Why isn't BD's overpowered?

[korax_]

Just wondering as I hear that some claim that they aren't.
And the best place to find an answer must be here on the mid boards.



Also I know that it might be fun playing an overpowered, but for the balance of this game you agree that BD's should have been nerfed ages ago... right?



PS. Thanks for beeing out there as my beloved enemies

 

[thorungla]

I guess ya just got killed by one. Difficult to make any comments with so few facts, in fact no information whatsoever from you.

All I can say is that 100% BD's are overpowered at the lower BG levels. However when I rvr with or duel with mine now at level 50, the only classes I can reliably beat are tanks. In real rvr this can also depend on whether they have IP ready or I have raging power active. Assasins have killed me, archers have killed me, casters have killed me. Sure I have killed assasin that didnt land there crit, or archers that didnt use maximum range and the use of terrain for cover and infact didnt even use crit shot, amazing how many dont anymore. Anyway just some info from someone that has played one at 50 but doesnt focus all their time on it since it just another class along with all the rest that has its strengths and weaknesses.

I'm sure the whiners will win the day and indeed BD's will get nerfed, after all what mid class doesnt get nerfed. However nobody has yet to post test evidence to prove their uberness and I'm yet to experience my BD'er being signifigantly stronger than any of my other classes in endgame rvr. Which is why I play them all

 

[old.Iunliten]

1on1 they are

to bad it is a team game.

 

[pudzy]

Originally posted by old.Iunliten
1on1 they are

to bad it is a team game.

Exactly.

Your char selection screen is pure evil Thor

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

BDs are hard to kill one on One(+pets)
But so is say a Minstrell if you are solo and he has an equal conn pet..

But lets face it BDs are no where near as hard as it is to kill say Pbuck

Healers cant solo Heros does not mean Heros are unkillable..

any class with stun can kill BDs fairly easy if has AE mezz then very easy

It is all down to tactics, if you see a pet class for example a Sorc with a yellow pet do you stand and fight the pet then the sorc? No you ignore the pet and kill the Sorc.. IE use your brain and work around the fact you are 1 vs 2(in effect)

It is only Suppression Spec BDs that are tough any other spec are not bad at all...

Now an Air Theurg would have no problem dealing with a BD of anytype... being the Only class/spec that can chain stun still with any regularity (SM pet can chain stun but is rare)

I suppose depends who gets the jump on who, but that is true of most classes...

BD's are not Invincible but are nasty one on one, yes they are casters that can survive melee but then Albion has 2 "healer" classes that can either Melee or Nuke and Hib have the utilly bot bards and cloth wearing tank Valewalker.

Would be dull is all realms had same classes. Hopefully when Mythic have finished thier "balancing" the forgotten about classes might get some love..

 

[rynnor]

If BD's had some form of CC they would be overpowered but as it stands there are classes that can kill em easy and classes they can kill easily - kinda like most other classes.

The pets are nice but low level and never resist an aoe mez/stun etc.

The life drains are nice but disease has a nasty effect on it - they have caster hp so any classes that can do a lot of damage fast dont really have to worry about the pets healing em - its just your basic warrior types that are in trouble.

Plus they really arent overpowered in a group since they dont add much compared to pbae or pbt for instance.

Where are these 1on1 encounters in RvR anyway??? (outside of silly illegal duelling)

 

[mordia]

Originally posted by Kerram Darktyde
Healers cant solo Heros does not mean Heros are unkillable..

Such lies!

 

[mid_Efour]

i bet aug healer could

 

[old.Elrond]

I bet aug healers are gimps

Saying that, if we had unlimited respecs I'd go aug 90% of the time as even tho you are group gimped, it sounds like a laugh, then just respec to mend/pac eg for pve raids or keep defense.

 

[civy]

Originally posted by rynnor

The pets are nice but low level and never resist an aoe mez/stun etc.

 

[Ethild]

All that needs doing in my opinion is making the lifetap a cast spell rather than an instant, even if its a small cast time (2 secs would be fine). May even want to up the damage a bit to compensate for the extra delay inbetween casts (4sec timer + 2sec cast).

This would mean that the lifetap can be interupted like most other casters spells. At the moment as a wizard, I have no chance of beating a BD that has an IQ of more than 10. Sure I might get a bolt off, but that probably wont kill him, then all he has to do is run at me and hold down life tap, getting his health back AND preventing me from casting again.. GG. If the life tap was interuptable it would be like a normal caster vs caster fight, typically the person getting the 1st cast off wins (Although obviously with your own personal healing squad it may still turn out differently).

This would also stop them pressing their sprint key and chasing anything and everything whilst spamming life tap, as they would have to stop to cast it. Currently if you are within the 1500 life tap range, then its over. You cant sprint away if you are in trouble.

 

[inqy]

Zerks/SBs sorted.

BD will be nerfed. Lets just hope it isn't over the top.

Savage next ? Then what, oooh maybe remove healer insta stuff too. Anything else?

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

For those that don't play this class:

You make the lifetap castable and not insta you completely destroy the playstyle of a sup bonedancer.

The entire way a sup bonedancer plays hinges on this and is the main spell that differentiates it from being just another generic caster with a lifetap. A sup bonedancer has VERY weak pets offensively - the whole playstyle depends on the caster being able to tank and since he has no spec weapon the only way to apply damage any time in the same century is to have an insta. Sup bonedancer is also the only bonedancer spec with no ranged damage on the pets at all.

Every time I hear people saying make the lifetap castable it tells me they haven't played the class to any reasonable level and simply don't understand how the class plays.

Another thing that people conveniently ignore is the fact that the lifetap is resisted a helluva lot. Its the most resisted spell I've ever used in the whole time I've played DAoC bar none.

*Possibly* they might need something doing.

Making the lifetap castable absolutely isn't it.

 

[Ethild]

Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn
Every time I hear people saying make the lifetap castable it tells me they haven't played the class to any reasonable level and simply don't understand how the class plays.

Another thing that people conveniently ignore is the fact that the lifetap is resisted a helluva lot. Its the most resisted spell I've ever used in the whole time I've played DAoC bar none.

Indeed you are correct, I have not played a BD.

Surely your resists only really apply to PvE. In RvR there are no level based 'to hit' modifiers, only the resist stat themselves (Or something along these lines). Obviously these affect the amount of damage done by the tap, but the tap itself will normally hit (Lo indefinate caster interupt until death). I dont care what you do in PvE, you could have a 'jump me to lvl 50 now button' and I wouldnt be bothered, RvR is where the problem arrises.

 

[mavericky]

Originally posted by Ethild

This would mean that the lifetap can be interupted like most other casters spells. At the moment as a wizard, I have no chance of beating a BD that has an IQ of more than 10. Sure I might get a bolt off, but that probably wont kill him, then all he has to do is run at me and hold down life tap, getting his health back AND preventing me from casting again.. GG. If the life tap was interuptable it would be like a normal caster vs caster fight, typically the person getting the 1st cast off wins (Although obviously with your own personal healing squad it may still turn out differently).

.

With the next patch you will be one of the most successful classes at killing a bonedancer, 2.5 sec cast time on bolts and higher damage from them will mean they will drop before the healer wakes up.

 

[Ethild]

Originally posted by mavericky
With the next patch you will be one of the most successful classes at killing a bonedancer, 2.5 sec cast time on bolts and higher damage from them will mean they will drop before the healer wakes up.

Yes but that has effected all realms so it works both ways. ALL bolts from ALL realms casters that can cast bolts have been dropped to 2.5 sec, and had the damage increased from the 50% modifier. We will be on the receiving end just as much as the offensive.

 

[mavericky]

Originally posted by Ethild
Yes but that has effected all realms so it works both ways. ALL bolts from ALL realms casters that can cast bolts have been dropped to 2.5 sec, and had the damage increased from the 50% modifier. We will be on the receiving end just as much as the offensive.

I was answering to your point about you being unable to kill bonedancers, saying that this wouldnt be the case for long. Where did runemasters enter into this?

 

[Ethild]

Originally posted by mavericky
I was answering to your point about you being unable to kill bonedancers, saying that this wouldnt be the case for long. Where did runemasters enter into this?

And I was just answering yours.

However while we are here, its an example of equality. Bolt casters will be getting back exactly what they can put out. This seems not the case for the bone dancer, the whole point of this thread .

 

[mavericky]

Originally posted by Ethild
And I was just answering yours.

However while we are here, its an example of equality. Bolt casters will be getting back exactly what they can put out. This seems not the case for the bone dancer, the whole point of this thread .

Part of the point of this game is that no all three realms are the same. Midgard has AOE stun and bonedancers etc. Albion has Heal over time spellss, abalative chants, mezz reduction buffs, SoS, BoF etc. Hib has chanters, group purge, PBT on a tank class, BaoD etc.

Every realm has a certain uniqueness just because you havent got a tanking caster doesnt make your realm underpowered, or that class overpowered. Bonedancers are good 1v1 (although you as a bolter should take them out easily) but the game is Realm versus Realm and they arent the best group players as they dont have the best damage output or any group friendly abilites

 

[oldtimer]

>Just wondering as I hear that some claim that they aren't.

Erm, ever been on the recieving end of a friar's staff? Now there is an overpowered class if any. The BD is a walk in the park compared to them.

 

[tindel]

actually, I have to agree, friars hurt

 

[Nonnier]

Originally posted by Ethild
Indeed you are correct, I have not played a BD.

Surely your resists only really apply to PvE. In RvR there are no level based 'to hit' modifiers, only the resist stat themselves (Or something along these lines). Obviously these affect the amount of damage done by the tap, but the tap itself will normally hit (Lo indefinate caster interupt until death). I dont care what you do in PvE, you could have a 'jump me to lvl 50 now button' and I wouldnt be bothered, RvR is where the problem arrises.

the insta is also the only really effective spell in rvr, seeing as a cave spec shaman can DoT alot better then a bonedancer.

make the insta castable you will have to give supp a new spell

 

[old.Iunliten]

Originally posted by oldtimer
>Just wondering as I hear that some claim that they aren't.

Erm, ever been on the recieving end of a friar's staff? Now there is an overpowered class if any. The BD is a walk in the park compared to them.

Only because they are selfbuffbotted.

1on1 they are very good.

they are only decent in groups not godlike.

Only overpowered classes atm is savages and chanters (and zerkers).

Chanters will be fixed as soon as the move baseline DD to energy and fix resists debuffs togheter with resists buffs.

Savages just have to good offence/defence. Move down the evade a tiny bit to around 40% after highest evade buff and drop the parry buff.
And loose interupt ability on their insta taunt.

 

[Xeanor]

bonedancers

just destroy the entire class before it destroys this game

just like they did with necros

 

[mavericky]

Originally posted by Xeanor
Friars

just destroy the entire class before it destroys this game

just like they did with necros

 

[Goryk]

The problem I have with bonedancers is the lack of skill it takes to play one. Any idiot could pick up a bd and comprehensively beat the majority of the classes out there. In my opinion, I've always thought minstrels were a little overpowered in the right hands, but it takes a lot of skill to play one well.

If you run into a bd one vs one without any stun/ae CC you might as well just start typing release. I've won only one 1vs1 vs a bonedancer with my necro and that relied on my pet resisting his last tap, me getting no resists, and the bd actually trying to melee my pet so I was able to cast my tiny ranged insta tap without my pet running away. I wouldn't have won that fight if the BD had had any sense. I see people claiming that bd's aren't overpowered as it just takes coordination to kill, and that makes me laugh. Stating that they aren't overpowered because they can be killed by more than one person is just stupid. Every class should have a chacne vs every toher class, even if it is just a chance to escape rather than kill the opponent. with a BD there is nothing you can do. You may have a chance vs a poor opponent, but a good opponent will wipe the floor with you every time... If they just made them a little harder to play I don't think people would mind but being killed by every Joe Newbie with a 50 (or less) bd is stupid.

The same applies to necros too ofcourse. Once your pet is engaged in melee, its a case of instahlifetap4tehwin, and it takes no skill whatsoever. Just comes down to whether the enemy resists much, but at least you have a choice of tactics (qc af debuff or an extra nuke?), and the huge amount of bugs which prevent them from being them from being killing machines like bd's. Saying that I'm sure there are plenty of tanks who've tried to take on my pet and been utterly frustrated that I can win by spamming one button repeatedly :/

 

[Nonnier]

Originally posted by Goryk
The problem I have with bonedancers is the lack of skill it takes to play one. Any idiot could pick up a bd and comprehensively beat the majority of the classes out there. In my opinion, I've always thought minstrels were a little overpowered in the right hands, but it takes a lot of skill to play one well.

If you run into a bd one vs one without any stun/ae CC you might as well just start typing release. I've won only one 1vs1 vs a bonedancer with my necro and that relied on my pet resisting his last tap, me getting no resists, and the bd actually trying to melee my pet so I was able to cast my tiny ranged insta tap without my pet running away. I wouldn't have won that fight if the BD had had any sense. I see people claiming that bd's aren't overpowered as it just takes coordination to kill, and that makes me laugh. Stating that they aren't overpowered because they can be killed by more than one person is just stupid. Every class should have a chacne vs every toher class, even if it is just a chance to escape rather than kill the opponent. with a BD there is nothing you can do. You may have a chance vs a poor opponent, but a good opponent will wipe the floor with you every time... If they just made them a little harder to play I don't think people would mind but being killed by every Joe Newbie with a 50 (or less) bd is stupid.

The same applies to necros too ofcourse. Once your pet is engaged in melee, its a case of instahlifetap4tehwin, and it takes no skill whatsoever. Just comes down to whether the enemy resists much, but at least you have a choice of tactics (qc af debuff or an extra nuke?), and the huge amount of bugs which prevent them from being them from being killing machines like bd's. Saying that I'm sure there are plenty of tanks who've tried to take on my pet and been utterly frustrated that I can win by spamming one button repeatedly :/

the BD requires as much skill as any other class, its just a diiferent skill that is required.

ok, so BDs can kick the backside of any class solo, except a bolt caster after patch and any good infils (those who B/S about how a BD can solo a grp don't count) but thats all a BD can do. In a grp he is forced to use baseline + insta, which drains mana.

the main skill of a boney is the ability to make best use of his rather limited spell list. A boney just charging in with insta and 3 healer pets can be killed by any1 with more brains then a dead rat (so about 50% of the alb popuation )

any good boney will make best of his strengths and of his weaknesses, which the main weakness of the bonedancer is the huge amount of mana and the high body resists that the insta uses, and make best use of his strengths, which is the healer pets and the ability to run and cast at the same time (if ur supp spec) or AE DoTing if ya BA.

People with the brain power of a squashed ear-wig will see that the main str of the supp boney is the fact that he can heal himself without the aid of spells (in the form of his pets), so the logical solution is too get rid of the pets, without pets....a boney is as dead as a vampire in a garlic factory. He then has to rely on his body based instant life drain, which as body resist is easy to get hold of, gets resisted a fair bit, to keep him alive.

boom! any1 that can deal more then 200 dmg (so polearms/LW and pure casters) can kill the bonedancer easy.

there, i really hate to tell people how to kill boneys, but sometimes it needed

 

[opoc]

Bonedancers can do 2k dmg pretty easily in the time it takes to cast two baseline spells just about

Is the other type of skill maybe "lack of"

Oh and its no B/S that BDs can take out groups if bd have advantage of coming up suprise on group and rooting healers and stuff and then running out of heal range to kill tanks and stuff

 

[thorungla]

The problem I have with bonedancers is the lack of skill it takes to play one. Any idiot could pick up a bd and comprehensively beat the majority of the classes out there.
- even if this was the case (I'd accept comprehensively beat the majority of tanks) its hardly a reason to whine nerf merely a choice of playstyle.


If you run into a bd one vs one without any stun/ae CC you might as well just start typing release.
- this just isnt true and repeatedly stating it perpetuates argument, I've had my commander drop dead before me courtesy of bolts already, let alone in next patch. I have been killed purley by inteligent use of nearsight and root.


Every class should have a chacne vs every toher class, even if it is just a chance to escape rather than kill the opponent. with a BD there is nothing you can do.
- Indeed this would be nice but we all just know it can never be the case due to the diversity of classes and skills, why on earth should a healer ever think they can kill a tank. I dont want to have a chance against everyone. I want to identify my enemy and ascertain if they are a viable target for whatever class Im playing at that time. Unfortuantely 1v1 just doesnt exist in any meaningful quantity for this to ever happen. And again there are many ways to kill a BD already mentioned, detailed, explained and demonstrated in duels.


The same applies to necros too ofcourse. Once your pet is engaged in melee, its a case of instahlifetap4tehwin, and it takes no skill whatsoever. Just comes down to whether the enemy resists much, but at least you have a choice of tactics (qc af debuff or an extra nuke
- Indeed all the same is very true for a necro. And guess what BD'ers can use debuffs and extra DD's as well as the LT. God knows I do as its the only way to get my dmg output high enough to really threaten ppl, ofc this is in real group based rvr. Would love to be able to solo more in this game but it just isnt like it used to be. Solo classes (ie rogues) have been nerfed too much, and those that do still mostly use buffbots.


Anyway as I've said before keep it coming with the whining and nerfs. Pretty soon all the new mmorpg launches will arrive and the petty whining communities will be of no consequence. Until of course the new games become established and whining and nefs commence there too. If you choose to be a part of that feel free

 

[thorungla]

Originally posted by opoc
Bonedancers can do 2k dmg pretty easily in the time it takes to cast two baseline spells just about

Oh and its no B/S that BDs can take out groups if bd have advantage of coming up suprise on group and rooting healers and stuff and then running out of heal range to kill tanks and stuff

Ooo teach me teach me how. Firstly, LT is capped on a target with no resists (and we all know how high the resists in alb / hib usually are) at a little over 350 every 4 seconds and base nukes probably do approx the same damage with recast time of 2.5secs.

I just dont see how to get anywhere near 2k damage in 5 seconds like you claim. Please help us all to be uber like you claim, or stop making up stories its tiresome and doesnt make you big or clever