why do chanters only get 1.0 spec points?

[old.Charonel]

recently i've made a rather cute little midget light chanter, she's fun and all but was wondering about one problem i have, spec points:

i mean, shoudnt your spec points be based on, not how many spec lines you have available, but rather how many you need to spec high to be effective?

personally i think chanters should get 1.5 spec points, that would allow you to be able to have a half decent pet (which, and i may be wrong is what enchanters class defining ability is) whilst not having to totally gimp your other spec lines until the mini dings, as it stands now, if you have light nukes that are actually better than your baseline one's, you can only do this by having a pet that can't do enough damage against a yellow for you to begin nuking/healing before that pet is on around 10% health. eldritches for example, can pure spec one line and be very effective, chanters HAVE to spend points into enchantments to not have a pet even more gimped than the proverbial "master of blades" which lowers your points left for other lines.

the simple thing i've found is that the only way i can spec myself a pet which can actually tank properly is to have enchantments higher than anything else, which means that my light spec nukes are very very weak, too weak to use really, because i dont have the spec points for them, which means that i have to use baseline nukes, now they EAT power, so, any advice on how to overcome this for a light chanter? my main aim is to spec light to 45 for the last nuke, and i'm sure that once you hit mini dings at 40+ you can easily afford to bump light up in levels, but is there any way around this problem until then? simple fact is that currently the pet seems useless if you spec light high enough for it to be worth using the nukes at all so i may as well just go pure enchantments... which i dont want to do though.

since we dont have to spec mana for run buff anymore (yes, currently in mana line, but wont be for much longer since it's going baseline enchantments) that's taken care of at least, but we still dont seem to have enough spec points to go around...

any higher lvl light chanters still here? or you all shelved until you can respec to become mana whores? (small jokeing reference to sacrifice there if anyone ever played it )

basically, mana is very good, but so much of it around these days that i wanted to make a "classic" chanter, to be different , hehe to think that mana chanters were considered rare at one time

P.S. or am i worrying prematurely? meaning, does the pet sort itself out later anyway? my chanter is only level 10 right now so i dont have the ally or compatriot yet so have to tank with the friend, just wondering if the other tank pets are such a lot better and therefore the extra enchantment spec isnt needed perhaps. either way, all input is welcome

 

[old.Takahome]

Post this in main, not in hib, and u´ll got SERIOUSLY flamed

U know why casters got 1x spec points

Btw chanters´s pet´s wildly considered overpowered rvr and V V V hated

 

[old.Charonel]

hah, i know how much people hate hate HATE enchanter pets but that doestn make them able to tank orange mobs in pve without making me blow mana healing them all the time

 

[Slinker]

I am currently lvl 28 ( all mana) and find that my pet tanks quite well with nothing in enchantments , he takes orange mobs fairly well , but normally I go mad killing blues/yellows with hardly any downtime , by the time he takes down an orange/red which I'm capped at anyway iirc , I could have taken quite a few blue/yellows and gained more xp . Some orange mobs hit a lot harder than others , I suppose it all depends what you are fighting at the time .

 

[nerys-wychhazel]

ALL Enchanter pets are basically badly broken. The only one that almost started working properly was the Ally in 1.51. In 1.52 it was made broken again.

You get the Companion at lvl 7. From 1.51 the Companion nuke/snare works fairly well. At 12 you get the Ally, at 20 the Compatriot, at 32 you get the Zealot.

With a lot of effort, you CAN make the Companion just about stay where it is supposed to. With a Zealot it is impossible, it just constantly wants to run in and start meleeing. A Zealot can be quite useful at Fort attacks though, but you will be constantly summoning new ones because of all that refusal to stay where it is told.

Much depends on how you play your character (as always). At lvl 10 I wouldn't have much more than 4 in Enchantments, and the rest in either Light or Mana. From there, chase on to maybe 11 in Enchantments, then plough all your points into either Light or Mana until at least lvl 40. Aim to have maybe 20 in Enchantments final spec, rest into your main choice line.

From 1.51 on, the mana line damage shield for the pet actually works. With your Realm castable damage shield up as well, your pet will cope with mobs no problem. If you go Light you will not get that Mana line combat damage shield, and that will potentially be a serious disadvantage. Your Light DD's can hopefully make up the shortfall, but damage shields don't get resisted, whereas DD's do.

Enchanters have had to learn how to make the most of bad pets. It is this experience of pet usage that causes the problems for other people in RvR, not the Enchanter pet's well documented and inadequate capabilities.

Edit: for a Light spec I would go somethng like 46 Light (to get the aoe -65% attack speed spell), 23 mana for the 20 pbaoe and the 22 pet damage shield, the extra would give the pbaoe a bit more grunt too, and 15 enchantments for that damage add - you could go 26 Enchantments for the better damage add though.

 

[old.Biohazard]

Every caster has 1.0x spec points solely due to the fact that all classes with 3 lines to spec in get 1.0x, all classes with 4 lines to sec in 1.5x, and all classes with 5 or more lines to spec in get 2.0x, ofcourse assasins having even more.

 

[Kobold]

ofcourse assasins having even more.

fecking infils

 

[Whandall]

NERF ASSASINS!!!

 

[Kobold]

NERF ALBS!
GIVE US PIE!

 

[old.Charonel]

Originally posted by nerys-wychhazel
With a lot of effort, you CAN make the Companion just about stay where it is supposed to.

hmmm, i never have problems with the companion, if you just tell it to stay before sending it in then it'll get into range and chain nuke very well, it's only if it's on follow etc... that it keeps trying to move after each cast, only prob with that pet is that when the mob get's into meelee if it interupts the pet you may as well release the damn thing after the fight and make a new one since the old one will never cast again.

 

[old.Charonel]

Originally posted by Whandall
NERF ASSASINS!!!

not all though, just nightshades, nobody deserves to get a free UBER DAMAGING shout DD and castable DD as an addition to being able to do vastly damaging perfs from stealth shades are just bloody overpowered in my oppinion, so i want 'em nerfed out of existance so i can stop being jelous

and while were on the subject... why the hell dont shadowblades get 2.5points? sure, crit blades get to use big axes and stuff, but what about shadowzerkers? poor sods effectively have to meelee like an inf but with gimped spec points to do it i feel sorry when i solo gank orange con shadowzerkers with my minstrel and kick the living s*it out of them sure, i use healer pets to do it with, but that's not important

but shades? bah! those DD's need nerfing NOW halving the damage and having them take 1/4 endurance a cast would be just about right, should bring them on par with the other assassin classes, i mean, everyone knows hib classes are overpowered, there's soo many posts by middies and albs saying so afterall we must have obviously have gotten some lovin' since everyone from mid and alb poked us for being a gimped realm

 

[Danya]

hmmm 1.5x spec points for casters, effectively allowing you to fully spec 2 lines... not going to happen.
Also, particularly not for chanters who are fairly likely to get nerfed (they're the latest whine-about class on vn).

 

[Quasimoto]

um they allready are nerfed, and the only patch they were uBer in was 1.51 and were not getting it....

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by old.Charonel
recently i've made a rather cute little midget light chanter, she's fun and all but was wondering about one problem i have, spec points:

i mean, shoudnt your spec points be based on, not how many spec lines you have available, but rather how many you need to spec high to be effective?

personally i think chanters should get 1.5 spec points, that would allow you to be able to have a half decent pet (which, and i may be wrong is what enchanters class defining ability is) whilst not having to totally gimp your other spec lines until the mini dings, as it stands now, if you have light nukes that are actually better than your baseline one's, you can only do this by having a pet that can't do enough damage against a yellow for you to begin nuking/healing before that pet is on around 10% health.

It will also enable you to have 48 mana and 45 light if you ignore the enchantment line which every sane person ALWAYS WILL do, because, it plain outright sucks!

And what would this leave chanters with?


A 50% heat debuff
A 325 damage(base, around 700 damage before resists at lvl 50 with capped int) 2,5 sec cast pbaoe
A 9 second stun
A 210 damage(base, around 450 damage before resists at lvl 50 with capped int) 2,8 sec cast Nuke MAX speced.

You do realize that the heat debuff and the nukes will enable ANY enchanter to nuke for 600!!!! EVERY TIME! on EVERYONE! ? no?(as a side note, with good druid buffs, including int buff, the chanter will CAP every single cast and also cast at ~1,8 seconds average, which means that every single char in the game except heroes in stag(you know, same realm as chanters? ) will die before stun runs out, every single time, any class whatsoever)

And, what do the chanter lose? pet only buffs, which are tested and proven to do at MAX spec(40something ench) about +10% damage for your pet! wohoo! He also loses a damage add and some variance on the pet heals.

As a caster, 1,5 points doesnt seem like much more than 1,0. But just look at the numbers above, they dont lie.

Here, see for yourself. http://daoc.catacombs.com/cbuilder3.cfm?classid=35&raceid=3 (its warden, just make the char lvl 50 and put one line at 48 and one at 45, it does really work)

ANY mage with 1,5 spec points will TOTALLY screw this game over, because then, and this is not a guess, this is a fact, EVERYONE would play either that mage, or a rogue of some kind. Except for the 5% who wants to be special but die alot.

In closure, THATs why enchanters only get 1,0 spec points

 

[old.Charonel]

bah, still unfair not used to playing a caster in a while and i'm not used to having to scrimp around for the miserly 1.0 spec points still want 1.5 ;p

 

[healer_mcheal]

u do get 1.5 but only for 10 lvls
40-50 through mini dings

 

[old.Kennsai]

i find enchanter spec ok, i got 20 in enchantments at lvl42 and my mana is still high enough to give high damage, but my pet can solo orange mobs with no heals. (10-15% health left though) with 20 in enchantments i still get 50 mana so im not to bothered.

 

[Cloak_]

Cast speed is hard capped at 2secs..

With little enchy spec my pets hold agro easily,, since i use a low light nuke w/ high heat debuff

 

[Aeiedil]

ok cba reading past the first post, imo all casters only need 1x

i spec mana on my chanter, and although i miss all the sweet pet buffs, i personally do uber damage, and will have an even more uber pet damage shield to make up for it you just have to choose what kind of a caster you wanna be, in the same way as other classes have to choose their specialties

 

[Herbal Remedy]

ONE AND A HALF SPEC POINTS???????????????? O-N-E A-N-D A H-A-L-F S-P-E-C P-O-I-N-T-S ????????????????????????????

Bangs head on desk repeatedly over powered sons of "£%£"£$"£

fookin pet nukes for 150 dmg ffs not to mention what the chanter does themselves i mean !"$!¬£"%%%!£$"%"%$£

/em tries to calm down

/em decides herbal better leave before theres charges pressed

 

[Ziva]

I disagree... i am lvl 45 now and entchant i have 20 and my pet can easily solo oranges. I just nuke them two times to make sure my pets health stays up.

I managed to do a purple pooka once (must have been a bug) and some red pooks. Sure i had no mana left but hey... how many classes can do this? Most classes i know (and play) can solo a yellow and even that won't work sometimes.

So imho the entchanter is really overpowered and therefore i think their weakness kinda makes up for this fact. Sure im usually the first to die but u cannot have it both ways imho.

 

[Aeiedil]

eldritch = all offence little defence

warden = all defence less offence


all the rest lie between going from mages through rogues, bm, champ hero warden

the healers dont count they sit on the outside

 

[Whandall]

Originally posted by Aeiedil
eldritch = all offence little defence

warden = all defence less offence

enchanter = sitting around while pet is doing all the work

hero = brainless fighter with a spear

blademaster = just want to be watched with their 1337 swords

champion = Ex WWC Champ who retired and still trys ti be a good fighter

druid = buffer....nuff said

bard = always playing songs but cant sing.....karaokeeeeeeeee!!

nightshade = gimps

rangers = UBERGIMPS

 

[Danya]

Eldritch rocks. I like being able to nuke an orange to death before it reaches me.
Oh yeah 1.5x spec points so I can have 45 light / 48 mana, uber pbae, uber nukes, stun, ae str/con debuff shout, nearsight, ae mez... did I miss anything?

 

[old.Takahome]

Rofl @ herbal hahahahah

 

[old.Moriaana]

My chanter's final spec will be 39Mana, 34 Enchantments and 10 in light. Dont really know if its gimped, but I am looking forward to dmg buffing all the lowbies in mag mell. Not to mention all the lvl 50's etc for dragon raids ....

 

[VidX]

Originally posted by N07ABL3
Cast speed is hard capped at 2secs..

That's what they say, not what it does

pbaoe.txt

The pbaoe has a base casting time of 2.6 seconds, with a dex of 297 I can cast 15 of them in 24 seconds, meaning average casting time of 1.6 seconds.

 

[Kobold]

hero = brainless fighter with a spear

OK I might brainless, but I don't use spear, hammer is much nicer

Why don't give heroes4x points and able to spec light, mana and void - Give NS only cloth armor - Remove rangers bow abilety, remove bards abilety to use instruments, remove druids heals and buffs, remove wardens bubble, And ofcourse give enchanters plate armor for self and pet and make pets nuke for 600

Uhm, well 9 hours work now, fecking tired...going home finnaly!

 

[VidX]

Enchanters really only need to spec in 1 line for maximum effectiveness, any other lines are just an added bonus.

For instance, at /respec, I am going for 48 Mana, and the rest in Light (24 I think) as the 50% Heat debuff in the Mana line combined with the slightly smaller damage variance of the Light base DD will still hit for ALOT of damage, plus you have the pbaoe and pet damage shield.

Then at high levels, the pet really is only useful for annoying enemies and casters in RvR or for the Ally pet in XP groups.

 

[VidX]

Originally posted by old.Eternal[EW]

And ofcourse give enchanters plate armor for self and pet and make pets nuke for 600

Ok, starting a petition now