The RVR community: A plea for diversity

Discussions lately both here thread 1, here thread 2 and here thread 3 have got me thinking about just who was the community and how could one know when one is playing that one was in the community?

To be clear lets make a very important distinction. Being in community is not the same thing as the community I can be in the community on an ML raid but that does not mean that what I am doing is essentially the community. The 'community' is something over and above any one session in game, it is that thing people talk about - some claim to represent the community. The community - who defines it and who represents it is political. Anyone who pretends in each of the threads I cited above that it is otherwise is deeply mistaken.

One of the expressions that we are in community is the existance of these forums. Here we get to share - hopefully as constructively as possible our views of 'being in community'. 'Being in community' however is full of emotion and adrenalin. So we often see for example a 'bitter sweet symphony', a cacophony of discordance on these very boards. Clearly being in community is full of the flux of everyday gaming experience. When we are here we are as much 'in community' and no one person here has a right to claim what the community is.

In this thread we have both people 'in community' relating their experiences and people making claims to represent that community. In all of these pages discordance comes from the claims people make that this zone is this and from the opposition who conversely claims that it is not. Clearly no-one has a right to claim that it is add free but I put it to you that no-one has a right to claim otherwise as well. Would it not have been better to engage in a meaningful dialogue? Learn to share experiences? What can people lose?

The thread is a great illustration of people feeling they have some political right to say that the place is this or that and others struggling to just be in community with each other. Corran for example engages very positively and Slayn makes an excellent point that hit the nub of the debate that being in community is not the same thing as the overall representation of it.

It is definitely piss funny when Slayn presents evidence to counter some of the rather cantankerously made claims in the thread. Posting the video lightened the mood considerably. It felt like we were back 'in community' sharing and discussing things and we had got away from divisive debates. It was fairly obvious people were going to be teased and there was no real flame just a bit of banter.

We continue to try and share our experiences with one of the parties involved to try and begin to see how they understand the game. The reply clearly indicates that there will be no sharing - that person clearly did not care about being in community in this case. Maybe the video was upsetting - if so why not say so?

Instead being in community (chatting and asking questions) stops and a person claims right to do what they like by saying that if one pays ones subs one has a right to play as they like. Not only this but shortly afterwords the thread is locked and the people who were being challenged were the ones who locked the thread. I followed advice and pm'ed both the person involved and Flim to protest and whilst Flim was very polite as always and his comments are fair <as always > In the end however the outcome leaves me for one with a real sense of dissatisfaction and a feeling that we wasted an opportunity to really get accross to each other..

So what do I want to say? Once claims are made that someone has an absolute right to do what they like in the space of the game then that attitude will eventually destroy the community. Attitudes like this have no place when we are trying to share being 'in community'. I am not making this as a universal claim but I offer it as a challenge to meaningfully engage and to stop chlidish bitching and avoidance of real debate that was so evident in that thread. Some of the people who do this are community leaders, I am pleading with you to try and engage in the community more effectively by setting an decent example.

Further to this, if these boards are to be of value to any of us we have to be able to understand why people behave the way they do. So when expectations are dissappointed in the space of the game and a group break what are undeniably emergent codes of practice at least one knows why and in some small way one can begin to see the other side of the discussion. One can become less dissappointed in community.

The issue, Flim, is not about who has a justified right to claim anything its about how we learn to relate to each other.

Ebenezer has it right when he says many many times that there are many ways to experience DAOC - why limit ourselves to only one or two experiences?

The same goes for these forums, why limit your engagement with other perspectives by attacking people personally and insisting on a god given right to do what you like?

I mean no ill to anyone here. I just feel that people should not be fearful of opening up and having the discussion, they have so much to gain and very little to lose. Its a kind of plea for tolerance of diversity and being in the community relating to each other in many different ways. If you are up to doing it the first rule you have to learn is that there can be no privilaged view point and that only through communication and being in this together can things improve.

with respect

Sharkith

p.s. I hope this is not too long the first draft was over double the length!

Wow. That's some serious talking there, Sharkith, I can't say that I've read it all, cause, well..I didn't. But I skimmed the text a bit, and the things that I've read, I liked.

Sharkith said:

I just feel that people should not be fearful of opening up and having the discussion, they have so much to gain and very little to lose. Its a kind of plea for tolerance of diversity and being in the community relating to each other in many different ways.

Click to expand...

This is just very well said.

im not sure what your point is, my english isnt good enough for that, but:

there are 2 different communitys in cluster at the moment. 1) the people playing the game as it was 'intended', enjoying all aspects of the rvr and pve. 2) the people playing daoc for one reason, be it solo fights, fg fights etc.

now this is old news, but judging from your post, the last group isnt that 'ignorant', or such; they very well know people enjoy different things in daoc, and most would want to be able to do that themselves. but this group of people stopped enjoying 'mass-rvr' at some point, and even if they would want to enjoy it again, its just not possible once you've crossed that line.

the second group is thus the one that is loudest on irc/fh/ingame and such, because its the most competitive one, daoc is more a sport then a game for them. and with sports comes rules, and morals, and that is why you see alot of threads that might seem rediculous when you see daoc as a game.

again, not sure if any of that was what you meant but..

hotlikelava said:

im not sure what your point is, my english isnt good enough for that, but:

there are 2 different communitys in cluster at the moment. 1) the people playing the game as it was 'intended', enjoying all aspects of the rvr and pve. 2) the people playing daoc for one reason, be it solo fights, fg fights etc.

now this is old news, but judging from your post, the last group isnt that 'ignorant', or such; they very well know people enjoy different things in daoc, and most would want to be able to do that themselves. but this group of people stopped enjoying 'mass-rvr' at some point, and even if they would want to enjoy it again, its just not possible once you've crossed that line.

the second group is thus the one that is loudest on irc/fh/ingame and such, because its the most competitive one, daoc is more a sport then a game for them. and with sports comes rules, and morals, and that is why you see alot of threads that might seem rediculous when you see daoc as a game.

again, not sure if any of that was what you meant but..

Click to expand...

The point I am making is that no-one group has a right to claim things should be one way (and this is the killer for some people) or the other . You cannot claim special privilige because you dress up what you do in game with the claim 'as intended' niether can you claim that non-adding is the way it should be.

What I am asking for is more sharing of views and more open non-flame discussion. I know the post was long but it had to be said.

dont think anyone is claiming anything.

maybe they just highlight particular lame things about their nemesis playstyle alter-ego's.

The shit heads tend to say leet people sux and leetism ruins the game. Whereas the leet people dont give a shit about the shit heads, but they "know" the shit heads ruin the game.

And in the middle of all this chaos is one noble ranger getting on with his job of making the realm a safer and happier place for hibernia.....

very well said shark
And hopefully all sides are ready to take in what you said and ready to discuss it in a mature way. good initiative.
over and out..

Maybe I've caught entirely the wrong end of the stick with your post here Sharkith (the replies seem to indicate this is what you were meaning but perhaps they've misunderstood you too).

You're asking for room for diversity in posting? for the ability to post what you feel no matter how you play the game.

Is it just me that finds this an odd way to defend add whine - what is essentially a bullying tactic employed by a small minority of the game playing populace in order to suppress people playing the game in a perfectly legal manner.

If you're trying to say that stomping out add whine is possibly as bad as add whine (trying to stop adding) in the first place then I see where you're coming from however I completely disagree.

Firstly, Noone is subjected to abuse for posting add whine, they are asked to stop and their posts are removed. Same cannot be said for those who "enforce" their no-adding rules.

Secondly, the rules of this forum were there when you signed up. The rules of "adding" or not adding (or in a more generic sense "lame playstyle") are not written anywhere or agreed upon by anyone except the person venting at that particular time.

Flimgoblin said:

Maybe I've caught entirely the wrong end of the stick with your post here Sharkith (the replies seem to indicate this is what you were meaning but perhaps they've misunderstood you too).

You're asking for room for diversity in posting? for the ability to post what you feel no matter how you play the game.

Is it just me that finds this an odd way to defend add whine - what is essentially a bullying tactic employed by a small minority of the game playing populace in order to suppress people playing the game in a perfectly legal manner.

If you're trying to say that stomping out add whine is possibly as bad as add whine (trying to stop adding) in the first place then I see where you're coming from however I completely disagree.

Firstly, Noone is subjected to abuse for posting add whine, they are asked to stop and their posts are removed. Same cannot be said for those who "enforce" their no-adding rules.

Secondly, the rules of this forum were there when you signed up the rules of "adding" or not adding (or in a more generic sense "lame playstyle") are not written anywhere or agreed upon by anyone except the person venting at that particular time.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Flim,

I am not asking for any change in the forums I am asking for the people who post here to try and see what it is that is causing the grief. I am also arguing that if they focussed more on trying to share their in game experiences here and trying to find ways to maximise those experiences that the diversity would possibly benefit everyone in game. Why? Well because we would look for ways to accomodate all of the very different styles of playing in order to try and maximise our in game time.

An ingame environment that presented lots of options and diversity for game play would promote eveyones ability to enjoy the game. All this arguing about camps and in game tribal groups. About who is right and who is wrong is frankly blocking that from happening.

When people enagage in communication here and they make claims about "the community" they are typically trying to generalise and to construct a community as how they would like to see it. More often than not those generalisation are used to constrain others and what is worse they come from an individuals very narrow experience of the game and so they cannot be universally valid.

The point is that when people make these claims you can decide to a) try to assess the validity of those claims or b) notice that in fact all the claims do is block people from sharing their experience and perhaps engaging in productive enterprise in generating more possibilities for game play. They retreat to the justification of those views and stop thinking about the other person behind the other claim.

So Flim what I am essentially doing is actually asking for people to recognise that in fact the things they think are universally relevant are not actually that relevant to everyone. I am asking for tolerance so people will have the guts to recognise that no one of these universal constructions of the community is sacrosanct and that there is an easier path that involves sharing ones experience and explaining why one feels like they do. Then doing something about it - it also means that where there are infringements that perhaps people should consider modifying the space.

There are loads of Agramons all over the world and I bet there are some very nice variations in how they are played. That possibility for diversity is what makes both the game and the people playing there very special.

The right to not have adds is not a universal sacrosanct thing. Equally claiming that just because one pays ones fees that one can do what they like is not a universal sacrosanct thing. Yet if people who take these stances would recognise that the different view is not what is important but that the solution they all create (not matter how imperfect) was something they did through negotiation that we would have a more tolerant community.

Finally, you seem to think that I have attacked your forum rules. In fact I have not. I am delighted with the rules it is just as you know there were a few recent accidents with moderation - but like you said to me you have a new team and all I can do is wish you guys all the best.

Flimgoblin said:

Maybe I've caught entirely the wrong end of the stick with your post here Sharkith (the replies seem to indicate this is what you were meaning but perhaps they've misunderstood you too).

You're asking for room for diversity in posting? for the ability to post what you feel no matter how you play the game.

Is it just me that finds this an odd way to defend add whine - what is essentially a bullying tactic employed by a small minority of the game playing populace in order to suppress people playing the game in a perfectly legal manner.

If you're trying to say that stomping out add whine is possibly as bad as add whine (trying to stop adding) in the first place then I see where you're coming from however I completely disagree.

Firstly, Noone is subjected to abuse for posting add whine, they are asked to stop and their posts are removed. Same cannot be said for those who "enforce" their no-adding rules.

Secondly, the rules of this forum were there when you signed up. The rules of "adding" or not adding (or in a more generic sense "lame playstyle") are not written anywhere or agreed upon by anyone except the person venting at that particular time.

Click to expand...

All true and fair but alot of whines thread do lead people to start off discussions, which are good to read when your suppose to be doing work

If you want discussions i suggest that we have to find new forums to use, because nothing is going to change here

expect this post to be deleted also so quote it xD

Eyres said:

If you want discussions i suggest that we have to find new forums to use, because nothing is going to change here

expect this post to be deleted also so quote it xD

Click to expand...

to the contrary what has to change here is not the moderation nor the rules but the way in which we communicate.

Why not present a problem discuss it and try to reach solutions to various issues instead of being all gehy claiming that I am right and you are wrong and all that shite?

Oh and Censi Rangers are so last week and you know it!

ibtl!

Sharkith said:

to the contrary what has to change here is not the moderation nor the rules but the way in which we communicate.

Why not present a problem discuss it and try to reach solutions to various issues instead of being all gehy claiming that I am right and you are wrong and all that shite?

Oh and Censi Rangers are so last week and you know it!

Click to expand...

its been a long time since ive seen a decent discussion here, mostly because the people that are left playing the game are either fed up of the rediculous modding on here or are actually banned.

For what i see the modding is bias and inconsistent and well...... run by members of the albion zerg community which is EXACTLY what isnt needed because if RVR was zerg zerg zerg which is somtimes there opinion of how rvr should be when its suited to them and when its also suited to them its "we dont add m8s" (haha xD) Anyway as i was saying if RVR was zerg zerg zerg, there wouldnt be any discussions because rvr would be dull as hell..... and thats why there are no discussions because anything intresting to discuss doesnt suit the zerg community and is locked or deleted

didnt even mention names and guilds, as if i need to but we will see how long an opinion stays undeleted

Not being funny, but you cant dictate what people should think or say. People are different, and have different ways of expressing their opinion / actions.

I personally dont like constant bitching and moaning but, im not going to tell someone how they should behave, unless of course they break rules, then they will be dealt with accordingly.

I do think the forum 'moderation' has gone a bit over the top recently. In cases where people are actually insulting individuals, guilds, or other groups of people then its fair enough to ban them, same goes for anything that is explicitly against the forum rules. However this is not cause to delete or lock a thread, even if 80% of it is insults, then warn/ban those 80% of people, and delete the messages if needbe, but don't lock it for the 20% of genuine people.

It seems that certain mods are now locking certain threads simply because you disagree with the poster or prevalent opinion in the thread, which is taking it too far. If an 'add whine' thread for example is not directed at anyone in particular, the poster may be intending it constructively by trying to show people how if they refrain from adding in certain cases it will ultimately benefit them. Whether or not you agree with this should not matter, and even if certain posts seem 'obviously' wrong to your mind, you should remember that many of these issues are entirely subjective, so there is indeed no 'correct' view on them.

Eyres said:

its been a long time since ive seen a decent discussion here, mostly because the people that are left playing the game are either fed up of the rediculous modding on here or are actually banned.

For what i see the modding is bias and inconsistent and well...... run by members of the albion zerg community which is EXACTLY what isnt needed because if RVR was zerg zerg zerg which is somtimes there opinion of how rvr should be when its suited to them and when its also suited to them its "we dont add m8s" (haha xD) Anyway as i was saying if RVR was zerg zerg zerg, there wouldnt be any discussions because rvr would be dull as hell..... and thats why there are no discussions because anything intresting to discuss doesnt suit the zerg community and is locked or deleted

didnt even mention names and guilds, as if i need to but we will see how long an opinion stays undeleted

Click to expand...

I disagree. There are lots of people left obviously. And most of the people banned are people that DO spam the forum with crap. You can disagree with that and say that what they post is very beneficial and intresting read. But its not their forum and if they feel the need to post what they want and you say they are not here anyways...im sure they are all on irc or chat with eachother somewhere else. I see them around in a lot of other threads and now and again they appear as guest stars in a thread and still try to spam a bit. So they are indeed still here The reason to have a forum for the WHOLE comunity in daoc should be to discuss and post related stuff that people can benefit from...and i think that is the mods opinion also. I seen pretty much the most threads that are being locked, i 90% of the time its stuff that dont belong imo...and obviously not in the mods either. But sometimes i think that the people that do get banned and spam a lot doesnt even want a forum to discuss like mature people. i think they just wanna spam. Im happy that thats not what this forum is for, cause then i wouldnt even read it at all. And shark me and i think many others are tired of seeing the same discussions being trashed to pieces everytime by someone that cant keep their pent up emotions and have to puke it all over the thread so that it gets closed. So at least i hope that people will for once consider discuss instead of spam...cause this isnt getting anywhere
over and out..

Sharkith said:

Thanks for the reply Flim,

Click to expand...

Good response Thank you for clearing up my confusion - I agree totally

The quality of posting in FH has seriously dropped over a short period of time - Alexandrinus's effort at pointing out that all we see now are gratz threads is a great example of why - instead of prompting some interesting debate it got take over by the IBTL crew or yet more flaming.

Everyone who comes to this forum knows what is judged to be acceptable or not - you may not like it and may not agree with it but you know what it is. I visit this forum so infrequently now because there is so little of interest to read or comment on - and that which is there gets taken over far too quickly by the wrong type of comment that it never gets a chance to develop properly.


I am not in the blame game - but it is in all our power to make a sensible effort toward self control and open mindedness and give the genuinely interesting thoughts or opinions a chance to develop or ferment into the heady and alcoholic threads we used to see.

As for Shark - jeez mate you got too much free time on your hands :worthy:

Best get yerself on and save my butt some more.

ebenezer said:

I disagree. There are lots of people left obviously. And most of the people banned are people that DO spam the forum with crap. You can disagree with that and say that what they post is very beneficial and intresting read. But its not their forum and if they feel the need to post what they want and you say they are not here anyways...im sure they are all on irc or chat with eachother somewhere else. I see them around in a lot of other threads and now and again they appear as guest stars in a thread and still try to spam a bit. So they are indeed still here The reason to have a forum for the WHOLE comunity in daoc should be to discuss and post related stuff that people can benefit from...and i think that is the mods opinion also. I seen pretty much the most threads that are being locked, i 90% of the time its stuff that dont belong imo...and obviously not in the mods either. But sometimes i think that the people that do get banned and spam a lot doesnt even want a forum to discuss like mature people. i think they just wanna spam. Im happy that thats not what this forum is for, cause then i wouldnt even read it at all. And shark me and i think many others are tired of seeing the same discussions being trashed to pieces everytime by someone that cant keep their pent up emotions and have to puke it all over the thread so that it gets closed. So at least i hope that people will for once consider discuss instead of spam...cause this isnt getting anywhere
over and out..

Click to expand...

A few people who spam have gone, but the forum having nothing of intrest speaks for itself, ofcourse the idiots are going to get banned, but people who dont deserve it get banned simply because the mod disliked them, for example jjorah got banned with no reason stated for trying to start a thread with discussed adding, it was clearly not add whine, but the mod using any excuse to ban someone they have disagreed with or dislike, moronic

make a new forum, not that hard tbh.. look at prydwen.net its gone major down-hill imho to over-modding/moving threads....whats the most ppl u see on there these days? 5-10, where one time is was nearly perma 20+... and no it dont cost dat much.... this forum getting like some of the IRC channels lately... do i care....... and now we have 16 mods like wtf

add whine - what is essentially a bullying tactic employed by a small minority of the game playing populace in order to suppress people playing the game in a perfectly legal manner.

Click to expand...

rofl flim.

poor little innocent Mr adder who does it in the name of his realm and in the spirit of the game. He is a nice guy irl, down to earth and sensible, doesnt take daoc too seriously and just plays with the simple object of killing opponents.

One word "buuuuulshit". That person does not exist. In my experience most compulsive adders are like either younger players, inexperienced players, bad players with absolutly zero confidence in their toon or all of the above, and if you do get the chance to ever talk to them they are like morons, haha I pwned you!!!, and you get 500 rofl spams from them as their fg steamrollers u mid fight. And on the other hand the people who tend not to add on me are the ones who have generally have a good sense of humour and are nice to talk to on irc (ie good kill well played mate if they loose, and vice versa back to them if they win), been playing the game longer and are usually reaonsably acomplished and strong players. I can give u a shit load of examples.

your view of this stereo typical nice guy adder and the leetist bully is so far from the truth. you really do need a reality check.

lol..censi...how can you even make such an idiotic generalisation. That was prolly the weakest post you ever made. And your opinions are borderlining on getting racist for real. Not only are you going on about the people being ingame idiots but also that theyr are morons and idiots all of them in rl....sigh. People like you are the ones "ur" camp dont need if they ever wanna be understood..
pathetic...
over and out..

Censi what is so depressing is that you have not read or don't seem to have understood one thing I have said. All you are doing is responding to the generalisation with your own form of generalisation. You are a decent player with a wealth of knowledge about the game, why can't you stop whining at other peoples generalisations and get fucking real that the game you want is not going to emerge without you starting to take a constructive approach and it will take more than you to do it.

The soloer problem is the biggest problem in this game, trying to sort out a solution would suit you a fucking hell of a lot more than whining at Flim who was simply seeking clarification from me. I have clarifyed my post for Flim and all you are doing here is muddying a perfectly good discussion with needless generalisation.

Sorry Censi with the utmost of respect you done all the effort and thought that has gone into this thread a serious disservice. Please try and face the challenge rather than sticking your head in the sand of all the cultural stereotypes that float around here like shit in a toilet.

Look sorry mate if I am getting flamy but I am getting frustrated with this. Why can't people see it? It is not that hard to see just debating each others generalisation is keeping you away from trying to change the way you experience the game as a group.

Sharkith

ok i must admit i didnt read your post very cleanly. There was far to much abstract stuff in there about "the community" (john grisham style).

you need to cut to the chase with making your points. You are far to vague.

Basically after reading you are saying (disclaimer: I think) that our forum moderators are restricting the views of the player base with the manner in which they moderate.

If this is the case, then yes I completly agree. In a competative game which is basically what daoc RVR is, then theres going to be a lot of testosterone flying around in posts. this is fine this is what its all about. really the mods just need to cut out abusive language and thats its. The potency of anybodies post is always proportional to its parity to the truth. In other words if someone talks random trash talk about a person or a group of people, the mods dont need to step in, if its bollaxs "the community" knows its bollaxs from their own in game experiences, and that person is lowering his credability.

what we have at the moment is mods who are basically biased. They are biased towards their way of thinking (which sounds like an obvious statement), but basically this goes completly against what a moderator does and what moderation means. They are offering "in my opinion" a certain amount of protection to players who "the community" might not have much respect for and want to voice that here.

the FH "RVR" forum has slowly been shaped into a place where you cannot make negative comments about people, who deserve negative comments within an RVR context. The "aggramonday" post is an absolute peach of an example. I mean after the Avi file was linked no one was rude or abusive just some nice emotes and some lighthearted comments about the pure "pwnage" factor of the link versus beeks typically deluded lies. Yet the post was closed off. The fact the mod happens to be in the "shamed" guild has nothing to do with it ofc. This was a perfectly light hearted discussion about agramon RVR, yet the neutral moderator didnt like it.

not much more you can say tbh, cept we are stuck with the mods. Just have to be careful about what you say about certain guilds. Ive already gotten these warnings for basically posting my opinions of people in certain guilds and yet other posts Ive said far worse things and got no warnings. Also the ones I get warnings for about certain guilds seen generate "rep" spams, so I know theres other people out there that agree.

it was a good post, my stuff about adding was a little off the beaten track, my apolagies.

censi said:

One word "buuuuulshit". That person does not exist. In my experience most compulsive adders are like either younger players, inexperienced players, bad players with absolutly zero confidence in their toon or all of the above, and if you do get the chance to ever talk to them they are like morons, haha I pwned you!!!,

Click to expand...

If you consider Shark 'far too vague' then I consider you the biggest generaliser on these forums.

FYI : theres a difference between generalising and being vague.

Don't think Sharks post had that much to do with the mods tbf. It has more to do with how people act in threads & how the whole polarisation of RvR crowds as led to a 'I'm right - you're wrong & therefore I'm holier than thou' (which is usually prefaced & suffixed by insults, random taunts & general muck flinging).

People claim to have the moral high ground on both sides ('the game was designed this way & we pay our subs so we'll do what we want !!!!' vs. 'it's a game of skill & respect of the enemy & the rest of you are skill-less (insert random insult)). Shark's suggesting that instead of standing on your respective moral high grounds & flinging crap at each other (as that's hardly a moral high ground is it), you take the time to actually talk to each other & come to some agreement. There's room in this game for everyone & as a 'community' we should be able to talk about it & work it out.

Yes everyone pays their own subs - however by doing whatever you want & damn the consequences you're affecting someone else who pays their subs & wants to do what they want. So constructive debate & try & come to some resolution.

BTW - Shark, aren't you supposed to be doing some work, or writting something important. Not that trying to bring peace, calm & general well being to these inhabitants here isn't a good cause to fight for if you feel like it?

Fantastic first post
If I could give you a special mod award I would.

I'd ask that you guys recongise that we have a new team and they arn't all totally up to speed as we haven't sorted them access to the mods room yet.

Personally I agree that FH standards have gone down, I that thats partially due to a change in the community. However, my personal opinion is that the rule against addwhine and stuff is a bit ott, however, as a mod, I have to enforce it anyway. As I see it, friendly "banter" between realms is fine.
As a mod its a fine line to tread between closing a thread that should be locked and appearing biased. If you do something that could look even slightly biased, everybody jumps on you with accusations of "omg nazi mod" etc.

Lets see where this discussion goes, mabey I'll make a poll seeing if people want to remove restrictions. However I do agree with flim that its shit where whenever someone posts in any thread, a hoard of people follow them yelling "adder" etc. That shouldnt happen imo, but friendly chit chat is fine tbh.

Tilda said:

If you do something that could look even slightly biased, everybody jumps on you with accusations of "omg nazi mod" etc.

Click to expand...

"No one ever said it was gonna be easy"... but enough of the Inspiral Carpets. You can't win as a mod, you either over-mod, under-mod, or get it right. When you get it right no-one ever notices & therefore no ones says thanks, when you get it wrong you get shot down like a zeppelin.

ok in a friendly banter kind of way (not being sarcastic either) personally think having 2 mods in same guild that happens to like adding, but enforce a no add post policy at same time, is a bit of a proverbial piss take.