Yay Boris!!

[Binky the Bomb]

Look, the sad facts of life are that difficult decisions have to be made on behalf of the country and its people.

Kenny boy just lost the plot, and to be honest, so did Blair and Brown. Ten years running the country, and they have done NO BETTER that the Tories did last time in. Oh sure, the UK is a much different place now, but honestly it no better off.

I was a student when Labour came into power, and I kept an eye out on what they were doing (as you do when you know everything (Kids, pah!)). You know what the major things Labour changed here in Oldham? We have about 10,000 less homes with even more going. We have a death trap of a bus terminus (Where all the bus stops are in the middle of a roundabout, you you have to run out INTO the flow of traffic to catch a bus).

We have an LED clock, that was installed into the street in front of the town centre (that shorted out last christmas when a hired reindeer pissed on it, and it got through a seal to the electrics). Its been broken and smashed on numerous occasions, costing us 5 times its cost in repairs.

We have a fountain thats a marvel of modern art, by the fact it doesn't work. It apparently has been repaired by many plumbers (so you just KNOW the bastards are over-charging).

Thay have spent millions on architects and surveyors, planners and 'community specialists' to help remodel the Bourgh... and then scrap the plans once their drawn up because its too expensive. They knocked down the cinema's, and taxed the all the small entertainment businesses into oblivion (We had a laser Arena. Not huge, but it kept a few of us idiots off the streets).

There's more, but the point is, these are NOT the actions of a party 'for the worker and the people'. These are the actions of people who don't have a fucking clue, and they got WORSE as time progressed. The same applies to London. Sure, the thing Red Ken is famous for is the congestion charge, but I'll bet there's a ton of shit thats not been picked up on by the press thats just as damaging.

Trust me, unless Boris embezells millions of pounds, snorts cocaine of a rent-boy penis, or spends taxpayers money on useless and worthless projects (Like the Millenuim Dome or Eastenders) then he's doing better than most politicians. Give him a chance to fail at least, we gave Ken 8 years to fuck up London more, so Boris deserves at least 6 months.

 

[Bugz]

Stopped reading there.(not really)

If you want to discuss things, then do, but don't dare to ignore someones whole point/points.

I mean goverment, as it's the sum of politics.

So you are trying to argue that the aim of every country in the world - economic growth and prosperity - is not a major thing?

 

[Rookiescot]

Trust me, unless Boris embezells millions of pounds or spends taxpayers money on useless and worthless projects (Like the Millenuim Dome or Eastenders) then he's doing better than most politicians.

Conservatives started funding on the Millenium Dome. Labour just had to pay the bill.

 

[Aoami]

I have to iterate a bit here:

Democracy isn't working, as the only democratic choice we have is about who we believe to be the lesser evil, or rather, who do we think is lying the less.

Sure, peopel elect people ito the positions, but the amount of time for something to happen is ridicilous ad often demands some kind of sh*t to hit the fan before the politicians act.

What i think, honest to gods, is that we would be better off with some form of democratic dictatorship. People electing a person, who they believe would work for their benefit without the political channels.

Yeah and the world is actually a rainbow covered in unicorns!

Dictorships can't be democratic, theres no leeway there.

I think what you're trying to say is that Party Politics is about the Partys trying to get one up on each other in a desperate bid to get elected without caring what is actually best for the people... which is perfectly true.

However, that doesn't seem to be a massive problem outside of England, and I don't know why that is, but i'd levy the blame somewhat on the press who are a pack of rabid dogs here.

I like the political system in America and think that would be ideal here, but Labour & the Tories would never go for it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So you are trying to argue that the aim of every country in the world - economic growth and prosperity - is not a major thing?

Read it fully and maybe you'll get it.

No i'm not. I'm saying it's no major gain as it's a given, there hasn't been any major improvement in anything in years. An improvement in countries(or anothers) economy(which is debatable again) is not a major achievement.

Voting for women was major.
Abolishing slavery was major.

Dropping rhe price of gas by 0.01 bucks ain't.

Yeah and the world is actually a rainbow covered in unicorns!

Dictorships can't be democratic, theres no leeway there.

I think what you're trying to say is that Party Politics is about the Partys trying to get one up on each other in a desperate bid to get elected without caring what is actually best for the people... which is perfectly true.

However, that doesn't seem to be a massive problem outside of England, and I don't know why that is, but i'd levy the blame somewhat on the press who are a pack of rabid dogs here.

I like the political system in America and think that would be ideal here, but Labour & the Tories would never go for it.

I'm actually talking all politics, but yeah, the UK politics do seem to hold somewhat "old" ways. Not too sure, just from what seen/heard.

About the democratic dictatorship, yes, it would happen right after i farted pink elephants and rainbows out my arse, but it's still a valid point that at the moment its not working, and a delecated dictator ruling would work, perhaps, better. Atleast things would happen.

 

[Zede]

Remember this -

Labour, pawns as they are DID drop Cannabis to a Class C drug.

Like the scourge of computer games destroying our society, the tories will -guaranteed reclassify pot as an "election pledge" to a class B drug again.

 

[Hawkwind]

Toh has a point, which is why we need proportional representation

Yeah cos that works so well in Italy!

On topic, Labour have as usual promised lots, delivered very little. They pushed UK INC into debt from the surplus we had when the cons were running the country. As Deeb's stated they went after the middle classes with hidden taxes all the time promising to lower taxes.

The problem is that the middle classes are the easiest to get money from. Normal everyday workers who get paid through automated PAYE systems and are easy to take taxes from. The rich have lawyers and accountants who play the system to their advantage, finding ways to avoid paying. The system simply does not work.

For once I would love to see a government tell the truth about the economy. Yes, we need to raise taxes to improve schools and hospitals. When all you get from labour is the promise of lower taxes and the illusion that education/health are improving. All the figures are being massaged by Blair's Spin doctors in every department of the civil service. Something which almost instantly added millions to the wage costs of the civil service. Bloody joke.

Good on Boris for winning. At least he has a personality.

Roll on the next election so Labour can finally be kicked into touch for another 15-20 years!

 

[Bugz]

Read it fully and maybe you'll get it.

No i'm not. I'm saying it's no major gain as it's a given, there hasn't been any major improvement in anything in years. An improvement in countries(or anothers) economy(which is debatable again) is not a major achievement.

Voting for women was major.
Abolishing slavery was major.

Dropping rhe price of gas by 0.01 bucks ain't.

Maybe it's just me but where everything in this world revolves around money and the flow of money and the spending of money, i'd say economics and anything related to it is pretty damn major.

Besides, our economy is so stable now-a-days that it would be silly for us to make massive changes that we couldn't verify the outcome of. It'd disrupt all economy equilibriums.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Maybe it's just me but where everything in this world revolves around money and the flow of money and the spending of money, i'd say economics and anything related to it is pretty damn major.

Besides, our economy is so stable now-a-days that it would be silly for us to make massive changes that we couldn't verify the outcome of. It'd disrupt all economy equilibriums.

If you take a look at WTC, oil crisis(maybe coming), global warming, war against north korea...and the list goes on...and what "experts" say about it, our economy isn't stable at all.

Anywya, back on point so to speak:

You're thinking in a 100 year scale, while i'm saying it in a more drastic, "need to act now" way.

Politics hasn't done this for a long while. And as such, i claim it doesn't work. If you can't give any example of how politics have helped in the past 10 years, in any major and altering way,(i'll get to economics later), then you have to agree that atleast partly i'm right, and that's already a problem.

Ever heard of those "deathtrap crossroads" that desperately need that 30 buck stop sign, yet, it takes months and months for it to arrive 'cause of politics?

Or students and how f*cked their money situation is, or mone situation around the world, or poverty at your local country even(all have it) while politicians reap around 300k/year. And you see them as a improvement to economy?

If we took even half of all politician pay, gave that to the needy people(through social help orwhatever floats your boat), the politicians would STILL get around 4-5 times more money then an average joe and we could get rid of poverty in many places.

Or take a look at the US, spending billions in war that could, hell, give education to EVERY kid in the world and still leave us(pun) plenty to get healthcare to all. Bet there's war costs in the UK that are pointless. Haven't seen any Iraqi attack boats lately in the thames.

Economy might have risen on paper(and if you take a look, economy ain't that great at the moment either), but it hasn't changed in any major way to fix problems. Crimes increase, poverty increases, unemployment increases, while as an example, war funding goes up, politician pays go up(ab-f*cking-surd) and so forth.

You say everything revolves around money, and as such, economy has risen. I'd agree if the money would go to places where it would HELP the economy.

 

[Rookiescot]

Maybe it's just me but where everything in this world revolves around money and the flow of money and the spending of money, i'd say economics and anything related to it is pretty damn major.

Bugz .... a nurse or a doctor saves lives. Aint that more important than the persuit of money? Or how about a fireman who pulls someone from a burning building? Policemen who tackle a criminal? Or a guy in a chemicals factory who pulls his mate away from a pipe rupture? Or a soldier who puts his life on the line to help a comrade?

All of these things and many others are far more valuable to society than someone who sits at a PC in the City of London moving money.

 

[Sparx]

Bugz .... a nurse or a doctor saves lives. Aint that more important than the persuit of money? Or how about a fireman who pulls someone from a burning building? Policemen who tackle a criminal? Or a guy in a chemicals factory who pulls his mate away from a pipe rupture? Or a soldier who puts his life on the line to help a comrade?

All of these things and many others are far more valuable to society than someone who sits at a PC in the City of London moving money.

Ahh but that person who is sitting there moving money may be the person responsible for ensuring that the fireman, solder, nurse gets the funding for equipment and wages

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ahh but that person who is sitting there moving money may be the person responsible for ensuring that the fireman, solder, nurse gets the funding for equipment and wages

While at the same time taking a good chunk of it and putting it in their backpockets to buy themselves the nteenth mercedes benz and complaining how the goverment ONLY forgave them a 3 million loan and DIDN'T buy them a cheaper condo in the bahamas.

I start believing in politics when they get paid as much as one should for talking cr*p and telling lies while riding around in a convertible supercar and acting "pro-nature".

In other words, less then those saving our lives.

Or the guy who cleans our toilet at our workplace, atleast he sweeps some of the sh*t up every now and then.

 

[Bugz]

There are some misconceptions about a lot of things in terms of politics/economics.

Firstly, govt. spending = public services = saving of lifes. The money is the first step to these things (as Sparx said).

Without a governing body - public services would not be as developed as they are. Assuming Adam Smith's Invisible Hand is true in today's economy, everyone would work for themselves and all those acts of kindness (or atleast a lot of them) would go bye bye.

Furthermore, politicians do not earn that great an amount. The Prime Minister earns ~£150k. Experienced politicians get a base salary of £40-50k. Bit less than the £300k you seem to be thinking seel!

Ofcourse if Gordon was to quit PM and become a private sector manager of a top firm, he'd probably earn 10x what he earns now.

I'm not arguing whether politicians get paid too much - as its not my right to say - but the governing body has an impact on the economics of a country - and the economics of a country has an effect on every feasible thing in the country.

Without a governing body - things would be worse off publically and socially (economically is harder to say). Economic theory supports that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ecocomics are good, yes. Economics give people money, yes. Economics keep us having food or some such on our tables, yes. BUT it's hardly in need of 600 or so numbnuts waving their legistative money covered wangs about, in a huge all out cockfight that resembles a national gay holiday to aruba, just to get a stop sign at a crossroads or someone to go "oh gee, i think we should keep paying people moneyz.".

If we wanted real representation and people who cared about the country you or she lives in, we should set the salary at a "so so survive" level and then we would have people "in power" who actually give a flying f*ck.

Ofcourse my 300k/year maybe a bit off, but what the hey, let's twist numbers and hump a few dots to make a point. And if you think earning 40-50k of your UK dollars/month or /year even isn't f*cking ridicilously much, then you are probably one of the people who would aspire to "help the world" with a side order of "getting a slight compensation for it".

 

[Bugz]

Yes I agree - there probably are too many politicians for the work involved. I'd rather the money spent on them be used for more economists or financial advisor's or what-have-you for the government.