You have a name...

[Ryuno]

I just want to post in a legendary thread before it gets locked.








ok i'm done

 

[Calaen]

P.S. All those personal attacks on Joor are so childish. We all know the conspiracy tendencies, but imho this is a really serious issue and seriously, who of us can say that they have no flaws ^^

It is not about someone not having flaws, however I am kinda perfect It is hard to take Joor seriously as I only seen one sensible post from him ever. I do believe he is over reacting though with regards to this topic.

 

[Sharma]

Sorry, I actually want an ID card.

Provided it caters for banking, IDing, etc and uses Biometrics, I couldn't give a toss.

ID cards can only be a good thing really, also provided the system isn't prone to morons running it, it'd do us a hell of a lot of good as far as Terrorism is concerned.

As far as I see it, the government has a bloody good right to suspect everyone regardless of it you think it's an invasion of privacy or whatever bollocks you think it's intruding on.

I'd rather be safe in the knowledge that the security is there to not be liable to be a potential victim of this scum roaming our streets looking to mug the next innocent person for their smack fix.

 

[Sparx]

ID cards can only be a good thing really, also provided the system isn't prone to morons running it

Like the CSA you mean? monumental fuck up that was

 

[Azurus]

t'd do us a hell of a lot of good as far as Terrorism is concerned.

No. Don't let the government use the 'terrorist threat' to further erode civil liberties. (hello Guantanamo Bay, Patriot act, 90 day detention etc etc)

Terrorism #
ID does not establish intention. Competent criminals and terrorists will be able to subvert the identity system. Random outrages by individuals can't be stopped. Ministers agree that ID cards will not prevent atrocities. A blank assertion that the department would find it helpful is not an argument that would be entertained for fundamental change in any other sphere of government but national security. Where is the evidence? Research suggests there is no link between the use of identity cards and the prevalence of terrorism, and in no instance has the presence of an identity card system been shown a significant deterrent to terrorist activity. Experts attest that ID unjustifiably presumed secure actually diminishes security.

 

[Serbitar]

i like fried onions and chocolate ice cream. though not together

 

[soze]

ID dose not establish intent but it would make finding people a lot easier. If there is a ID Card and you can only go and get new bank cards ect by registering Biometrics a simple check would let people know you are already there. And if cash machine and everything else can be monitored. Then as soon as some one on the run has no cash you can track them down. Add to that making people pay with ID Cards and you can really hurt People who try to run away from the police.

 

[Huntingtons]

as such, the id cards arent really the big problem. its a waste of money that direly could be used better.
think of it as a step on the long lane to East Germany. it took quite some years before it turned into that crazy shit it was till 90. for example Bush has gotten a law through that in case of a terrorist attack he can become dictator of USA for a certain amount of time. as a dictator he can then just remove all civil rights and democracy and stay in power...
by letting this get acceptable the border will be moved and next suggestion for big brother state will be accepted as well moving that border again, and so forth

or something like that, cant explain it very well at the moment

 

[Azurus]

as such, the id cards arent really the big problem. its a waste of money that direly could be used better.
think of it as a step on the long lane to East Germany. it took quite some years before it turned into that crazy shit it was till 90. for example Bush has gotten a law through that in case of a terrorist attack he can become dictator of USA for a certain amount of time. as a dictator he can then just remove all civil rights and democracy and stay in power...
by letting this get acceptable the border will be moved and next suggestion for big brother state will be accepted as well moving that border again, and so forth

or something like that, cant explain it very well at the moment

Basically it is step on us sleepwalking into a totalitarian state?

 

[Huntingtons]

Basically it is step on us sleepwalking into a totalitarian state?

more or less

 

[Amanita]

Wow, people still think that the government is out to "erode civil liberties", thats kinda fun.

The ID cards are likely to be a complete waste of money, but I ain't got anything to hide, and I bet "The State" has better things to do than check out what boring lil' me is up to.

 

[liloe]

Wow, people still think that the government is out to "erode civil liberties", thats kinda fun.

The ID cards are likely to be a complete waste of money, but I ain't got anything to hide, and I bet "The State" has better things to do than check out what boring lil' me is up to.

No, the state likes to know stuff about you, but I don't agree with that at all. Why do you think there are so many statistics and surveys nowadays....cause nobody is interested in what you think or do? I don't quite agree with you =)

No. Don't let the government use the 'terrorist threat' to further erode civil liberties. (hello Guantanamo Bay, Patriot act, 90 day detention etc etc)

Terrorism #
ID does not establish intention. Competent criminals and terrorists will be able to subvert the identity system. Random outrages by individuals can't be stopped. Ministers agree that ID cards will not prevent atrocities. A blank assertion that the department would find it helpful is not an argument that would be entertained for fundamental change in any other sphere of government but national security. Where is the evidence? Research suggests there is no link between the use of identity cards and the prevalence of terrorism, and in no instance has the presence of an identity card system been shown a significant deterrent to terrorist activity. Experts attest that ID unjustifiably presumed secure actually diminishes security.

repped.

 

[Amanita]

No, the state likes to know stuff about you, but I don't agree with that at all. Why do you think there are so many statistics and surveys nowadays....cause nobody is interested in what you think or do? I don't quite agree with you =)

Everyone loves statistics, even those people who are on to the government's crawl towards a Ming the Merciless style overlord.

Hell, I think I want to live in Emporer Ming's country. He'd swot down all the conspiracy theorists though!

 

[liloe]

Everyone loves statistics, even those people who are on to the government's crawl towards a Ming the Merciless style overlord.

Hell, I think I want to live in Emporer Ming's country. He'd swot down all the conspiracy theorists though!

Ah well, I guess we'll never share an opinion on this. After all you're free to join either side, but I really think that all those who embrace such things should think twice about which ways they're opening to the government. I think it's great time to throw away the rose-tinted glasses and see how it really is.

 

[soze]

Rose tinted glases? The current plan for the ID card dose not hurt Civil Liberties at all. It is not even mandatory to carry it in the current plans. But what exactly do you think the goverment will be able to find out when you have an ID card that they can't now? Or is your big problem the goverment will be incharge of looking after your spending habits rather than Lloyds TSB?

I think the people who object really do believe that as soon as this comes in there will be army road blocks and you will need a ID card to get past them. And rations on food. Ohh yeah and corrupt police officers will pick cards at random say you are a terorist and ship you odd to the new detention facility at gretna bay.

The people who dont like say the people who do need to get a grip on reality and see whats really going on. When its really clear they need to as well.

 

[Lamp]

I don't know what all the fuss is about ID cards

If you have nothing to hide - ie - you're a law abiding citizen - you've got nothing to worry about.

Surely in this day and age...where everyone is recorded 300 times a day on CCTV, where your drivers licence, passport, social security details, library card, travel card, utility bills, phone records, financial & bank statements, internet usage, electoral details, and your weekly supermarket spending habits are recorded and easily available to the authorities...is it really going to make any difference ?

I would suggest not.

 

[Imgormiel]

I hate David Cameron but in this I agree with what he said,'I do not like the idea of my life being simply reduced to just a simple magnetic strip on a piece of plastic and I think it is absurd that someone should be thinking in this way about not just a small number of people, but a whole nation.'

Enough said.

 

[Lamp]

I hate David Cameron but in this I agree with what he said,'I do not like the idea of my life being simply reduced to just a simple magnetic strip on a piece of plastic and I think it is absurd that someone should be thinking in this way about not just a small number of people, but a whole nation.'

Enough said.

I think thats rather naive. Your life isn't "reduced to just a simple magnetic strip on a piece of plastic". Just your identity is. Its no more than the sum of the information already contained on existing media (such as drivers licence, bank card, etc).

 

[Sharma]

Sort of what I was trying to put across myself Lamp, just didn't express it particulary well.

I echo your sentiments, what are people so god damn afraid of if they have nothing to hide? How exactly is it invading your privacy to have an all round ID Card? It's not like theyre planting cameras in your fucking home.

 

[Sparx]

to some people their identity is their life

 

[Gamah]

to some people their identity is their life

Career Criminals

 

[Sharma]

to some people their identity is their life

Going to be a bit hard to successfully steal someones identity if it's Biometrically bound, DNA, Finger prints etc, to my knowledge it's incredibly hard to mimic them unless you happen to cut someones finger off or something resevoir dogs stylé!

 

[Chronictank]

Bringing up old post

Can people not see that stuff like the smoking ban, fox-hunting ban, congestion charge etc are actually just common sense put into practice?

I am sorry but that made me laugh irl, 2 of the worst possible examples possible and you used them as a justification,
Smoking Ban, You are no longer allowed to smoke in a smoking lounge, that is not common sense its the complete oposite, if you bring the argument about it being bad for you, so what? there are literally hundereds of things bad for you that you do everyday

Congestion charge, they are planning to extend the congestion charge zone which will not only INCREASE congestion on the main roads around the zone and INCREASE traffic and delays because people who usually went round the outskirts to get from one side of london to the other now will have to use the already congested main roads.

 

[Huntingtons]

I think the people who object really do believe that as soon as this comes in there will be army road blocks and you will need a ID card to get past them. And rations on food. Ohh yeah and corrupt police officers will pick cards at random say you are a terorist and ship you odd to the new detention facility at gretna bay.

you are misunderstanding it. the ID card is a control object (i dont mind id cards but i do mind this next part). it can be the beginning to what i tried to explain earlier but with the increasing threat of "terror" control of the people is what makes the government wet and soaky
and it being biometrically bound. if you are at the wrong time at the wrong place you could and probably will at some point be framed for something...

 

[Chronictank]

As for the whole ID debate, its pretty fucking stupid in practice to let it happen because the people who organise these things are incompetant, as are the endless numbers of middle management who no doubt will be running things.
Want proof?
The millenium dome
The passport service
The immigration service
The NHS
The Education Service
The olympics
etc
etc
etc

They couldnt even manage to put together a central ambulance service computer system in London and you expect them to do this well?
it will be billions over budget, and it will be a complete and utter farse just like every other project, THAT is what worries me most.
In a country where our personal details are shipped to the US whenever they want i dont want a id card, homeland security is one thing but it is the first step on a slippery slope where your ID will be farmed out all over the place where it can and eventually will be abused

 

[soze]

you are misunderstanding it. the ID card is a control object (i dont mind id cards but i do mind this next part). it can be the beginning to what i tried to explain earlier but with the increasing threat of "terror" control of the people is what makes the government wet and soaky
and it being biometrically bound. if you are at the wrong time at the wrong place you could and probably will at some point be framed for something...

I do understand what you are saying the difference between what we think is i see an ID card as an ID card. You see it as the first step to a police state.

And a biometric card will not suddenly make all police so corupt that you will get framed week in week out, if they wanted too they could already do that.

 

[Huntingtons]

difference is that they will have every dna strip and fingerprint which will make it alot easier to accused wrongfully. besides it wont only be the police who will have the access. the ones creating the system will have access as well and that is something i find scary

 

[Lamp]

Thats paranoia

 

[Marc]

wow, its like the millenium all over again.

 

[gohan]

as long as its wallet sized an i dont have to take my passport out to prove im 21 thens its fine.... if it comes in briefcase format ill have some issues with it