WoW

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by old.Wildfire
Do you even know what the term pre-rendered means?

Pre-rendered would imply that a screenshot has been specifically set up and posed on a far more graphically powerful computer than your average user. It would imply that more advanced rendering techniques are shown in the screenshot than will be found in the final game, and that the screenshot has been post-production edited to improve the graphics.

None of which apply to any WoW screenshots that have been labelled as in-game or "gameplay".

Please have a clue before using buzz-words.

Oh and MMORPGs aren't much different from balancing strategy games when it comes down to it. The number of variables may be different but they're all built from the same basic principles. As long as you keep track of those principles (something mythic never did with DAoC [think CC types/distributions/counters between realms]) you're in the green.

I understand perfectly well what pre-rendered means: I work with graphics, and I've been involved in 3D design myself. I've also worked with games companies, and know exactly what they mean by "in game" shots for pre-production games. For example, it doesn't mean that it's using the same game engine that will be available in the final game; it doesn't reflect any real conditions that players will actually find themselves in; and it certainly doesn't mean that no retouching of the image has taken place. It's fairly common practice to use a 3D engine, set up a very limited shot, use an obscenely powerful computer, and still claim it's "in game". To all intents and purposed, it's pre-rendered: it bares little to no relationship to a real in-game experience.

In other words, it doesn't mean you'll actually see anything like that in the final game. What's more, I know from talking to people in the industry how often "in game" has actually been a outright lie: often enough that I take any claims of shots being "in game" with a pinch of salt. It is, in fact, a claim that's been abused so much by game companies that it's become meaningless.

You're right that the difference between MMORPG's and other games is the numer of variables, and that, of course, is the problem. Increase the number of variables, and the complexity of the game increases exponentially. And that's what makes it so difficult to balance an mmorpg.

I'm not saying that WoW won't be great: it might be. However, assuming that it will be great on the basis of a few images and what Blizzard has done with other (non-mmorpg) games is wishful thinking at best.

 

[old.Wildfire]

And therein you've managed to prove yourself wrong, as you will find that none of what you have mentioned above have been used by blizzard (other than posing a shot, but that's still in-game) for any shots that they have claimed are 'in-game'.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by old.Wildfire
And therein you've managed to prove yourself wrong, as you will find that none of what you have mentioned above have been used by blizzard (other than posing a shot.

Ahh, you didn't tell me you actually work at Blizzard and had watched the screenies being done. Incidentally, as far as I can see, there aren't any screenshots on Blizzard's sight that are specifically labelled as "in game". Please point me to them.

 

[-sudden-]

Ah, in this case those movies where someone filmed a blizzard member playing the game at the E3 2003 are pre-rendered as well?

http://wow.warcry.com/files/movies/

 

[jarl]

side note

a small sidenote

Horizon suck assorz tried teh beta. and no pvp so it will be like EQ, boooooooooooooooring CH monkies repeating PvE poop

FinalFantasy XI on teh other hand ownz been playing it a week now non hardcore up to lvl 9 and done some quests and missions. and just learned about mog house, weee haaaa 4000Gills waiting for me there from my actions keke.

the RvR will be released soon on also gona be quite good and require alot of skillz cus how the classes are made u need to use all yer neeto stuff or u suck.

So DF infilnobs dont try it ;p

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by -sudden-
Ah, in this case those movies where someone filmed a blizzard member playing the game at the E3 2003 are pre-rendered as well?

http://wow.warcry.com/files/movies/

Not necessarily But having said that, how long was the demo for? All demo's are scripted: the person doing it basically runs through a set of instructions of what to do, and can't deviate from the script unless they want it to break. What's more, its' not unheard of for a company to simply sit someone in front and have them mess around on the keyboard/mouse while a "demo" movie shows...

The games industry is a very, very dirty business.

 

[old.Wildfire]

No, you're just a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
The shots are real, go play with your JFK assassination scale models, I hear that's FOTM at the moment too.

edit: my work in the games industry was on Unreal Fortress which involved working very closely at times with Epic, and with Westwood who at the time were working on Renegade (although I was unfortunate enough not to go to the Westwood ModCon, as I missed the "who wants to go" post on the internal forums by a mere 5 minutes, during which time both tickets were taken ). Don't preach to me about how the games industry works, it's not half as cryptic or secretive as you make out.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by old.Wildfire
No, you're just a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
The shots are real, go play with your JFK assassination scale models, I hear that's FOTM at the moment too.

edit: my work in the games industry was on Unreal Fortress which involved working very closely at times with Epic, and with Westwood who at the time were working on Renegade (although I was unfortunate enough not to go to the Westwood ModCon, as I missed the "who wants to go" post on the internal forums by a mere 5 minutes, during which time both tickets were taken ). Don't preach to me about how the games industry works, it's not half as cryptic or secretive as you make out.

And I've seen it from the other side, as a journalist. The point is not that it's secretive: it's simply full of snakes, at least when it comes to marketing.

And, btw, the semi-personal flamebait ("paranoid conspiracy theorist"...) doesn't bother me. I really don't know why you're taking this a little personally, because I'm not trying to flame you. I'm certainly not preaching at you. I'm simply saying that I'm not going to shout out that a game is going to be the best thing ever made on the basis of some pre-release screenies. I've been disappointed far too many times to do that.

But, as some extras: never forget that Blizzard is now owned by Vivendi Universal, which in addition to being in cash trouble, is French. Goa Pt.2 here we come?

Plus, don't forget that the company's already lost the Schaefer's, David Brevik, and Bill Roper this year from Blizzard North. While that doesn't affect WoW directly, one of the cited reasons from Roper was interference from Vivendi, suggesting that the parent company is perhaps taking a little too much interest in the direction the developers want to take.

And finally, remember that Blizzard has committed itself to a simultaneous release on two platforms, Windows and Mac OS X. Like WCIII, it'll be one-disk/two OS's. That will make things more complex in terms of development, and (while A Good Thing in general) is definitely going to tax their resources (as far as I can tell, they're doing both versions in house, which is very rare - normally, games company's use specialist port shops like Feral to do Mac versions).

 

[iluvatur]

bad boy .. the NDA still on horizons ... i'll reserve my judgement till after it's lifted ;o

edit:sp

 

[Demolay]

Lets just relax in the fact that due to the enourmous amounts of wonga involved post release for online gaming - most (please God) will at least be purdy good - it's gonna be a few good years of watching it grow and enjoyin what will become a massive massive entertainment medium in the next few years (enuf to scare the shit out of the film industry I work in already!)

It's all good - it's all about enjoying ourselves, and as long as we remember that, then we'll get the most out of this new (ish)phenomenon...

So sit back fork out your 8 $$ every month have fun - and when you get bored - fk it try another - loads to choose from soon and all for the price of a limp kebab in Barnsley for a month of bashin takin the piss moanin laughin winning and losing - beats the shit out of playin pool down the "Dog and stinky turd"!

 

[-fwapp-]

Re: side note

Originally posted by jarl



So DF infilnobs dont try it ;p

the new term will be <insert overpowered ability here> nightelf hunters

 

[Demolay]

ewww sum1 say Vivendi cough cough nooooooooooooooo!