know there's no jobs, that they're the worst performing educational system in the UK, that the NHS in Wales is the worst performing NHS in the UK.

And rather than fix any of that, Labour's playing social politics. The Democrats are the same in the US - ignoring their voter base, who turned to Trump. (And early on they were skeptical of big federal government too - so you could say they betrayed what they were historically about).

In Wales, as predicted, it's Plaid Cymru and Reform (looks to be in that order). Two nationalist parties. It's just pick your nationalism.

Labour is nowhere - and it's this sort of thinking that's done it. It's all their own fault...

 

[BloodOmen]

The Welsh leader of Reform just made the point that they're not going to call anyone names during his victory speech.

Your thinking there is demonstrably wrong. You can point at single issues that you feel passionately about and call people idiots if they don't feel the same way as you about them - but that's just it, they simply don't feel that way, and they've spent years being ignored, their lives getting demonstrably worse, yadda yadda yadda...

The working class are voting Reform, not Labour. Labour - the party of the working class. In the birthplace of the NHS. In a place they've held as solid as a rock since Wales had it's own government.

And the people know there's no jobs, that they're the worst performing educational system in the UK, that the NHS in Wales is the worst performing NHS in the UK.

And rather than fix any of that, Labour's playing social politics. The Democrats are the same in the US - ignoring their voter base, who turned to Trump. (And early on they were skeptical of big federal government too - so you could say they betrayed what they were historically about).

In Wales, as predicted, it's Plaid Cymru and Reform (looks to be in that order). Two nationalist parties. It's just pick your nationalism.

Labour is nowhere - and it's this sort of thinking that's done it. It's all their own fault...

I mean, I agree with you on one thing, a lot of people voting Reform aren't doing it because they're racist cartoon villains twirling moustaches. Most are angry, skint, frustrated, ignored, and sick of Labour/Tories doing absolutely fuck all to improve their lives.

Fair enough.

But "people are angry" doesn't magically turn Reform into a good answer.

People being fed up explains why Reform is growing. It doesn't automatically make the policies sensible.

That's the bit I think you're skipping over.

You say Labour's abandoned the working class, honestly, I agree. Wales being in the state it's in after decades of Labour control is hardly a glowing advert. NHS is struggling, wages are shit, infrastructure's stagnant, people feel left behind. No argument there.

But if your response to that is voting for a party whose big solutions are basically:

blame migrants

leave international protections

culture war everything

and hope Nigel Farage somehow becomes the messiah of the working class

...then yeah, I still think that's fucking stupid.

Not because people are poor or uneducated. Because the actual policies don't solve the problems people are angry about.

And on the ECHR point specifically, this is exactly what I mean. People hear "deport migrants easier" and clap like seals, without stopping to think that rights frameworks protect more than just migrants governments don't like this week.

Governments don't usually remove rights in neat little isolated boxes. Once you start weakening legal protections for groups people don't like, that precedent doesn't magically stop there.

So no, I don't think every Reform voter is evil. I think a lot of them are desperate, pissed off, politically homeless, and voting emotionally.

I just also think being angry at the establishment doesn't suddenly make every anti establishment answer intelligent.

 

[Scouse]

But "people are angry" doesn't magically turn Reform into a good answer.

People being fed up explains why Reform is growing. It doesn't automatically make the policies sensible.

That's the bit I think you're skipping over.

I'm not skipping over it at all.

This is about options. If you vote for the same thing, you're going to get the same shit.

If you vote Labour or Conservative, you're going to get Labour or Conservative. Instead Welsh Labour voters have voted Plaid, and welsh Conservative voters have voted Reform.

But really: They've voted for Change.

This is where the rest of your argument falls down - if you are desparate, and you're being offered "more of the same", or "something different - anything different" you vote different - and fuck the consequences. You gamble. And it's not dumb, it's logical - because the status quo isn't working for people any more.

Fuck policies. That's why this is happening. And voting more labour would be measurable madness.

 

[Scouse]

I mean it's not going to work. Plaid are wankers (well meaning wankers). Reform are wankers (in their own way, well meaning wankers).

Politics is middle-management for an antidemocractic, technocratic economic system that we're utterly captured by and slaves to.

 

[Raven]

Our local Tory council had, and has some pretty decent folk in it, but they are doomed, because of the national party. Maybe it's time to separate the two.

Reform now, talking about bin collections every 3 weeks now, after putting green bins up to £69 (nice) a year, on top of the highest tax increase that they could legally charge. They are shitting the bed hard.

 

[Scouse]

70 quid a month just for the fucking bins?

Where's their economies of scale? Or is that the kickback to the criminal organisations that run our refuse disposal?