Zercenary... it sounds good to me :)

[Trinilim]

The trend of zerkers for the past year+ has always been the old Axe/LA "I do ub3r 1337 DMG!!111" (for 90% of the zerkers out there anyway).

Well I'm gonna split off from the pack and do something which may actually be much better than the original. Especially with the upcoming nerf to damage.

My plan is pretty simple, make the damage-dealing zerker class into a light tank like the other realms have. Fast as lightning hits like mercs and BMs, but more damage (always swing 2 weapons and harder hits), yet less defense (studded armor).

50 sword/50 LA

Dwarven short sword (3.3 or so spd) (not normal short sword because this is 16.5 dps, more SC points)
Weighted Bearded Sword (2.9 spd) (not handaxe because this is 16.5 dps, more SC points)

Capped quick on SC.


Sure I won't be hitting for 800+ in one hit. (then again pretty much no zerker will anymore post 1.62.) But I'll more than make up for it.

Plus, with the 30% decrease in damage, I'll hardly be phased by it. Cap speed = lower damage (200ish). Lower damage = less harmed by % decrease.

I'd like some input though midgard, tell me what ya think


NOTE: Mercs have been known to annihalate S/S paladins/armsmen hands down due to DW. Zerks should be able to do the same, if not more so (because we hit with both weapons every hit when using LA styles).

 

[old.Hardbein]

Frontload dmg > dmg over time ...imo

 

[snotfor]

Gl to u trini!
I for one have always been sword/la specced since i started 1½ years ago

 

[Sharma]

hmmmm, with a cleaver/Hand axe and 150 i can still snowsquall people for roughly 400+ dmg or so, not as much as trolls but tbh spamming it hurts any hoo and it takes up a tiny amount of end

 

[klavrynd]

I don't think it's viable since

a) you have shabby armour as opposed to merc
b) LA style damage is nerfed so you're still going to have the lower damage you respecced for
c) if you want damage over time, the h2h savage is a better alternative with evade 4 vs evade 3, selfbuffs, extra/specialised weapons but you get lower weaponskill
d) why bother, really? isn't 30% less damage enough a slap in the face to just leave the now broken class?

 

[Carnalito]

Is there no mids who think zerkers _ARE_ abit overpowered atm ?

 

[Sharma]

Well, ones with high quickness wont notice a MASSIVE damage decrease...30% of 400 is less than 30% of 600...

 

[Aule Valar]

Originally posted by klavrynd
d) why bother, really? isn't 30% less damage enough a slap in the face to just leave the now broken class?

or you could realise that just because a zerk is now merely a good light tank not the overpowed tank king doesn't mean its broken, instead of crying and going to roll another fotm class

 

[Sharma]

Klav actually played a zerk from the start so klav isnt a fotm :l

 

[old.Emma]

Klav was a zerker long before zerkers were even considered a good tank.

Hell thanes were more popular when klav rolled her zerker.

going fast/fast weapon combo as a zerker doesnt work you loose a huge ammount of DPS by doing so. yeah you will attackfast but with LA mechanics you might as well ship out a wet fish and stink the enemy to death cos you wont be doing much damage at all.

I`ll give you an idea.. with 35 qui, and 65 Sword/LA you`ll cap at only 300 dmg with doublefrost, with capped qui on a troll you`ll just scrape 258 dmg.

Thats only doublefrost i cant find the new 1.62 growth rates for LA yet.

 

[old.mattshanes]

Originally posted by old.Emma
Klav was a zerker long before zerkers were even considered a good tank.

Hell thanes were more popular when klav rolled her zerker.

going fast/fast weapon combo as a zerker doesnt work you loose a huge ammount of DPS by doing so. yeah you will attackfast but with LA mechanics you might as well ship out a wet fish and stink the enemy to death cos you wont be doing much damage at all.

I`ll give you an idea.. with 35 qui, and 65 Sword/LA you`ll cap at only 300 dmg with doublefrost, with capped qui on a troll you`ll just scrape 258 dmg.

Thats only doublefrost i cant find the new 1.62 growth rates for LA yet.

Bullshit,it will do more than 300...

New growth rate was about 0.74 or so for doublefrost yes?if so then cap will be 390-400... i have 372 or something with amethyst and that's 0.62 growth rate so.

 

[-ElemenT-]

Nerf you Matt!

 

[Sharma]

well my SS cap atm is 489...

with the 30% nerf inc 489 - 146.7 = 342.3 cap

still a good cap tbh :|

a trolls cap will be hmm, id say around 600ish since the difference in my quickness and theirs is massive

so 600 - 180 = 420

the nerf isnt THAT massively bad :|

342 cap dmg seems like an ok cap to me, as ill still SS on most yellows for mmm, about 240 which i can say is average damage

anyways, we can only speculate on cap dmg changes until it actually goes in, but when im using the 30% damage decrease im using the numbers i see on VN, 90% of the time the numbers on it are utter BS so we will just have to wait and see about the damage decrease, i can bet it wont be much, my cap will prob only move down like 50 damage points ;p

 

[klavrynd]

or you could realise that just because a zerk is now merely a good light tank not the overpowed tank king doesn't mean its broken, instead of crying and going to roll another fotm class

The only reason la got nerfed was because people got hit by 35qui trolls with huge crits and cried on vnboards


i'm norse, i don't do sorusi damage


and fyi mister excal, i was playing zerk back when people were whining over getting killed by mjolnir

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by klavrynd

d) why bother, really? isn't 30% less damage enough a slap in the face to just leave the now broken class?

Broken class? What broken class?

How about trying to adapt to it instead of giving up all hope. Hell the patch isn't even here yet and you've allready lost interest because you won't be doing obscene amounts of damage anymore.

Zerkers are horridly overpowered atm, and anyone who says otherwise is a blatant liar

They're fixed so that they're on track with other classes post 1.62.

And as for the armor thing.. It's like 15 AF and 5% or so absorb difference. That's not that big .

But anyways, once patch rolls around I'll tell ya how it handles .

 

[jammin0o]

Good luck mate! I wanna hear results :great:

 

[Jonaldo]

Zerkers are now the light tank class they were supposed to be, similar to Blademasters and Mercenarys.

LA is NOT getting nerfed, it's being fixed and brought on par with the other realms.

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
Bullshit,it will do more than 300...

New growth rate was about 0.74 or so for doublefrost yes?if so then cap will be 390-400... i have 372 or something with amethyst and that's 0.62 growth rate so.

Do the maths yourself then

using 3.0 spd dwarven short sword 16.5 dps, 2.9 spd weighted bearded axe 16.5 dps with 35 qui using doublefrost post nurf which has a growth rate of 0.72 on a troll with 35 quickness. Doublefrost caps at 300 dmg.

 

[Goryk]

I thought the whole idea of zerks was to use mismatch speed weapons to artificially increase the ratio of speed/damagecap anyway so your example isn't a good one is it? I'm fairly sure I've seen many mids use lower dps weapons in the offhand purely to increase the haste effect it is so useful. Then again, you are the same person who posted a screenie on the vnboards showing how uber slash infs were whilst not emntioning the fact your target was af debuffed, so I wouldn't be surprised if you were deliberately trying to misinform people

300 damage cap on a 3.0speed weapon does seem a touch low but nothing major. Add in the 20 or so percent natural haste effect if you use the right weapons and you are surely looking at around the same damage as a merc? You have of course, still got sword styles such as ragnarok which are pretty nice and not getting nerfed so I can't see why you are whining so much over this. We'll all know for sure next patch when we finally find out whether all that has been said is just bullshit posted by zerkers wanting to remain uber or if their claims are justified. I can't see it stopping me from levelling my zerker anyway... I do fine levelling using either LA or normal styles atm although I'm not high enough to experience how uber DF is so maybe thats why I'm not so worried about this nerf/balancing

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
Bullshit,it will do more than 300...

New growth rate was about 0.74 or so for doublefrost yes?if so then cap will be 390-400... i have 372 or something with amethyst and that's 0.62 growth rate so.

Your also using a slower weapon, are rr7 and have no penalty to basedamage like LA has. ohh and Amethyst Slash`s growth rate is 0.68 fyi.

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by Goryk
I thought the whole idea of zerks was to use mismatch speed weapons to artificially increase the ratio of speed/damagecap anyway so your example isn't a good one is it? I'm fairly sure I've seen many mids use lower dps weapons in the offhand purely to increase the haste effect it is so useful. Then again, you are the same person who posted a screenie on the vnboards showing how uber slash infs were whilst not emntioning the fact your target was af debuffed, so I wouldn't be surprised if you were deliberately trying to misinform people

300 damage cap on a 3.0speed weapon does seem a touch low but nothing major. Add in the 20 or so percent natural haste effect if you use the right weapons and you are surely looking at around the same damage as a merc? You have of course, still got sword styles such as ragnarok which are pretty nice and not getting nerfed so I can't see why you are whining so much over this. We'll all know for sure next patch when we finally find out whether all that has been said is just bullshit posted by zerkers wanting to remain uber or if their claims are justified. I can't see it stopping me from levelling my zerker anyway... I do fine levelling using either LA or normal styles atm although I'm not high enough to experience how uber DF is so maybe thats why I'm not so worried about this nerf/balancing

First of all..

wtf?

I don't even go to the VN boards??

Second of all..

What whine???

Third of all.

I'm trying to explain how this won't be effected by the nerf. In other words.. I'M SAYING ZERKERS WILL STILL BE VALID AFTER 1.62 .

But no one will know until it's been tested.

 

[Goryk]

Errm.. I wasn't even posting that in response to you.. I assumed if I didn't put a name in then everyone else would assume it was a direct response to the person above especially considering how I comment on things Emma posted.... guess not :> I'm even partly agreeing with you and think zerkers will be ok...

Edit: Just read my post. Guess I should have quoted to make sure people realised who/what I was talking about

 

[old.Emma]

My post was in relation to what Trilliun suggested as a possible weapon choice.

300 dmg cap on Doublefrost with only 35 qui is very low, but thats what is going to happen.

 

[old.mattshanes]

Originally posted by old.Emma
Your also using a slower weapon, are rr7 and have no penalty to basedamage like LA has. ohh and Amethyst Slash`s growth rate is 0.68 fyi.

It is?

http://home.nc.rr.com/obsidianguard/wyrd/Styles.htm

AND ZERKERS WILL HIT 500 STILL OR SO!!! there end of story!

It's not a bad nerf also what tril is saying may be ok so aslong as you like it who cares?

 

[old.mattshanes]

Originally posted by old.Emma
Do the maths yourself then

using 3.0 spd dwarven short sword 16.5 dps, 2.9 spd weighted bearded axe 16.5 dps with 35 qui using doublefrost post nurf which has a growth rate of 0.72 on a troll with 35 quickness. Doublefrost caps at 300 dmg.

Also i was refering to a 4.2 spd axe nevermind

 

[Goryk]

I still think that the haste effect and always hit of LA will make up for whatever happens to zerker base damage... but I'll wait and see before commenting further Obviously not got as much experience with zerks, but from what I've played they needed toning down a bit. My main problem really isn't with the zerk calss but with frontloading in general in this game, and the 100% crits on hideously growthrated fast 1H LA styles was a little overpowered in my opinion. A zerker in the current patch who ignored LA styles would be balanced in my opinion from what I've tested and thats what I'll be after next patch probably. LA will be for evade stun and damage variance only I guess but I'm happy with that. Just wish they hadn't toned it down so much with sb's as my inf on pryd went slash just to fight them, and now they won't be so much problem :/ Anyway I think zerks will live on... they'll probably still get whined at when someone gets hit for upto 1500 by a rat mode ragnaroking 2H sword user but thats the nature of this game

 

[klavrynd]

trini you just got your zerk to 50 or maybe not even that since he was 46 yesterday.

zerk might be "ok'ish" if you have a high rr 35qui troll with a nice buffbot, but all others are w-o-r-t-h-l-e-s-s.

the alternatives are better so why stick with it, or even go trough 10 mindnumbing malmolevels to try one out?

you're in no position to say they will stay valid as you haven't seen what "valid" is

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by klavrynd
trini you just got your zerk to 50 or maybe not even that since he was 46 yesterday.

zerk might be "ok'ish" if you have a high rr 35qui troll with a nice buffbot, but all others are w-o-r-t-h-l-e-s-s.

the alternatives are better so why stick with it, or even go trough 10 mindnumbing malmolevels to try one out?

you're in no position to say they will stay valid as you haven't seen what "valid" is

umm

1. I have had 6 level 50's in the past, all rr5+, and I have been playing since 1.45. k? So I'm not some brand new guy, I know what I'm talking about. I've seen zerkers in action for near as long as you've been playing one.

2. How do you know? Have you tried it? Odd, they said the same thing about mercs and ice wizzies a long time ago.. what a coincidence

3. The alternatives are better at their own thing. Zerker is still great at what it does.

4. You may not be a FOTM. But you're damn well acting like one. You're running out on the class that you haven't even played post-fix.

5. So by your own words, even you aren't able to say what's valid and what's not. Because you haven't even seen the patch yet.

 

[old.mattshanes]

I would swap dw for la even after the nerf,the growth rates are still higher so zerks will have higher cap than me with same qui.

 

[Mikal]

Originally posted by Trinilim
My plan is pretty simple, make the damage-dealing zerker class into a light tank like the other realms have. Fast as lightning hits like mercs and BMs, but more damage (always swing 2 weapons and harder hits), yet less defense (studded armor).

50 sword/50 LA

Dwarven short sword (3.3 or so spd) (not normal short sword because this is 16.5 dps, more SC points)
Weighted Bearded Sword (2.9 spd) (not handaxe because this is 16.5 dps, more SC points)

Capped quick on SC.


Sure I won't be hitting for 800+ in one hit. (then again pretty much no zerker will anymore post 1.62.) But I'll more than make up for it.

Plus, with the 30% decrease in damage, I'll hardly be phased by it. Cap speed = lower damage (200ish). Lower damage = less harmed by % decrease.

I'd like some input though midgard, tell me what ya think


NOTE: Mercs have been known to annihalate S/S paladins/armsmen hands down due to DW. Zerks should be able to do the same, if not more so (because we hit with both weapons every hit when using LA styles).

I have a couple of points I'd like to point out for you. The "zerker haste effect" is a major part of berserkers damage. reducing the speed difference on your two weapon will in fact reduce your damge over time. lemme explain this quickly. Your actual swing speed when using left axe will be the average speed of your two weapons, your basedamage will scale down accordingly to this, BUT your stylebonus will not, so while you can have an actualy swing speed of 3.3 using a double blade axe and a handaxe your damage bonus will be based on the 4.2spd doublebladed axe
Lots of zerkers/sb's go for the cleaver/weighted bearded axe combo for extra imbue points, but I think stepping down to the 3.0 spd dwarven shortsword will reduce your damage too much.

tbh I never understood why any melee class would not put quickness on their templates, according to Solid, the jedi master who is always correct, quickness lower the style bonus on your attacks and raises your attack speed (so still same stylebonus over time) but it doesn
t change your basedamage, which means you will hit faster with the same basedamage which is more damage over time, and especially with the nerf to LA styles so berserkers will be more dependant on their basedamage it will be important for them to have as much quickness as possibly.

and you will be affect by the nerf just as much as everyone else, as you say yourself 30% of 200 is less then 30% of 400, but you will be hitting faster so more hits will be affected by the damage reduction. Say you hit twice every time a normal zerker hits once, 30% off 200 + 30% off 200 = 30% off 400, so in the end your attack speed wont mean a thing on that issue.

However, I do think it's nice to see someone trying out different ideas, so by all means go for it, just don't be disappointed if he doesn't live up to your exspectations.