You wonder why people dont help each other in London?

[Sparx]

which is a different scenario altogether.

im talking about taking on a duty of care on an individual and then fucking thar duty up. im not talking about helping someone, not fucking it up and going to prison for it.

i thought we were talking about administering first aid to a stranger not taking on the care of another

 

[Lamp]

Where you been living the past 20 years ? In a farm in the middle of the US Midwest ?

Welcome to city life

Could be in any city. In any country.

 

[Blackjack]

aye people dont like to get involved i remember years ago when my x bastard... i mean bf beat me up i was running thrugh the street in my jammies crying and limping and no one asked if i was ok, i never felt so lonely.

I'm going to be in the UK around June. Want me to kill him?

The world is filled with bastards and people scared out of their minds. I made it a principle to help people in trouble, since i lose all rights to call people bastards if i'm the same. And your act of kindness can make a HUGE difference in someones life.

 

[Mikah75]

when i was 5 my family were coming back from trip to scotland, my mum, my brother and my 2 sisters, my eldest sister was 11 and we had just met my dad to drive us home at the bottom of the Victoria underground coming up to the station and a man grabbed my sister slung her over his shoulder and legged it, only my dad and 1 man were chasing him no one else cared. strange how so many people just ignore everything around them

 

[Sparx]

Where you been living the past 20 years ? In a farm in the middle of the US Midwest ?

Welcome to city life

Could be in any city. In any country.

lived on a farm for only 16 years not 20

 

[tris-]

strange how so many people just ignore everything around them

how do you know they didnt just choose not to help?

we shouldnt be forced to help anyone (strangers) with anything, regardless of how sad that seems.

 

[Bugz]

how do you know they didnt just choose not to help?

we shouldnt be forced to help anyone (strangers) with anything, regardless of how sad that seems.

Because if you don't, you're a fucktard? :d

 

[tris-]

why exactly should i HAVE to help you?

youve fallen over and broken your leg. whats that do with me exactly? nothing at all.

 

[Chronictank]

as sad as it is that it is the situation, tris has a very valid point
why should he risk his neck? it may be the nice thing to do but at the end of the day poeple are fuckers and if it goes pear shaped he will be the one they blame

 

[Bugz]

You're talking in the very extreme of cases.

Ofcourse - that will be the case then.

The extreme case of me going out into my back garden is tht a meteor may clump me on the head.

Yet I still do it?

 

[tris-]

i personally am talking any case at all.

why should i have to help you in anyway? surely its my choice to decide that?

if you want to live without rights head off to france, they have laws there saying people have to help others in certain situations. not to help means they goto prison.

would you rather we had that? im injured and mrs smith with crutches is walking down the road. she chooses not to help therfore she goes to prison.

 

[Bugz]

You're being extreme once again.

I have never heard of a person being arrested for helping someone else out but failing miserably and my father has been in the police and prison officer profession for over 20 years now.

If that doesn't say something - what will?

 

[tris-]

You're being extreme once again.

I have never heard of a person being arrested for helping someone else out but failing miserably and my father has been in the police and prison officer profession for over 20 years now.

If that doesn't say something - what will?

believe it or not, your father isnt the ultimate authority on law, what ever he BELIEVES on this issue means nothing like what any of us believe. the only thing that means anything is the law.

"the actus reas of some offences can ONLY be commited by a positive act; but where the actus reas CAN be comitted by omission, a defendant who fails to act is only liable if under a DUTY TO ACT"
i assume you understand that, as your father is a bobby an all, he probably knows everything about the law and told you it all to.

one of the duties described above is a DUTY ARISING FROM THE VOLUNTARY ASSUMPTION OF A DUTY OF CARE. and what case law exactly proves that such a duty exists?
your dad probably knows about R v Instan (1893) and R v Stone and Dobinson (1977) i assume?

no, i doubt it. but just because he isnt aware fully of the law it doesnt mean that the particular law doesnt exist.

so in conclusion to "if that doesnt say something - what will?"; what will say something is the law its self, not your dads oppinion.

the fact is, if you take on caring for a random stranger and you dont do it 100% and they die or something terrible happens (taking into account the duty of care hasnt been passed onto someone else yet), then you can be prosecuted.
but thankfully because of this law, we arnt obliged to help anyone with anything.
as a sidenote, the defendants in the above cases were charged with manslaughter and jailed.

 

[Bugz]

I'm trying to say these are not common occurrences. The likelihood of you being done for a crime whilst trying to help someone are minimal.

Unfortunately, there's the small possibility you will be done for trying to do good - unfortunately that is just fortune turning you downwards instead of up.

You also need to take into account how the media and so on can influence such decisions. The two examples you gave were times when public audience and the media did not have as great an influence as they do now.

Yes, the law is a bitch - I don't need to be told that to know it - I've experienced it myself.

Personally, I can think of a tiny handful of situations where you yourself might cause more damage by trying to help - but this is more a case of helping in the wrong way. It is common knowledge never to move a person who is suspected of a damaged back and in a world where mobile phones are the norm - the emergency services (albeit - a bit slow) are a seconds' length away.

I'm off to bed anyway! Go go 7am start!

 

[leviathane]

your dad probably knows about R v Instan (1893) and R v Stone and Dobinson (1977) i assume?

Yet again you take two more cases which show that the defendants are living with the person. So ofcourse there will be a duty of care owed to the injured person. I don't really believe it's the same degree of "crime" as you're calling it, to live with someone and failing to care properly as to finding someone on the street and trying to help. And tbh to prove that there has been a failure of duty of care, you have to prove negligence. I'm pretty sure that it'd be hard to prove on someone who was walking by and helped someone, but in the end the injuries were too serious so they died.
Unless ofcourse that said person was to be negligent towards the injured party then can't see the argument here.

 

[tierk]

.............one of the duties described above is a DUTY ARISING FROM THE VOLUNTARY ASSUMPTION OF A DUTY OF CARE. and what case law exactly proves that such a duty exists?
your dad probably knows about R v Instan (1893) and R v Stone and Dobinson (1977) i assume?..............

Those two cases have no bearing whatsoever on good samaritans. They are both cases of people failing to help people that they live with and have a duty to help and care for. example one.......

R v Instan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and example two........

The K-Zone: R v Stone and Dobinson (1977)

Both are clear cut cases of negligence and in the end manslaughter and have nothing to do with helping someone you find in the street suffering from a stab wound or whatever ailment.

.............no, i doubt it. but just because he isnt aware fully of the law it doesnt mean that the particular law doesnt exist.............

There are plenty of laws that exist even todday that have no bearing on modern society. For example.......

The world's strangest laws - Times Online

Number 6 and 13 make the point quite well.

.............the fact is, if you take on caring for a random stranger and you dont do it 100% and they die or something terrible happens (taking into account the duty of care hasnt been passed onto someone else yet), then you can be prosecuted..........

Please show me one case of a good samaritan being prosecuted in the Uk. As i stated before the two cases that you have quoted wasnt a case of someone helping some random stranger.

........but thankfully because of this law, we arnt obliged to help anyone with anything...........

Pathetic cop-out and i pray the day comes when you need someones help as some cnut is kicking seven bells out of you and they just walk past and let you get it, then maybe you will understand.

........as a sidenote, the defendants in the above cases were charged with manslaughter and jailed.

Rightly so.

 

[Sparx]

Yup like i said before tris helping administer first aid to a stranger dying on the street and helping someone who live in you house under your care are completely different situations, you cant compare them at all

 

[Sparx]

You wont be prosecuted for helping someone on the street and they die. Every single case here and in the US has been thrown out of court when the person who was rescusitated or their family had tried to sue the first aider.

 

[Rubric]

You wont be prosecuted for helping someone on the street and they die. Every single case here and in the US has been thrown out of court when the person who was rescusitated or their family had tried to sue the first aider.

If you do something to make the situation worse in this day and age, whether or not you are trying to help, i can imagine you may be liable to civil if not criminal prosecution.

 

[DocWolfe]

Reading this thread makes me fucking angry. These are the many reasons I despise the south and especially despise London.

Most people would rather shit on you than say sorry or excuse me, and they most definately wouldn't help you in a situation, infact they would probably join in.

The nicest people I have met in London have tended to be foreigners... mostly eastern europeans.

 

[tierk]

Reading this thread makes me fucking angry. These are the many reasons I despise the south and especially despise London.

Most people would rather shit on you than say sorry or excuse me, and they most definately wouldn't help you in a situation, infact they would probably join in.

The nicest people I have met in London have tended to be foreigners... mostly eastern europeans.

Saw a cyclist run off the road by a taxi in London and the poor guy crashed into a lampost. People were just stepping over the poor guy was so sad really. Naturally i stopped and got a bottle of water for him and washed his gashed face, then some twat came up and said i should be careful i might catch AIDS. What a fucking idiot.

 

[Himse]

Saw a cyclist run off the road by a taxi in London and the poor guy crashed into a lampost. People were just stepping over the poor guy was so sad really. Naturally i stopped and got a bottle of water for him and washed his gashed face, then some twat came up and said i should be careful i might catch AIDS. What a fucking idiot.

hahaha, seriously.

i swear, 50% of this country are fucking retarded in so many ways.

 

[Rubric]

some twat came up and said i should be careful i might catch AIDS. What a fucking idiot.

Yeah everyone know's you get that from using a toilet seat.

 

[tierk]

OMgaad just read your Sig Himse and LOL. Oh and nice edit Erek!!

 

[Himse]

OMgaad just read your Sig Himse and LOL.

#lazermeights is funny

 

[Iceforge]

This didn't happen in London, or even the UK, but couldn't help but think about it.

One time a few years ago, me and a friend was on our way home from school. He had recently got a car and was driving and we was going to his place to set up our comps for some afterschool LAN fun (yes, we were geeks!) and we drive down this road past some quite street, it was quite then too, except there was this girl in the side of the road and we past her and then just looked at each other. It did not look like she moved at all, she just seemed to be standing there at the side of the road (not on the sidewalk, but on the road) and looking in the direction we was driving, without reacting to us driving by or anything. My friend brakes, reverse and back up to her.

Turned out she wasn't at all hurt or anything wrong with her. Me and my friend just both failed to notice the wheels under her shoes and she relaxed and let the hill do all the work. She was cool about us asking if something was wrong through, but damn it was a bit embarrasing and makes one think twice before doing something simuliar.

 

[Sparx]

how worse would you have felt tho if something had happened to her and you could've stopped it?

i'd rather be embarrased than guilt ridden

 

[tris-]

There are plenty of laws that exist even todday that have no bearing on modern society. For example.......

The world's strangest laws - Times Online


Pathetic cop-out and i pray the day comes when you need someones help as some cnut is kicking seven bells out of you and they just walk past and let you get it, then maybe you will understand.

case law is always relevant and applicable unless another case takes precedent over it.

and how is it pathetic? i dont believe you should be forced to help strangers, why the fuck should i be?
i think its outrageous everyone should be forced to help everyone else. i think that is more immoral than simply walking on by.
and to whoever is saying those cases are irrelevant, i guess you havent read them completely and understand how its relevant.

 

[tierk]

case law is always relevant and applicable unless another case takes precedent over it......

Yes you are right but those cases that you are describing are in no way relevant to the situation that everyone is talking about on this thread.

.....and how is it pathetic? i dont believe you should be forced to help strangers, why the fuck should i be?
i think its outrageous everyone should be forced to help everyone else. i think that is more immoral than simply walking on by.......

I guess its just a case of i'm alright jack so all good?

.....and to whoever is saying those cases are irrelevant, i guess you havent read them completely and understand how its relevant.

If they were relevant we would have seen a lot of people locked up in jail for helping people and not do ing it very well.

 

[Sparx]

Y
I guess its just a case of i'm alright jack so all good?

Until the time he has been mugged and stabbed and everyone is just walking by when he really needs help