Would this be a fair nerf to Remedy?

illu

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Was just thinking. I read in another post about a high RR NS using Remedy and Malice in the same fight on an opponent (ouch).
Now I know Remedy blocks pretty much everything that is thrown at it poison and proc and /use2 abilities wise (it does block malice and battler effects as well yes?).
If the NS knows what they are doing and re-applies poisons, they should in theory win every fight Remedy is up (even if the other person uses purge etc), because they can mirror everything the other person is doing, and they have the added benefit of the remedy effect too.

Eg
SB has SoM/uses PS/uses Battler(or Malice)/uses Pre-poisoned weaps
NS has SoM/uses PS/uses Battler(or Malice)/Remedy negates poisons (and battler affect?)/uses poisoned weaps

SB purges, NS re-applies poisons -> SB dead

Add Phoebus Harp into the equation and SB will have a slightly better chance.
If any of those timers are down, the SB or INF is in trouble.

Maybe Remedy should be on a unique timer that stops malice and battler being used in the 1 minute it is up. That would make the NS have to make a choice whether to use it or not, and stop them being uber OP while it is up.

Then the fight would look like this:
SB has SoM/uses PS/uses Battler(or Malice)/uses Pre-poisoned weaps
NS has SoM/uses PS/Remedy negates poisons (and battler affect?)/uses poisoned weaps
SB purges NS poisons, hopefully has battler buff up, NS re-applies poisons -> SB struggling but has battler effect up so might be a close fight. SB/INF has chance of a win.

Of course the SB/INF could simply spec more MoP to counter Remedy, but it just seems a shame that NS's can pick fights with SB/INF, SB's pick fights with INFs mainly and INF's pick fights with SB's mainly.
I want to fight more NS's, but I don't want to give them easy RP :>

Opinions?

Oli - Illu
 

Puppet

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What if the SB is running with 6 resist-buffs, strafes so much I cant land a single hit, he uses Battler while he already has Phoebus harp running AND is with 3 other Mid-stealthers?

I once hit Remedy and attacked a warlock, I insta died. Remedy sucks.
 

Azathrim

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Just make the SB/Inf abilities equivalent in power.

How about SB's get an ability like this:
5min RUT, 1min DUR, Doesn't break stealth, Effect:
When using two weapons, the left axe modifier is removed. In essense, both weapons will now hit for 100% damage.


Oh and Puppet, you used to be able to contribute on a decent level. All you do now is troll. :)
 

Neffneff

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here's the thing, the VERY first thing you should remember. RR5 ability IS supposed to provide an advantage.

though in its current state i agree its slightly too much advantage. for me, if it blocked poisens alone, and not procs (/use items work i.e. battler) then it would be pretty fair, an advantage, but not as OPed as is now. to use remedy, 1. it has to be hit Bfore someone hits you 2. it costs ~200 HPs, i would consider this a good trade for blocking poisens. but blocking malice/heater procs etc as it does atm is what makes it silly for me. procs R a gift from the god of RNG, they can be the things that turn fights, allow low RR opponants a chance (no matter how slim, they SHOULD have a chance)

your proposal seems a little extreme to me, as i'd much rather have acces to my /use2 on malice than remedy. but imo, nerf the fact that it blocks procs.
 

Azathrim

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illu said:
(it does block malice and battler effects as well yes?).

It drops the Malice proc. Since Battler proc doesn't affect the shade it shouldn't pop that. Neither of the two charges are affected by Remedy though.
 

illu

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Puppet said:
What if the SB is running with 6 resist-buffs, strafes so much I cant land a single hit, he uses Battler while he already has Phoebus harp running AND is with 3 other Mid-stealthers?

I once hit Remedy and attacked a warlock, I insta died. Remedy sucks.

Well in DR you can have 6 resist buffs too :>
If they strafe - you can strafe - if they run through - walk backwards.
If he uses battler and PH, then NS might have to think a little bit instead of Remedy - win :>
If he is running with 3 other mid stealthers - you are dead anyway :>
Was talking about mainly 1on1 confrontations......

Why use remedy on a warlock btw?

And Manisch - Remedy is NS RR5 ability that in assassin fights, balances the fights in their favour, a LOT, because it stops all poisons and I believe it stops all negative effects from malice2 and battler2 going on them.
 

Azathrim

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illu said:
[...] and I believe it stops all negative effects from malice2 and battler2 going on them.

It doesnt' stop charges. Only procs that hit the shade and poisons.
 

illu

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Azathrim said:
Just make the SB/Inf abilities equivalent in power.

How about SB's get an ability like this:
5min RUT, 1min DUR, Doesn't break stealth, Effect:
When using two weapons, the left axe modifier is removed. In essense, both weapons will now hit for 100% damage.


Oh and Puppet, you used to be able to contribute on a decent level. All you do now is troll. :)

I like the sound of that 100% thing - that would be interesting :> Not sure how much more we would hit for but it's got to be better than Shadowstrike. Saying that, it would still be nice to have Shadowstrike for comedy value.

Oli - Illu
 

Minstrel

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illu said:
Well in DR you can have 6 resist buffs too :>
If they strafe - you can strafe - if they run through - walk backwards.
If he uses battler and PH, then NS might have to think a little bit instead of Remedy - win :>
If he is running with 3 other mid stealthers - you are dead anyway :>
Was talking about mainly 1on1 confrontations......

Why use remedy on a warlock btw?

And Manisch - Remedy is NS RR5 ability that in assassin fights, balances the fights in their favour, a LOT, because it stops all poisons and I believe it stops all negative effects from malice2 and battler2 going on them.

Dont tell me u never killed a rr5 + NS who used Remedy cause i wont belive u. Remedy is OP in combination with SoM/Malice /use2 (when u meet a NS with those up u can pretty much sit down). But when SoM/Malice aint up its pretty much an ok RA. I have not once lost fights with remedy up. So please dont say Remedy "balances the fights in their favour" cause its not really like that.
 

Haggus

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Maybe make it so with Remedy up, you can't use Battler/Malice?

Gifv back MoC and SoI please....
 

Neffneff

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one of the problms really is, that remedy is only really OPed versus 2 classes, YES they happen to be 2 classes we fight alot, but still, that's half the problem, stealther role within the New Frontiers RvR system.

the other prob is that the 2 other assasins RR5s suck tbh, and aint doing their job to provide a small boost/advantage.

one solution is to fix the other assasins RR5s as suggested above, but THEN the problem is that their RR5s are even better, as if you we're to boost dmg as stated above, that would provide a boost against ALL classes in daoc, 44 classes? where as remedy only assists against 2.

one thgouht i came accross for boosting SBs btw was supplying them with a Phoebus type RR5 that blocks a portion of style dmg, similar timer as remedy.

then another thoguht for an infil RR5 was a free SL type ability.

*shrugs*
 

wittor

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illu said:
Remedy is NS RR5 ability that in assassin fights, balances the fights in their favour, a LOT

so are youre fucking resist buffs.
why do you bring this remedy thing up anyway? if you can't win a 1on1 with resist buffs up then you might aswell delete ur char.


also how the hell can you compare something when you run with perma resists ??? try to drop them , rvr w/o it and then try to compare stuff mmk.
but I agree with 1 thing the timer should be longer but anyway u can't compare sbs/infs/ns in the way you play
 

illu

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Azathrim said:
It doesnt' stop charges. Only procs that hit the shade and poisons.

So if I use malice2 on an NS - they will get the negative malice2 effect on them?
And if I use the battler2 on an NS - they get the negative battler2 ABS effect on them?

I have always been under the impression that when remedy is up - it blocks the negative effects of those 2.

If it doesn't block those effects - it's not as OP as I thought it was.

Oli - Illu

Remedy Active Nightshade ingests poison that costs 10% life but grants poison/dot/proc immunity for 60 seconds. Can be activated while stealthed without breaking stealth. HP loss is returned when the duration is up. 300 sec
 

AngeLujo

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well i think the silly thing about remedy is RUT. i don't think any other RR5 ability has that low timer (5 min :eek:) except mincer's calming notes which is not a useless ability but far more useless than remedy. put it on a 10 or 15 min timer and i won't be bothered imo
 

Neffneff

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illu said:
So if I use malice2 on an NS - they will get the negative malice2 effect on them?
And if I use the battler2 on an NS - they get the negative battler2 ABS effect on them?

I have always been under the impression that when remedy is up - it blocks the negative effects of those 2.

If it doesn't block those effects - it's not as OP as I thought it was.

malice /use2 doesnt apply a negative effect on your target, it only makes you 50% melee immune, and boosts your stas for 20 secs (only ^^), then the exact opposite for another 20 secs.

and yes battler /use2 debuff lands on remedied shade, as does all charges..ie.e javalins heat debuff etc etc.

if you need proof watch my NS vid again, there is a fight with a RR6 hunter who uses battler on me, you can plainly see it land, and all related system msgs.
 

Azathrim

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wittor said:
so are youre fucking resist buffs.
why do you bring this remedy thing up anyway? if you can't win a 1on1 with resist buffs up then you might aswell delete ur char.


also how the hell can you compare something when you run with perma resists ??? try to drop them , rvr w/o it and then try to compare stuff mmk.

And what limits you from running two bots like the SB have to?
 

illu

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Minstrel said:
Dont tell me u never killed a rr5 + NS who used Remedy cause i wont belive u. Remedy is OP in combination with SoM/Malice /use2 (when u meet a NS with those up u can pretty much sit down). But when SoM/Malice aint up its pretty much an ok RA. I have not once lost fights with remedy up. So please dont say Remedy "balances the fights in their favour" cause its not really like that.

Did you read what you typed? Freudian slip? :> "I have not once lost fights with remedy up....."

wittor said:
so are youre fucking resist buffs.
why do you bring this remedy thing up anyway? if you can't win a 1on1 with resist buffs up then you might aswell delete ur char.


also how the hell can you compare something when you run with perma resists ??? try to drop them , rvr w/o it and then try to compare stuff mmk.

Riiiiiiiiiight.........the perma resists are up for 11 minutes, and you get them in 2 weeks time :> Also I'm sure your buffbots give resists no? And if I am fighting solo against any class, of course I'm going to go out tooled up! Now stop your whining Wittor and come play more. Come and enjoy your Alb domination with all the relics.

Oli - Illu
 

illu

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Neffneff said:
malice /use2 doesnt apply a negative effect on your target, it only makes you 50% melee immune, and boosts your stas for 20 secs (only ^^), then the exact opposite for another 20 secs.

and yes battler /use2 debuff lands on remedied shade, as does all charges..ie.e javalins heat debuff etc etc.

if you need proof watch my NS vid again, there is a fight with a RR6 hunter who uses battler on me, you can plainly see it land, and all related system msgs.

Ahhhhhhhhh. This explains a lot :> This is really stuff I should know, but was never really sure how it affected NS's. Thanks neffneff.

Oli - Illu
 

Minstrel

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illu said:
So if I use malice2 on an NS - they will get the negative malice2 effect on them?
And if I use the battler2 on an NS - they get the negative battler2 ABS effect on them?

I have always been under the impression that when remedy is up - it blocks the negative effects of those 2.

If it doesn't block those effects - it's not as OP as I thought it was.

Oli - Illu

Remedy Active Nightshade ingests poison that costs 10% life but grants poison/dot/proc immunity for 60 seconds. Can be activated while stealthed without breaking stealth. HP loss is returned when the duration is up. 300 sec

Guess someone said it before me ...
 

Minstrel

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illu said:
Did you read what you typed? Freudian slip? :> "I have not once lost fights with remedy up....."



Riiiiiiiiiight.........the perma resists are up for 11 minutes, and you get them in 2 weeks time :> Also I'm sure your buffbots give resists no? And if I am fighting solo against any class, of course I'm going to go out tooled up! Now stop your whining Wittor and come play more. Come and enjoy your Alb domination with all the relics.

Oli - Illu

Yea i wanted to say i have lost to many fights with remedy up. Nerf no coffe :twak:
 

Azathrim

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illu said:
Ahhhhhhhhh. This explains a lot :> This is really stuff I should know, but was never really sure how it affected NS's. Thanks neffneff.

Oli - Illu

Pfft, obviously I failed to explain it to you two times on page 1. Glad you finally got it though. :)
 

illu

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So this is how the fight would go:

SB has SoM/uses PS/uses Battler(or Malice)/uses Pre-poisoned weaps
NS has SoM/uses PS/uses Battler(or Malice)/Remedy negates poisons /uses poisoned weaps

SB purges,
NS purges,
<temporarily everything could be even at this stage>
NS re-applies poisons -> SB/INF in trouble

So basically, SB's need Slash/Heat/Body capped, Phoebus Harp would be handy and they will have a better chance. Also as much MoP as possible is handy.

My brain really isn't functioning this morning, but NS's can purge the battler effect?
Also I suppose another good NS killing tactic is SL+PA+CD with venom before they can hit Remedy?
Any other weaknesses we can exploit? I suppose if you see a NS - you can actively try and avoid them for 1 minute? Once Remedy runs out I take it poisons can land again. Is there a message in the chat window that comes up when the ability has expired?

Oli - Illu
 

illu

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Azathrim said:
Pfft, obviously I failed to explain it to you two times on page 1. Glad you finally got it though. :)
Hehe yeah sorry about that bud.
I need coffee too :> Well actually coffee is pretty nasty - kills the breath and makes me pee loads :>
Drinking some diet coke anyway now so starting to wake up (it's lunchtime ^^). I might wake up by the time I have to go home from work :>

Oli - Illu
 

wittor

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Azathrim said:
And what limits you from running two bots like the SB have to?

nothing, but that wasent the point ?
point is how can you compare something with resists up ..? you can't.
its funny when they come w/o the shit that they cant even put up a fight , they might aswell just sit down infront of me to save me the time. :m00:

ps: illu its not a whine cus you know i'm right and if you don't believe me then proof me otherwise and give me a duel without the 6 red resists and see how it turns out? ;)
also its only 1 relic and fyi I was out yday and today , only guys that gave me good fights was nefastus and nuxto(something) rest dies in 3 or 4 swings quite boring. :eek:
shadehawk if you read these boards ur my new rp cow ty for the 10k that you gave me yday :p
 

Corran

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wittor said:
nothing, but that wasent the point ?
point is how can you compare something with resists up ..? you can't.
its funny when they come w/o the shit that they cant even put up a fight , they might aswell just sit down infront of me to save me the time. :m00:

ps: illu its not a whine cus you know i'm right and if you don't believe me then proof me otherwise and give me a duel without the 6 red resists and see how it turns out? ;)
also its only 1 relic and fyi I was out yday and today , only guys that gave me good fights was nefastus and nuxto(something) rest dies in 3 or 4 swings quite boring. :eek:
shadehawk if you read these boards ur my new rp cow ty for the 10k that you gave me yday :p

nuxtobaun? how the feck you get a good fight with him? All he seems to do is constantly add on anything that moves or is already on less then 60% health else he stays stealthed :p
 

illu

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wittor said:
ps: illu its not a whine cus you know i'm right and if you don't believe me then proof me otherwise and give me a duel without the 6 red resists and see how it turns out? ;)
also its only 1 relic and fyi I was out yday and today , only guys that gave me good fights was nefastus and nuxto(something) rest dies in 3 or 4 swings quite boring. :eek:
shadehawk if you read these boards ur my new rp cow ty for the 10k that you gave me yday :p

If I haven't got the resists up, you know I am more likely to use battler/malice/PH on you yes? I have found the main thing in keeping alive funnily enough is none of those things - the most important thing to stay alive is AF. Run with AF+25% gives close to 700AF which for kobbie stealthers is very nice.
I have been killed very quickly a lot of times simply because I forgot to put the AF charge up.

I think we always have good fights when we run into each other Wittor, but I can only think of about 2 times we have met in the last 4 years ^^. I'm sure you mowed me down a lot in OF when I was a little kobbie at AMG and MMG, but you were always high RR even then I think o_O.
Anyway - log in more and we will have more fights :> And just for you I might drop the resists when I see you.........

Oli - Illu
 

Minstrel

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Corran said:
nuxtobaun? how the feck you get a good fight with him? All he seems to do is constantly add on anything that moves or is already on less then 60% health else he stays stealthed :p

U sir should get a clue. Yes im a hib and defending a mid. :eek7:
 

Minstrel

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illu said:
If I haven't got the resists up, you know I am more likely to use battler/malice/PH on you yes? I have found the main thing in keeping alive funnily enough is none of those things - the most important thing to stay alive is AF. Run with AF+25% gives close to 700AF which for kobbie stealthers is very nice.
I have been killed very quickly a lot of times simply because I forgot to put the AF charge up.

I think we always have good fights when we run into each other Wittor, but I can only think of about 2 times we have met in the last 4 years ^^. I'm sure you mowed me down a lot in OF when I was a little kobbie at AMG and MMG, but you were always high RR even then I think o_O.
Anyway - log in more and we will have more fights :> And just for you I might drop the resists when I see you.........

Oli - Illu

Just out of curiosity where the hell do u go? cause since cluster ive meet u once.
 

Aiteal

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Maybe if they recoded the ability so that it didn't block procs it would be a start
But then that would open the gate to allow immunity periods on poisions.

I feel sorry for SB's facing remedy tbh, heaters at least gave the SB an option of choosing a dmg type that didn't gimp them as much as using slash on hibs does.
But leggys with no procs just aint all that great.
 

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