Why isn't BD's overpowered?

[opoc]

Originally posted by thorungla
Ooo teach me teach me how. Firstly, LT is capped on a target with no resists (and we all know how high the resists in alb / hib usually are) at a little over 350 every 4 seconds and base nukes probably do approx the same damage with recast time of 2.5secs.

I just dont see how to get anywhere near 2k damage in 5 seconds like you claim. Please help us all to be uber like you claim, or stop making up stories its tiresome and doesnt make you big or clever

You been hanging in emain too much with rvr guilds with all capped resists and resist buffs



Try a all random group which is most rvr for hibs which dont go to emain and possibly not all 50....which is more comman

When one bd nuked my hero with baseline for 520 something and then lifetap for 540 something and then one lifetap more and i was dead.... when he wiped our group of 6 (4 50s but no cc) think it was me (hero) one shade one druid one chanter one eld and one bm.

And stories, I think not and im not trying to be clever or anything i just say what happened

 

[Tasans]

Originally posted by opoc
When one bd nuked my hero with baseline for 520 something and then lifetap for 540 something and then one lifetap more and i was dead.... when he wiped our group of 6 (4 50s but no cc) think it was me (hero) one shade one druid one chanter one eld and one bm.

And stories, I think not and im not trying to be clever or anything i just say what happened

Okey. Get some skills maybe?

 

[thorungla]

Originally posted by opoc
You been hanging in emain too much with rvr guilds with all capped resists and resist buffs

Try a all random group which is most rvr for hibs which dont go to emain and possibly not all 50....which is more comman

When one bd nuked my hero with baseline for 520 something and then lifetap for 540 something and then one lifetap more and i was dead.... when he wiped our group of 6 (4 50s but no cc) think it was me (hero) one shade one druid one chanter one eld and one bm.

And stories, I think not and im not trying to be clever or anything i just say what happened

Actually I prefer to rvr in Odin's or Hadrians as I am very rarely in an uber optimised guild group. Random groups of less than 8 and often missing a healer are my staple rvr.

You clearly forgot to read the cap damage for LT's I mentioned, so your being hit for 550 must have been the very rare and very lucky maximum crit as well. These can never be included in any nerf post since every class can get them.

I dont really want to imagine the 1000 things a group of 6! A hero (+moosemode), nightshade, druid (+pet), chanter (+pet), eldritch and BM could possibly do under any circumstances to be beaten by one BD apart from all being afk for 10 mins.

Lets look at some numbers instead. How many total hits do you think this group would have? 8000 maybe assuming the druid didnt ever heal, I dont know I'll let others correct that. Just did some testing and a full bar of pow will let me cast 20 LT's, obviously less if I use inefficient base DD's so in the interest of seeing the maximum dmg I can do lets assume I only LT (and ofc assume that your group failed at any time to deal out 1000 dmg to kill the BD'er in the space of 4 secs, or your 2 classes that have baseline stun, no CC you say hmmm, forgot to use it, a miracle I say) I've already said the cap dmg for LT is 350ish, lets ignore the poss crits (on avg would be an extra 2 times 175) and lets ignore spell resists (on avg would be a lost 1 in 6 LT's so a little over 3 times 350) ah bugger it I'll take these into account.

Full bar of POW - 20 LT's = 7000 + 175 + 175 -350 - 350 - 350 = 6300 max damage output with full bar of pow.

Guess this is why I can never solo grps. Maybe my BD'er is just gimped somehow with its full MP armour SC'd to max all stats and resists and 6 times ablative armours.

I sure am getting tired or repeating all this stuff, hopefully soon BD'ers will be nerfed and I can stop

 

[majingas]

BD's werer extensivly tested before SI much more than any of the other SI classes different combinations of lifetap and pets were tryed.

Thay 'nerfed' BD's when thay reduced the max levle for the pets so you can cry all you want its higly unlikly BD life taps will be nerfed especially when you consider that on all the US boards BD's are considerd a nerfed RvR class allready.

 

[oldtimer]

>Only because they are selfbuffbotted.

>1on1 they are very good.

So the solution would be to do something about their selfbuff ability then to get thier damage output down to a more reasonable level?

 

[kherny]

The absolute BS i read from non bonedancers is astonishing.

I cant believe some people are so stupid, and to be honest cant be bothered even replying to most of it as its just a rehash of total BS from other threads.

Oh but if theres an award for King of BS in this particular thread it has to go to Opoc , congratulations....truly truly above the call of the title you have been now awarded.

/em waits for next whine thread.

Its a shame theres no insta 50 chars because id love to get all you non BDs to play one and Id pick 5 classes and solo your whiney asses with each of them.

/em calms down and remembers they must just be trolling because people cant be that stupid, then thinks of opocs post again and counts to 10.....

1...2...3.... .. . .. .

 

[Aoln]

Last night in emain me (rr6 50 scout) and paladin (rr6 lvl50) were at emain amg. Along came a lvl50 BD (rr1) the paladin was hiding behind the corner waiting untill the BD came close enough to get a hit w/o it running away. I was on the Battlements quite a distance away, shot it with my crit, it hit its BT (why does it even have it) got next to shots in, about 400 dmg, and 580dmg including crit, it DD'd me (whats range on that anyway, seemed atleast 1500?) about twice before the paladin came out and slammed it and i shot it somemore, 2 more shots in while slammed its now at 10% hp. 10% hp We've done about 3000hp to it... stun wears off it starts DDing loads, 350-400 a pop (40% body resist) interupting my shots so i cant fire, i run down steps to melee as i cant do anything else (have to IP) slam both its healer pets, start meleeing it for ~200 a swing, continues to DD me while the paladins working away on it as it just runs in circles, few seconds later im dead, then another few seconds so is the paladin.

So how does a rr1 BD kill 2 RR6 ? what did we do wrong and HTF isnt that overpowered .. ? uke:

 

[old.Spug]

first off, would you aim for a necro? or a necro's pet? you wouldnt go for the necro, because he's invunerable, so why did you shoot the bd when he had healers? surely your crit shot would have dropped the commander, or even enabled your second shot to drop him... then bd has no pets... easy peasy...

try using tactics

 

[tindel]

strong whine!

 

[old.Iunliten]

Originally posted by oldtimer
>Only because they are selfbuffbotted.

>1on1 they are very good.

So the solution would be to do something about their selfbuff ability then to get thier damage output down to a more reasonable level?

In a group everyone is buffed so it ain't a problem.

They suffer from the same effect as bonedancers, godlike 1on1 but only good when in a full group. Bonedancers because they are fucked when their pets mezzed and then slammed by 2 RP hungry heroes.

And the only buff a friar gets from joining a group is str/con (which the str part of is useless) while most other classes gain at least 5 buffs, str, str/con, dex, dex/qui, con, af, amongst others.

Stop now the stupid moaning about classes like BD and friars.

btw for your information my main is a mentalist before you think I am taking mid/alb side

Tindel have you learned nothing?
Stl0ng Wh1n3!!!! Otherwise they won't understand

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by opoc
Bonedancers can do 2k dmg pretty easily in the time it takes to cast two baseline spells just about

Is the other type of skill maybe "lack of"

Oh and its no B/S that BDs can take out groups if bd have advantage of coming up suprise on group and rooting healers and stuff and then running out of heal range to kill tanks and stuff

Ok others have covered the ridiculous damage claim (and non 50's v 50 arent really the basis for comparions) but I'm more amused by the Full group tactics.

Your saying the BD sprints up - stops to cast root having spotted a healer casts again on the other healer (since he only has a non insta single target root) then runs to kill the tanks with life drain?

How - are they all afk or what???

They dont have any casters in the group then? Nobody thinks of killing the healers or even just hurting em so they start healing emselves?

No meleers attack the bd who stops to cast root and interrupt him - no tanks use stun styleson bd???

On this kinda basis I can solo the dragon with an aug shammie (level 5)

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by Ethild
Indeed you are correct, I have not played a BD.

Surely your resists only really apply to PvE. In RvR there are no level based 'to hit' modifiers, only the resist stat themselves (Or something along these lines). Obviously these affect the amount of damage done by the tap, but the tap itself will normally hit (Lo indefinate caster interupt until death). I dont care what you do in PvE, you could have a 'jump me to lvl 50 now button' and I wouldnt be bothered, RvR is where the problem arrises.

Nah - there is a level of spell component in the total resist formula - it also takes into account level of caster n target - was in one of those grab bag thingies a while ago.

 

[Xeanor]

Originally posted by mavericky

A friar can't win a duel vs. a bonedancer.

or an Enchanter.

 

[dorfs]

:bore:

 

[thorungla]

Originally posted by Aoln
Last night in emain me (rr6 50 scout) and paladin (rr6 lvl50) were at emain amg. Along came a lvl50 BD (rr1) the paladin was hiding behind the corner waiting untill the BD came close enough to get a hit w/o it running away. I was on the Battlements quite a distance away, shot it with my crit, it hit its BT (why does it even have it) got next to shots in, about 400 dmg, and 580dmg including crit, it DD'd me (whats range on that anyway, seemed atleast 1500?) about twice before the paladin came out and slammed it and i shot it somemore, 2 more shots in while slammed its now at 10% hp. 10% hp We've done about 3000hp to it... stun wears off it starts DDing loads, 350-400 a pop (40% body resist) interupting my shots so i cant fire, i run down steps to melee as i cant do anything else (have to IP) slam both its healer pets, start meleeing it for ~200 a swing, continues to DD me while the paladins working away on it as it just runs in circles, few seconds later im dead, then another few seconds so is the paladin.

So how does a rr1 BD kill 2 RR6 ? what did we do wrong and HTF isnt that overpowered .. ? uke:

I'll just mention 1 apparant rather old school error here. You used the traditional open with a crit shot and follow up with normal shots? Havent all archers learnt to use a normal shot to break BT and then follow up with crits (for targets without PBT at least)? Especially scouts who have access to the slowest bows (tho i think rangers do as well now)

Or perhaps you only carry a fast bow so you can take advantage of the absolutely lovely skill of slam followed by 2 crit arrows. A sort of off topic whine but it feels like scouts always land slam on me and use this technique and yet my warrior seems to often miss landing slam.

 

[Qte Eth]

cant agree with all saying BD is an ok class
u shouldnt require _any_ skill to kill 1 enemy with 6 ( like 4 50 and some blues)
ive heard BD in bg killed a whole fg of enemys -wtf?~~
or tell me any other class that can b any close to bd at killing >2 enemy wo any problem?

 

[brite]

Im pretty new to this game, but most of the people whineing dont seem to have a clue, yes we are top 1 on 1 but what do we have to offer to a group ? dmg absorb ? and a little damage output ? once our pets are mezzed we dont stand much of a chance of surviving with a couple of bolts and we are down. Infact a couple of bolts when and pets are up and we are down anyway.

seems to me that the people moaning dont really understand the class or how to beat them i could go on listing our weaknesses but i aint gonna do that beacuse i dont really want you to know how to kill me, you should play the game and figure it out for yourself instead of if you cant beat it.... get it nerfed

 

[ImLestat]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
cant agree with all saying BD is an ok class
u shouldnt require _any_ skill to kill 1 enemy with 6 ( like 4 50 and some blues)
ive heard BD in bg killed a whole fg of enemys -wtf?~~
or tell me any other class that can b any close to bd at killing >2 enemy wo any problem?

First off, you really don't need any skill to kill a BD when you are 6 people, it's just that those 6 can't be afk when they try...

And how many times haven't it been said that at bg level BD's are indeed quite overpowered, but in the end game RvR (L50) that has all of a sudden changed? Don't bring up bg uberness as a reason to have a class nerfed, because then they might be nerfed for all the wrong reasons. There could be a world of difference between bg level and L50 RvR.

 

[Aoln]

Originally posted by thorungla
I'll just mention 1 apparant rather old school error here. You used the traditional open with a crit shot and follow up with normal shots? Havent all archers learnt to use a normal shot to break BT and then follow up with crits (for targets without PBT at least)? Especially scouts who have access to the slowest bows (tho i think rangers do as well now)

Or perhaps you only carry a fast bow so you can take advantage of the absolutely lovely skill of slam followed by 2 crit arrows. A sort of off topic whine but it feels like scouts always land slam on me and use this technique and yet my warrior seems to often miss landing slam.

surely u should know that a crit doesnt work on a moving target ? using a second 1 would of just resulted in a normal shot taking longer ..

and shooting the pet commander never works as it seems to have loads of hp, pet warps around so cant land a crit and it has healing too :sleeping:

 

[Aoln]

Originally posted by thorungla

Or perhaps you only carry a fast bow so you can take advantage of the absolutely lovely skill of slam followed by 2 crit arrows. A sort of off topic whine but it feels like scouts always land slam on me and use this technique and yet my warrior seems to often miss landing slam.

Scouts generally have massive amount of dex (i have 230 unbuffed) which gives u a higher chance to land it afaik.

 

[thorungla]

Good point about the dex and slam.

As for not landing crits arrows, cant say I particualrly have alot of trouble but a hunters crit is like a scouts normal, and in addition since you have the element of suprise how about not shooting at people when they at full running speed, wait till they stop or leave them alone. If you choose not to make the most of your own skills dont whine that you cant kill someone else. Given the potential damage a scout can do, I can very easily say that you should if you choose the right time and an appropriate range 1-2 shot a BD'er dead before he can respond.

Anyways its 3.30 am, I've had a cracking day and night out and I'm being called away. Laters

 

[oldtimer]

>So how does a rr1 BD kill 2 RR6

We can ask GOA to demote you to a realm rank that is appropriate for your tactical skill if you want. I am sure GOA would do it if enough of us supported your request.

 

[Xeanor]

BDs are just _overpowered_.

Remove the insta lifedrain and put in some other castable spell.

 

[ImLestat]

Originally posted by Xeanor
BDs are just _overpowered_.

Remove the insta lifedrain and put in some other castable spell.

Sorcerers are just _overpowered_.
Remove the mez spells and put in some other spells.

Both statements are just as silly, as both are a major part of their specline...

 

[Xeanor]

Originally posted by old.ImLestat
Sorcerers are just _overpowered_.
Remove the mez spells and put in some other spells.

Both statements are just as silly, as both are a major part of their specline...

Sorcerers aren't overpowered.

Nowhere near it.

You, as a mid, have actually not a single right to whine about any "overpowered" CC as you got the best of the best CC.

BD is just the next FOTM class of mid, first everyone made a runemaster, then everyone made a shadowblade, then everyone made a spiritmaster, then everyone made a berserker, and now everyone makes a bonedancer. And so far bonedancer is the best of those classes they've ever made, and will be nerfed too.

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Sorcs are overpowered, mezz range of silly, One sorc and pet soloed a fg , and the pet was still alive at end...

Man nerf them now!!
Just tooo powerful

Nerf!! nerf!! nerf!!



<runs away giggling>

 

[ImLestat]

Rofl, silly guy, read the last sentence I wrote. I'll quote myself since you obviously can't read:

Both statements are just as silly, as both are a major part of their specline...

That means that you saying that removing lifedrain is just as silly as removing mez from a sorcerers specline. How do you call that a whine on my part? Well as I said, silly guy.

And also, read up on what has been said previously in the thread next time you post. The most important point is that BD's are very powerful 1 on 1, but since when did Daoc become a 1 on 1 game? No, it's a TEAM game, meaning you are supposed to group together. Now head back to the start of the thread and read up before you post more silly things.

 

[Xeanor]

Originally posted by old.ImLestat
Rofl, silly guy, read the last sentence I wrote. I'll quote myself since you obviously can't read:



That means that you saying that removing lifedrain is just as silly as removing mez from a sorcerers specline. How do you call that a whine on my part? Well as I said, silly guy.

And also, read up on what has been said previously in the thread next time you post. The most important point is that BD's are very powerful 1 on 1, but since when did Daoc become a 1 on 1 game? No, it's a TEAM game, meaning you are supposed to group together. Now head back to the start of the thread and read up before you post more silly things.

Hell yeah, removing the lifedrain would be silly, but the same goes for a lot of overpowered classes, like a DF infil or a Enchanter's Heat debuff, they're not _really_ supposed to be there though, but removing them would be silly.

And DAoC is a TEAM game yes, but 8 bonedancers will kill 8 other players anyday.

And if you can't say anything better than personal attacks that i'm "silly" then you can just stop arguing now and shut the fuck up.

Bonedancer needs a huge nerf. Period.

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Originally posted by Xeanor
Hell yeah, removing the lifedrain would be silly, but the same goes for a lot of overpowered classes, like a DF infil or a Enchanter's Heat debuff, they're not _really_ supposed to be there though, but removing them would be silly.

And DAoC is a TEAM game yes, but 8 bonedancers will kill 8 other players anyday.

And if you can't say anything better than personal attacks that i'm "silly" then you can just stop arguing now and shut the fuck up.

Bonedancer needs a huge nerf. Period.

8 bonedancers could not beat a team of 8 hibs if a balanced group...heck an alb group prolly would have no trouble too.

Are you insane??

the 8 BDs have no CC other than root and with a few AE mezzes and stuns it would all be over... throw in the group magic resist and some disease throwers and they might not even take a causalty...

Mezz/Stun/Disease = BDs bane...

Going by your realm mate Sadons ideas of RvR all enemy go around with 50% magic resists so the BDs tap will only be doing and healing around 150ish damage/heal every 4 seconds.. even a Skald can out damage that

 

[old.Spug]

You, as a mid, have actually not a single right to whine about any "overpowered" CC as you got the best of the best CC.

oh look, another person who's full of shit, quite happy to whine about a mid class, yet when you turn the tables says you have no right to whine...

kindly get a clue sir...

read the whole post, and stop going on hear-say... one bd cannot solo 6 others, unless the six are afk... and you claim midgard has the uber cc... well, AE stun is indeed good, yes, a whole 10 seconds of AE stun (if you get the cast off, if its not resisted...) personally the majority of my CC in rvr either doesnt stick, or is purged... yet as a healer, thats sposed to be my big bonus in rvr...

but this isnt a cc arguement, this is in fact a bonedancer discussion, and it would appear that just because some low skilled people cant take down a BD, the class should be nerfed...

as a healer I can't take sorcerers... perhaps they should also be nerfed.