Xp Camping.

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Turamber
Maybe, just maybe, people react badly to YOU and your self righteous tirades ...

But it's not a major problem if you deal with them the right way. May I submit the honourable gentlemen may have contributed to his own problems

How so? If nobody knows who I am in Albion, and that I enjoy being unknown? That I am not self-righteous, how rich, coming from you of all people.

Deal with it the right why? Like, hmm, "Excuse me, don't you think you are being rude?", and then being shown the trully colourful speech of some people? Contribute to my own problems? How so? When I never XP where someone else is already there or the camp too small? That I look for places people don't go? That I more than willingly share the camp spot with others if the spawn is large enough?

No, of course not, I have some magical flag that says I have a nice camp spot that you must come take over.

And I said, that a lot of it is down to size of realm and the loss of DF. Greater numbers = more incidents.

-G

 

[Nattrún]

Wow. People -care- about these things on Prydwen? People -do- think it's rude when people come and wipe out a whole camp when you're soloing? Oh my goodness... that's it, I'm starting a character on Prydwen -now-.

Now just to decide which realm to choose...

 

[SilverHood]

happend to me in DF earlier... was happily bashing away at umbroods with my lowbie shaman in tow, and a warrior and his bot comes along and sets up camp righ next to me??
Spawn rate was slow enough with me there, having to compete wasn't really an option.... they didn' even ask.

Usually I hate it when realm members die, but when they got aggro from a Knight, I had to smile to myself.
Guess my spot was free again

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
No, of course not, I have some magical flag that says I have a nice camp spot that you must come take over.

Christ, you should get rid of that flag asap

As I said I can count the number of incidents on one hand ... more often than not it's just a misunderstanding, you speak to them in the right way and most people can come to a compromise or alternative solution.

Me? Self-righteous? Nah, just like an argument

 

[mcitchy]

Sorry to say but I disagree with the whole, "Its my camp... get your own" issue. Using weeping willows as an an example, there was a PBAOE sm and healer pair taking the spawns north of Gna Faste the other day both red con to my lev 11 thane, chainpulling the spawn which was orange to me. I hadnt seen them till after I'd killed my first mob and then they send a PM saying how I cant be there as they are wiping out the 2 spawns too quickly any way, quite how 2 mobs every 5 mintes is going going to affect there xp'ing is beyond me. When leveling my sm in the same fashion i'd invite the solo'er to the group knowing i was going to annihilate the camp, and let them get in some easy xp in the process.

IMO its nothing more than greed and lazyness that promotes camping a spawn, and theres better xp to be had if you move around a bit more. I guess the main reason this particular case annoyed me is that it was 4 a.m at the time. (combination of having no life and working shifts)

If you want to camp do so, but its not worth getting attached to something that you haven't pulled yet, to the extent of getting annoyed at someone having the same plan for the day as you, regardless of your intention to pull every mob in the camp.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

mcitchy, you are correct in that you can hunt whatever you want wherever you want. You pay your subs like everyone else.

However, the general way that people play means that the community for the most part agrees that the first team to a hunt spot, gets it. People that won't show consideration in this way generally find they run out of people to group with fast.

The argument that you can get more valuable xp from a beastie than someone several levels higher isn't actually all that relevant in the situation, though before you go mental at me, I completely understand the frustration when you get to an area and someone is cleaning out a very large area with no regard for others.

The campsite/hunt spot thing is an ethic rather than a rule and it only works by consensus, which is why it gets heated at times, since many think ethic means what race you are and in some places there is definately an ethic minority.

Arggh crushingly bad pun.. must ... take it ... out ... fingers not ... responding...

 

[Fafnir]

Originally posted by mcitchy
Sorry to say but I disagree with the whole, "Its my camp... get your own" issue.

Think about the baf code too, it can be very devestating, if you accidentaly pull the same mob. Saw it happen at yar when i was there with fafnir, almost every drakulv came when the 2 groups of 2fg's pulled the same mob twice. And in the confusion about what mob to attack and who should mezz etc. But then again some xp are better than none, but at what cost.

I said to this person, that the camp was not big enough for both of our small groups. And all i get is a insulting answer. I would have no problem with them pulling if they had just asked if it was ok.

But as Roo wrote its you who pay for your playtime.

 

[swords]

I find it very annoying when im trying to solo the echo room in the Barrows one xcal recently.

The xp is slow enougb for a level 45 and the DT is huge but it's constant i suppose.
When some group comes in on their way to the wights decides to pull every mob they can on the way. including all the mobs i was xping on during a DT period.

nothing you can do realy apart from wait or move elsewhere...

 

[Stonebits]

Heh, I agree with most of the comments here, ie First come first served etc, Xp'ing takes Priority etc....

Must admit Ive had very few bad experiences with this, but you do get the odd idiot or two in any game....

All I can say is you should be thankful you are not playing Everquest...

I played that for two years, and in some places there were two spots of monsters that would have a spawn of say 5 mobs at one and 6 at another, for characters at around 15th level I think... Its been so long all I can remember was that they were Orcs, cant remember the zone....

The amount of arguments and shouting and camp stealing etc etc that went on was amazing.... its one of the reasons I stopped playing the game.....

DAOC is all sweetness and light by comparision

 

[mcitchy]

Ello again folks...

Amster is me ewul-dorf-zerker(tm) - and i know a few of you have had no problems about grouping with her

Fafnir - Weeping willows near gna are hardly comparable to drakulvs in malmo, and to my knowledge aren't affected by the baf code anyway . Whenever i've experienced an accidental "both pull same time moment" - tempters in DF for example, 9/10 you know its happened and can just pull a soultorn or familiar to negate it. The time it gets missed and the feaces hit the fan then you kill of the mobs and then pull a soultorn and kill the code. More importantly you educate those people you group with about the baf code, preferably before they get to malmo and experience it first time thinking wtf!???

Roo - The fact that I can earn more xp for a beastie wasn't the argument. I'm just dead set against the playground mentality of "ITS MY BALL AND YOU CANT PLAY WITH IT!!!" which this topic just screams out . I'd have happily taken 5 mins a kill and 5 mins downtime solo, It was more the attitude that my simply being there and taking 5% of spawn was too much of a loss for the "ethically correct kill 2 spawns in 30 secs campers(tm)" to bear. Personally I'm not one to say "hey thats my mob... my camp" but likewise I'm not one to move on when I'm expected to obey the unwritten ethics of what could be percieved as being the midgard elite. To some I'm going to appear to be "bloody rude" to others I may appear more generous with the spawn I OWN as is my ethical right than I should be - Of course I may just be High on End crack or being awkward.

IMO Spawn camping is a very selfish behavioural trait, and probably attributable to the human condition, but a general concensus is not law and I for one wont easily be bullied into the "general" way of thinking.

Reading this back to myself I come across as being Stubborn, Arrogant, Rude and Awkward - But I got me good points too ... can all be fixed by a Shammy throwing some End Crack at me and pointing me towards a Hibby or Alb

- Amster

Have you got a flag???

 

[Fafnir]

Originally posted by mcitchy
IMO Spawn camping is a very selfish behavioural trait, and probably attributable to the human condition, but a general concensus is not law and I for one wont easily be bullied into the "general" way of thinking.

Well then you wont be goin to malmo since thats all people do there, spawn camping. And with your way of thinking i can almost justifie and attack on the mobs you are fighting, since its selfish to get all the xp yourself. There are some unwritten rules that most people go by, mainly to endure the long xp ladder. And if all should stop spawn camping, and start run around hunting spawn, well your xp would slow down. You find a good spawn, you stay there pulling, if the spawn is big enought for more people its great, but if its not all there will get slow xp. I would rather move from a camp if someone is camping it and killing at a fast rate if the camp is too small for both of us.

 

[mcitchy]

With my way of thinking you can come hunt the same spawn as me. As is your right. You are not at liberty to start attacking the same mob I'm fighting as the CoC would come into play and I can formerly lodge a harressment complaint etc etc etc or at least get upset .

Should you choose to set up camp next to me you are most welcome to do so, if you find your not getting enough xp for your trouble then move on. I'd be more inclined to pool the groups however and get the 1/2 the xp for 1/2 the downtime, rather getting me knickers in a twist about having somebody else invade MySpawn(tm). ITS MINE! you cant lay claims to spawns, if you could then why not charge a toll for the cheeky buggers that trespass across your territory to get somewhere else???

There are only a finite number of camp spots at any given level, and there are always going to be instances where group X upsets group Y because they have the misconcieved idea that they own a given set of mobs, DF as an example in 20's 3 plated fiend spawns lots of lowbie groups and slighty higher levels farming seals for some armour... You in your groups will be getting hot headed competing with each outher whereas my way of thinking i'm quite happily ploding along taking the next available target. Its the concept of sharing something that spawn campers aren't grasping... whats next "OI! that was my RvR kill gimme back me rp you leeching git!!"

Yar and Lair at malmo are different to regular leveling and take some organising to avoid wipeout.

Well then you wont be goin to malmo...

Went for me first time on Sunday, made 2 level's and held the list from 6 am to 3 pm... only 7 people leaving in those 9 hours.

 

[Moth Twiceborn]

Pull stealing...

My favourite was *ages* ago - killing boulderlings when this wizard and his mate start attacking the mobs that we'd already pulled!

We warned them off (okay, not super polite with: "Get yer own boulderlings!") and they kept doing it. So I pull one, hit it, wizard nukes it. I step back. Boulderling goes off and eats wizard and friend. My group laugh heartily.

 

[Fafnir]

Originally posted by mcitchy
Went for me first time on Sunday, made 2 level's and held the list from 6 am to 3 pm... only 7 people leaving in those 9 hours.

So what do you think about spawn camping then? What would you say if another 2 fg's came and started pulling from same spot? And btw all group xp need to have some kid of organisation unless your are just pulling yellows/oranges, but as soon as you move onto red/purps that baf you need your healers, and not have each member of the group bashing happely away on 1 mob each and then yelling for heal.

 

[mcitchy]

So what do you think about spawn camping then?

Spawn camping is fine if thats what you want to do, my argument is against those who try to place ownership on a spawn and start sending PM's like "these are OUR mobs!".

What would you say if another 2 fg's came and started pulling from same spot?

Really depends on the situation, if it happened at Lair i'd not be fussed, think they call that american style. Elsewhere it depends on the size of the spawn, as soon as someone thinks "Oh my god this is overcamped" they'd move to a different location. What I'm saying is there is no point getting stressed over something you have no ownership of other than some unwritten ethical law of the land. Being the PR for the guild I'm in i've had so many tells from others, which are basically "your guildmate mr.x just hit my mob once, i want him crucified for this brutal act against my person and preferably ejected from your guild" most of the time these arument are over an individual mob and not camp spot, but how people can get so argumentative over such a small thing, amazes me .

And btw all group xp need to have some kid of organisation unless your are just pulling yellows/oranges, but as soon as you move onto red/purps that baf you need your healers, and not have each member of the group bashing happely away on 1 mob each and then yelling for heal.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Not all groups require CC, Amster in particular has been fed a staple diet of reds and purples as she's leveled. Healers dont necessarily have to heal all time, a stun here and heals when people are on 25% life rather than 90% life is far more mana efficient. Your average tank has plenty of hitpoints to take a few blows, more if they have a shield, just get them to whack the add and take the pain its what they are designed for. A Shadowblade can solo a red/purp mob long enough for the rest of the group to take out the first due to there high evade rate at later levels. Making sure Guard is used effectively is another thing that reduces downtime. Bladeturn runies casting a confuse and using all 8 bubbles rather than just one is also more efficient. Healers can cast a last minute group heal and walk up to a mob and instantly take aggro for at least another 4 - 5 rounds of combat should things go really pearshaped, and keep all the tanks alive for what amounts to at least another 15 - 20 swings in a full group - this is often better than them trying to run especially given the high level of aggro in most dungeons. Thing with most of these "tactics" I mention is that they go against the general publics thoughts as to what makes up a good xp groups dynamic... "2 healers, 1 Shammy, 3 tanks, 2 casters..."

I've run many groups around the lower levels in spind in the mid 30's with a shammy (for end crack and friggs) and various "tanks" (read SB's, Hunters, etc) where i'd be MA and Peeler to great success, just running around the tunnels smacking red and purple cave trows and djupts with a couple of big axes, first mob i hit the rest hit till its dead, while i would occupy the add until the others were finished - chaotic yes, but If anyone was going to die it would be me first and that didnt happen as often as you'd think, and it was a lot more exciting than sitting in one of the corridoors waiting for the spawn to pop, not to mention a great deal of fun . No doubt while doing this we ran though many peoples camps, and upset some of them, but if the mobs there and being left to its own devises then its fair game.

As I've said my main problem with the camping of mobs is not the camping itself, more the idea that groups that camp feel they have absolute ownership over any given spawn they currently have there tents set up at

On a side note: (I'm not that bad a person when you get to know me - honest... just addicted to end regen... puts hairs on your chest and turns you into a hamster if not kept in check )

p.s. sorry for the long post hope you made it this far

 

[Kurfew]

All it takes is a little common sense!

Be polite and ask if you may pull mobs, if somebody is already
at your chosen xp spot..
Nothing gets peoples backs up like dis-respect or dam right rudness..

Example last night my chosen xp spot was clerks behind the house by the standing stone, i arrived to see a RTM Nerco happily
hunting, i PM him to ask how long he would roughly be there, and when the spot opened if he could give me a tell.
as it happened he was about to leave so i got the spot.
shortly another Necro arrived and asked if he could pull some,
as there is a spawn of 6 by the stone and another 3 on hill close by i had no problem as there would be just enough for 2 necro's
to constant pull without having to wait for respawns..

Then a full group YTM arrived, and without and word began to pull
the clerks.i messaged them to say there is not enough mobs to warrant them being there.too which i got abuse.

Then wot i feared happened, there wasnt enough mobs, had to wait for respawns, mob stealing began on all parties, in the rush
to get to the mob first..was a complete waste of time...

So like i said up the top just be polite and ask before you go ahead and pull..theres usally a reason if you are asked not too.

Kurfew Heresy Lv38 Necromancer

 

[mcitchy]

Nothing gets peoples backs up like dis-respect or dam right rudness..

er... being told when and where you can play?

theres usally a reason if you are asked not too.

yep... and its usually "There MINE! all MINE!!! Muhahahaha(TM)", the whole argument is based on an arrangement between a percentage of the community agreeing on a "rule" that is not supported by the CoC.

There is no way you can enforce rules or ethics regarding who owns a spawn as they dont belong to anyone. In life some people are going to be polite others are rude, thats the thing you have to accept. The funny thing about the whole issue is that its the "polite" people who end up being rude by telling someone to move on because (guess what) "There MINE! you cannot be here... Muahahahaha(TM)!!!" which then spirals down into an argument due to the "rude" people (who have the CoC in there favour) not wanting to be told what they can/cant do by some random soloer, when they pay there subs like everyone else.

If your camping a spot and some rude bugger comes and pulls without asking, you have to tolerate it and should the xp become to crappy to bear find somewhere else to hunt. Not saying you have to like it, but the way the CoC is you haven't got a leg to stand on - Other than the agreement of 60% of the community which means you yourself are an aggrovation to the other 40% (stats made up - but last time i checked not everyone who plays the game reads the BW forums and 99% of all statistics are incorrect anyway )

Its all a question of which perspective you are looking from. Can you honestly say that someone sending you a tell to move will have you apologising and moving on without getting upset about it?

Everyone involved in the argment is feeling wronged by in some way... my way of dealing with the issue is to just get on with it and kill whatever you can get your hands on there is no need to be selfish about it

NOTE: "Muhahahaha(TM)" is a copyright of Roo Stercogburn (c)2003

NOTE TO SELF: Must stop taking liquid lunches

Anyone got some end crack??? GIVF!!!