1.83a - Paladin Love!

[Lejemorder]

It has always been the idea to make things "Equal but different".

It's equal if all realms have celerity. It's different how they have it.

Midgard: Castable short duration buff on Healers
Albion: Insta cast chant, high power consumption on Paladins.

Equal but different.

(Before the hibs go crazy, let us wait and see what 1.83 holds in later notes).



Please... not on Valkyries. Bad enough that Mid stealthers are forced to run two bots. We do not want to be forced to run three bots. Spec AF needs to go in the Augmentation line in one of our two bot classes, period.




Which is excactly how Aug healers are today.

Healers got 1000+10% range on their Celerity. They benefit the most from -not- being right on top of the tanks, so it can be a dangerous business to go that close to deliver the celerity.

Paladin's -can- function in the melee train and thus their range is shorter. In return they will in a common spec have better celerity. It's a huge trade off for a healer to go 44 Aug, while it's less of a trade off for a Paladin to go 44 Chants.

Hence, most Mid groups will the 30% celerity, while Alb melee groups more commonly will have the 37% celerity.

atleast the healer dont go oom after 40 sec (if only 1 paladin he need to twist)

 

[Azathrim]

atleast the healer dont go oom after 40 sec (if only 1 paladin he need to twist)

True, however Celerity is not free for the healer either. The level 44 Celerity costs about half of what a level 30 Spreadheal costs.

 

[Notirt]

Now give paladins stoicism and charge to so i can keep up with the merc assist train

 

[Cemeterygates]

Now give paladins stoicism and charge to so i can keep up with the merc assist train

lol...actualy...fuck it...give chamipoins stoicism..an charge...an plate armor..an spec AF....atleast from a hib PoV...u albs have no idea on what u have...

 

[Wild]

starting to really feel sick reading this

i cant belive ppl from mid and hib moaning about albs now being overpowered now pala get this boost ...

albs pop has always been > then hib or mid and imo that why albs fall far short of unity and abliitys in grps coz in a zerg numbers will win

game was ment to be fighting on mass scale and so imo mythic nerfed albs coz they had greater numbers so that the game "seemed more even"


dont belive me ?

just look at the new classes..

Warlock / Banshie / heretic LOL !

WOW pala's finially geting some long overdue love and ppl cryng out . THE SCAM OF IT > WE NEVER GONNE WIN VS ALBS NOW ..

if it wasnt for the friends i have on alb id of droped alb LONG ago and roll mid or hib .. just look at the pop on glastenbury...


0-o we get spec AF .... its so unfair .. is that your best aurgument ? LOL

The fact bonedancers instant life tap/ PD can be banelords and have access to TWF is just a joke imo ..
i gota big list on what i feel is unfair and makes hib and mid much more powerfull but mythic is doing a big class overhall .. so im guessing hib and mid will also get love 1.83b ? 1.84 ?

end of it is pala's at last can get grps again wtg mythic

 

[Andrilyn]

Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Personally I have played all 3 realms in RvR and atleast till rr5+ and when I play Mid or Hib I really hardly notice the lack of spec AF so I really don't understand all the whine about it that has been going for like 3+ years already now

When balancing the game it's of course easiest to give all 3 realms the same spells because that would be a 100% balance but that would also take that bit of uniqueness away from playing a different realm but if all 3 realms had completely different spells and abilities then it would be near impossible to balance it.
I do find it a shame that both the Valkyri and Pally got the same chants would have liked a bit more uniqueness but in the end you have to ask yourself what do you value more? All realms being unique or a game that's nicely balanced.

 

[Azathrim]

Personally I have played all 3 realms in RvR and atleast till rr5+ and when I play Mid or Hib I really hardly notice the lack of spec AF so I really don't understand all the whine about it that has been going for like 3+ years already now

In visible combat it's less of an issue.

In solo melee (most commonly stealthers) spec AF is incredible important. It is to the level, that it more or less determines the fight beforehand if one of the stealthers lack spec AF.

And yes, there are charges that can be used. It is however frustrating to burn gold using charges, while knowing albs get a free buff that is even better than what your charge does for you. Not to mention ofcourse, the annoyince of trying to use battler and failing because buffed AF within the last two minutes....

 

[Lyrra]

Please... not on Valkyries. Bad enough that Mid stealthers are forced to run two bots. We do not want to be forced to run three bots. Spec AF needs to go in the Augmentation line in one of our two bot classes, period.

That's crazy. Nobody is "forced" to have bots.

If you feel compelled to have bots to "compete", then you want to examine your play style...or roll on Glastonbury.

I hate the "we have to have this to compete" attitude. That attitude ruins the game. It's the same attitude that makes people reject certain classes for groups, citing "oh you can't join as we prefer class xxx so we can own".

I wish people would stop whining and enjoy the game.

 

[Shike]

Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Personally I have played all 3 realms in RvR and atleast till rr5+ and when I play Mid or Hib I really hardly notice the lack of spec AF so I really don't understand all the whine about it that has been going for like 3+ years already now

When balancing the game it's of course easiest to give all 3 realms the same spells because that would be a 100% balance but that would also take that bit of uniqueness away from playing a different realm but if all 3 realms had completely different spells and abilities then it would be near impossible to balance it.
I do find it a shame that both the Valkyri and Pally got the same chants would have liked a bit more uniqueness but in the end you have to ask yourself what do you value more? All realms being unique or a game that's nicely balanced.

agree pretty much, I also played all realms quite actively and find them to be competative with the right people.

One huge difference imo is that PuGs from hib>mid>alb overall though due to the easy groupbuilds in hib and mid compared to alb.

It is also about the setup aswell.. we run midgrp with warrior, warrior, zerker, RM, skald, shaman and two healers atm, hardly FoTM. All realms have easy setups and harder setups, cant really generalize so much in DAoC anymore imo.

(oh and try hitting as a tank on an alb, you will notice the SpeccAF then! not everyone runs around with SpeccAFcharge)

 

[Azathrim]

That's crazy. Nobody is "forced" to have bots.

If you feel compelled to have bots to "compete", then you want to examine your play style...or roll on Glastonbury.

Whatever dude. By the way, mind giving me a schedule of when you play your stealther and aproximately where you run? :touch:

 

[Wild]

I hate the "we have to have this to compete" attitude. That attitude ruins the game. It's the same attitude that makes people reject certain classes for groups, citing "oh you can't join as we prefer class xxx so we can own".

for me what you susgest would be a perfect game ..

"we are one short .. grab the necro .. or grab the tic.. hey fek it lets take the pala (at moment ofc) "

there is a reason for rejecting classes that dont opt a grp, the reason is no1 likes being steamrolled again and again and again and again.

for me i would LOVE to beable to invite any toons and win a few fights but in the real world of daoc that isnt possible.

and if i got rolled every run i would just go a pve as sadly most ppl who have come to love their class and cant get rvr grps do.

I wish people would stop whining and enjoy the game.

i wouldnt enjoy the game if i never won a rvr fight. if for you its just being out there even if you die every time then your a bigger sport than me just try to find another 7 ppl with the same mindset and have fun eating dirt

not trying to be funny i would show the upmost respect to any1 who can go out there die again and again and still enjoy the game



the main reason is the for the problem is people love to win and with that in mind all 3 realms have had a close look at what classes suit each other best and can win best .. these groups have won and won and won and so now are high RR and makes it even harder for a less than opted grp to compeate.

i totally agree with you about enjoying the game but most people enjoy wining ..

the first year on daoc was the best imo i used to want a scout in grp thowen was great coz of his empthay and my sorc had loads of quickness

 

[Vladamir]

Oh god...mental image overload...hot Half-Ogre-on-Avalonian action!

Avalonian pally eh?

 

[Bahumat]

To all the people who DONT play a paladin yet feel they have reason to whine about the patch.

Nothing's as it seems, the so called Love is not that great and its not including most things we (paladin community) have asked for.

I dont wanna get into a mass debate about this as i will be posting all day. In short 1 huge flaw is the power consumption is a knightmare on the celerity (15% to switch on, does not cost anything to leave running), we get free end regen on the first tick so if we are able to turn this on and off after 1 tick we will save power (most people dont as they are busy BG, slamming, ml buff shearing, grappling, playing end for the tanks, tri resists against the spell damage).

For us to use Celerity its 350 range so its only really a benefit for the 2hander's, S/S paladins are defensive so they are with the support/casters, the MA is never near them so instead of "ffs shit end range not regening the tanks" its gonna be "ffs shit celerity not helping the MA"

The Ablative is awful, most paladin's dont go 50 chants, our tri resist offers better protection (we can twist both) but then thats even more buttons we have to bash!

When Celerity is cast we have to be out of combat, i dont mean we cant be getting hit, its like a end pot etc, you just have to put your weapon away and wait a few seconds.

Mythic have got some good idea's but i dont think they executed them correctly, our chant line is piss poor in today's RVR (heal chant to low, dmg add is pointless if you have a thuerg, AF is never used as people prefer cleric spec AF).

All i seem to be hearing is "omfg they get haste and end they gonna pwn so much, alb so overpowered"

But you dont hear anything about our pointless piety rising stat? or our low dmg even when 2hand, useless RR5 *pop's rr5 for triple healing* "Bahu fucking play end".

 

[Flimgoblin]

Confirmed by a dev to a TL a while back: 2H weapons do 120% of base damage in Midgard, all 2H, Spear and Pole weapons in Albion + Hibernia do 140%. So ours may be 'free' but it does less damage. A Large Weapon Hero significantly out-damages a Warrior using 2H.

I'd like to see some testing to back that up, all the tests I've ever seen (mostly waterman's stuff) have given it as:

2h bonus = 5+spec/2%

for all lines - including midgards 2h lines.

Not saying you're wrong just I'd like to see some tests before I believe it.

 

[spook]

I see incendiary devices being brought forth as I type this, but :

But you dont hear anything about our pointless piety rising stat? or our low dmg even when 2hand, useless RR5 *pop's rr5 for triple healing* "Bahu fucking play end".

Bards have empathy as secondary rising stat, and only 1 damage type CC. This ought to looked over in some way. No matter how nice the insta ae lul on 2300 range is, they are near bottom of food chain after initial mez as main CC class. This is meant CC wise, I know that good bards are VERY capable of ruining the opposing group(s).

I'm aware that other classes get stupid rising stats, quickness for casters? Riiight, who needs it... but at least it does have some kind of effect.

Please note the "...after initial encounter"

- In the end I believe we can all agree that most classes have something that needs to be looked over. Naturally one always voices the concerns of your beloved class (I may play champ atm, but my bard is where my heart is).

 

[noblok]

I'd like to see some testing to back that up, all the tests I've ever seen (mostly waterman's stuff) have given it as:

2h bonus = 5+spec/2%

for all lines - including midgards 2h lines.

Not saying you're wrong just I'd like to see some tests before I believe it.

I was faster .

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/978.shtml
Q: A lot of people say Midgard twohanded does ~+15% damage bonus vs. onehanded, and in Hibernia and Albion (as they have special speccs) twohanded does ~+40% damage bonus vs onehanded. I'm talking about style damage. Is that quite correct?

A: Just as a side note, be very afraid of things that "a lot of people" say. For some reason unknown to mortal man, "a lot of people" tend to be either wrong, or not very many people after all.

But that's not the answer to your question! The answer according to the swell guy who looked it up is "All two handed weapons get a base 10% damage bonus, plus an extra amount based on their specialization level."

It's 10%+(spec/2)%, at least according to a quick test on my lowbie thane. Keep in mind that to test the damage difference you have to do unstyled hits, because the difference becomes smaller when you style (18% difference styled and 20% difference unstyled on my thane with 15+5 hammer).

 

[Flimgoblin]

whoot, me blind

and aha 10% not 5% base

yeah the damage is:

base damage (%age of cap - particular percentage defined by base weapon spec+stats and stuff, effects of base weapon spec capped at 50 - or possibly 51)
2h multiplier (10%+spec/2, 0% if you can't spec the line apparently so no bonus for healers)
slow weapon bonus (1% per second over 2.5? something like that - it's a tiny amount compared to the other factors)

+separately
style damage (based on spec, weaponspeed, haste, whole load of other things but mainly +spec in the line of the style)

2h bonus doesn't apply to +style damage, only to the base.

If yer a mid you get max damage by speccing:
50 weaponline

If yer a hib you get max damage by speccing:
50 lw/cs

if yer an alb you get max damage by speccing:
50 2h/pole
30ish+enoughtogetto50 in base line

Max damage for all 3 is the same using the same speed of weapon and the same growthrate of style.

Incidentally the way to test if a line is a "2h bonus line" (e.g. crossbow/longbow/bow/recurve bow are all 2h bonus lines) is if your unstyled damage cap increases with spec. If it doesn't it's a 1h line, if it does it's a 2h line

 

[Flimgoblin]

incidentally rising stat issues are a dead horse - if +23 cha instead of +23 emp was _that big a deal_ that it broke a class there's other things at work

and if they really really needed to they could give you a stacks-with-everything stat buff for it

I think changing rising stats = hacking database = very very bad thing to do

 

[spook]

I agree fully, just wanted to point out that paladins weren't the only ones with that issue. What was a bit disturbing back in the days, was the fact that Mythic thought Empathy actually did do something to bards at a point. Then again, not the first time that Mythic doesn't know their own exact codes.

Although I must admit that I didn't follow bards for the first year of daoc, so changes might have happened during that time, and my above comment is void.

Bards and healers don't receive any +dex from levels whatsoever. Something that might have been alleviated by the granted insta mezzes, as they felt behind sorcs in mezzing speed. Again, a change that ended up yielding sorcs their boltrange mez.

And yes, Mythic starting to do deep database changes doesn't sound too alluring to me

 

[Lamp]

Hmm....I don't remember having too many probs taking my necro pet down to the bottom of the sea for MLs. If I recall, put pet on passive and it faithfully followed me everywhere.

 

[noblok]

+separately
style damage (based on spec, weaponspeed, haste, whole load of other things but mainly +spec in the line of the style)

2h bonus doesn't apply to +style damage, only to the base.

Not quite. Style damage works as a multiplier to your base damage, so it is affected by the 2h bonus.

The reason why the gaps closer when styling is because the formula of the style multiplier is: ((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage Cap. This implies that the higher the unstyled cap, the lower the style multiplier.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Not quite. Style damage works as a multiplier to your base damage, so it is affected by the 2h bonus.

The reason why the gaps closer when styling is because the formula of the style multiplier is: ((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage Cap. This implies that the higher the unstyled cap, the lower the style multiplier.

fair dos

 

[Puppet]

That's crazy. Nobody is "forced" to have bots.

If you feel compelled to have bots to "compete", then you want to examine your play style...or roll on Glastonbury.

I hate the "we have to have this to compete" attitude. That attitude ruins the game. It's the same attitude that makes people reject certain classes for groups, citing "oh you can't join as we prefer class xxx so we can own".

I wish people would stop whining and enjoy the game.

While me and Azathrim dont agree too often, I actually agree with him more or less. Albion specAF reduces damage easily by 15%-18%, which is a big deal. Hibernia haste increases damage by 15% or so, also a big deal.

Lacking one (or two) of those buffs, and fighting someone who has both, is having a 30% distinct disadvantage, and perhaps more due to haste also allowing for pulling off more reactionaries.

Stealther 1vs1 is very competative, if you got some distinct disadvantage, you will suffer to the people who do have all the tricks up their sleeves. 30% is something you cant easily overcome, unless you have some other distinct advantage against the other player (eg. RealmRank-difference, or a Battler/Malice-charge is running, Malice procced, StyleReduction, SoM or Remedy).

This is the state of the game, stealthers, like everyone else, want to win.

Back to simple numbers: A Shadowblade who has no specAF and has no Haste is like fighting an INF with specAF and haste who's rezsick. Who you think would win then?

Seemingly small numbers do make a difference if added up.

 

[xxManiacxx]

Think it came down to 17% less dmg with specc AF during a test a while ago.

 

[Cemeterygates]

i dont really understand the pally love tbh cos from my experience they seemed to fair well against almost anything....especially against my champ...an ye i dont have a temp as such..just thrown together what i can on a low budget so i cant expect to be awsome but still my melee sists are good.....could prob do with a few more hits tho...melee sists are (if i remember right) 26 thrust 24 slash 21 crush

 

[Cemeterygates]

also would like to add to that i have 393 str buffed...an +14 to lw an blunt...an i think +12 to shield....so really i aint that bad....but i seem to get trounced by most...lol