You have a name...

[Naetha]

My mum knows where I am, and could kill me. In fact, lots of people know where I am and could kill me if they wanted.

Thing is, nobody cares about me enough to want me dead - just like 99% of the population

 

[CorNokZ]

I'm all for ID cards but no way for video survilliance.

You do know that UK is the country with the most surveilliance cameras on the streets compared to the population, right?

Ever felt bad because someone "might" be watching you or do you rather feel safe? I know that I would feel safer walking the streets(not that I don't atm) if they were monitored.. It's not like they have a policeman watching each street 24/7! If something criminal happened and it was reported THEN they will look through the tapes! And what does that bother you? That someone might see you near a crimescene? But if you haven't done anything, then what's the problem with answering a few questions if you saw anything etc.? If you did something wrong and got caught on camera, then it just serves you right

 

[Lollie]

The scene your all describing is a view of what it may be like.

Those most in power are most likely to become power-hungry.

If they can use survillance to catch terrorists - what's next? Criminals? Fine. Going onto private property? Hmm. Shagging your best friend's wife?

Things evolve more quickly than you expect - and whos to tell if this ends up the same.

thats the 2nd time you've brought up cheating on the other half, got something to get off your chest?
Cheating people deserve to get caught, and why would you be on someone elses property if you weren't up to no good?

 

[Bugz]

@Cornokz - sorry for not making it clear - i meant more in the lines of 'personal' surveilliance.

@Lollie - lol

& why do cheating people deserve to be caught? It's their decision - not the government's. As for the property part -> ever played frisbee/football/rugby at a park?

 

[Dukat]

My mum knows where I am, and could kill me. In fact, lots of people know where I am and could kill me if they wanted.

Thing is, nobody cares about me enough to want me dead - just like 99% of the population

Location: Leeds

WATCH OUT NATH! THEY AER COMING FOR YOOOOOOOO

 

[Naetha]

WATCH OUT NATH! THEY AER COMING FOR YOOOOOOOO

Noo they're on to me! Only I completely foxed the government, cos I don't live in Leeds any more!!!

Mwahahahahahahh!!!

 

[Dukat]

Noo they're on to me! Only I completely foxed the government, cos I don't live in Leeds any more!!!

Mwahahahahahahh!!!

rofl, I can see it now - snipers on various rooftops in leeds scratching thier heads wondering how nath is managing to stay hidden.

 

[Thorwyn]

I think the entire point of this discussion pivots aorund the question whether (and why) you can be sure that the government doesn´t abuse its powers. I know it´s comfy to just say "well, we´re a democracy, we´re the good guys, so what?", but when you´re taking a look back into history, you´ll find more than enough examples of power abuse by controlling a nations population. East Germany (until 1990), the 3rd Reich, most of the eastern countries during the cold war etc.etc. I`m not drawing analogies between those countries and the current situations. I just want to point out that the intentions and goals of a country is not always as obvious and clear as it seems.
Unless you´re willing to blindly believe and accept whatever the government says, a certain degree of scepticism is definitely not wrong.

Another point you should think about is the fact that "the government" is not an abstract thing. There are real people behind it. And if the government is allowed to keep track of people, the data will end up in the hands of real people. The government certainly will not kill you in a dark alley at night for reading Marx. But the pepole (and it takes quite a lot of people because it´s a lot of data) who have access to all the informations might gain an advantage (and use it) from their positions.

And a more ironical sidenote: I´ve seen lots of complains about the so called "Nanny state" here on FH. Now they´re really taking a step into this direction and nobody complains?

 

[Mabs]

rofl, I can see it now - snipers on various rooftops in leeds scratching thier heads wondering how nath is managing to stay hidden.

nah unlikely

its a waste of manpower while Joor is still alive and free

 

[Joor]

Its funny how the Government has suggested that the Identity Cards Act 2006 will tackle a number of problems, such as terrorism, identity theft, illegal immigration, and benefit fraud. It has never explained how.
The identity register and ID cards are mostly irrelevant to these problems, but they will restrict freedom, privacy, and civil rights for everyone...
Don't allow fear to influence your common sence. Fear is not only a weapon, it is perhaps the most powerful weapon that can be used in politics. And Bush f.eks is brandishing this weapon like no other, using it without concern of the consequences.

 

[Naetha]

Joor - please explain how ID cards will restrict freedom, privacy and civil rights for everyone?

 

[Mabs]

Its funny how the Government has suggested that the Identity Cards Act 2006 will tackle a number of problems, such as terrorism, identity theft, illegal immigration, and benefit fraud. It has never explained how.
The identity register and ID cards are mostly irrelevant to these problems, but they will restrict freedom, privacy, and civil rights for everyone...
Don't allow fear to influence your common sence. Fear is not only a weapon, it is perhaps the most powerful weapon that can be used in politics. And Bush f.eks is brandishing this weapon like no other, using it without concern of the consequences.

OMG how will finding out someone doesnt have a kosher ID card combat immigration? no idea....

benefit fraud ? who needs a paper trail when you got full traced records....

terrorism.. well, when you get clocked using a real, or faked ID, it will still show up where u are/were, and whose houses you went into.. of limited use i know

ID theft. they have your picture on file. you walk down a road and get photod, next day, you walk down the same road, and a different person is photod.. hmm, no, that wouldnt help at all

they WONT restrict freedom, apart from the freedom to break the law and try to hide it
it WONT restrict your privacy. there isnt a spook in london keeping tabs on you, you know. they WILL look at backdated info if it turns out your a jihadi tho

and im probably going to regret this but...
Joor, go talk to the families of people who died in the london bombings, ask THEM what THEY think.

 

[Thorwyn]

Because things aren´t "private" anymore as soon as other people have access to them?

 

[Joor]

Suggesting that fear is being used as a tool--I know meny of you completely rejected the possibility, as if it were ludicrous to even suggest that it could be done. But it is a classic political weapon, used down the ages. Make the people afraid, and then tell them you are the one who can save them. Think about how 9/11 has affected you. Excample; If you are on an airplane and you see a group of Arab-looking men, would you be at least nervous? After getting off the plane hours later, would you not be even a little more willing to support racial profiling in screening passengers for security threats?
If the answer is "yes," then congratulations: you have just had your political views adjusted by fear.

 

[old.Tohtori]

1:Think about how 9/11 has affected you. Excample; 2:If you are on an airplane and you see a group of Arab-looking men, would you be at least nervous? 3:After getting off the plane hours later, would you not be even a little more willing to support racial profiling in screening passengers for security threats?

1: It didn't.
2: I wouldn't, not even a bit.
3: Nope, i'm all for a-hole profiling, but not racial.

 

[Bugz]

and im probably going to regret this but...
Joor, go talk to the families of people who died in the london bombings, ask THEM what THEY think.

Ignorance alert.

 

[Naetha]

Joor - how about answering the question instead of changing the subject?

Anyone with half a brain cell can see how and why fear and perception of fear is used by a variety of different people (yourself included) to adjust their opinions. This is nothing new.

 

[Mabs]

Ignorance alert.

lol, cos you can really comment on something you have never experienced.

/clap

 

[Bugz]

lol, cos you can really comment on something you have never experienced.

/clap

Ohh a dose of irony too. Aren't you a clever one.

Here's the thing - just because something bad happened to someone, doesn't mean they'll instantly be for ID Cards/surveillance.

Countless times have I read that someone has been murdered, & the family don't want revenge or a way to stop them but just peace and so on.

Again - your working on fear/vengance - the idea that by damaging people, you can get them to instantly oppose others. It doesn't work for everyone.

 

[Joor]

Joor - please explain how ID cards will restrict freedom, privacy and civil rights for everyone?

Already did.. if you read it all.

 

[Mabs]

Ohh a dose of irony too. Aren't you a clever one.

Here's the thing - just because something bad happened to someone, doesn't mean they'll instantly be for ID Cards/surveillance.

Countless times have I read that someone has been murdered, & the family don't want revenge or a way to stop them but just peace and so on.

Again - your working on fear/vengance - the idea that by damaging people, you can get them to instantly oppose others. It doesn't work for everyone.

i didnt say that they would oppose it, but the view is different from the firing line, than from your living room chair

its just rather... sad, that some people are using words like "fear" and "police state" insinuating that somehow this is the first step to the armageddon. get a grip on your perspective.

 

[Bugz]

i didnt say that they would oppose it, but the view is different from the firing line, than from your living room chair

its just rather... sad, that some people are using words like "fear" and "police state" insinuating that somehow this is the first step to the armageddon. get a grip on your perspective.

It's sad that you can't argue your perspective without insulting/trying to put down others. I have no use argueing with people like that - its just a waste of time :/

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's sad that you can't argue your perspective without insulting/trying to put down others. I have no use argueing with people like that - its just a waste of time :/

Off the point:

Also you might want to change your perspective from "arguing" to "discussing" and you'll notice you're much happier in the end

 

[Mabs]

It's sad that you can't argue your perspective without insulting/trying to put down others. I have no use argueing with people like that - its just a waste of time :/

lol, i would of thought even you could do better than that bugz
ok let me try this again ...

your point, imo, is wrong
your point of view is biased
your argument is flawed at a base level

your adamant your right, so im obviously not going to change your mind.
you go on panicing that the entire country is about to be brought down , and ill just sit here and thank god that we dont like in a country run by religious nutters, with secret police and the works.

 

[Naetha]

Already did.. if you read it all.

I have read it all, and the question still stands - here are some snippets from you - nowhere do you answer the question.

The card itself is not the real problem. The National Identity Register IS.
When we become a number on a government computer - Initially the file would contain very little (date of birth, current address…). But gradually (in the name of ‘preventing terrorism’ ‘stopping crime’ or ‘protecting children’) the file would contain or link to more and more personal information such as: your spending habits, your ethnicity, religion, sexual preferences, your political leanings, your health records, your criminal records..etc etc .

Where is your citation for this? Why would your ID file contain information such as your sexual preference? This is something in your head, not in reality.

So you are saying that if you are not a criminal then the government may use any surveillance and monitoring against you no matter how draconian and intrusive? All mail should be routinely opened, all telephone calls routinely recorded, cameras monitoring every movement you make?

Again, where is your citation for this? How do you get from a central database that has your NI number, passport information etc to that situation? Again, something in your head is filling in the missing steps that aren't occurring in reality.

So you dont care about privacy and freedom?
Maybe you wont object to a government spy camera in every room of your house, including your bedroom, linked back to a police monitoring station?

Again citation for there being spy cameras in every room of your house?

I'd just like some common sense answers, or if you do have reliable government issued or peer-reviewed citations, then feel free to quote them.

 

[Calaen]

Just keep typing Naeth.. I am closing in on your location!!!!!!!

Really Joor, Naetha has typed it all out nice above. You give no answers just alot of scare tactics, if you had valid proof for your visions of the future people might take notice.

 

[Naetha]

Feel free to come over Calaen - just got a new sofa and new TV (42 inch 1080 Samsung LCD TV /drool) coming on Monday

And incidentally, you can find out a hell of a lot more about people from googling them than will probably ever be on an ID card register.

 

[Azurus]

How about some of you stop being ignorant retards? Are you putting it past the government to have a hidden agenda or something? It's ALL about control.

 

[Bugz]

Nvm - not worth my time.

 

[Calaen]

How about some of you stop being ignorant retards? Are you putting it past the government to have a hidden agenda or something? It's ALL about control.

I am in control

I just Googled and discovered Naetha is a female omgz!!!