Zercenary... it sounds good to me :)

[klavrynd]

1. I have had 6 level 50's in the past, all rr5+, and I have been >playing since 1.45. k? So I'm not some brand new guy, I know
>what I'm talking about. I've seen zerkers in action for near as
>long as you've been playing one.

the point i was making was a different one, see point 5



> 2. <snip>

>3. The alternatives are better at their own thing. Zerker is still
> great at what it does.

in 1.62 savages take over the "big hit melee machine" title from zerk, which is now a bm without shield or thrustspec and an imo gimped merc

zerk was the backbone of the meleegroup, now it's savage, and savages will get spots in groups over zerks because of their utility


>4. You may not be a FOTM. But you're damn well acting like one. >You're running out on the class that you haven't even played
>post-fix.

see above

>5. So by your own words, even you aren't able to say what's
>valid and what's not. Because you haven't even seen the patch
>yet.

it they're talking percentages then my damage isn't going to be worth shit all, and again see point 3

 

[Trinilim]

Re: Re: Zercenary... it sounds good to me

Originally posted by Mikal
I have a couple of points I'd like to point out for you. The "zerker haste effect" is a major part of berserkers damage. reducing the speed difference on your two weapon will in fact reduce your damge over time. lemme explain this quickly. Your actual swing speed when using left axe will be the average speed of your two weapons, your basedamage will scale down accordingly to this, BUT your stylebonus will not, so while you can have an actualy swing speed of 3.3 using a double blade axe and a handaxe your damage bonus will be based on the 4.2spd doublebladed axe
Lots of zerkers/sb's go for the cleaver/weighted bearded axe combo for extra imbue points, but I think stepping down to the 3.0 spd dwarven shortsword will reduce your damage too much.

right, I knew that, it's the whole imbuement point thing though :\

You're right though, damage will be decreased significantly because I'll be using a 3.0 spd other than a 4.1 spd. However, what I'm hoping for is that speed will make up for that difference .

Originally posted by Mikal

tbh I never understood why any melee class would not put quickness on their templates, according to Solid, the jedi master who is always correct, quickness lower the style bonus on your attacks and raises your attack speed (so still same stylebonus over time) but it doesn
t change your basedamage, which means you will hit faster with the same basedamage which is more damage over time, and especially with the nerf to LA styles so berserkers will be more dependant on their basedamage it will be important for them to have as much quickness as possibly.

Because most people think that because they get a really high number on one hit, means they're doing awesome damage (which they are, but just for that hit). When they can get the same damage spread out over several hits, reducing the chances of getting <insert random defense here>ed.

Originally posted by Mikal

and you will be affect by the nerf just as much as everyone else, as you say yourself 30% of 200 is less then 30% of 400, but you will be hitting faster so more hits will be affected by the damage reduction. Say you hit twice every time a normal zerker hits once, 30% off 200 + 30% off 200 = 30% off 400, so in the end your attack speed wont mean a thing on that issue.

True, however, I don't know the average amount of damage I'll be doing . If instead I do 300 per hit and hit twice as fast as a person doing 400 a hit, I'll be doing a lot more damage, even after the 30% reduction.

-(300/100*30)*2 + 600 = 420
-(400/100*30)*2 + 400 = 380

Originally posted by Mikal

However, I do think it's nice to see someone trying out different ideas, so by all means go for it, just don't be disappointed if he doesn't live up to your exspectations.

All in all I'm hoping for good results, if not, then hey, what do I lose? A couple plat that I can get back again in no time

 

[klavrynd]

Because most people think that because they get a really high number on one hit, means they're doing awesome damage (which they are, but just for that hit). When they can get the same damage spread out over several hits, reducing the chances of getting <insert random defense here>ed.

4 big hits are less easy healed then 8 smaller ones, even though they do the same damage over time

 

[old.Elrond]

dont forget the shadowblades

 

[mordia]

Re: Re: Zercenary... it sounds good to me

Originally posted by Mikal
[Btbh I never understood why any melee class would not put quickness on their templates, according to Solid, the jedi master who is always correct, quickness lower the style bonus on your attacks and raises your attack speed (so still same stylebonus over time) but it doesn
t change your basedamage, which means you will hit faster with the same basedamage which is more damage over time, and especially with the nerf to LA styles so berserkers will be more dependant on their basedamage it will be important for them to have as much quickness as possibly.[/B]

Because in assisting melee groups you want to frontload as usually your opponent is down in few rounds.

 

[midmaster]

Originally posted by Omniscieous
LA is NOT getting nerfed, it's being fixed and brought on par with the other realms.

Ahh the horrid alb mantra. 'Your class is fine, i.e cannonfodder'.

Read some boards over in the U.S and you will see the horrific effects it has especially on sb's, who now are an endangered species. And infs are pawning ass like never before. Gee, that's balancing the game.

Since we are affected by the nerf, we probably have done a lot more research about this than any alb. And the nerfbat has struck like a ton of bricks, so Omniscieous, you have no clue. The style may have been overpowered, but it brought the sb's from being about equal to the infs to a sodding rp-cow. Plain fact.

 

[old.Emma]

I challanege any infiltrator to a duel in 1.62, with my SZ. i wont respec her, melee only, no PA/CD, if you use DF i`ll purge like wise if i land Frosty you can purge that, buffed or unbuffed duel not using envenom and i bet i`d loose horribly to even rr2 Infils.

 

[Wij]

I rolled a Troll Zerk last night. Even at lvl 7 this guy dishes out pain Will be interesting to see what the nerf actually does to him.

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by Omniscieous
Zerkers are now the light tank class they were supposed to be, similar to Blademasters and Mercenarys.

LA is NOT getting nerfed, it's being fixed and brought on par with the other realms.

True, but depending on how you look at it. With your reasoning there is no such thing as a 'nerf'. There is only 'bringing on par with the rest'.
Just a different choice of words.

While I am in favor of this 'whatever its called', I find it amazing that the ones bringing on these changes dont do so for everyone at once, the so-called balancing isnt happening. All that happens with these 'nerfs' or 'boosts' is just encouraging the powertripper-gamer to pay on and make more supercharacters to be 'uber' for a couple of months.
It really cant be too hard to look over all the styles and the realm abilities to balance everything out once and forall if you have a 30 or 60 people team of developers, now can it ?

The game gets broken with these tactics. Take now the zerker nerf. All the powertrippers who played a berserker will now roll a savage. Soon there will be tons of savages with super-gear, capped stats and pink buffs running around hitting people for insane amounts of damage.
Then people will start ( has alrdy begun ) to whine about it and in some time savages will get 'brought on par' and the powergamers will move on to destroy another class.

Someone posted here that its not individual small differences ( or even larger ) that make or break succesfull rvr, its total group effectiveness. So a savage in an 8-man group can only do so much.
Of course, if you have 5 savages ( or enchanters, or some other alledgedly overpowered class ) in a group, you will start to notice the problem.

Conclusion : If people would play a class because they like the class instead of playing the numbercrunchers and posting screenshots of their incredible damage, daoc would be a better place.

O fcourse, there is only one solution to the problem, and that is make the three realms identical, and even then every fotm-player would play the 'better' class in their realm creating an imbalance across the board. I don't like that scenario one bit, you ?

 

[scarffs]

Re: Re: Zercenary... it sounds good to me

Originally posted by Mikal
I have a couple of points I'd like to point out for you. The "zerker haste effect" is a major part of berserkers damage. reducing the speed difference on your two weapon will in fact reduce your damge over time. lemme explain this quickly. Your actual swing speed when using left axe will be the average speed of your two weapons, your basedamage will scale down accordingly to this, BUT your stylebonus will not, so while you can have an actualy swing speed of 3.3 using a double blade axe and a handaxe your damage bonus will be based on the 4.2spd doublebladed axe
Lots of zerkers/sb's go for the cleaver/weighted bearded axe combo for extra imbue points, but I think stepping down to the 3.0 spd dwarven shortsword will reduce your damage too much.

tbh I never understood why any melee class would not put quickness on their templates, according to Solid, the jedi master who is always correct, quickness lower the style bonus on your attacks and raises your attack speed (so still same stylebonus over time) but it doesn
t change your basedamage, which means you will hit faster with the same basedamage which is more damage over time, and especially with the nerf to LA styles so berserkers will be more dependant on their basedamage it will be important for them to have as much quickness as possibly.

and you will be affect by the nerf just as much as everyone else, as you say yourself 30% of 200 is less then 30% of 400, but you will be hitting faster so more hits will be affected by the damage reduction. Say you hit twice every time a normal zerker hits once, 30% off 200 + 30% off 200 = 30% off 400, so in the end your attack speed wont mean a thing on that issue.

However, I do think it's nice to see someone trying out different ideas, so by all means go for it, just don't be disappointed if he doesn't live up to your exspectations.

Totally correct. You *must* basically get a haevy mainhand and fast offhand because of this haste effect.
La mechanics are different from DW so Berserkers are pretty much obliged to do it or they lose a lot of damage.

 

[old.Trine Aquavit]

Originally posted by klavrynd
4 big hits are less easy healed then 8 smaller ones, even though they do the same damage over time

First, the point is they won't do the same damage over time. Haste increases base damage, so increases damage over time.

Second, how big the hits are doesn't affect how easy it is to heal. The biggest factor is the rate of damage, and a hasted meleer will do more damage. I'd rather heal 1600 HPs from 4 hits of 400 than 1750 HPs from 5 hits of 350 in the same time.

Finally, when you bring healing into the equation the benefits of haste are even more significant. Front-loaded damage falls apart when the target is being healed. A hasted attacker will always do better against a healed target (or a target with pbt) than an unhasted one, because they are doing more damage.

Haste is pretty much always a good thing unless you only hit people once.