When is this "open beta"?

[Lexa]

Well i preordered.. gief beta now please!

I'm sure they will, about a week before release that is.

 

[adoNix]

I'm sure they will, about a week before release that is.

hehe, im afraid of that too.. still, i have such high hopes for WAR and its basicly either war or quit playing mmos as i see it atm.

 

[Kremlik]

well I don't see what all the fuss is about 'getting into beta' unless you really like to test a buggy product like I do , as with most betas it isn't a 'free trial' of a complete product, you'll have crashes, resets, and be stunted about with focus testing... Many many people don't relise that and come to the wrong conclutions about the game

 

[adoNix]

well I don't see what all the fuss is about 'getting into beta' unless you really like to test a buggy product like I do , as with most betas it isn't a 'free trial' of a complete product, you'll have crashes, resets, and be stunted about with focus testing... Many many people don't relise that and come to the wrong conclutions about the game

Well of course, i know that it isn't the finished product, and i would like to leave feedback that's actually read by someone and help improving the game

 

[Keata]

I think beta will start about a month before release.. and those of us who preordered CE will be allowed backstage passes to be the first at the party!

 

[Faeldawn]

well I don't see what all the fuss is about 'getting into beta' unless you really like to test a buggy product like I do , as with most betas it isn't a 'free trial' of a complete product, you'll have crashes, resets, and be stunted about with focus testing... Many many people don't relise that and come to the wrong conclutions about the game

Unfortunately thats the reality of it.

 

[chrislocalboy]

This annoys the hell out of me, on lots of non Warhammer related forums I've seen people saying they played WAR in beta and its rubbish, Conan is better etc etc etc.

Now I've argued until blue in the face with these people that they are treated a golden beta invite like a free trial like Lexa mentioned...... and not looking correctly at it and seeing it as being asked to 'test' a game and point out and bugs and flaws etc etc.

These people dont seem to understand that the game is actually not finished yet and still has a lot of work to be done on it. Why is it the people who really want to be involved and can but up with the low res settings, crashes and bugs never seem to get the invites? its always the ones who play it for an hour..... and decide the game is completely rubbish because the high res textures have not yet been applied and are judging it solely on this?

Anyone who utters the words 'WOW Clone' feels my wrath!!!

Give the good guys a chance!

Bakes my noodle I tell you!!!

 

[Kremlik]

They've only seen the apha stuff and kneejerked the responce as if WAR > WoW that means to them they aren't in the 'cool' game anymore. Remember a lot of the playerbase out there think there can only be one game that can be good and sucessful .

They really didn't see the harmony between the old school MMOs and there hasn't really been a 'on mass' floppage with MMOs until WoW showed up and devs rushed to cash in this wave of success thus making subpar rushed and very broken games. Furthing the beleaf only one MMO can be good (ie WoW). Until 'the masses' realise that there is more good choices out there, they will stick to WoW leaving the rest just to distill into the other MMOs, which on one hand is good.

As long as the devs and publishers aren't expecting their game to be an instant success and rake in WoW's numbers, then all MMOs have a chance, ultimatly it's not the clone screamers that kill the MMOs it's the greed of the team behind it.

 

[Faeldawn]

They've only seen the apha stuff and kneejerked the responce as if WAR > WoW that means to them they aren't in the 'cool' game anymore. Remember a lot of the playerbase out there think there can only be one game that can be good and sucessful .

They really didn't see the harmony between the old school MMOs and there hasn't really been a 'on mass' floppage with MMOs until WoW showed up and devs rushed to cash in this wave of success thus making subpar rushed and very broken games. Furthing the beleaf only one MMO can be good (ie WoW). Until 'the masses' realise that there is more good choices out there, they will stick to WoW leaving the rest just to distill into the other MMOs, which on one hand is good.

As long as the devs and publishers aren't expecting their game to be an instant success and rake in WoW's numbers, then all MMOs have a chance, ultimatly it's not the clone screamers that kill the MMOs it's the greed of the team behind it.

I would agree with this, I feel a few recent mmorpg's have been WoW rip-offs, for better or for worse, they have tried to duplicate the game template in an obvious attempt to duplicate the success. This causes one obvious problem and that is that it makes these games very easy to compare to games like WoW.

 

[twix112]

well yeah no wonder they try to duplicate it since it has been such a great success... The problem with all MMO right now, at least the ones I have tested, is that they all is for like 12 year old kids with no life. That is the biggest problem acording to me, fine they can copy the wow template as long as those irritating kids will go away. That's one of the bigger reason I have been seeking War out is just that it seems they try to get more mature audience and that I love the Warhammer universe.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I would agree with this, I feel a few recent mmorpg's have been WoW rip-offs, for better or for worse, they have tried to duplicate the game template in an obvious attempt to duplicate the success. This causes one obvious problem and that is that it makes these games very easy to compare to games like WoW.

The WoW template isn't exactly that much different to the every-mmo-before-wow template And there have been plenty of tanking MMOs before WoW launched too.

The problem isn't that the latter day games have failed though - a lot of them are going to be quite profitable - The problem is that people see WoW numbers as a requirement for "success" - WoW numbers are an abberation, anyone expecting to get them with their new game has their head in the clouds.

It's like comparing any new game release to Pokemon and declaring it a failure if it doesn't break its 20 million sales mark...

 

[Nimum]

So Are the Open Beta Realising in Europe the Same time As it does in the State i whant to fill out my Codes soon starting to feel insecure to keep em safe

 

[Faeldawn]

well yeah no wonder they try to duplicate it since it has been such a great success... The problem with all MMO right now, at least the ones I have tested, is that they all is for like 12 year old kids with no life. That is the biggest problem acording to me, fine they can copy the wow template as long as those irritating kids will go away. That's one of the bigger reason I have been seeking War out is just that it seems they try to get more mature audience and that I love the Warhammer universe.

I would guess if your looking for maturity in your online gaming commuity, WAR might not turn out to be far different from every other similar game already available.

I'm sure you'll find the usual pockets of mature and friendly players, but it's hard to see it being anything different from the norm.

 

[Faeldawn]

The WoW template isn't exactly that much different to the every-mmo-before-wow template And there have been plenty of tanking MMOs before WoW launched too.

The problem isn't that the latter day games have failed though - a lot of them are going to be quite profitable - The problem is that people see WoW numbers as a requirement for "success" - WoW numbers are an abberation, anyone expecting to get them with their new game has their head in the clouds.

It's like comparing any new game release to Pokemon and declaring it a failure if it doesn't break its 20 million sales mark...

I think EA might disagree

The WoW template has little to do with the actual game, it's more the publicising and marketting that made it a success. As a game it's pretty unremarkable.

New games now have a far bigger market thanks to Blizzard opening up mmorpg's to the greater gaming community. As such we have seen an explosion of mmorpg releases, without WoW very few of these would have made it to beta.

Companies invest more in mmorpgs now, and as such they want a bigger return on their investment than older releases might at the time.

Getting DAoC-type figures for a new release would be a disaster nowadays, back then it was a reasonable success. Success is not measured by how good the actual game is, but by sales and subscriptions. Unfortunately a poorly promoted and advertised game could be the best mmorpg ever made play-wise, but will ultimately never reach it's full potential.

Buggered if i remember how the thread went from beta to this

 

[Kremlik]

You are both right but also IMO both wrong...

Yes publishers invest a ton into games these days,so subcriptions numbers would matter to a point. An investers main question should and qiote possibily would be: how fast would I make my return and start profiting?

Like I said it's down to greed, you've got the 'lets make a 'quick' MMO push it out into the market and game our money back within the year and start profiting' or the 'lets build a MMO gain a soild playerbase and allowing it to increase steadly over 2-3 years to make turnover', EA and Mythic are the latter and for a simple reason:

MMORPGs are a long term investment. Until WoW popped it's head up a lot of us MMOers kepted loyal to our MMOs, everyone understood that, so 'quick profit' in the market was thought of impossbile therefore the volume of titles on the market was small. now that WoW pulled in so many quickly, the thought of publishers is MMOs = console games, commitment to a game is short therefore playerbases will jump to the next fad game, therefore hype the game up and people would come running.. Thats half true but still the above comment is true and many publishers don't release how loyal a gamer is to their communities, heck even the new MMOers from WoW are still extremly loyal to it, 'quick profits' are still quite hard to do in this market, therefore if a publisher isn't expecting a long term commitment to the game before mass profits.. They are in for a shock

 

[DanteTheReaper]

you guys sound like my business studies lecturer.
i gotta admit ive been playing WoW for 20 months, and when WAR comes out im still not gonna leave WoW just juggle both games. ive beta tested games before so ive seen the kind of bugs you will get (eg: random invisible characters), hell you can still get bugs in finished games, look at ETQW, that has a lot of problems and its been out for 6 months now.

 

[Stallion]

You are both right but also IMO both wrong...

Yes publishers invest a ton into games these days,so subcriptions numbers would matter to a point. An investers main question should and qiote possibily would be: how fast would I make my return and start profiting?

Like I said it's down to greed, you've got the 'lets make a 'quick' MMO push it out into the market and game our money back within the year and start profiting' or the 'lets build a MMO gain a soild playerbase and allowing it to increase steadly over 2-3 years to make turnover', EA and Mythic are the latter and for a simple reason:

MMORPGs are a long term investment. Until WoW popped it's head up a lot of us MMOers kepted loyal to our MMOs, everyone understood that, so 'quick profit' in the market was thought of impossbile therefore the volume of titles on the market was small. now that WoW pulled in so many quickly, the thought of publishers is MMOs = console games, commitment to a game is short therefore playerbases will jump to the next fad game, therefore hype the game up and people would come running.. Thats half true but still the above comment is true and many publishers don't release how loyal a gamer is to their communities, heck even the new MMOers from WoW are still extremly loyal to it, 'quick profits' are still quite hard to do in this market, therefore if a publisher isn't expecting a long term commitment to the game before mass profits.. They are in for a shock

I agree, "modern" investors dont use the payback rule to determine whether they should invest or not. These kind of estimates are not able to calculate investments that need a longer timeframe to become profitable... and usaly good things dont come around easy, it takes time...

Using NPV method to calculate whether they should invest or not, will in most cases result in the investor wanting especially a mmorpg to be as addictive as possible and hope for it to hold out many years, with an steady increase in the playerbase. A increasing playerbase allows economies of scales... one of the most important factor of making profits on producing computer game! Its just like any medical company, first there is a phase of massive R&D with statistical tests and analysis of the drug, once its approved, there are very slim costs associated with putting the product on the market and reaping high marginals..

This is what their want to do with WAR, and thus the delay..

It will be something unique, EA knows it has to be able to match WoW.
They do have the advantage of having purchased a "small" studio like Mythic with huge experience in what succesfull mmorpg pvp can be like..

 

[Faeldawn]

I agree, "modern" investors dont use the payback rule to determine whether they should invest or not. These kind of estimates are not able to calculate investments that need a longer timeframe to become profitable... and usaly good things dont come around easy, it takes time...

Using NPV method to calculate whether they should invest or not, will in most cases result in the investor wanting especially a mmorpg to be as addictive as possible and hope for it to hold out many years, with an steady increase in the playerbase. A increasing playerbase allows economies of scales... one of the most important factor of making profits on producing computer game! Its just like any medical company, first there is a phase of massive R&D with statistical tests and analysis of the drug, once its approved, there are very slim costs associated with putting the product on the market and reaping high marginals..

This is what their want to do with WAR, and thus the delay..

It will be something unique, EA knows it has to be able to match WoW.
They do have the advantage of having purchased a "small" studio like Mythic with huge experience in what succesfull mmorpg pvp can be like..

I agree with some of this, but no self-respecting company will take a risk on producing a commodity like an mmorpg if they cannot guarantee (or at least accurately estimate) a certain baseline for initial sales figures. WAR will not get the numbers that games like WoW and Lineage get, thats certain, but what kind of numbers are EA expecting? Considering the type of game it will be, it's difficult to know.

To think that your playerbase will continue to grow once the initial 6-12 month honeymoon period is over is an assumption and a risky one at that given the current mmorpg market which is fickle and overly saturated with similar games. Certainly it did not work with Dark Age, 2-3 years in with a playerbase that never really overtook the initial years subscriptions, the playerbase nosedived and never recovered, in fact it did nothing but continue to dwindle and is still dropping away now.

Mythics "huge experience" has questionable value, they made a lot of mistakes and essentially smothered a lot of the potential DAoC had. Was DAoC a success? Initially perhaps, but long term? The numbers speak for themselves. Perhaps Mythic have learnt from their mistakes, lets hope so. If that be the case then perhaps some of the the 6 years they spent struggling with DAoC can be put to some good use.

 

[DanteTheReaper]

IMO WAR= better than WoW, because WAR story is done by Games Workshop, and to anyone who has collected and read the army books/ codexes/ stories in GW u know they r pretty good in that department. And as we have already seen there is some original stuff in WAR, the siege and mastery system etc. you cant really says its a WoW (C word) because Blizzard ripped off so many other games to make WoW, at least this is coming from an un-blizzard related area, and if blizzard do copy then their in for some serious lawsuits.
and we cant really compare WAR to any other game yet, seeing as those who talk have only seen a very small portion of it, and those who have seen a large portion of it dont talk. when it comes out, then we can slag off blizzard knowing we were right all along.

 

[Kremlik]

Well I think wanting WAR to be 'better' then Wow in quality is a given, how did Battlefield Heroes put it? 'not for hyper active CSS players how spend 14 hours online a day pinning you to the floor hitting with the other end of the gun' or somthing like that.. I think thats what WAR is aimed out also..

Seeing as 90% of gamers fit the 'CSS elite bunny hopping with a sniper', I personally beleave any true MMORPG doesn't fit that type of player, WoW does as it isn't really a MMORPG, it's more a hack and slasher with a FPS pvp basis.. WAR isn't that, it's more tacticful, it's more feeling to it, it's not build to satisify your epeen.. Therefore WAR will certainly not be welcome for those type of gamers, so it's unlikly those players will have long term commitments to it, it's the other 10% of the market that would quite possibily be loyal to the game..

Point to all that then was to say thats why WAR will never really gain the WoW sub numbers it's more true to classic MMORPGs then trying to fit itself into the moden take on them by turning them into counterstrike and work on somthing like the 360... Thats the other thing the publishers don't think for if you don't go buger king mass market with your games your catering for that smaller market we've been chatting about...

So when release hits hype will be high therefore subs will be high if not stupidly high for the first few months and if common to current trend happens subs will start to decline after 3-6 months (depending on level of content and quality) due to how fickle the market playerbase is sadly, thats how the dice roll these days lots of 1s and 2s...

The real outlook on subs long term will be in complete flux, so everyone could be looking at a loss of profits over the first year however if the quality of the game is typed up then the rep of the game would improve so your looking at about 1.5 years before you can start really to look at profits, hence the reseaning behind the longer term commitments work out in the again and theres no quick profits anymore..

If EA understand all this and understand how the market cureently is and WAR isn't really 'for the market' then it's going to be ok

 

[Dervish]

Do you seriously believe that 90% of gamers are the elite bunny hoppers? I suppose it depends on which gaming circles you move in but 90%???

If that is true then I personally know ALL the remaining 10%....

 

[Kremlik]

Do you seriously believe that 90% of gamers are the elite bunny hoppers? I suppose it depends on which gaming circles you move in but 90%???

If that is true then I personally know ALL the remaining 10%....

Well if you look at it this way theres not that many games or formats that don't really not have some form of scoreboard, plus lets look at the current most hyped game out there Halo and GTA both are FPSs, gaming these days isn't about fun it's about winning (although Wii sales contridict my beleaves but things like Mario kart and all those party games still fuel the compeive nature of gaming).. Now in the MMORPG market theres only a few games that cater for that type of gamer, and needless to say WoW actally is one of those games and it does again needless to say holds the bigestest chunk of the market..

Yes '90%' could be a wee bit overstating yes but however it's more then likly for the most part true... =/

 

[Faeldawn]

The real outlook on subs long term will be in complete flux, so everyone could be looking at a loss of profits over the first year however if the quality of the game is typed up then the rep of the game would improve so your looking at about 1.5 years before you can start really to look at profits, hence the reseaning behind the longer term commitments work out in the again and theres no quick profits anymore..

If EA understand all this and understand how the market cureently is and WAR isn't really 'for the market' then it's going to be ok

Once again im not convinced this is true.

I can proabably count on the fingers of one hand the number of mmorpg games which had more active subscribers several years after release than they did in the first year (EvE, WoW, Lineage, Lineage 2 and...erm....wait a sec..).

DAoC? no
CoH? probably not unless you count CoV maybe
AC2? no
SWG? lol, no
DDO? who knows
TR? doubtful
Planetside? not a chance
Shadowbane? no
Ryzom? prolly not
UO? can't remember
PotBS? remains to be seen, but unlikely
Lotro? no, although it depends if you count all the dead lifer accounts
GW? doesn't count as no-one pays subs for this game.
FFXI? god only knows
RF online? doubtful

Perhaps im wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[Faeldawn]

Well if you look at it this way theres not that many games or formats that don't really not have some form of scoreboard, plus lets look at the current most hyped game out there Halo and GTA both are FPSs, gaming these days isn't about fun it's about winning (although Wii sales contridict my beleaves but things like Mario kart and all those party games still fuel the compeive nature of gaming).. Now in the MMORPG market theres only a few games that cater for that type of gamer, and needless to say WoW actally is one of those games and it does again needless to say holds the bigestest chunk of the market..

Yes '90%' could be a wee bit overstating yes but however it's more then likly for the most part true... =/

Top selling console games of all time:

1. Pokémon Red, Blue, and Green (Game Boy – 20.08 million approximately, 10.23 million in Japan,[43] 9.85 million in US)[18]
2. Nintendogs (DS – 18.67 million)[70]
3. Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES – 18 million)[40]
4. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2 – 17.5 million,[24] may include PC and Xbox versions)
5. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (PS2 – 14.87 million)[102]

Top selling PC game of all time?

The Sims. 50 million (70 if you count expansions)

WoW is indeed right up there with 10 million.

List of best-selling video games - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kremlik]

Fael note I said 'hyped' not 'best selling'..

 

[Reno]

Once again im not convinced this is true.

I can proabably count on the fingers of one hand the number of mmorpg games which had more active subscribers several years after release than they did in the first year (EvE, WoW, Lineage, Lineage 2 and...erm....wait a sec..).

DAoC? no
Perhaps im wrong, but I doubt it.

I'd revise your verdict on DaoC. The SI period ( maybe with very early Toa) were probably the busiest times. That's the 2nd year.

Danita

 

[Faeldawn]

I'd revise your verdict on DaoC. The SI period ( maybe with very early Toa) were probably the busiest times. That's the 2nd year.

Danita

I said several years

 

[Faeldawn]

Fael note I said 'hyped' not 'best selling'..

Yep, point taken, but you did say "gaming these days isn't about fun, it's about winning", i think the poultry 18.67 million players of Nintendogs might disagree