1.54: Undocumented archer nerfs (Third time!)

[Shike]

Sarnat.....

what would you say if your class was turned into a total gimp?

What would you say if your character made a stupid animation every time an enemy blocked one blow from you that made you rooted?

What if they would nerf you so much that you can no longer kill anything and just die all the time.

Your post was just totally uncalled for and I had hoped you cared more for other players as they after all are controlled by humans that lay down equally much time and effort as you do.

But hey, nerf us more, we are just whiners anyway I guess.

 

[AbPoon]

What you mean more gimped then my 5 specced zerker?

 

[Tranquil-]

/em lies down to die.

 

[Sarnat]

LOL is the only word I can think of... well err.. acronym.

 

[Shike]

ok Sarnat, you dont care for other players at all it seems, be selfish and laugh in rejoice when others have a tough time, sounds like a great way of playing a multiplayergame dude, great attitude that really makes me like you a lot. Not that you care though. <sigh>

oh and Sarnat, please continue to be so constructive, you're doing great so far

 

[Fightersuntzu]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
Future of daoc is just going to be 3 classes the way it's going.

Someone said something about that in VN.....i cant remember the exact wording, but basically his sig said "Nerf Bob". His explanation of this was that the whiners and the nerfcriers wouldnt be appeased until all 3 realms were reduced to a single class, Bob, who had a knife and a loincloth. And people would probably still find a way to cry nerf

 

[Shike]

only reason I dont roll an NS is that Mythic probably will listen to peoples cries and screams in agony over assassins and hit them down so hard that assassins will be unplayable aswell.

A while ago archers was RvRgods.
Now they are fallen shadows of those gods.

Now Assassins are RvRgods.
Who can tell what they will be in 6 months.

I doubt that Mythic learns from how they have treated archers and will probably overdo the nerfing when its assassins turn.

Best odds for having a good solid char in a year is probably to make the most impopular class now and stick to it, they dont even have to make that class better, they just kill all other classes around with the random nerfbat i guess

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by caelithar
Also the fact if you fumble once , it seems to set of a chain of fumbles , I've had them 3 times in a row on yellow cons before finally letting an arrow fly , which by then is too late of course .This is a pretty regular occurence now

line up a shot
you fumble the attack and take time to recover
line up a shot
you fumble the attack and take time to recover
line up a shot
you fumble the attack and take time to recover

ruuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnn

Happens with wizards and resists:

Bolt, miss
bolt, miss
root, resist

sprint, turn, root, resist

on yellows

Happens with my merc and melee attacks - taunt (miss), taunt (fumble), taunt(miss), taunt(fumble), cleric bites the dust.

the upshot of it: It's random you get streaks.

Now the fellow that takes 4000 samples (or 10000 samples) over time and works out a reliable percentage has some weight behind his claims the 'I missed three times in a row' alas is just a product of chance.

 

[Slipurson]

Originally posted by Shike
Sarnat.....

what would you say if your class was turned into a total gimp?

What would you say if your character made a stupid animation every time an enemy blocked one blow from you that made you rooted?

What if they would nerf you so much that you can no longer kill anything and just die all the time.

Your post was just totally uncalled for and I had hoped you cared more for other players as they after all are controlled by humans that lay down equally much time and effort as you do.

But hey, nerf us more, we are just whiners anyway I guess.

'

if i where sarnat there i would roll any other of the nongimped nonnerfed classes like for example WARRIOR.....

Seriously i don't think Mythic just think: hey lets nerf a class and roll the "class-dice".... and look we landed on scout again... nerfs and changes is something we are going to have to live with.... if we had 300 Warriors running around in emain killing everything in sight and did it well, ppl would whine about that and soon they would have changed the dmgoutput or something from Warriors.

But it is still sad that they change classes like that, and only give a respec for the trouble... (if anything), so i can understand if u are upset, hell i mean if i bought a sportscar and after 4 months they come and take out the turbo, saying u don't need this u can still drive... then i would buy myself a new car , sadly it is not easy to make a new char.. not if u want to put some "life" into it and not just PL it to 50 as fast as u can

But in the end it is a game... and all classes has thier ups and downs...

 

[Danya]

Had 7 spells running resisted on a yellow.

 

[erl]

An update on the original matter comes here. I've been reading the vnboards some, mainly these threads matter:
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=40170297&start=40178774
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=40289651&replies=4
What they say are that the increased misses and fumbles are only in some peoples imaginations. Tests have shown this. The rooting during the "victory dance" is not intended and has high priority for a fix by Mythic (they say). Some testers say that the increased draw time is just imagined too, some say otherwise. However its just about 0.1s, and Mythic are aware of the problem and looking into it (they say).

 

[old.Tohtori]

Umm...mind someone clear why actually, shortly and with no biblistic ceremony...meaning make it simple.., why the hunter/archer/whatnot is so crap? I mean, isn't it the only class with good ranged AND near combat skills?

 

[Solid]

Originally posted by Shike
Sarnat.....

what would you say if your class was turned into a total gimp?

What if they would nerf you so much that you can no longer kill anything and just die all the time.

Sarnat will prolly beg to differ as he sees everything through rose coloured glasses, but he IS a thane, who happens to take the place of 2nd most gimped class in the game after hunters.

Saying that Sarnat, you sir are being a twat by making silly coments like that, I honestly think you are on Valium 90% of your waking life, seems Mythic can do no wrong in your eyes

 

[Solid]

Oh and Toto, you seen the damage that Armsman can do with 0 (zero, zip natta) spec in x-bow? they hit for 150-200 damage a pop, imagine that scaled up to 50 and an Armsman becomes the best Ranged/Melee damage dealer out there.

All archers classes are hurt, Hunters are hurt the most as Beastcraft is such a lame excuse for a class specific spec line.

 

[Cowled]

Sigh

www.daocscout.com

To those who are bored...

Havn't they nerfed us enough?

And WHY THE HELL ALL THE CHANGES IN THE GAME? Can't u get it in ur HEAD to STOP CHANGING THE RULES!

This isn't the first undocumented nerf.... try look at the -20% dmg in pvp & pve

 

[Blood]

And lets not forget that in 1.53 the increase parry/blocking rates.... who is the only melee class that cant equip a shield? Hunters

(i dont see rangers using a shield much, but its still a boost to EVERY other class than hunters... sigh)

And we get 1.54 together with 1.53.. well its going to be like hitting your head against a chesnut tree (they are hard)

 

[Danya]

Welcome to dark age of assassins.

 

[Arnor]

Now the fellow that takes 4000 samples (or 10000 samples) over time and works out a reliable percentage has some weight behind his claims the 'I missed three times in a row' alas is just a product of chance

actually, some dude on vnboards did a test, fired 1000 shots and had like 20% fumbles or something.

 

[old.Uku]

Try to see a big picture. U spend 3 months leveling character, then u play it 3 months and u get boored of game. Now if u level 3 months the character, play it 1 month, realize - that it suxx and gets nerfed even more - what u'll do - right u spend another 3 months leveling other 'nice' calss. Guess what happens next ?

The keyword - im sorry if its surprizes u - is not fun or offering something nice, but MONEY!

As for archers - casters are our targets. Skilled caster will rape archer almost every time. If archer has realm abilities 'up' - its 50/50 i would say. (so - more fun, after 30 minutes recharge)

Luckily not _all_ casters are skilled players and some are skilled but not lvl50 yet (what?!? i have seen 1 green enchancer in frontier!!). It will get worse for archer. Even in big battle - as 'last attack' key is added. (ofc also in solo it will be worse) (and nerfs too). And u can compensate your 'lack of skills' with gamedevices - ie.
"Kratt shoots you with his masterpice bow."
"The blow is absorbed by magical barrier."
1 button hit will invoke:
Example:
Last Attack key <- even now its not needed, if u did not have target, Face, Quickcast, Mezz (Stun, DoT), /laugh, Nuke (550), Nuke (550), /flex, /gu lol - another dead idiot (spells will add to query in next versions)

Bit more tricky if i Purge and hit IP. So to have a chance to kill skilled caster u need RR4L3

So instaid of 1 mezz, i need to check - do i need to root (snare) or not.

But on the other hand - by then my hunter will have 1 milj rpts and i'll be the stupid one again to level next 'uber' class for 3-6 months in PvP, as atm there are no good alternative games .

There will be tho. I had a look for Shadowbane. The concept is mutch better (economy and stuff), and as they release in in few months - i guess in a year the game will be ready . We shall see.

Oh. I also have killed tanks. But only way to do it is - that tank wants to die (or underestimating archer). There is hit and run tactic - and if tank will still want to play - and not leaving - finally u can kill him (unless its Champ , or Skald i guess as can hit them, but not run). Eh. wait. thay are not tanks too )

Kratt RR5L7 Hunter

PS. So there is a script - how to kill an archer. So anyone can provide script - how to kill caster plz?

PSS. why did u think they put bindstones at teleports ?
And u know why weight of arrows is reduced? (cos u shoot like a mad till u die, without scoring)

 

[Danya]

How to kill a caster:
Perforate artery
Creeping death
Any other styles you feel like.

 

[old.tuppe]

Originally posted by Fingoniel


Happens with wizards and resists:

Bolt, miss
bolt, miss
root, resist

sprint, turn, root, resist

on yellows

Happens with my merc and melee attacks - taunt (miss), taunt (fumble), taunt(miss), taunt(fumble), cleric bites the dust.

the upshot of it: It's random you get streaks.

Now the fellow that takes 4000 samples (or 10000 samples) over time and works out a reliable percentage has some weight behind his claims the 'I missed three times in a row' alas is just a product of chance.

agree, played so far rm close 30, and my hunter is 24.
bolts have some bad problem, but they have some nice backups to use, or atleast rm, root is one, sprint and waite speed launch.
antikite kode is mainly huge problem whit my rm, lastly today mob run away 3 time before notice, better i give up.

but hunter, ohboy!
some xp situation has burn in my mind some marks
4 shoot whit arrows, miss! 3 first hit whit spear, miss,
turn away and start sprint, uupps, out of endurance!
aahh, speed buff, press it but same time it launch, mob hit me and speed off,
long walk back to xp spot.

hunter has shortest range as archers!
heard something about 1500? not 100% sure aboout this.
rm NS range is 2350, and bolts 1800..
well, dunno ranger and scout but they get some luve in resent patch whit weapon/defense changes.
hunter?
only spear user in midgard so no help from that side,
no 1h spear
style damage lower what alb/hibs 2h weapons (that famous mids 115% and alb/hibs 140%), otherwise fine weapon.
evade2
no shield.
studded
rogue htp
own buffs?! well shammys lvl 10 buffs are better what any hunters?!
pet? green pet, hmm, well, yes, if target is so stupid he concentrate pet, he deserve dead, against caster its ok when interupting, but root pet and nuke hunter, pet go home.

simply hunter is paper and if they want rp points? well, greykilling is allways option

ok, played in thidraki little and notice there hunter is still great char, maybe other bg too?
but over 40 when styledamage starts dramaticly rise whit weapons, low htp kick really badly.

and remember! hunter is THE melee hunter
all anytime style has penalty to defense ->evade2 ->rogue htp ->studded -> dead hunter.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.tuppe
hunter has shortest range as archers!
heard something about 1500? not 100% sure aboout this.
rm NS range is 2350, and bolts 1800..
well, dunno ranger and scout but they get some luve in resent patch whit weapon/defense changes.

Bows should be about 2000 for hunter (not entirely sure and it depends on the bow used, it;s way over 1500 though).
Nearsight is 2300, bolts are 1875.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.tuppe
agree, played so far rm close 30, and my hunter is 24.
bolts have some bad problem, but they have some nice backups to use, or atleast rm, root is one, sprint and waite speed launch.
antikite kode is mainly huge problem whit my rm, lastly today mob run away 3 time before notice, better i give up.

Point was more you can get some stinking bad luck at times

the equivalent of your hunter example is bolt miss bolt miss, root resists, sprint, turn, root resist, sprint, realise it's running faster than you, die

 

[Danya]

I remember a nuke hit, nuke resist, stun resist, nuke resist, stun resist, qc stun resist, sprint, stun resist, nuke resist, nuke resist, die

 

[old.tuppe]

yep, know feeling
but so far enjoyed more whit rm what hunter and my hunter, lvl 24, is 7 month old now, started whit it, give up when lvl10 and rolled bers.
dunno, but my feeling, hunter is the race what need now help, and alott.
know people hate those sniping archers but truely, when hunter last time kill you? and now i mean 1v1, equal lvl, not 50 Tesla against 40.

 

[bleurgh]

Be right back, just gonna go delete the scout i just made and got to level 9. no point rolling a char that cant even kill mobs, much less one that cant kill the enemy

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Fingoniel


Point was more you can get some stinking bad luck at times

the equivalent of your hunter example is bolt miss bolt miss, root resists, sprint, turn, root resist, sprint, realise it's running faster than you, die

That doesn't happen even nearly as close with casters as with archers and their arrows. Also don't forget the ritual-like mouseclicking to get each and every shot off, the longer drawtime, to HAVE to buy arrows to be able to attack. Would be fun to see casters having to quit the group with the message; "sorry, out of power, need to buy more potions". The bow fumbles 10 times before someone fumbles with melee. Not to mention missed Critical Shots, that are supposed to be extra well lined shots thus having greater drawtime. Also Critical Shots cannot be shot at running targets, bolts can. Not to mention the base chance for an unspecced shield wearer of 30% to block arrows(can reach 60% with high shield spec), and the 99% chance to block arrows with Engage at shieldspec 7. DD's can still be fired, arrows can't. Oh, and casters can crit on bolts aswell, archers can't crit on the Crit shot.

Just showing you some of the things you have to be aware of.. It's not that bad, I've grown used to it.

You may continue..

 

[Shike]

yesterday I realized its no use to even try and play the archer anymore, Mythic have treated the archer way too bad so far and I just dont see the point in playing a char that obviosly is so hated by the founder of Daoc.

Ns i damn fun btw I just hope they dont get as badly nerfed as archers was.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Hunter bowrange: 1800
Ranger bowrange: 1900
Scout bowrange: 2000.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but consider standing in keep defense. The scout can shoot all the way to the bottom of the keep hill, while the hunter can barely reach past the top.

125 units is about the length of a normal horse.

Another annoying thing -- lag makes a mess of your shooting. You can't shoot a bow with a single keypress, like all other forms of attack.

<Select Target>
<click bow icon>(to draw)
<click bow icon><click bow icon>(to release and automatically draw a new arrow)
<click bow icon><click bow icon>(again)
<click bow icon><click bow icon>(again)
<click bow icon><click bow icon>(again)

That is for a normal-non critshot attack. Using critshot goes like this:

<Select Target>
<click critshot icon>(to start critshot and draw)
<click bow icon><click bow icon>(to release and automatically draw a new arrow)
<click bow icon><click bow icon>(again)
<click bow icon><click bow icon>(again)
<click bow icon><click bow icon>(again)

This doesn't seem like such a big deal. However, I shoot very fast so I have to hit the keys fast not to fall out of rythm. I have about 2.5sec to hit the two keys each time. Include lag from large battles, and it is very hard to keep going. (Shooting at a relic-force is practically impossible this way).

The fact that the hunter is bugged doesn't help either.. sometimes it 'gets stuck' in it's animation, shooting, but not actually showing that on screen. (If you ever see a hunter running around holding a spear like it is a bow.. you see what I mean). This means you cannot rely on what you see on screen to keep your timing in shooting correct.. I have to rely on the release sound of the arrow. (twoing!) Try doing that when there's fighting all over the place.

The fumble rate for archers is 10% -- highest in the game for anyone. Regardless of how good you are with it (I have Composite Bow skill at 65), I fumble 10%) of the time.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Tranquil-


That doesn't happen even nearly as close with casters as with archers and their arrows. Also don't forget the ritual-like mouseclicking to get each and every shot off, the longer drawtime, to HAVE to buy arrows to be able to attack. Would be fun to see casters having to quit the group with the message; "sorry, out of power, need to buy more potions". The bow fumbles 10 times before someone fumbles with melee. Not to mention missed Critical Shots, that are supposed to be extra well lined shots thus having greater drawtime. Also Critical Shots cannot be shot at running targets, bolts can. Not to mention the base chance for an unspecced shield wearer of 30% to block arrows(can reach 60% with high shield spec), and the 99% chance to block arrows with Engage at shieldspec 7. DD's can still be fired, arrows can't. Oh, and casters can crit on bolts aswell, archers can't crit on the Crit shot.

Just showing you some of the things you have to be aware of.. It's not that bad, I've grown used to it.

You may continue..

Actually, bolts use the exact same code as critical shots now. (and are badly broken)
They don't have fumbles admittedly and ignore bladeturn but they're utterly utterly useless on anything other than cloth casters.
Don't forget the ritual-like mouse-clicking to fire a spell (ok so it's not 3 times per shot that annoys me as my merc, but can't think of any other way they could do it... maybe an auto-fire that means every time you shoot it reloads? every time you're ready to shoot it fires? moving breaks it? they have style queues now so why not arrow queues )

In return you get armour something very helpful
Grass ain't that green over here you know (and I'm sure it's not exactly lush over there too) just a trick of the light.