1.71 Bonuses

[Belomar]

Well, you are of course free to turn my own words against me, but I don't see how they apply. Why would I need to bring any good arguments to the table when people have already presented them time and time again in this thread, and all you do is to regurgitate the same crap? Demrog, Joohl and Yma all provided thoughtful and clear posts, and you continued on your same old line of reasoning. That, my friend, is where the stupidity (or possibly illiteracy?) comes in, and the fact that you can't seem to keep vulgarisms out of your language does not exactly help your cause.

 

[Cadelin]

ahh yes and u bring what to this thread? a vulgar, stupid, seemingly illiterate reply... but hey i stated why u shouldnt get the bonuses and i get arseholes like u, remi & co who rather than put forward a case, just carry on the childish act that typifies ur realm

Good come back, you really showed him you were above personal insults.


Now to add something to the discussion.

The minimum length of time you can subscribe to this game is 1 month. I am not sure how many people subscribe like this but lets assume everybody does that for now. This means if you quit playing DaoC there will be on average half a month when you still pay for the game but don't play it at all. Now consider that most people don't just quit all at once, there is generally a period where you still log in reasonably frequently but find nothing to do so log out. This adds at least a months delay to all GOA's statistics on active accounts.

Log in to mid and do a /who and it will always be comfortably less than 30% now. In a few months when the general statistics start showing this then maybe something will change.


Why do people keep saying mids are so disorganised? Firstly if we are sooo disorganised look at all the planned things on the forums. Maybe that doesn't count as organisation in another realm, I mean an epic mob needing more than a fg of pet spammers, what n00bs mids must be.....
Secondly what good is organisation really? Why would one realm lack anybody to organise us? We don't, we have plenty of leaders and others willing to do a bit extra for the realm we just lack any powerful tools in keep fighting.

This of course didn't affect OF with the possible exception of the odd primetime RR and mids and hibs pulled them off successfully lead by people who STILL PLAY. A RR nowadays can be spotted hours sometimes days in advance! There is no organisation there you just need lots of people in chars that are good at keep takes/defence and oh look midgard lacks them.....

 

[Maeloch]

Not prawning all for 3 weeks and they all quitting game. Give mids some handouts to shut them up ffs. Jupi u slag such silly ideas, population bonuses should be based on population and stuff.

Put up with the shit we have and come back in 2 years mids, and get yer GoA handouts then.

Mael, 50th ment.

 

[Yma]

Jupi u slag such silly ideas, population bonuses should be based on population and stuff.

13-17-21
2-7-7

If you still don't get it, ask to someone who can read numbers and figures.

 

[Maeloch]

If you still don't get it, ask to someone who can read numbers and figures.

Didn't see so much so concern over population imbalance 2 months ago. FO cry baby.

Mael, 50th ment.

 

[Demrog]

I was thinking about this earlier today or given the time it was yesterday (while I was supposed to be working) and I had a thought.

Hib with their underpopulation bonuses and with the relics are roughly on par with Mid regarding LWRPs, give or take a few hundred. If Mid was to get any extra help, potentially that could put them back in front of Hib which to be honest we may not need (purely based on LWRPs). Looking at the LWRPs we must be doing something right or we wouldn't have any where near as many.

The only realm with any clear and constant advantage in both population numbers and LWRPs is Albion.

So what I thought was to make Midgard the norm and give us no help and standard everything (costs and XP and the like), bring hib up to our level with bonuses (already done with the underpoplation bonus) and (you albs arent going to like this - sorry) bring Alb down to the same level. This would give us a level playing field between all 3 realms. So for each bonus Hib gets, Alb forfeits (cost of seige equipment etc) but only because they are the "overpopulated" realm. If Mid suddenly got an influx of players then the roles would swap.

Some people may see this as more QQ etc and they may well be right, but I think we all agree that a level playing field is much more fun for all concerned than a constant uphill battle like Hib has suffered for a long time.

Isn't that what the population bonus is for at the end of the day?

 

[Iceforge]

Didn't see so much so concern over population imbalance 2 months ago. FO cry baby.

Mael, 50th ment.

You better think harder then, as most mids and albs have sympatised for hibs back in Old Frontiers alot and asked for you to come out, a few even rerolled to hib out of a mix of curiousity and wanting to help out, but those threads, posts, people and actions count for nothing I guess, now where you are a bit ahead, you have no need to be nice to others, even though they tried their best to be nice to you, thats fine.

Edit: Removed some curses and "bad-words", congratulations, first 2 people to make me swear on FH, Mael and Jupitus, got to love ignorant people like you 2...

 

[Jupiter]

I was thinking about this earlier today or given the time it was yesterday (while I was supposed to be working) and I had a thought.

Hib with their underpopulation bonuses and with the relics are roughly on par with Mid regarding LWRPs, give or take a few hundred. If Mid was to get any extra help, potentially that could put them back in front of Hib which to be honest we may not need (purely based on LWRPs). Looking at the LWRPs we must be doing something right or we wouldn't have any where near as many.

The only realm with any clear and constant advantage in both population numbers and LWRPs is Albion.

So what I thought was to make Midgard the norm and give us no help and standard everything (costs and XP and the like), bring hib up to our level with bonuses (already done with the underpoplation bonus) and (you albs arent going to like this - sorry) bring Alb down to the same level. This would give us a level playing field between all 3 realms. So for each bonus Hib gets, Alb forfeits (cost of seige equipment etc) but only because they are the "overpopulated" realm. If Mid suddenly got an influx of players then the roles would swap.

Some people may see this as more QQ etc and they may well be right, but I think we all agree that a level playing field is much more fun for all concerned than a constant uphill battle like Hib has suffered for a long time.

Isn't that what the population bonus is for at the end of the day?

actually thats a damn good suggestion tbh, so it would b an overpopulation penalty rather than bonus hmmm

 

[Jupiter]

Edit: Removed some curses and "bad-words", congratulations, first 2 people to make me swear on FH, Mael and Jupitus, got to love ignorant people like you 2...

I'm jupiter btw not jupitus

 

[Awarkle]

<steps into the waters>

well the reason hib pryd needs the pve and rvr bonus is putting it simpley we do not have enough guilds to keep every single tower / keep held we have trouble holding them as it is with small guilds . Hds has like 4 to 5 active rvrers.

Its simple facts that nearly every time ive seen mids rvr it wasnt to take keeps or towers but it was to farm albs/hibs fighting around a tower they came in farmed ran off.

Was normally an opted group anywho on to the rvr bonus.

Why should hib be penalised for having people who activly care about the realm. Alb and mid can easily match our numbers and choose not to ? is it because the run up towards 1.70 and frontiers mids and albs farmed emain 24/7 while hibernia retreated rerolled new chars did artis and master levels and let you guys run your opted gank squads which i can say wasnt fun for me being a hibby and being unable to compete.

Then when frontiers came hibs were prepared and ready we knew what we wanted and we knew how to keep it we organised and prepared weeks before frontiers came out we didnt take keeps we didnt ramp them to lvl 10 to hold darkness falls . I know for a fact that HDS stored 40k worth of guild bps to be prepared to upgrade towers and keeps.

Mid and alb have at their disposal probbly hundreds if not thousands of gbps, for claiming and upgrading keeps. YEs there will be smaller guilds that suffer but tbh mids havnt done anything that even makes me feel sorry for them.

I see them take a single tower in alb or a couple and maybe report of a full group in hib but thats all its not like the constant preasure albion are placing on hib at the moment. I would like to organise a retaliation and put a few holes in albions keeps and tbh ive kept the zergs ive run away from midgard for the simple fact why kick a dog when its down its much more fun to slap albion (sorry albs but your all /assisting lamers who need to stop reaver bombing and rolling scouts and sorcs) anywho back on track.

Mid get yourself organised its not hard if someones leading the BG then listen to them dont argue unless your preapred to run the BG next time. We got some fine leaders as im sure albion has but ive yet to see mids out in numbers. Even tonight with the attack on scathaig was reports of 4fgs and that was impressive but just charging people and TWF and static tempest isnt tactics its suicide when you doing it against hibs.

Anims are kings of defence and lets face it nearly every hib now has an animist alt (unlike me whos my main) yes shrooms are anoying but they can be combatted easily.

And if your lacking mls then abandon rvr get yourself some new chars leveled up zerg the master levels and come out fighting Hibernia did and look how well we doing now.

Dont just have a paddy and complain you arnt winning anymore because frontiers is totally different. (o yeah stop zephering off boats its gay)

 

[Buliwyf]

And if your lacking mls then abandon rvr get yourself some new chars leveled up zerg the master levels

lol you have way to much time on your hands

 

[Yma]

Didn't see so much so concern over population imbalance 2 months ago.

Then probably it's not just a question of understanding numbers and figures, but also of syntax and semantic. Ask someone explaining what I said all along the thread about bonuses and hibs, in simple words. You can make it, too.

FO cry baby.

:worthy:

 

[Belomar]

And now Maeloch.

 

[Azathrim]

Maeloch = Owned

 

[leviathane]

Not prawning all for 3 weeks and they all quitting game. Give mids some handouts to shut them up ffs. Jupi u slag such silly ideas, population bonuses should be based on population and stuff.

Put up with the shit we have and come back in 2 years mids, and get yer GoA handouts then.

Mael, 50th ment.

I think this to be basically true, well said imo :kissit:

 

[Awarkle]

not really free time piffany has just spent the past 10 weeks + (more infact) going from ml1 all the way through to ml10 this past week. Thats planning and preparation and some of those ml raids had to be abandoned for realm defence.

 

[Puppet]

I think alb does more pve even after finishing toa if even they wanna toa, i think population bonuses shud be looked at from the rvr-activity side. And we all know if you look at it that way hibs arent rly underpopulated.

Aye lets give bonusses for PvE out based on RvR population!

You could argue about the RP-bonus; but the 10% RP-bonus isnt relative to the lesser amount of RP-gain in Hibernia compared to Albion.

If you want to implement that perhaps Albion should get a -10-20% RP PENALTY, Midgard should stay on 0% and Hibernia on 5-10%.


XP-bonuses (PVE!) should be given out considering how the PVE is doing on the realm; and I think thats what's been done :O

All you guys who moan about the XP because of artifacts: In a week with AVERAGE playtime you can have *ALL* your artifacts up till 10 if u join a half-decent group. Dont say it aint possible; I racked level 7 on level 51 artifacts in 7 hours 'hardcore'-PvE Im sure if u play 2 hours / day u can do it in a week if u dedicate yourselves to it.. After your arti's are level 10 u dont care about XP only for ALTS (=PvE) and thats where the realm with the crappiest PvE gets the highest bonus.

 

[Puppet]

You better think harder then, as most mids and albs have sympatised for hibs back in Old Frontiers alot and asked for you to come out, a few even rerolled to hib out of a mix of curiousity and wanting to help out, but those threads, posts, people and actions count for nothing I guess, now where you are a bit ahead, you have no need to be nice to others, even though they tried their best to be nice to you, thats fine.

How did Albs and Mids 'sympathise' for us Hibs? By taking keeps in the middle of night ? By taking Ailinne and Bolg to help 'us' stealthers reach Emain quicker? Or by permanently using our merchant-keep as 'DF opener' ?

Or by zerging Emain with, at prime-time, 100+ from 1 realm and 80+ from another against 8-16 Hibs?

Oki you get the point I guess? Words mean nothing; its about what 'you' DID.


Look: I dont say 'take this shit we had for 2,5 years' because I dont hold grudges against anyone. But for 2,5 years Hibs tried and coped for the majority of time.

That is *NOT* comparable in any way to the current Midgard 'problem'. You dont TRY, you dont defend, you dont come out and you dont take action ( so far).

Hibs situation in OF was a combination of the way smaller population + the fact RvR was focussed in the Hib frontier. Midgards situation in NF is mostly a result of the elite not caring about 'the keeps' and the rest not being able to take a hit and recover from it (loosing relics)

 

[Yma]

That is *NOT* comparable in any way to the current Midgard 'problem'. You dont TRY, you dont defend, you dont come out and you dont take action ( so far).

You know nothing about us, thanks for showing it.

 

[Puppet]

You know nothing about us, thanks for showing it.

Is your population SIGNIFICANTLY lower then Hib/Pryd ?

If its not; its *NOT* population the reason why you failed to defend your relics and performing poorly in RvR ---> see Hib/Pryd how a 'small population' can do it.

So if it aint population, what is it ? Motivation? Or something else ?

You tell me; Im more then willing to hear and see what the reason is; so far Im unable to find a reason why; the lack of population-bonus is silly considering Midgard is performing poorly since the intro of NF - and Hibs did fine in 1.70.

 

[Azathrim]

Is your population SIGNIFICANTLY lower then Hib/Pryd?

No, my estimate is, that it's about the same with Midgard slightly on the lead.

If its not; its *NOT* population the reason why you failed to defend your relics and performing poorly in RvR ---> see Hib/Pryd how a 'small population' can do it.

With danger of seeing the Hibernia parades flash up I'll mention one thing: Shrooms.
Mind you... Im not calling for nerfs on animists. But, they are a key class in keep defense/offense. Midgard lacks this key class.

So if it aint population, what is it ? Motivation? Or something else ?

Yes, motivation part of why the population problem is growing (or drasticly falling might be more appropriate). There are many reasons for the motivation problems, some class balance or a percieved class imbalance. But, a major issue is that Midgard brings no specialty class to the table when doing keep warfare. No class that can compete with Albs superior range or Hibs shroom fields. Add on top of that reaver bombs and whatnot and you have a vague picture of what has caused this worldwide trend that Mythic struggles to fix and GoA fails to acknowledge.

 

[Yma]

its *NOT* population the reason why you failed to defend your relics

Agreed, it's not a population problem: we didn't fail to defend - we didn't defend, which is the big difference many here fail to see, our silent CSR included. We didn't defend because, with our classes and classes spread (you can't respec a realm and a realm mind in a day), is just not fun. Not a single minute, we had no reaver bombs to wipe zergs, nor shroom to avoid reaver bombs, we couldn't outrange enemy ranged and that RC bolt after a bit is boring. Maybe now it could be different - I'm sure it could, but the morale was killed first by the RR, then by Requiel gloating on us, followed by reaver bombs and now by knowing that for GoA we are as powerful as albs.

You all stand there from your tall horses, pointing us about our past sins and how we should shut up because of it, but fail to notice that those responsible of all the "crimes" (hibs and albs never camped Nottmoor, we all know this) you elegantly list here are either playing since 1.70 in your realms, maybe in different servers, or just different games. Those left here are mostly those that ran evening by evening from keep to keep fixing doors, or patrolled OG and HW looking for Mael and AoD setups for a fair fight, and run first to defend their frontier and just second to fetch rps.

And those left are now asked to rebuild a realm's morale while fighting against better geared realms that still have their rvr ranks nearly intact, with high RRs we can see only in weekly ranks and DS, and the sheer blindness of those we're paying for the privilege of "having fun" that probably agree with you: Midgard rvr problems arent due to population, so it doesnt deserve population balance bonuses. It doesn't matter that our populations numbers are sinking fast - that's irrelevant.

 

[Iceforge]

How did Albs and Mids 'sympathise' for us Hibs? By taking keeps in the middle of night ? By taking Ailinne and Bolg to help 'us' stealthers reach Emain quicker? Or by permanently using our merchant-keep as 'DF opener' ?

True, cant say that things wasnt sometimes going against your way, but the point was that even here on the forums they are to braindead to give a shit, sure thing that some aspects of acts ingame was punching those laying down, but on the other side, you expect them to lower their weapons and not take a keep in the middle of the battlefield? Not really, the "into" realm plunder raids (taking other keeps than the one between the 2 mgs) were, as I remember it, more rare than raids against albs or mids between those 2.

Or by zerging Emain with, at prime-time, 100+ from 1 realm and 80+ from another against 8-16 Hibs?

This was being discussed back then as well, and the views on it was many, but surely every mid and alb would agree with you here that hibs was not the cause of the zerging, but was the the battle between albs and mids.

Oki you get the point I guess? Words mean nothing; its about what 'you' DID.

Then why do you write stuff here? Why you read FH? Why you go to school? Why do you accually use the internet then? If words count for nothing, all that would be pretty pointless, okay, taken a bit far from my side, but words mean something, instead of being bitches (no offense) and step on those laying down, you can admit they are, the real thing the bugs me is those people who cant use their brains enough to realize when somebody else dont have a freaking chance, but just blame it on them being "bad" at what they do.

Look: I dont say 'take this shit we had for 2,5 years' because I dont hold grudges against anyone. But for 2,5 years Hibs tried and coped for the majority of time.
That is *NOT* comparable in any way to the current Midgard 'problem'.

I did not try to compare it, nobody have, hibs should stop looking back really and start to look forward, by the way many hibs are acting here in this thread (no all hibs, mind you) it seems like the attitude is "We went through it, now you SUFFER! MUWHAHAAHA", imagine if the jews had been like that in 1945 to <who-ever>? They wasnt, just be relaxed and happy that for some, to me, unknown reason you have gotten something now that makes you able to compete and take part of the game.

You dont TRY, you dont defend, you dont come out and you dont take action ( so far).

You think NF came and without walking out there and try it out, all mids just instantly said "Fuck it!"???? If so, you are seriously lacking some wits on this statement m8, we did, I did, all I know did, most of us didnt really know the situation on the US-servers (I didnt at least) and suddenly you get punched right in the face and it is basicly like a "Game-Over" sign hanging over your head all the time

Hibs situation in OF was a combination of the way smaller population + the fact RvR was focussed in the Hib frontier. Midgards situation in NF is mostly a result of the elite not caring about 'the keeps' and the rest not being able to take a hit and recover from it (loosing relics)

And we have never lost relics before and recovered, shut up please and get your facts straight, mids have in OF done so many times, but with the new system it is hard for the "open-field" realm to really compete, and dont give the shit about mids not being sub-pair in keep-seiges, really gets old and people are never listening, really...


But all the NF situation is not basicly why I quit anyway, more the stealther imbalance that got to me in the end, as I personally dont give a rat about keeps/df/power-relics anyway....

 

[Jupiter]

(you can't respec a realm and a realm mind in a day), is just not fun. Not a single minute, we had no reaver bombs to wipe zergs, nor shroom to avoid reaver bombs, we couldn't outrange enemy ranged and that RC bolt after a bit is boring.

so tell me how does shrooms avoid reaver bombs? u lot just dont get it, bonedancers get the best ra's in the game, runemasters are one of the best casters in the game and u cry about too much spread acroos classes... we lost group purge and sever the tether and could have sat back and whined but we didnt... ur excuses are getting worse

 

[Iceforge]

so tell me how does shrooms avoid reaver bombs? u lot just dont get it, bonedancers get the best ra's in the game, runemasters are one of the best casters in the game and u cry about too much spread acroos classes... we lost group purge and sever the tether and could have sat back and whined but we didnt... ur excuses are getting worse

You lost stuff that was OP already, really.

Think Yma got it the wrong way around, the reaver-bombs helps albs avoiding the shrooms, tell me, who do mids do that?

And can confirm your reasoning isn't getting worse, it just plain bad all along..

Edit: Forgot to ask: what RAs on BDs are the ones making their RA choises the best in the game and why is RM one of the best casters?

 

[Tesla Monkor]

This entire discussion (yelling contest) comes down to one thing, basically. Midgard needs to reinvent itself in RvR.

Will this happen? Noone knows and only time will tell. Perhaps Catacombs will create an influx of new players...

 

[Yma]

Funny how the talk moved from mids wondering why they had no population bonuses on levels gained (pve), to yet another rr, rvr and classes flaming thread as tens of similar in all forums. Can't you just live without dwarves and trolls in frontiers for a bit ?

 

[Aran Thule]

Right, well firstly i dont have access to the data GOA has or know how they decide who gets what.

The point is that these bonuses are suppose to help the smaller realms attract more people.

Hib are the smallers and should get the biggest boost from this.
Even if we do seem to be able to field large numbers on some occations this is due to us trying to get everyone to help not due to high base numbers.

Mid, well from what people have been saying here i was expecting them to be in the middle ground , basically on the 0% bonus area.

Albs need to be brought into check, due to the great plan of calling the game dark age of camelot they were always going to pull in more people.

As for the discussion on mids NF performance, well my opinion is as follows.
The arena of battle has changed, whereas before emain was open and you could run around continually, you cant do that as easily now.
Even when mids had all 3 power relics you still hardly ever saw mages out there in balanced groups.
This has left the realm with a lack of 'primary' casters and given that range is far more important this hasnt helped midgards position.

As for how to rebuild, i dont know, its almost impossible to get people to listen which ends up with thoose trying feeling like they are banging thier head against a wall.

 

[Buliwyf]

Midgard sleep's with the fishes!

Just do as I do ~ live with it.

 

[Marath]

What Tesla said. Mids would need to reinvent themselfs to compete in rvr. With the current make up of active classes thats kinda hard. And the worst thing is that in completely PvE gimp realm that is Midgard you cannot just fast get MLs and arties done so you cant reroll. (If you didnt do mls when they were still rolling too bad for you).

Seems like we have a few people driving it forward atm though so will see what happens.

Jupiter needs a little more attention so he can muster his strenght to be as bad flame bater as EU_sceptic (or how ever its typed) is on VN whine boards.
Dont worry you are doing great on it already. uke:

How its now fg vs fg depends a lot on the players. 2 fg vs 2 fg will go somewhat ok too. Zerg vs zerg mids havent got a snowballs change in hell ... sorry.

Last few keep takes that mids tried to alb land ended to reavers. Mids have 10 times the numbers of the defenders ? No matter they have high ml rr5+ reaver or 2 there. Game over to mids. When´hibs attacked nott with 100 people I had a group inside to defend it and few more entered fast. Animist spammed shrooms to roof and windows. Auto target no LOS-check at end of cast was the end of it. All mids could do was wait at the lords room till the hibs got the doors down and zerged up.

Fun ? Yeah so much. Thats what games are for. Fun. Heard about that ? What people do when they are not having fun ? They cry about it or quit and possible both (like me ). Same thing as savages back in the day. Bugged as hell and that made em op. Albs/hibs QQ and quit/pve only. Fun for them ? Not at all.

Thats that and then even something about the bonuses.
Imo hibs can keep the bonuses but would like to either throw em to mids also or make albs have a penalty. Being the pve gimp realm already anything would help. Good example:
http://www.visionofsages.net/toa/Celestius.html
Quote from there: "Reccomended Raid Size: 50+ non petspam; 40+ one petspammer; 30+ two petspammers for optimal efficiency."

Anything to throw a bone to mids would help on pve and most of all the morale of the realm.

RvR bonuses ? Anything that would keep albs from not having all relics to kill the server would help. Albs just took 1 of the str ones so they have 4 and hibs 2. Becides that dont really care.

Time of writing this Prydwen had 149 players and 29 of em were mids.