Would this be a fair nerf to Remedy?

[illu]

Just out of curiosity where the hell do u go? cause since cluster ive meet u once.

Mainly albland bridges / agramon bridge. If there is an instaport I'll be there. I avoid hib like the plague (don't like their casters or NS's :>) I only play 3 nights a week because of RL and GF. But I try and play other times if I can get away with it

Oli - Illu

 

[dub]

still people defending remedy i see , no change on rut will fix it , no change on what goes throu will fix it , cant fix it as long as it stops poisons from firing.


and to claim 200 hp is a fair exchange for not having poisons firing is ignorant at best

 

[Melachi]

Wasnt going to reply to this thread, but then the usual happened, someone posted a load of shite..

one of the problms really is, that remedy is only really OPed versus 2 classes, YES they happen to be 2 classes we fight alot, but still, that's half the problem, stealther role within the New Frontiers RvR system.

for me, if it blocked poisens alone, and not procs (/use items work i.e. battler) then it would be pretty fair

Come on Neffneff, this is a game, have the balls to admit, you want remedy to stay its overpowered state as it is.

First you say, Its only OP against two classes, that it has limited effect against every other class. Which is a fair arguement.

But then you say, hmm maybe make it completely and uterly useless against anything but the two classes.

Which just reaks of this:

I play a nightshade, and am perfectly happy with the current stealther RvR, which involves 90% fighting against other assasins, and currently my rr5 RA is perfect for this, and gives me a great advantage and I want to keep that advantage, but im going to lie to you and say that its not really that good because its crap against everyone else in the game.


How about, we change remedy to a 15 minute reuse timer ra, that in someway or form helps with landing CS style attacks, much like the Infil & SB ra's.

Like lets say, double damage from stealth openers, takes 5 seconds to setup, target required in 2000 range.

Thats allready better and very similar to infils, and is argueably roughly the same level or better than SB's, and they seem to do fine with their rr5's.

After all that is the main complaint of NS's and Assasins in general, that they are being left out of the regular RvR sense?

But no, you want an OP ability, when it matters, against the other realms assasins.

 

[Zagg]

Would already help if reuse timer and duration would be adjusted to the other RR5 abilities... hence 10min/30sec

Personally I don't like these "fixes", when you can not use abilty1 while abilty2is running. Might be because I have a sorcerer, which is gimped since they "fixed" SOI... (and before you whine: It's gimped in grouped RvR.... because you can't MoC, if someone uses BoF or Warguard)

 

[Minstrel]

Would already help if reuse timer and duration would be adjusted to the other RR5 abilities... hence 10min/30sec

Personally I don't like these "fixes", when you can not use abilty1 while abilty2is running. Might be because I have a sorcerer, which is gimped since they "fixed" SOI... (and before you whine: It's gimped in grouped RvR.... because you can't MoC, if someone uses BoF or Warguard)

U saying that u cant kill stuff anymore cause u cant fire soi/moc + lajtap anymore? rofl

 

[Void959]

I think your original suggestion would work illu, but it doesn't make much sense in the current RA structure, none of the RAs have had any dependance whatsoever on ML or arti timers so far. I think any of the traditional nerf suggestions would be better, like making it only effect DOT poisons, or putting it on 15 minute timer, etc.

Just make the SB/Inf abilities equivalent in power.

How about SB's get an ability like this:
5min RUT, 1min DUR, Doesn't break stealth, Effect:
When using two weapons, the left axe modifier is removed. In essense, both weapons will now hit for 100% damage.

I also don't think this would be a good idea either tbh. Why? because remedy is only stupidly OP in assassin vs assassin fights, so to be able to counter it the SB and infil ablities would have to be pretty damn powerful too, BUT they would then also be seriously powerful against any melee enemies, giving the SBs and infils a significant overall advantage.

 

[Arumos]

i think in general all rr5 are fucked up, mythic drunk or something when they made them?

rm rr5 is 90% evade.....rofl... and the reuse timer is 10min, although could be funny if i spec staff in DR, pd5 toughness5 mop4 dex3 or something, fookin ninja dwarf whacking down all u stealthers with rr5 up 50 dark for dmg add i mean...be ready people..

 

[Zagg]

U saying that u cant kill stuff anymore cause u cant fire soi/moc + lajtap anymore? rofl

Sigh... I am not taking about Solo play.

I know Sorc are still very good soloers and SoI+MoC was op'd. NO caster should have melee immunity (/looks at SM pets...).

But that is no reason to nerf a class while being grouped... I mean your main CC'ers, demezzers can still use MoC when BoF/Warguard is running and turn the fight... sorc can't!

 

[Ashala]

i think in general all rr5 are fucked up, mythic drunk or something when they made them?

rm rr5 is 90% evade.....rofl... and the reuse timer is 10min, although could be funny if i spec staff in DR, pd5 toughness5 mop4 dex3 or something, fookin ninja dwarf whacking down all u stealthers with rr5 up 50 dark for dmg add i mean...be ready people..

fucked up as in worthless or fucked up as in unbalanced ?

 

[Puppet]

Just make the SB/Inf abilities equivalent in power.

How about SB's get an ability like this:
5min RUT, 1min DUR, Doesn't break stealth, Effect:
When using two weapons, the left axe modifier is removed. In essense, both weapons will now hit for 100% damage.


Oh and Puppet, you used to be able to contribute on a decent level. All you do now is troll.

Funny, but u're contradicting yourselves now. I said Remedy is a rather small thing in the great scheme of the game. Remedy is OP against 2 classes, compare that to a Warlock who's OP against about 25 classes. At RR1, all the time. If you want balance, I would suggest a WL-change before Remedy :O

And having the Left Axe modifier removed !? LOL now tháts overpowered. What ur basically saying 'RR5 Shadowblades will have a 40% dmg boost compared to a medium LeftAxe spec'. Thats even more OP then Remedy is AND it works against all classes. Brilliant, once again Aza xD

edit: Not to mention the fact a Shadowblade then could spec for pure 2H with high weapon and CS, and go 'LeftAxe-modus' without any penalty. 'Hey I got 1 LeftAxe spec, but look Im doing full damage with both my weapons on all swings!' Fucking clueless xD

 

[Void959]

nvm

 

[Arumos]

fucked up as in worthless or fucked up as in unbalanced ?

unbalanced. theurg gets aoe pet stun thing which is insta win vs stealthers/tanks etc if they know how to use it, not to mention they already got insane range pet spam and aoe mezz. whilst i'm sat here on my rm with some shitty evade crap that barely ever works. tbh i think they either need to readdress the rr5 abilities or remove them because when they are up on some classes they are insta win.

 

[Melachi]

Funny, but u're contradicting yourselves now. I said Remedy is a rather small thing in the great scheme of the game. Remedy is OP against 2 classes, compare that to a Warlock who's OP against about 25 classes. At RR1, all the time. If you want balance, I would suggest a WL-change before Remedy :O

Sorry but thats horseshit. If your going to pull the "grand scheme of things" defense, then you cant in the same breath complain about Warlocks, because what difirence does a Warlock make in a big Zerg fight? Insta kills someone and then becomes a lower dps caster.

So your either saying, Remedy is bullshit, or Warlocks are fine.

 

[Ashala]

unbalanced. theurg gets aoe pet stun thing which is insta win vs stealthers/tanks etc if they know how to use it, not to mention they already got insane range pet spam and aoe mezz. whilst i'm sat here on my rm with some shitty evade crap that barely ever works. tbh i think they either need to readdress the rr5 abilities or remove them because when they are up on some classes they are insta win.

the whole reason with RR5 abilities is to come up with a way to give each class something "UNIQUE" in RvR after they remade all the RA's from OF to NF, and as i see it, 90% evade is fuckign awesome if you got assist train on you, same goes for stun proc which is clerics RR5 ability

as i see it the RR5 stuff is ok as it is

 

[Righthandof]

as i see it the RR5 stuff is ok as it is

tell me a situation when paladin rr5 is handy pls. (triple heal chant excluding user... on a 15 min rut!!!)

groups start crying as soon as i play anything else than end regen, and you cant even press the button when soloing.. fun rr5 ra \o/

 

[UriZeN]

making remedy 10m rut like every other rr5 is enough or making stealther rr5's same rut as remedy could work too imo!!

 

[Puppet]

Sorry but thats horseshit. If your going to pull the "grand scheme of things" defense, then you cant in the same breath complain about Warlocks, because what difirence does a Warlock make in a big Zerg fight? Insta kills someone and then becomes a lower dps caster.

So your either saying, Remedy is bullshit, or Warlocks are fine.

'Grand scheme of things' in the solo-world obviously. What I mean, is using Remedy against a merc overpowered? Against a thane? Against a cabalist? Theurg, Berserker, Savage, Wizard, Warrior? No. It only is 'overpowered' against 2 classes: Shadowblades and Infiltrators.

Lots of classes on their own are overpowered in some circumstances, a warlock on its own is overpowered against the majority of classes. Hell, Testudo is overpowered against MOC-sorcs and Warlord-users. I can think of more overpowered uses of Testudo then of Remedy (!)

The point Im trying to make: Remedy is overpowered, but nothing in the grand scheme of 1vs1. Dirty Tricks is better then Remedy against more classes.

With that in mind, and wanting balance, its utterly stupid to propose the 'No LeftAxe penalty as RR5 RA'. I show you :

RR5 Shadowblade:
Assume Five-spec:
35 Stealth
40 LeftAxe
34 Critstrike
32 Envenom
36 Sword

40+15 LeftAxe (55 LA) gives:
2*(LA spec*0.34%+62.5%) ==> 162.4% damage.

Proposed RR5 RA would give a 37.6% dmg-boost to this shadowblade.

For a 34 LA guy it gives 41.7% dmg-boost.

For a Critblade (with 1 LA) it would give approx 80% dps-boost compared to the 2H weapon.

That's why the proposed RR5 RA is stupid and not a question for balance, but a request to get back into the overpowered LA-era.

 

[Puppet]

tell me a situation when paladin rr5 is handy pls. (triple heal chant excluding user... on a 15 min rut!!!)

groups start crying as soon as i play anything else than end regen, and you cant even press the button when soloing.. fun rr5 ra \o/

You can twist in a healchant without loosing the effect of the endurance-chant. Ofcourse a 138 groupheal isnt much in RvR, but sometimes it can be handy. I often use it when guarding a caster against the MA-train. Sometimes that 138 heal, combined with Vehement Renewal, might be just enough to keep him alive before the clerics get going.

 

[Melachi]

'Grand scheme of things' in the solo-world obviously. What I mean, is using Remedy against a merc overpowered? Against a thane? Against a cabalist? Theurg, Berserker, Savage, Wizard, Warrior? No. It only is 'overpowered' against 2 classes: Shadowblades and Infiltrators.

Lots of classes on their own are overpowered in some circumstances, a warlock on its own is overpowered against the majority of classes. Hell, Testudo is overpowered against MOC-sorcs and Warlord-users. I can think of more overpowered uses of Testudo then of Remedy (!)

The point Im trying to make: Remedy is overpowered, but nothing in the grand scheme of 1vs1. Dirty Tricks is better then Remedy against more classes.

Im glad we agree Remedy is overpowered. Now can we agree it should be changed? To something thats has an acceptable level of value in the "grand scheme of things in the solo world"?

Dont use the , theres worse stuff out there arguement. Of course there is more overpowered stuff, that doesnt make Remedy any more acceptable. And if that is your arguement, then you loose absoloutely all right to ever whine about anything, other than the single most overpowered thing in the game in all aspects which is... (I dunno actually).

 

[Puppet]

Im glad we agree Remedy is overpowered. Now can we agree it should be changed? To something thats has an acceptable level of value in the "grand scheme of things in the solo world"?

Dont use the , theres worse stuff out there arguement. Of course there is more overpowered stuff, that doesnt make Remedy any more acceptable. And if that is your arguement, then you loose absoloutely all right to ever whine about anything, other than the single most overpowered thing in the game in all aspects which is... (I dunno actually).

Im all for a change to Remedy, really. At the same time however, I think there are more urgent pressing problems in the game. Remedy is overpowered, yes... against two classes.

And what good would do a Remedy-change ? It would help 2 classes. Fixing Warlocks would help 35 classes. What would you pick ? Oh wait, you are a Mid, Warlock-change wont help you much.

Anyhow, if Remedy gets fixed/nerfed, then thats a direct indication Mythic does pursuit balance in 1vs1 fights. Then I wonder how they defend Warlocks at the same time ? Or Bonedancers? Or Dirty Tricks? The list goes on and on.

 

[theslayeruk]

Haha, whats wrong illu, got raped by someone using slash weapons?

<add sympathy>

 

[Kanim]

the whole reason with RR5 abilities is to come up with a way to give each class something "UNIQUE" in RvR after they remade all the RA's from OF to NF, and as i see it, 90% evade is fuckign awesome if you got assist train on you, same goes for stun proc which is clerics RR5 ability

as i see it the RR5 stuff is ok as it is

in theory awesome, in practice useless.

 

[Meradesh]

Redo Remedy & Vipper to affect only poisons and not procs, 10 minuts RU on Remedy. And give some no-unbalancing love to Sb rr5 should do.

 

[Arumos]

the whole reason with RR5 abilities is to come up with a way to give each class something "UNIQUE" in RvR after they remade all the RA's from OF to NF, and as i see it, 90% evade is fuckign awesome if you got assist train on you, same goes for stun proc which is clerics RR5 ability

as i see it the RR5 stuff is ok as it is

I would have thought the same wish it was true.

 

[Mastade]

In the meanwhile.. you haven't beaten my shade yet Illu, resists or no resists

 

[illu]

Haha, whats wrong illu, got raped by someone using slash weapons?

<add sympathy>

Nah was bored at work today :> But I have learnt the in's and out of remedy from this thread now, so I've been educated. It is a slightly OP ability, but can just about be worked around at high RR. I still feel sorry for low RR or low MoP assassins though :/

Oli - Illu

 

[illu]

In the meanwhile.. you haven't beaten my shade yet Illu, resists or no resists

Your time will come Hobbit-boy :>

When you going to play him again?

Oli - Illu

PS How is hobbit specced or what weapons do you use? He hits too damn hard :>

 

[Xrystofer]

here's the thing, the VERY first thing you should remember. RR5 ability IS supposed to provide an advantage.

though in its current state i agree its slightly too much advantage. for me, if it blocked poisens alone, and not procs (/use items work i.e. battler) then it would be pretty fair, an advantage, but not as OPed as is now. to use remedy, 1. it has to be hit Bfore someone hits you 2. it costs ~200 HPs, i would consider this a good trade for blocking poisens. but blocking malice/heater procs etc as it does atm is what makes it silly for me. procs R a gift from the god of RNG, they can be the things that turn fights, allow low RR opponants a chance (no matter how slim, they SHOULD have a chance)

your proposal seems a little extreme to me, as i'd much rather have acces to my /use2 on malice than remedy. but imo, nerf the fact that it blocks procs.

cost 200 hp but when they str/con debuff u, u lose more than 200 hp

 

[Chrstffr]

i would like a respec to celt, access to phoebus necklace and 2.5x spec points, when they nerf remedy ty.

 

[Yeke]

Oh no It's only overpowered against 2 class's improve remedy!!1