Your Face Or Mine?

[xane]

Originally posted by ECA
Your face is who you are. Don't mess.

Does that apply to make-up, piercings, even facial hair ?

It's a stupid argument when applied to people who have serious disfigurements caused by birth defects or injury. If people want it for purely cosmetic reasons then how does that differ from the surgery already being done today ?

Transplants might be "someone else", but no more than doner eyes, internal organs or even limbs.

These stupid social arguments getting in the way of progress are what causes people with facial disfigurements to lead such rotten lives in the first place.

 

[BrassMonkey]

Personally i don't agree with it. Your face is who you are and it's inherintly linked to your personality, look at a loved ones face and you instantly recognise their personality, facial expression, body language and so on. Now imagine it on a different body with a completely different personality? I know the chances of meeting someone who knew the donor's face are slim but imagine the horror of both parties if it happens.

I mean where exactly do we start drawing the line here? How long before midgets get replacement limbs to make them the correct proportion? Stupid idea I know but if you said this whole face idea 10 years ago people would probably have laughed.

 

[Chameleon]

I think it's a good idea. People get way too hung up on things they find a bit weird or sick concerning our bodies, even after death, like "ooo I don't mind being a donor, but not my eyes", for example
It goes without saying that everything would be done to prevent people coming across others with their dead friend/relatives face on. Besides, I think the reality of it would be that once the opertation is complete, the bone structure, facial mannerisms and other factors would significantly change the face.
As Xane said (iirc), you'd have to experience what it's like to be disabled/disfigured/etc before being remotely qualified to put up any "stupid social argument" against it.

 

[Will]

Originally posted by BrassMonkey
Personally i don't agree with it. Your face is who you are and it's inherintly linked to your personality, look at a loved ones face and you instantly recognise their personality, facial expression, body language and so on. Now imagine it on a different body with a completely different personality? I know the chances of meeting someone who knew the donor's face are slim but imagine the horror of both parties if it happens.

I mean where exactly do we start drawing the line here? How long before midgets get replacement limbs to make them the correct proportion? Stupid idea I know but if you said this whole face idea 10 years ago people would probably have laughed.

Remember that people would be donors, so would have given consent to have the transplant.

And imagine a world where peole who need transplants need transplants. Imagine doctors being able to choose appropriate treatment for their patients. Rather than a world where public opinion leads to knee jerk reactions (GM food anyone?).

 

[L_Plates]

Originally posted by Chameleon
As Xane said (iirc), you'd have to experience what it's like to be disabled/disfigured/etc before being remotely qualified to put up any "stupid social argument" against it.

Aswell as for it. Or do we just say its the best so that makes it the best ?

 

[Chameleon]

No, we try to ignore 'gut feelings' and social conditioning and hope the right decision is made for the right reason. If those in need of this treatment decided it wasn't for the best, of course their wishes would be upheld ....... they are hardly going to force someone elses face onto someone are they.

 

[Sichama]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3128203.stm

I don't know if the surgery in question would treat something like that, but to tell someone to continue living with it because otherwise it would not be nice that a relative or friend of the donor might see you in the street and be unhappy although that chance would be like winning the lotto is cruel and there shouldn't really be any objections to it.

On the other hand Ms. Lucas has her own view of things...

Oh and the comments at the end are as enlightening(sp) as the article itself...

 

[Tom]

Its interesting that quite a few people argue against this because of the effect it would have on others. I don't have anything against the procedure should it happen, although I do have concerns for the recepient, I would imagine they would need a strong stomach and some good councilling to get over the shock of having a different face.

Heh, can you imagine if Dr Nick Riviera was doing the surgery?

 

[xane]

Originally posted by BrassMonkey
Personally i don't agree with it. Your face is who you are and it's inherintly linked to your personality,

In essence your personality is largely developed on how people react to you, so a severe facial disfigurement would either make you at one of the extremes; either overly outgoing in an attempt to overcome the issue, or a withdrawn or defensive person ashamed to show their face.

Besides, people change their facial appearance to suit personality anyway, by adopting certain make-up, hairstyles, piercings and even tattoos, even headgear and such.

The argument against is facile. In a vast majority of situations the treatment is going to be given to those who really could use it, and in any case, if you had a reasonably good face and died young, perhaps someone would be willing to even pay for your face, which would go a way to helping any dependents you leave behind.

 

[Gekul]

I don't think it would have much of an effect on other people. The bone structure combined with the eyes would make the new face unrecognisable. Think of it has facial skin and muscle rather than someone's face.
The biggest problem would be to the recipient and those close to them, knowing that their face is, effectively, a dead persons. It would certainly require a lot of thought.

 

[BrassMonkey]

Originally posted by Sichama
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3128203.stm

Quote from that article that she herself says: " I'm not against plastic surgery... I decided that it wasn't my face that I wanted to change, but social attitudes "

And I couldn't agree more to be perfectly honest.

 

[DaGaffer]

Originally posted by Will
It would be bizarre for us to think about having our faces changed, but most people here (I assume) don't have the need for a face transplant. .

You've obviously not been to a BarryBeer have you?


*insults customers*

*runs away*

 

[Will]

Originally posted by DaGaffer
You've obviously not been to a BarryBeer have you?


*insults customers*

*runs away*

Err, I was awarded "furthest travelled BarryBeer attendee 2002"

 

[~Mobius~]

I would have no objection with leaving my face for other people. But of course there are problems of family members objecting, and the risk of an old women who thinks you are dead seeing someone walking down the road with your face, imagine how freaky that would be.

Has anyone seen the movie "Face Off" ?

 

[L_Plates]

Face Off whats that !!!

 

[rynnor]

Its interesting but there are plenty of problems with it - people with extensive facial disfigurement (i.e. through burns/acid etc) are very likely to have damage to the muscles/nerves and other soft tissues beneath the skin - this gives them a pretty poor chance of any kind of graft taking in the first place - secondly factor in the bodies immune response rejecting the graft - thirdly your unlikely to get a perfect fit - your likely to need sections of several faces to allow for things like differences in nose shape/cheekbones/lips etc.

Even if you manage to get most of the graft to stick if the person had extensive injuries beforehand its going to sit on their face like a cheap wax mask and theres likely to be extensive scarring from the procedure - thus the cosmetic effect of the procedure is likely to be minimal.

I dont see the big advantage of this over skin grafts from the patient themself (which lowers rejection chances).

Plus the grafting operation itself is very major surgery - you would have to remove all existing skin from the site before a graft could be attempted with no guarantee the graft will take...

The money spent developing this technique would be better spent on improving existing cosmetic techniques and counselling patients.

 

[Yoni]

I have to say the idea kinda phreaks me out from the perspective of how I would feel if a loved one were agree to a "face donation" and in the horrific event they died at an age where someone would want their face, it appeared on someone else. Yes the facial expressions would be different but if they were just looking you know when you wander then I am sure I would see the person I once cared for and go on to feel everything I used to feel for that person - a constant reminder of what you have lost.

Sorry but that would probably just send me into psychiatric care

 

[Gekul]

There are people that look similar to people you know already though. The shape would be different, the eyes would be different. Infact, those people would probably look more like your loved one than the patient who recieved their face.

Originally posted by rynnor
...people with extensive facial disfigurement (i.e. through burns/acid etc) are very likely to have damage to the muscles/nerves and other soft tissues beneath the skin - this gives them a pretty poor chance of any kind of graft taking in the first place - secondly factor in the bodies immune response rejecting the graft...

Originally posted by the bbc, in the link in the first post
They say improvements in anti-rejection drugs now make it possible.

The technique would involve removing facial muscles and skin from a dead donor and placing them on another person.

Technically, it's possible. They need to resolve the moral issues first.

 

[old.Dillinja]

I think it is a disgusting idea and should never be put into practise.

 

[Tilda]

I agree with Damini, I think it would be very very odd going to "sleep" one day with "your" (disfigured) face and then waking up after the operation with someone elses face on you. Although you would be in control of it, I cant even comprehend the feelings you'd go through getting used to your new look.

On a side note, wasnt there an old film where some spy had his face removed some captured spy's face transplanted onto his for a mission and then given his old face back?

Tilda

 

[CptDoom]

Wont plastic surgery have improved considerably by the time that surgeons and normal human beings consider this The Greatest Thing Ever TM?

I think its just surgeons and doctors showing off what they CAN do and not what will HAPPEN. At least i hope so. They can grow ears on the backs of mice but i dont want the fucking thing on my head, its a pretty awful idea really, worse than human cloning in my opinion.

 

[S-Gray]

Originally posted by Tilda
On a side note, wasnt there an old film where some spy had his face removed some captured spy's face transplanted onto his for a mission and then given his old face back?

Tilda

Originally posted by ~Mobius~
Has anyone seen the movie "Face Off" ?