Would you come back if server population better?

[civy]

14 little words is all it would take to get me back playing

“Four hours of active DAoC a week will get you entry into WAR beta!”

 

[RS|Phil]

I'd come back if the server prime time pop was in the 2.5k range (both servers obv).

Or they cluster them with US servers
I know, that's not poss...apparently...cos then you'd not be able to log into the other servers .... that'd be a shame that not being able to play my level 1 char on the French servers ;p

 

[Gamah]

Life has moved on, i dont have time.

 

[MaditioN]

id active and play some when i get time if it got a huge pop boost 4real

 

[orbin]

Currently playing Lotro while waiting for WAR etc to be realeased. Maybe Age of Conan can be smth i dunno.

I would definitely resub if there were more ppl active.

 

[Thadius]

Make sem a gm and I will give everynpoen thatd plkays free rpss!!Xd!

 

[Bleeker]

no...

 

[Punishment]

Population decline is not the problem ... its a symptom of the problem which is player attitude

And its not gonna chance until the majority of players stop treating their enemies with the same amount of respect they would give nps's .

 

[Esselinithia]

Player attitude is one of the problems, but if it would be the core of the problem, we have a question: Why it is a massive problem on English clusters and why it doesn't affact anyone else. Even with the classic servers: English server had fate far worse than the German server, even when some "english" servers were presented as "international" servers to serve both english and french playerbase.

Should we attribute all of these problems to English people? Say they are much worse than french, german, american players? Should we make racist comments? Or look for some reasons for the current problems, and with classic we can't point to lack of advertisement.

The core problem for english servers: choice of many, home of none...

Many players choose these servers for easy communication

But since these players are very different, from different countries, cultures and most players have different playing styles, expect different things: english servers won't become your home.

You either have too big zerg, etc. (not enough space for everyone) or they are severely underpopulated and suffer proiblems for it, and no balanced state between them. They not only loose population slowly (like most other servers) but there are other visible cases where the servers lose lots of players.

The "cluster further" idea about the RP cluster didn't work well, as you see after the poll, it didn't happen. Having your "home" server, feeling at home on it, etc. is very important and this is a lession most people should learn.

Separation of different playing styles helps with this issue And people are often happy on servers with less players, and some good news can attract new players

 

[Takhasis]

Its definetly the attitude of the english speaking players...

talking to my m8's that moved to US, they play the style of "if its red its dead" - an no one minds!

Sure there's whine on VN boards but everyone just gets on with it - over here, if anyone DARES to play if-its-red-its-dead, they get so much sh*t on this forum, and in-game via PM's, that it just kills people's moral.

I'm afraid to say it, but if we adopted the US strategy and just got ON WITH PLAYING THE GAME, then the population might be better, and might entice those Avalon and US players back to their proper toons...

But, unfortunately, the day that the english speaking contingency whole-heartedly embrace the "if its red its dead" rule, will be the day that hell freezes over...

Sad really...

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Its definetly the attitude of the english speaking players...

talking to my m8's that moved to US, they play the style of "if its red its dead" - an no one minds!

Sure there's whine on VN boards but everyone just gets on with it - over here, if anyone DARES to play if-its-red-its-dead, they get so much sh*t on this forum, and in-game via PM's, that it just kills people's moral.

I'm afraid to say it, but if we adopted the US strategy and just got ON WITH PLAYING THE GAME, then the population might be better, and might entice those Avalon and US players back to their proper toons...

But, unfortunately, the day that the english speaking contingency whole-heartedly embrace the "if its red its dead" rule, will be the day that hell freezes over...

Sad really...

6 ppl waiting to RP PL you a new huntor on US m8, youll never look back!

 

[Imgormiel]

My problem seems entirely localised.

Yesterday I went to four of the main computer game selling shops in my home town of Liverpool. Here are the results of what I found when I wanted to order the game from my local shop.

Virgin - Don't stock anything to do with DAOC and have never heard of the game. Will order it if you use their website.

Game - Would stock it if it was on their pre-order list but it doesn't exist on that list and have never even herad of it.

Game Station - WTF is that game?!!? and no we won't order it for you.

HMV - probably the most helpful, will order it for you if you stump up the cash first and you wait 10 days for delivery to the shop.

As some of you may have read my previous thread regarding this matter of ordering LOTM, you will know that I don't have a credit card etc, no internet at home, and with the above results it's hardly surprising that I am not about to reactivate my account due to the sales issue or my internet (simply because I don't have the incentive to reactivate my account).

I really don't have an idea how things are since I haven't played for almost 12 months on live servers but even if I did reactivate, I'd say that i'd probably take a more relaxed view of the game and play casually.

 

[Kami]

I would probably come back if I only needed one account, simple fact is that on EU and US normal TOA servers you need two. Argue until you're blue in the face but only the US classic server is single account.

Waste of money, as much as I enjoy DAOC and wish to play with some old mates I won't throw money into an extra account just for a buff bot. This has been a fundamental problem of DAOC for years and one that was never, ever addressed on normal servers.

 

[Esselinithia]

You don't realy need 2 accounts, even on TOA servers, for good reason: When not on RvR, you don't need bots, you should focus on making groups with others, and have more fun that way anyway. So no need for BB in most PVE scenarios, unless you focus on greed and not fun.

In RvR scenarios: If your group can't provide buffs for you (not so good after shears, 1-2 rezzed mates etc) you might benefit from a bot shared with all other members of the team. But it doesn't mean every group member needs a bot, and to see it happen, you need to choose your group this way.

If you are soloing in a game that isn't designed for soloing: your choice your fault. And with your choice of "going out with maximum chances" you send a clear message to casual players: don't go out alone in the frontier, don't go out with a weaker group. And you put pressure on other soloers too, when they want to solo. This attitude also makes classes that benefit from self buffs, built in buffs, conc buffs, etc. much weaker, and this choice influences the balance as well.

This is the first place where soloers tend to be harmful for the game.

The next thing is: for soloers: if it is red and alone, it is "dead". Which means, not only real soloers are targets. Yet they want to be left alone, and it creates the problems described by Takhasis.

The third thing is greed: They want to claim an area for their own use. While an "fg" zone means: fgs know that they should attack other fgs (they want that) and people on solo missions aren't fg, and they don't stop soloers, etc. either. So their "isolation" from the rest of RvR is fair and equal for all sides. Soloers claim a place, and lock out people focusing on missions.

Since several healer, and buffer classes lost their chance to compete (due to soloers with buffbots), andat low rrs, it isn't easy to get a group when lots of people focuses on set groups or soloing, they can do about 2 things: join a zerg, or missions.

And for this reason, a solo area isn't based on "leave others alone and be left alone" principle like the fg zone. And if soloers doesn't leave others alone they have no reason to expect to be left alone.

With this behavior you have less PVEers, less healers ready to team up. So it hurts the chances of other players to compete seriously again.

As it was said before (don't know who was it): About the only advantage of OF was the wait at the port that encouraged grouping up with others. I think we would need some similar encouragement even now.

 

[Kami]

You don't realy need 2 accounts, even on TOA servers, for good reason: When not on RvR, you don't need bots, you should focus on making groups with others, and have more fun that way anyway. So no need for BB in most PVE scenarios, unless you focus on greed and not fun.

In RvR scenarios: If your group can't provide buffs for you (not so good after shears, 1-2 rezzed mates etc) you might benefit from a bot shared with all other members of the team. But it doesn't mean every group member needs a bot, and to see it happen, you need to choose your group this way.

If you are soloing in a game that isn't designed for soloing: your choice your fault. And with your choice of "going out with maximum chances" you send a clear message to casual players: don't go out alone in the frontier, don't go out with a weaker group. And you put pressure on other soloers too, when they want to solo. This attitude also makes classes that benefit from self buffs, built in buffs, conc buffs, etc. much weaker, and this choice influences the balance as well.

This is the first place where soloers tend to be harmful for the game.

The next thing is: for soloers: if it is red and alone, it is "dead". Which means, not only real soloers are targets. Yet they want to be left alone, and it creates the problems described by Takhasis.

The third thing is greed: They want to claim an area for their own use. While an "fg" zone means: fgs know that they should attack other fgs (they want that) and people on solo missions aren't fg, and they don't stop soloers, etc. either. So their "isolation" from the rest of RvR is fair and equal for all sides. Soloers claim a place, and lock out people focusing on missions.

Since several healer, and buffer classes lost their chance to compete (due to soloers with buffbots), andat low rrs, it isn't easy to get a group when lots of people focuses on set groups or soloing, they can do about 2 things: join a zerg, or missions.

And for this reason, a solo area isn't based on "leave others alone and be left alone" principle like the fg zone. And if soloers doesn't leave others alone they have no reason to expect to be left alone.

With this behavior you have less PVEers, less healers ready to team up. So it hurts the chances of other players to compete seriously again.

As it was said before (don't know who was it): About the only advantage of OF was the wait at the port that encouraged grouping up with others. I think we would need some similar encouragement even now.

I resubscribed back in April with one account, I tried both on Alb and Hib to get groups but was told by numerous people that they were running set groups or didn't need another cleric or druid. I went pointed out I had several decent alts all templated but they weren't interested.

The few times I started a group we simply couldn't get more than a couple of stealthers to group with my druid.

I will hopefully give DAOC another try next week if I get a chance but as yet I'm not sure whether to bother with EU and risk having to get my 2nd account subscribed or simply ignore EU and go back to the US classic server, I don't like the characters there half as much but at least I can get away with one account and not feel useless when I log in and can't get a group.

 

[Esselinithia]

English EU servers have problems with the community. US and french servers much friendlier (even if only a friend of mine speaks french and we brought a small team there), and when I visited spanish server (in its early days just to offer help even if I don't speak the language) it was very friendly as well

 

[Ctuchik]

English EU servers have problems with the community. US and french servers much friendlier (even if only a friend of mine speaks french and we brought a small team there), and when I visited spanish server (in its early days just to offer help even if I don't speak the language) it was very friendly as well

thats probably the biggest concern we are facing on dyvet. its the community itself that is driving players away more then anything imo.

i still put most of the blame on the 8v8/1v1 elitist ppl that were flaming ppl left and right whenever ppl "added". and that also made up the irvr rule that stated that "roleplayers" cant retake those keeps because they *need* it for enemies to spawn, and again flamed anyone that were retaking them to hell and back.

most of the ppl left playing on this cluster brought this situation on themself for the most part.


every now and then i resub a month just to see if said ppl have started thinking again, but alas they have not. its getting worse. i even got a PM from someone last time i subbed (you know who you are) that asked me to get the hell out of the ZONE him and his FG were in coz they were doing 8v8 duels and didnt wanna risk getting adds...


i mean, what the fuck?!?

THOSE kind of ppl are mostly the only ones left playing in rvr nowadays.

and nothing what so ever that GOA can do will ever be enough to make ppl want to play with those fucking ppl. unless u LIKE getting harassed and abused for RVR'ing.

my deepest respect to the few ppl that CAN take that sort of abuse for still following the "if its red its dead" code. wich this fucking game is BUILT around.

 

[Esselinithia]

They don't start thinking, but GOA might, and might decide to wave the banstick at those people.

I play on US servers, yet I don't have a "Red is dead" code, but Gaheris players don't tend to have that. But there is an odd tendency that makes me worried: Trying to solve some raids with "zerg" instead of tactics, see the current dragon raid attempts. But it isn't universal.

 

[Soulja_IA_]

thats probably the biggest concern we are facing on dyvet. its the community itself that is driving players away more then anything imo.

i still put most of the blame on the 8v8/1v1 elitist ppl that were flaming ppl left and right whenever ppl "added". and that also made up the irvr rule that stated that "roleplayers" cant retake those keeps because they *need* it for enemies to spawn, and again flamed anyone that were retaking them to hell and back.

most of the ppl left playing on this cluster brought this situation on themself for the most part.


every now and then i resub a month just to see if said ppl have started thinking again, but alas they have not. its getting worse. i even got a PM from someone last time i subbed (you know who you are) that asked me to get the hell out of the ZONE him and his FG were in coz they were doing 8v8 duels and didnt wanna risk getting adds...


i mean, what the fuck?!?

THOSE kind of ppl are mostly the only ones left playing in rvr nowadays.

and nothing what so ever that GOA can do will ever be enough to make ppl want to play with those fucking ppl. unless u LIKE getting harassed and abused for RVR'ing.

my deepest respect to the few ppl that CAN take that sort of abuse for still following the "if its red its dead" code. wich this fucking game is BUILT around.

So true Repped.
It only the few on Dyvet who made server worse by announcing "had enough u ***** I'm going US or Avalon" then a few more join bandwagon and then come back on FH to still insult those who do still play.

Soulja

 

[kivik]

post

Agree to an extent, it's not the biggest reason dyvet is in its current state. But can't deny it's bad for the server/game.

Oh and don't blame 1v1/8v8 players, blame the idiots. And yes there are 'idiot' red is dead-people too you know.

 

[kivik]

and that also made up the irvr rule that stated that "roleplayers" cant retake those keeps because they *need* it for enemies to spawn, and again flamed anyone that were retaking them to hell and back.

At the moment, Dyvet is deader than dead without iRvR. It's not the elitists that needs it, it's the server needs it to keep it alive. Sure, defending your frontier and retaking keeps is a part of the game, but is it really worth it when the consequences means less action, less players?

Not everything that's a part of the game has to be good, atleast not as long as Dyvet is in its current state.

This applies to the 'red is dead'-code aswell. Sure, an enemy is an enemy and should die, but is it really worth it adding/zerging this soloer over and over again until he finally logs/end subs?

Each to their own I guess.

 

[Ctuchik]

At the moment, Dyvet is deader than dead without iRvR. It's not the elitists that needs it, it's the server needs it to keep it alive.

i agree totally. i'm just saying that the 8v8/1v1 ppl were a big part of the cause that got to this situation. and they definetly(sp?) isnt the solution.

if everyone had just played the game like it were meant to be (like most ppl do on every other server in this game) we would have had alot better population now insted of flaming ppl away from it for "adding" and whatnot.


i'm NOT putting all the blame in the set FG's and soloers. but a big part of it.

i even dare to say that the elitist flamers have driven away almost as many players from this game (or the server) that GOA have. just that its been going on longer. its like they keep cutting so it wont stop bleeding to death.

 

[Raven]

most peoples point is that they really dont mind or care if people zerg, its when they go out of their way to spoil it for those that dont want to zerg. That is what killed the server. why cant people who zerg just do it in the populated areas, why do they insist on hunting out the soloers or the 8 mans just to force them to log? it is not a real war, it is a game.

that is probably the difference between avalon (for instance) the zergers zerg, the soleors solo and the 8 mans play 8v8, everyone is happy.

 

[Thadius]

most peoples point is that they really dont mind or care if people zerg, its when they go out of their way to spoil it for those that dont want to zerg. That is what killed the server. why cant people who zerg just do it in the populated areas, why do they insist on hunting out the soloers or the 8 mans just to force them to log? it is not a real war, it is a game.

that is probably the difference between avalon (for instance) the zergers zerg, the soleors solo and the 8 mans play 8v8, everyone is happy.

Exactly, hell, the server managed to coexhist 2002 til 2005, why not now?

There is less people granted, but therefore should be smaller zergs, less 8 mans so it should balance out

 

[Esselinithia]

Thadius: Like in all threads where this is brought up, I think you and friends will be busy explaining that leaving others alone is like leaving soloers alone. BUT soloers shouldn't leave others alone AND can make the game unplayable to others, while everyone should lave a soloer alone and give them domain and everything because a soloer quiting would be such a big loss.

Honestly: If a soloer makes lots of people unhappy and quit: Losing that soloer is winning other people. This is why GOA doesn't support soloers anymore, and this is why the usual big drop in population for summer wasn't bad this year.

So far all the big elite solo scene forgot one thing: people without buffbots, and classes that would have buffs (so not much benefit from BBs) have a definitive disadvantage against "soloers" and at low RRs when they aren't ready: no luck with groups in most cases, and a pug (low rr, not ready) don't have a good chance aganst experienced built groups.

So they only have 2 option: Zerg and use the chances when they have an upper hand, it includes killing soloers.
And missions.

If for a soloer: they are a valid target (solo and red) when doing missions, they have little chance for that, and WILL zerg soloers.

If you don't want that: don't whine, don't moan, don't flame, don't threaten to quit (who cares) but make sure they have a chance in any other way.

Solo scene has at least 5 good options if they want to solve these problems and be left alone:
1st: dress code (if you are a soloer use some colors) to identify valid targets
2nd: Go without buffbot and make it standard in your community, to reduce the differences
3rd: Be elite and not elitist: choose fights where you have a challenge and leave the weak targets alone.
4th: Avoid areas that are around keeps (mission targets, etc) and focus on places where you can fight with other soloers without conflict with others
5th: Based on what you see, and what you know about people (other soloers) try to identify other soloers and leave others alone.

All the above are valid moves if you want to move to "live and let live" or "play and let play" direction.

Sadly, solo scene demands everything and doesn't want to give anything to others. Sadly the members of so called solo scene saying: others are equals so they could harrash everyone, but noone should harrash soloers in each and every topic.

There are 2 kinds of people.

Ones who adapt. If they get attacked by soloers they bring friends and attack soloers, if they have to irvr they irvr, if they have to do missions they do missions, if they can run with pugs they join pugs, if they have to siege they siege, if they have to defend they defend.

And people who expect the whole world chanes to adapt to their playing style and become rude when it doesn't work.

The later is the problem. And it is worse when their own actions force others to do something and they are rude and mad because some people are actually doing it. Which is quite unique to the english speaking EU community.

This is why there isnothing between too big zerg and too much players and severe underpopulation. When nothing is good, GOA can't aim for a specific "good" population level, and this makes population problem unfixable.

 

[Thadius]

Ah, but servers that work are

Us classic
German servers

Each one has a community that knows what the other half wants and sometimes respects it.

Its only on dyvet that people whinge and report each ohter

 

[Thadius]

Thadius: Like in all threads where this is brought up, I think you and friends will be busy explaining that leaving others alone is like leaving soloers alone. BUT soloers shouldn't leave others alone AND can make the game unplayable to others, while everyone should lave a soloer alone and give them domain and everything because a soloer quiting would be such a big loss.

Honestly: If a soloer makes lots of people unhappy and quit: Losing that soloer is winning other people. This is why GOA doesn't support soloers anymore, and this is why the usual big drop in population for summer wasn't bad this year.

So far all the big elite solo scene forgot one thing: people without buffbots, and classes that would have buffs (so not much benefit from BBs) have a definitive disadvantage against "soloers" and at low RRs when they aren't ready: no luck with groups in most cases, and a pug (low rr, not ready) don't have a good chance aganst experienced built groups.

So they only have 2 option: Zerg and use the chances when they have an upper hand, it includes killing soloers.
And missions.

If for a soloer: they are a valid target (solo and red) when doing missions, they have little chance for that, and WILL zerg soloers.

If you don't want that: don't whine, don't moan, don't flame, don't threaten to quit (who cares) but make sure they have a chance in any other way.

Solo scene has at least 5 good options if they want to solve these problems and be left alone:
1st: dress code (if you are a soloer use some colors) to identify valid targets
2nd: Go without buffbot and make it standard in your community, to reduce the differences
3rd: Be elite and not elitist: choose fights where you have a challenge and leave the weak targets alone.
4th: Avoid areas that are around keeps (mission targets, etc) and focus on places where you can fight with other soloers without conflict with others
5th: Based on what you see, and what you know about people (other soloers) try to identify other soloers and leave others alone.

All the above are valid moves if you want to move to "live and let live" or "play and let play" direction.

Sadly, solo scene demands everything and doesn't want to give anything to others. Sadly the members of so called solo scene saying: others are equals so they could harrash everyone, but noone should harrash soloers in each and every topic.

There are 2 kinds of people.

Ones who adapt. If they get attacked by soloers they bring friends and attack soloers, if they have to irvr they irvr, if they have to do missions they do missions, if they can run with pugs they join pugs, if they have to siege they siege, if they have to defend they defend.

And people who expect the whole world chanes to adapt to their playing style and become rude when it doesn't work.

The later is the problem. And it is worse when their own actions force others to do something and they are rude and mad because some people are actually doing it. Which is quite unique to the english speaking EU community.

This is why there isnothing between too big zerg and too much players and severe underpopulation. When nothing is good, GOA can't aim for a specific "good" population level, and this makes population problem unfixable.

You never answered the question.

Why can it not coexist now like it did back in the day?

 

[Esselinithia]

Because it didn't coexist in a peaceful way even before. People moaned because too big zerg, etc.

OF port forced people to think seriously about joining a group (even a PuG) to avoid getting farmed quickly and spend a few minutes on the port again.

It also forced people to enter enemy lands at specific times (when they get ported) and there was a strong pressure move to milegates with the rest.

While it was bad for many casual players (low chance to compete against high RRs) people who played, played with same rules.

Sieges required coordinated effort so were an event, where you had a goal, and most people respected it. When you wanted DF, relics, etc. and you had your goals shared with people who had the same rules.

OF had many limits, many reasons for people to hate it, but by putting pressure on people, and limiting their freedom was good for the community.

NF is as good as you make it. It depends a lot on community, and gives a lot of freedom to the player. Dyvet community can't use this freedom.

The very goal for NF was simple: to provide a chance for everyone. To make RAs less important. Even TOA helped with this. Yes: MLs made people stronger, but with FoP the nerfed MCL became far less important than it was in OF and SI times. The goal was to open new possibilities for people who were unable to compete before.

Missions are here for the same purpose. They are here to let the odd cleric, friar, etc. earn some RAs even without groups, even when they can't compete with so called soloers (if you use a buffbot that means you use 2 characters... so not realy soloing).

Solo dueling, claiming zones, camping quest locations for easy kills, etc. is different: it is an unwanted side effect and often it is against the spirit of tha game. It is against what developers wanted. It is against what is considered as good for the game by them.

Dyvet is bad because it has a lot of different playing styles in same area, and no strong community to use NF in a good way.

And one more thing: GOA made a mistake. While one could argue how much people would play on a cooperative server, on roleplay servers, etc. I know one thing: In US different server types reduce the chances for conflict.

You are a PVE fanatic carebear? You won't have conflict with soloer scene. Why? Because good luck for the soloer who wants to farm you on Gaheris. You think people should roleplay their characters and use this as guideline even in RVR? You are on an RP server, and most fg crew won't have a problem for it. Why? Because they are on other servers. Want to solo without a buffbot? You don't have to relly on other soloers choosig fair fights, you play on classic. And fgs there have no reason to pick on you, they have enough enemies to fight.

I love PVE, and I love Gaheris.
While on Prydwen it was annoying when some soloers attacked my lone cleric when I tried to work for important RAs, or my lone theurgist. And when I brought friends for defense they flamed, moaned, etc. for adds.

On Gaheris, as a PVE fan, I have another problem with RAs: It is often hard to know which RA I want first. Which would help with leveling, which is better for raids, or farming? (On Gaheris you get RPs for turning in seals, and at level 50 you get 3000 RP/seal. At lower level you get far less... Seals are drops from frontier. Also you get 1 free realm skill point on each and every level between 20 and 50, so you get 30 extra realm skill points above what would you have with same realm rank on a normal server.)

This is why US works for me, and EU doesn't.
Yes, if I get farmed by soloers, and I bring a small group to make sure they don't stop me from questing, doing missions, and then both the soloers, my friends, and me will have bad memories. Some because they got farmed and flamed. Some because the adds, and groups killing them while soloing, some for verbal abuse.

A cooperative server doesn't need too high number of players.
A server for soloers wouldn't need more than 100 players (so you can count on 66 enemies fighting against you, which is more soloers than you had on a server with huge populating and big zergs)
On an fg server you still don't need much...
On an "army vs army big war" type server you need several zergs, and enough people leveling for "reinforcements" But yet...

...far less than what you need on a server that aims to make everyone happy.

Why? Because if only every 5th encounter you see on the server is a soloer, and you get killed by groups, etc, you will be unhappy and want less attacking groups and more soloers.

If they same fg sees: Only every 5th encounter is with an fg, they will want more fgs....

You can continue with other types, and see how it won't be enough and could be too much.

If a server has 100 or 10000: that is not much different as long as you can have fun often and more often than you face problems. If you have to wait a lot to meet a fun and clean fight, because either you get adds, or have to find your enemy, or you run into PVEers, etc. you will either blame low pop (not enough soloers) or high pop (ok there are enough soloers but too much of everything else).

THIS is why separation of playing styles is vital to solve the population problem.

No pressure / forced path like in OF, no united community with shared ideals and shared cultural background, and no separation of playing styles with server types is enough to create this problem.

And you don't need code to define server types: Policy enforced by GMs, respected and enforced by community is enough for it.

 

[Ctuchik]

most peoples point is that they really dont mind or care if people zerg, its when they go out of their way to spoil it for those that dont want to zerg. That is what killed the server. why cant people who zerg just do it in the populated areas, why do they insist on hunting out the soloers or the 8 mans just to force them to log? it is not a real war, it is a game.

that is probably the difference between avalon (for instance) the zergers zerg, the soleors solo and the 8 mans play 8v8, everyone is happy.

this would have worked about a year and a half ago. now the populated areas *are* where the FG's and soloers are running, and they use the irvr keeps just as much as anyone else do.

when they STOP using those keeps and actually go somwhere else, then i can see the point you are making. but again, the population isnt big enough for that anymore. were FORCED to go to the same place.

and noone is forcing anyone to log. its just the zergers (the extreme few thats left) hunt down the 8v8 ppl just as much as the 8v8 ppl hunt down the soloers. most ppl are down to "anything goes" just to get SOME realm points, there isnt enough ppl rvr'ing to be picky about who to kill or not.

 

[Ctuchik]

Because it didn't coexist in a peaceful way even before. People moaned because too big zerg, etc.

that was mostly because of FPS issues then anything tho. remember when the really big zergs were out moving and u'd be lucky if u had 2 frames a second even of a kickass machine. this is rarly the case nowadays tho, be that from the lack of big zergs or mythics better coding i dont know.