Woman with opinion taken to court

[Bodhi]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/chelsea-fan-who-branded-liverpool-6797603

I can see how a big firm of lawyers wouldn't like one of their number being caught on camera telling the truth.

 

[soze]

I love that the anti-free speech argument has gone from "Hate preachers shouldn't be allowed to speak because they influence people!" to "There's no point just speaking, it doesn't change anything!"

If that was aimed at me I already conceded that harassment laws cover what I mean rather than needing a free speech law I have already been converted. At this point I am just messing with @Scouse for shits and giggles.

 

[Scouse]

If that was aimed at me

I think it was more for @Talivar who sounded like he was ready to hang himself in the face of big bad government.

However, it occurs to me that that is a serious point. You shouldn't feel that hopeless and helpless when confronting your government. It's there to work for you, not against you, after all. If that's how people feel (and a lot of people do feel that) then there's something very wrong.

 

[Talivar]

I do feel its almost hopeless because the mass of the population seem oblivious to Governments actions, or if they are aware they either agree or do not care. All three options are bad

 

[Scouse]

I do feel its almost hopeless because the mass of the population seem oblivious to Governments actions, or if they are aware they either agree or do not care. All three options are bad

I've said for a long time that you can't have a proper representative democracy without a highly educated population.

It's kinda why I admire the French. They get taught Philosophy at school from a young age. Not that I think philosophy is particularly great (science obviates it according to Stephen "Philosophy is Dead" Hawking - ) - but what it does do is teach people to think with a broader outlook.

As a result the French seem more politically engaged than the oblivious beered up Brits - and they fight more for their rights. Whilst we sit over here moaning about the work shy bastards clogging up the channel and their 35 hour maximum working week they're laughing their asses off with a maximum 35 hour working week and better working conditions...

 

[Talivar]

I would have loved to have done Philosophy at school, closest i got was GCSE Critical Thinking and was an options course with only 3 people on it lol

 

[Bodhi]

I did Moral Philosophy at uni as a first year module - must admit I loved it, and if there were many opportunities out there in Philosophy I would have carried it on to degree level, pragmatism led me to a Business degree instead.

Great subject, and one we would all benefit from - mainly as it teaches you how to think, whilst these days sadly the focus is on more what to think (or brain washing as it's otherwise known).

Putting a decent argument together was key, rather than factual accuracy. For instance I got a 1st in an essay for using a certain quote from The Usual Suspects to prove God didn't exist.

 

[soze]

I think it was more for @TalivarHowever, it occurs to me that that is a serious point. You shouldn't feel that hopeless and helpless when confronting your government. It's there to work for you, not against you, after all. If that's how people feel (and a lot of people do feel that) then there's something very wrong.

This is one of the reasons I have troubles believing in the big brother police state stuff. The riots in London saw the police held back so much that it was dangerous and all because the police were scared of being hung out to dry if they got heavy handed. I will admit at the time I watched that and I really could not understand why the police did not steam roll the little twerps. These were not political protests they were not race riots they were nothing more than public disorder. It would have been so much safer and cost so much less if the Police and got heavy handed on the first night and then the Government came out and backed them.

After thinking about it you realise the dangerous precedence that can set. A real protest for a valid reason could easily get crushed by the Police and could get out of hand just like Egypt. But the fact that the Police are so scared really makes me think that we are nowhere close to being in the police state.

 

[Scouse]

Aside from the fact that police are often very far from holding back against protestors, a police state is much more than what the actual police do - it's a whole range of things.

Freedom from oppression is one of the bars and that very much includes oppression in the mind rather than physical oppression...

 

[DaGaffer]

Isn't Wij a philosophy grad? Which boggles the mind I know...

 

[Talivar]

A small part of me hoped the Tax Credit cuts would go ahead as that might finally wake up the masses and get some form of a reaction.

 

[Trem]

A small part of me hoped the Tax Credit cuts would go ahead as that might finally wake up the masses and get some form of a reaction.

I'm confused as to if it will or will not. I don't think it is over yet. I am still sick that they didn't bring the benefit cap for the number of kids in this year rather than in 2017. Gives the cunts more time to pop out some more of gods little miracles *Hicks*

 

[Bodhi]

To be honest I don't think the biggest threat to free speech is anything to do with the Government - it's Social Media. Whilst it has done many great things, it has also brought out the worst in many people - it would appear people still love a good witch hunt, and Facebatter gives them an ideal opportunity for a bit of mob justice. Sometimes this can be a force for good (Cecil the Lion, erm, I'm sure there are others), but more than often, innocuous comments get blown up out of all proportion and lives get ruined, just because the baying mob didn't agree.

For examples see the Chelsea Lawyer above, the scientist who landed the probe on Rosetta and the shocking treatment of Nobel prize winning Sir Tim Hunt.

 

[DaGaffer]

To be honest I don't think the biggest threat to free speech is anything to do with the Government - it's Social Media. Whilst it has done many great things, it has also brought out the worst in many people - it would appear people still love a good witch hunt, and Facebatter gives them an ideal opportunity for a bit of mob justice. Sometimes this can be a force for good (Cecil the Lion, erm, I'm sure there are others), but more than often, innocuous comments get blown up out of all proportion and lives get ruined, just because the baying mob didn't agree.

For examples see the Chelsea Lawyer above, the scientist who landed the probe on Rosetta and the shocking treatment of Nobel prize winning Sir Tim Hunt.

Problem is Sturgeon's Law applies to people as well, and when they have an internet connection and a means to talk en masse, its never going to end well.

 

[Raven]

The biggest threat to free speech is liberals. They absolutely hate anyone who does not agree with them and will do absolutely everything to silence them.

 

[Scouse]

The biggest threat to free speech is liberals.

I think your knowledge of what a liberal actually is has been coloured somewhat by the right wing press.

Anyway @Talivar :

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/jan/25/david-kelly-suicide-hutton-inquiry

If it really was suicide - which seemed improbable at the time but with the pressure he was facing a possibility - then why classify the report?

Smells like another cover up to me

= Police state.

 

[Raven]

I think your knowledge of what a liberal actually is has been coloured somewhat by the right wing press.

That is the factual definition yes but I am yet to meet a self proclaimed liberal that won't attempt to silence those with a differing opinion.

 

[Scouse]

That is the factual definition yes but I am yet to meet a self proclaimed liberal that won't attempt to silence those with a differing opinion.

How many "self proclaimed liberals" have you actually met? I mean, people who actually claim "I'm a liberal". I've never met a single one myself. Because people don't do that sort of thing...

Anyway.

I think the ECHR has got this wrong. So what if it's an ideology?

 

[DaGaffer]

The biggest threat to free speech is liberals. They absolutely hate anyone who does not agree with them and will do absolutely everything to silence them.

How many "self proclaimed liberals" have you actually met? I mean, people who actually claim "I'm a liberal". I've never met a single one myself. Because people don't do that sort of thing...

Anyway.

I think the ECHR has got this wrong. So what if it's an ideology?

I think I'd broadly describe myself as "liberal". I don't think I ever want to silence anyone. Quite the reverse actually; I hate it when people don't (or won't) say what they think.

 

[Scouse]

I think I'd broadly describe myself as "liberal". I don't think I ever want to silence anyone. Quite the reverse actually; I hate it when people don't (or won't) say what they think.

Ditto.

But I wasn't going to "self proclaim" - and I don't think I've ever had to.

 

[Talivar]

I have always wanted a fair society for everyone with true equality

 

[old.Osy]

I have always wanted a fair society for everyone with true equality

Spot the commie.

 

[Scouse]

Spot the commie.

Equality of opportunity is in the US constitution.

 

[DaGaffer]

I have always wanted a fair society for everyone with true equality

Oh I don't want equality. I want all the things and you lot can go to Hell. But I have no problem with you moaning about it.

 

[Talivar]

Well my flaw lay in the fact i want people punished if they take actions to ruin equality, this causes a contradiction as its not totally equal if im deciding who deserves to be punished lol

 

[Talivar]

Do you reckon they will pass this bill now?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...ter-guardian-column_n_8523350.html?1447177566

 

[Hawkwind]

Do you reckon they will pass this bill now?
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...ter-guardian-column_n_8523350.html?1447177566

Think he got that spot on.

 

[Talivar]

Yep and the sad thing is, by time we get to the next election they will have changed enough rules/laws/policies and procedures that it will be almost impossible for them to be lose in the elections. Wonder how many people are slowly starting to regret voting for them. Once this charter is in place i cant imagine it will be long before they fully clamp down on internet piracy as well as they will be able to see what sites people are accessing?

 

[Bodhi]

Yep and the sad thing is, by time we get to the next election they will have changed enough rules/laws/policies and procedures that it will be almost impossible for them to be lose in the elections. Wonder how many people are slowly starting to regret voting for them. Once this charter is in place i cant imagine it will be long before they fully clamp down on internet piracy as well as they will be able to see what sites people are accessing?

I'm not regretting voting for them if that helps?

 

[Talivar]

You already have a comfortable living then at a guess