1.72G Ranger and Hunter love

[-Freezingwiz-]

I do believe that hunter are on a different damage table, higher one than scouts and rangers, so they also benefit more from speccing higher in melee.
Regards, Glottis

Hunters and Warriors got a 4-5% WS boost in a patch some time ago aswell

 

[Antedeluvian]

well all scouts spec 42 shield only cos of Slam.. i know scouts got a stun at lvl 34 on slash line .. what is length?

5 secs, and it's a chain, block-riposte-befuddler

 

[Phule_Gubben]

I know shield sounds nice on paper, but as you said yourself, when slam is landed it is purged anyway.
The major problem is, at 44 pierce a ranger is going to be seriously hurting a toon, but a scout with 44 melee is not going to be much of a threat.
I do believe that hunter are on a different damage table, higher one than scouts and rangers, so they also benefit more from speccing higher in melee.
Regards, Glottis

one possible reason hunters got better melee damage then scouts might be the poor defense, to justify the lack of defense?

Sounds reasonable to me atleast.

 

[zx^]

one possible reason hunters got better melee damage then scouts might be the poor defense, to justify the lack of defense?

Sounds reasonable to me atleast.

aye it is, the thing that made the hunter really overpowered is/were Ap3-4 and the high dmg spear. Now Ap3-4 turns to PD, AoM but all archers got that.

so lets see how it goes in NF, never liked the big piece of my dmg go away to their ap3

 

[enigma]

in your dreams

I'm not going to say what is and what's not possible cause that's exactly what every archer class does against each other. Though it certainly isn't impossible to do. In this scenario the scout got the jump, ofcourse he has the upper hand.

Maybe some drops bu if u look at the great bows with %dmg as braggart's bow albs get 5.6 hibs 5.1, dunno about mids but surely more fast than ranger's bow and about range ... yes I know it's a little difference but when u shoot from high terrain and have 10% range + 5% braggart's bow arrow the difference is noticiable, got a friend scout, she use braggart's as me, we have 10% range, I can't shoot mids at mtk hill without being casted by guards, my friend scout can easily shoot mids close to mtk doors. About balance at archer class , the only way to make em balanced is copy/paste the archer class at three realms, that would be boring so archers of each realm are better than the other 2 on some things and worst on anothers, with nf incoming and all the expected keep camp shield+better range + slower "nice" bows can't hurt scouts tho. Anyway all the fotm who rolled archers at the 3 realms aren't expecting to to excel at melee just leech from range easy rps at keep takes tho.

The errors in this post have already been pointed out, but I'd like to make this correction:

Anyway all the fotm who rolled archers at the 3 realms aren't expecting to to excel at melee just leech from range easy rps at keep takes tho, oh.. except the ones who rolled a ranger who wants to excel at both.

Ofcourse, good melee and ranged attacks aren't always a winner, sometimes the shield won the fight or got you rps and sometimes the pet won the fight or got you rps. But you can't deny that when you're not hindered from swinging at the target, the offhand is good.. Shooting at the scout in a keep, yes, you won't get the easy kills you might get the other way around, but there ARE situations where melee damage comes in handy. Though it seems archer action is centered around archery and then scouts have the edge.

Because they designed it that way.

They will never manage to balance daoc.

 

[Glottis]

one possible reason hunters got better melee damage then scouts might be the poor defense, to justify the lack of defense?

Sounds reasonable to me atleast.

Sounds fine to me also, except that this game is all about offense, not defense.
Why do you think a merc is prefered above a shield armsman?
Offense wtpwns defense.
So basically, a hunter is better than a scout, and rangers are just silly (and despite that, they still zerg Odin's non stop... so sad).
Regards, Glottis

 

[Dorin]

Sounds fine to me also, except that this game is all about offense, not defense.
Why do you think a merc is prefered above a shield armsman?
Offense wtpwns defense.
So basically, a hunter is better than a scout, and rangers are just silly (and despite that, they still zerg Odin's non stop... so sad).
Regards, Glottis

mincer #45 invites you to his grp with #346 DW infil and what you said is not true anymore, balance > offense ><

 

[zx^]

I would like to point out that a slammed Hunter can't insta summon his wolf. The wolf only comes out on special occasions as it prevents both the speed spell and re-stealthing if the wolf is "in combat"

normal the pet is summoned be4 the slam .. as when the first arrow hits the hunter, then the pet is on route to the scout

 

[zx^]

mincer #45 invites you to his grp with #346 DW infil and what you said is not true anymore, balance > offense ><

dont know for other scouts but i know i rather want some heavy offence instead of Defence..

Best defence is a fast attack

if i wanted someone to be specced in defence then i would had gotten a pally.

 

[Puppet]

I know shield sounds nice on paper, but as you said yourself, when slam is landed it is purged anyway.
The major problem is, at 44 pierce a ranger is going to be seriously hurting a toon, but a scout with 44 melee is not going to be much of a threat.
I do believe that hunter are on a different damage table, higher one than scouts and rangers, so they also benefit more from speccing higher in melee.
Regards, Glottis

44 pierce ranger has exact same mainhand damage as a 44 thrust scout.

With legendary weapons you can expect to hit for 200-250 on assassins with 44 thrust spec (depending on weapon-speed and haste this can vary abit more ofcourse)

Once every 2,5 swings I swing my offhand on my ranger; for an additional 80-100~ damage.

You block about 1 in 2,5 swings either a mainhand or an offhand from me as 42 shield spec scout.

Problem is that scouts cant spec high melee AND 42 shield without seriously cutting on bow/stealth.

Im pretty sure if you think slam is always purged you wouldnt spec for it; but most scouts do.. So it must have its uses.

Personally I would seriously drop shield; if I found slam to get purged too many times. Scout with IP, FZ, 20-30 shield and higher melee-spec (39-44) can easily kill stuff then; either from range with bow or endure in melee with FZ, IP and a decent melee output from the higher melee-spec.

 

[Yadeniel]

ALl who dont think archers are overpowered in NF is a noob, and the advantage of rangers hunters against scouts is insane. Archers are god mode in NF now, they dont need more love uke:

Now archers have 100% action in NF, defense, taking keeps, roaming. MoS negate the only predator who can hunt em, and if the assassins find the archers before, they still are like a light tank , and have lame things like IP (dont needed in NF by em tbh).

 

[Flimgoblin]

puppet - the advantage of the offhand isn't in the extra damage (although that's nice and all) it's in the 50% reduction in their evade/block

 

[-Palan-]

u did notice a nerf of IP tho?! lvl1 gives u 20% HPs back, thats like 2hits more from a SB/infil. lvl2 wich most will get will giv 50% nice, but far away from the usefull 100%heal that we had befor.

now about the mos whine u assassins will still have it easy now as all those new rolled archers will get try and get high mos asap. wich will result in them only getting ip1 or so as deffence.

now u gotta ask urself what u'd rather want. a archer that sees u befor u attack him, but still dies like poo, or an archer like it was befor with 100% heal or Ap3.

 

[Matmardigan]

.Scout with IP, FZ, 20-30 shield and higher melee-spec (39-44) can easily kill stuff then; either from range with bow or endure in melee with FZ, IP and a decent melee output from the higher melee-spec.

just with luck. U just can hope that u dont meet an full TOA'ed assasins. TOA changed alot. Its nearly impossible 2 win in melee as an Scout against an assasin now. Malice+Battler and/or Cold+Heat ldg Weapons 10% melee dmg/style dmg/melee speed >> then 44 thrust/slash + 10% Archery speed/range/Dmg bonus in an pure melee fight.

 

[AngelHeal]

Armsman?

noooooooooooooooob !!!

infil ofcourse!!

oreuhm, bonedancer pets

 

[Puppet]

puppet - the advantage of the offhand isn't in the extra damage (although that's nice and all) it's in the 50% reduction in their evade/block

If we're talking about assassins; surely assassins dont block and evade in their back. If you cant drop an assassin with FZ; meaning you get an additional 5~ arrows on them you should check your gear.

My ranger (with 45+17 bow) deals easily 350-400 damage / shot (excl. crits) on typical assassins with a 4.9 spd bow (Fools bow) and I didnt even bother with +archery damage gear.

Say you get 5 shots on him for 350 dmg = 350x5 = 1750 damage dealt to the assassin; that leaves 250-500 damage to dish in melee to kill that assassin. Surely thats possible?

 

[enigma]

I think he was talking about rangers, not assassins, though I could be wrong.

 

[Matmardigan]

If we're talking about assassins; surely assassins dont block and evade in their back. If you cant drop an assassin with FZ; meaning you get an additional 5~ arrows on them you should check your gear.

My ranger (with 45+17 bow) deals easily 350-400 damage / shot (excl. crits) on typical assassins with a 4.9 spd bow (Fools bow) and I didnt even bother with +archery damage gear.

Say you get 5 shots on him for 350 dmg = 350x5 = 1750 damage dealt to the assassin; that leaves 250-500 damage to dish in melee to kill that assassin. Surely thats possible?

u 4get the adds, not much solo assasin out there. ull get him 2 10% maybe 5% and b4 u can finish him off u get jumped by another 1 or the bitch takes the easier way and rush away b4 u can finish him off. Thats the nerfiest thing which can happen. Assholes playing assasins 2 gank other ppl and 2 sadisfy there ego and if they get jumped or attacked they run like a BITCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh!!!!!111

 

[censi]

not like scouts dont run!

 

[censi]

seriously though.

I cant believe anyone could be unhappy about a small boost to a line which is probably close to utterly useless.

Even with this boost its not worth speccing much but perhaps whatever gives the green con spec af might be worth it.

Pathfinding in its conception would have been so utterly awesome but BB's have rendered this a dead line.

And no one solos without BB's becuase your about 40% less effective which means death.

 

[Phule_Gubben]

ALl who dont think archers are overpowered in NF is a noob, and the advantage of rangers hunters against scouts is insane. Archers are god mode in NF now, they dont need more love uke:

Now archers have 100% action in NF, defense, taking keeps, roaming. MoS negate the only predator who can hunt em, and if the assassins find the archers before, they still are like a light tank , and have lame things like IP (dont needed in NF by em tbh).

QQ

stop the wajn!

 

[Jaond]

if they get jumped or attacked they run like a BITCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh!!!!!111

You should try play vs a mincer

 

[censi]

Originally Posted by Yadeniel
ALl who dont think archers are overpowered in NF is a noob, and the advantage of rangers hunters against scouts is insane. Archers are god mode in NF now, they dont need more love

Now archers have 100% action in NF, defense, taking keeps, roaming. MoS negate the only predator who can hunt em, and if the assassins find the archers before, they still are like a light tank , and have lame things like IP (dont needed in NF by em tbh).

Yadenial rolled an inf instead of a scout because he preferred the playstyle.

And I would say (and I know what im talking about more than yadienial when it comes to this) in a battle of the archers, scouts have the biggest advantage. Theres 2 main scenarios. 1 Ranger or Hunter see scout unstealthed and starts shooting or the other way around. Scouts whip out the shield and can forget about death from arrows. Rangers or hunter either run or charge down the opponent (interupting with SS isnt really viable, scout can just arm shield and start shooting again when you decide to move in or escape).

Sure other scenario's where the 2 classes meet each other in closer quarters favour the higher melee capability of the ranger or hunter, but even then the scout has slam to fall back on and it that lands and he FZ's he will win.

I really wouldnt bitch too much about the balance of power amoung archers, its actually very well balanced with each class having their strengths and weaknesses.

However the underperformance of beastcalling (or beastsummin) and pathfinding (from use of BB) is like the biggest indirect nerf of a spec line in the game. In a world where solo'ers run unbuffed these lines really add to the classes.

What you are seeing now though is a mass of people rolling archers in preparation for their potential dominance. You will see who has loyalty to their toon and you will also see those who just want to play whatever is easiest and best.

Rolled an archer yet yad?

 

[Matmardigan]

You should try play vs a mincer

made an Hunter on gorre, i know what u mean, nerf mincers imo

didnt knew how shit they r cause i never fought against em

 

[Haldar]

now u gotta ask urself what u'd rather want. a archer that sees u befor u attack him, but still dies like poo, or an archer like it was befor with 100% heal or Ap3.

old one.

bcoz I'd control this fight.

now, if i land PA it goes as pa-cd(stun)-ss-garrote-ah - dead archer. even b4 stun finishes.

if i somehow miss pa - i usually get slam, zephyr...and all i can is hope that my malice charge is up to reduce incoming 1600-2000 dmg to less life-threatening value, and then run away while digesting health potion. if i purge slam - archer still got ip, but i can live with it.

if archer gets mos - i will not be able to PA him. ever. it means - hello zephyr...

1 evening with mos5 ranger on gorre proved me all of this...really felt bad for assasins i've uncovered and fed to nearby non-stealthers....

 

[Puppet]

u 4get the adds, not much solo assasin out there. ull get him 2 10% maybe 5% and b4 u can finish him off u get jumped by another 1 or the bitch takes the easier way and rush away b4 u can finish him off. Thats the nerfiest thing which can happen. Assholes playing assasins 2 gank other ppl and 2 sadisfy there ego and if they get jumped or attacked they run like a BITCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh!!!!!111

If we gonna introduce adds and make it zerg vs zerg the scout is in the advantage with the highest range, protection against arrows on range by switching to shield and being in the realm with the most stealthers

Its like saying Im about to wtfpwn this scout on my ranger and a 2nd scout shoots me dead.

Surely it happens; but it happens from both sides

 

[Urme the Legend]

no.

It's crap if it doesn't stack .. who would specc beastcraft 42 (hunter) to get the highest shield.. then I'll continue to use AF charges. And save me those specc points.

 

[Yadeniel]

u did notice a nerf of IP tho?! lvl1 gives u 20% HPs back, thats like 2hits more from a SB/infil. lvl2 wich most will get will giv 50% nice, but far away from the usefull 100%heal that we had befor.

now about the mos whine u assassins will still have it easy now as all those new rolled archers will get try and get high mos asap. wich will result in them only getting ip1 or so as deffence.

now u gotta ask urself what u'd rather want. a archer that sees u befor u attack him, but still dies like poo, or an archer like it was befor with 100% heal or Ap3.

Yep, before 30min, now 15min, almost alwyas up.

Wow, the archers will only have 150%life? and will evade my PA with MoS? wow... now lets think about it..

Archer see an assassin from distance, if he cant critshot, just zephyr, shoot shoot shoot shoot, ZZzZzz, shoot.. Zephyr off, infil try to go in melee with archer, shoot, shoot ZzzZzzz dead...
If infil goes in melee with the archer.. the archer still have IP ^^ cool.

I tested a lot of chars in Gorre, and archers discover me with mos3, but i still can run cos we dotn have MLs.. in main servers will be overpowered.

Then i tested a mos5 scout, wtf, are we playing the same game? archer = god, i can shoot all i want, all targets i want, from 494753 range, awesome dmg, and still avoid any melee (archers "weakness") and my main predator (assassins), and i always have my rr5 free RA = idontloseevery15min (when u need melee, almost never, is always up, and u can run...)


Tbh i dont want IP removed from archers, just from the whole game, u have 1life, if u dont know play it fuck off nab, this isnt mario bros.

 

[Yadeniel]

u 4get the adds, not much solo assasin out there. ull get him 2 10% maybe 5% and b4 u can finish him off u get jumped by another 1 or the bitch takes the easier way and rush away b4 u can finish him off. Thats the nerfiest thing which can happen. Assholes playing assasins 2 gank other ppl and 2 sadisfy there ego and if they get jumped or attacked they run like a BITCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh!!!!!111

that is 1scout vs 2assassins.

Now think about 2scouts vs 1assassin, the assassin would got one to 10% before die? dont think so.

 

[Yadeniel]

Yadenial rolled an inf instead of a scout because he preferred the playstyle.

And I would say (and I know what im talking about more than yadienial when it comes to this) in a battle of the archers, scouts have the biggest advantage. Theres 2 main scenarios. 1 Ranger or Hunter see scout unstealthed and starts shooting or the other way around. Scouts whip out the shield and can forget about death from arrows. Rangers or hunter either run or charge down the opponent (interupting with SS isnt really viable, scout can just arm shield and start shooting again when you decide to move in or escape).

Sure other scenario's where the 2 classes meet each other in closer quarters favour the higher melee capability of the ranger or hunter, but even then the scout has slam to fall back on and it that lands and he FZ's he will win.

I really wouldnt bitch too much about the balance of power amoung archers, its actually very well balanced with each class having their strengths and weaknesses.

However the underperformance of beastcalling (or beastsummin) and pathfinding (from use of BB) is like the biggest indirect nerf of a spec line in the game. In a world where solo'ers run unbuffed these lines really add to the classes.

What you are seeing now though is a mass of people rolling archers in preparation for their potential dominance. You will see who has loyalty to their toon and you will also see those who just want to play whatever is easiest and best.

Rolled an archer yet yad?

No, rerolling to 44cs and 1730ws, so i can remove the fuckin fotm archers from the fuckin NF, and getting some stuff to counter zephyrwhores.

C u in NF.


U will still zerg having mos5+zephyr and all those iwinbuttons u have?

Thats is the question.