What Sort of PvP System Does WoW Need?

Sendraks

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I'm guessing, from the other threads I've read, that people want to see some sort of reward, points, system for participating in PvP. What sort of things are people thinking of?

I guess some would want to see a system like that of DAoC, which I think would be incredibly bad for WoW PvP. The DAoC system created a huge rift between those players who either player a lot or had played for a long time, making the RvR end game of DAoC quite inaccessible to new and casual players.

As WoW is supposed to be, I think, the game that is accessible to the most people, how should it implement a PvP system that doesn't create a massive gap between the hardcore player and casual gamer?
 

Pestilence

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A Honour/dishonour system.

Greyganking by delivering the first strike = dishonour
Greyganking by selfdefense = honour/neutral.

Dishonour lowering the amount of rank points earnt and giving negetive effects to the slayer. for example each dishounour points = 1 lowered point in all stats.sta/agi/int/str.. Dishonour points can only be negated by earning twice the amount of honour, two honourable kills removes one dishonour points.

A Reward system, giving bonuses like extra talent points at certain ranks.
Other bonuses at certain ranks etc.

Corpse looting, looting unbound items (non soulbound) such as money, drops. or one of the above randomly generated upon loot or death.
Let us say i have 20 items on me, one of those items could be the lootie presented to the looter, picked in random. gold not put in "bank" can also be one of the lootable objects. too limit the gold loss a percentage let us say 60% of the gold will if randomly selected be lootable.
 

Sendraks

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Pestilence said:
A Honour/dishonour system.

Greyganking by delivering the first strike = dishonour
Greyganking by selfdefense = honour/neutral.

Dishonour lowering the amount of rank points earnt and giving negetive effects to the slayer. for example each dishounour points = 1 lowered point in all stats.sta/agi/int/str.. Dishonour points can only be negated by earning twice the amount of honour, two honourable kills removes one dishonour points.

This I like.

Pestilence said:
A Reward system, giving bonuses like extra talent points at certain ranks.
Other bonuses at certain ranks etc.

This I don't like, because eventually you'd have the long term players at rank 10 (for example) talented up the wazooo and happily owning all those new players at rank 1. A PvP system should, to be fair, provide an equal chance to a player who has only been playing a few weeks at lvl 60 in combat to someone who has been playing for months. Only experience and tactics will truly decide the fight. If a new player has better tactics, reactions and all round skill than a long term player, then they should win a fight and not be mown down due to the long term player possessing an artillery of additional abilities.

How about being able to collect bounty from your faction NPC guards for each kill you make, dependant on level of person killed?

Pestilence said:
Corpse looting, looting unbound items (non soulbound) such as money, drops. or one of the above randomly generated upon loot or death.

If it gave the victory a copy of one of the items in the defeated players inventory, that sounds great to me. A good solid reward for winning a fight. The loser shouldn't be penalised by losing an item though.
 

Ovi1

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Reward systems do not have to seperate players into have's and have not's.

The problem I felt with DAOC is that all of the RAs made characters more powerful. If they made the abilities add variety then they shouldn't create such a big divide.
 

Asha

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First I would like to see something to make it competative. Points don't have to corrolate to new abilities but simpley could be used to show who is having most kills etc...ofc grouped memebers share points. It's just more fun when you can compair yourself to others.

Second I would like some bonus, but doesn't ahve to be abilities. It could be fluff like housing, pretty mounts, etc. It could be titles like in daoc but w/o the RAs...

I think that a hero system is incoming though.

Third I would like to see some castles or ownership of towns/zones. Not sure on details but would like to be able to "control" a towns npcs to some extent (as a guild) if you defend it or complete some quest. I don't know how this could work in the current world though. It could work in new zones that are contested. ie all towns in a zone (large and small) are controlled by neutral NPCs until a guild (Horde or Alli) attack and successfully take the town over. Then you could set the NPCs to agressive or neutral to the opposite faction. You could maybe put on taxation to vendor NPCs and have your own guild NPC, guild bank/house paid for by taxation and if that doesn't cover it, then by your guild. "mini-event" Raids could periodically happen by npcs and the opposite facton could always help the NPCs. There was something like this in L2 but it was VERY badly worked and stupid and it was SCHEDULED which was very lame. However, if done right it could be extremely fun to take and defend a town and ofc to attack towns. You could set your NPCs to neutral and get many small battles going on when opposing factions are trying to get to your NPCs or you could set them aggressive and wait for a big push by opposing factions. This would be much more fun than DAoC keeps systems imo... more sorta involved.
 

Pestilence

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Asha:

You are describing Shadowbane.
Siegeing cities is a big part of that game when it comes to guild/alliance warfare.

however WoW at its current state and mechanics wont be able to support it.
I think.

However something similar to what Warcraft the original game was, holding resources. Could be something...

Building up defences, holding your valuable "fort" surrounding your "resource" whatever that might be.

Well just playing with the thought.
 

SilverHood

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I think blizz mentioned that PvP rewards are going to be abilities, specific to Battlegrounds... like calling in cavalry strikes, ordering air strikes.

Personally, I'd like to see new items become available as you gain reputation for PvP, and maybe PvP specific abillities, like the ability to regen health / mana faster after a fight.
 

Ovi1

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Pestilence said:
...
Building up defences, holding your valuable "fort" surrounding your "resource" whatever that might be.


Isn't that the kind of thing Battlegrounds will offer?
 

Ogen

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Well, first of all, i like some of the ideers above.. But still, i think there have to be somekinda gab between high rvr experienced players and the new ones.. Else, i dont really see any reson to do pvp... Would imo be waisting time.. Like lets say you play this game for 6 month.. you do a whole lot of pvp´ing... Then you meet a new player 1on1 same level as you etc.. But he kicks your ass cuz im imbalances or luck etc.. So in these 6 month of playing after hitting 60, you would have achived exactly nothing :x..
A game like this, raelly need some sort of end game, as it seems rather easy to get to 60 (Seen lvl55+ 5 days after game start)..
 

Garok

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It wont have a PvP Ability reward system as such but points/ranks will be used to buy special equipment from the officers barracks in the main cities.
You will most likely be able to trade in points for either pieces of specific suites or lots of points for special items on trade timers (like some of the world traders have) such special PvP reward mounts (think epic lvl 60 mounts but with Armour Graphic's).

I would imagin what Officers Barracks you enter (when you go into the Barracks Portal) will depend on your current rank.

Command ranks can will be built up in the battlegrounds and used to access special chat channels and abilities much like it was in Planetside, (...got some idiot spamming command channels with rubbish report them and GM will take action Warnings etc .. should allow them to be used properly). Special attacks etc will be able to be called in and the kill point total be divided and distributed to all those in the BG.
 

civy

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Ogen said:
Well, first of all, i like some of the ideers above.. But still, i think there have to be somekinda gab between high rvr experienced players and the new ones.. Else, i dont really see any reson to do pvp... Would imo be waisting time.. Like lets say you play this game for 6 month.. you do a whole lot of pvp´ing... Then you meet a new player 1on1 same level as you etc.. But he kicks your ass cuz im imbalances or luck etc.. So in these 6 month of playing after hitting 60, you would have achived exactly nothing :x..
A game like this, raelly need some sort of end game, as it seems rather easy to get to 60 (Seen lvl55+ 5 days after game start)..

Or lets say you are a total doofbag whos spent 6 months leaching his way up the ranks and is loaded with tools. You then run into a clever player with more skill and you proceed to hand the skilled player his arse just because you have certain toys.

Realm abilities were the start of the downfall of DAoC for me. I hope WoW doesnt take the same route.
 

Garok

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civy said:
Or lets say you are a total doofbag whos spent 6 months leaching his way up the ranks and is loaded with tools. You then run into a clever player with more skill and you proceed to hand the skilled player his arse just because you have certain toys.

Realm abilities were the start of the downfall of DAoC for me. I hope WoW doesnt take the same route.

Completely agree with civys point which is why im abit concerned about hero classes and how they will effect the game.

Just take a look a Jedi's in SWG soloing groups of 20 people and the BFR's in Plannetside just shows you how a good idea can end up utimately ruining a already fun game, by adding content for the sake of adding it.
 

Marcus75

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While I agree with the fact that realm abilities can ruin the game it will be hard for any mmorpg to keep its playerbase if they dont offer some kind of reward for those PvPing at 60.

I'm all for a honor/dishonor system and the idea that a 60 defending himself should not get a reduction in honor if he is attack by lowbies.
 

Fana

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Well Bliz have already indicated that their rewards will be more of the "fluff" variant - Cooler looking armour, weapons, mounts and special officer tabards etc, access to special areas, epic quests and such. Nothing really "hardware" so to speak, which is excellent in my oppinion. Should be plenty of reason to rise in the ranks - in fact, you should be pvp'ing because the pvp itself is fun for you, not because you gain leet pwnpoints and iwin-abilities.

Rank system and fluff is the way to go.
 

CplCarrot

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Firstly, in response to marcus, mate there is SO much to do at level 60 that its just plain silly - level 60 is also a temporary cap I think, pvp is not the only option like in other mmorpgs , DAOC springs to mind.

I also think that most think pvp and think of the problems DAOC has created for itself - don't forget that the problems pre DAOC were even worse (looting of corpses for example, not to mention looting of greys) - worse enough to turn me away from MMORPG's - DAOC won me back , for its day it was quite revolutionary.

I left DAOC in the shiny days of Realm Abilities arriving and sold my shiny Infiltrator (think I was among the top 10 to 50) - so lets just get it clear that I did not press the "Win button" - infiltrator was a tough class to solo and totally un-discovered (no cookie cutter spec etc). (just wanted to get that clear)

Realm Points were cool - you could see on duskwave etc, your ranking amongst your class / server.

But Realm Abilities, gah! dont talk to me about Realm Abilities - it ruined the game and handed the twatstick to any kid/saddo who had 15 hours per day to play. It was simply a case of spend more time playing and from RR5+ just have a stupid amount of UNFAIR advantages. The balance wasnt bad before Realm Abilites, perhaps with the exception of Paladins.

I personally thought that DAOC was very well balanced in the early days (pre RA) - but RA just made any class be able to have the edge of any other class without RA.

WOW is a beautifully balanced game at the moment, I thoroughly enjoy my PVP and I *think* there is already a reward system (I *think* that PvP kills increase and decrease your reputation with certain factions - ala cheaper prices. But im not 100% sure.

In short, I'd settle for a points/rank system, maybe with VERY slight increases in base stats (such as +1 for each Rank) - but certainly no "Win" Realm Abilities, such as Vanish / Master of Pain etc.

I do want to see dishonour for killing greys that havent tagged you first though - already we are seeing some gits who seem to take pleasure in only attacking those they have a guaranteed win against.

<rant starts here>
its a pipe dream - but wouldn't it be great if u could lower peoples honour for just standing by when a +10 level enemy attacks you - rather than just standing there and watching (or worse still, like Sulphur yesterday - tracking your own team members (at level 30) down on your mount for the enemy - then laughing as a level 40+ whacks a level 30 ;) now thats low.

For anyone that cares (I suspect no-one does) - Apparantly having CPL in my name is a justifiable reason to work for the enemy, as its a CS clan (haha its short for bloody corporal)
<rant ends here>
 

Ogen

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civy said:
Or lets say you are a total doofbag whos spent 6 months leaching his way up the ranks and is loaded with tools. You then run into a clever player with more skill and you proceed to hand the skilled player his arse just because you have certain toys.

Realm abilities were the start of the downfall of DAoC for me. I hope WoW doesnt take the same route.

Still i assume blizzard would like to have people playing this game for more then 6 month.. And what would be the point of doing this, if you dosent gain anything beside level60 within the first 2 weeks of playing?
 

Whisperess

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CplCarrot said:
level 60 is also a temporary cap I think
They would have to redesign every class' Talent trees if they raise the level cap. That makes me doubt it'll ever grow beyond 60. There's the upcoming Hero classes to handle people wanting to grow their characters beyond level 60.
 

Sendraks

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Ogen said:
Still i assume blizzard would like to have people playing this game for more then 6 month.. And what would be the point of doing this, if you dosent gain anything beside level60 within the first 2 weeks of playing?

There are other ways of rewarding "good" (i.e. honourable) PvP play beyond granting access to abilities that over time will confer such a huge advantage to long time players (not necessarily skilled) that it makes the PvP end game inaccessible.

Balanced PvP is fun in its own right. I get satisfaction if I defeat someone, I don't feel overly cheesed off if I lose. This to me is a happy medium. If Blizz make it so I get more fluff, nice looking items (not necessarily much better in stats than those available through regular questing), a banner maybe and improved reputation with my faction (which they could realistically store and rank to show which players are most favoured by the Alliance and Horde) then thats reward for achievement and some measured means of progress over this hypothetical 6 month period.

In addition to the above ideas, you'd hope that at the end of 6 months regular PvP play you'd have developed a degree of skill, learnt the lay of the land and a few cunning tactics. Thats your advantage over the new player.

I don't see why someone who plays for 6 months should be given an inherent advantage, in terms of abilities, over new players to compensate for the fact that they suck?
 

CplCarrot

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Whisperess said:
They would have to redesign every class' Talent trees if they raise the level cap. That makes me doubt it'll ever grow beyond 60. There's the upcoming Hero classes to handle people wanting to grow their characters beyond level 60.

aye, same thing isnt it? like Realm Ranks in DAOC allowed u to achieve a technical "level 51" at RR5.
 

Darksword

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Pestilence said:
Corpse looting, looting unbound items (non soulbound) such as money, drops. or one of the above randomly generated upon loot or death.
Let us say i have 20 items on me, one of those items could be the lootie presented to the looter, picked in random. gold not put in "bank" can also be one of the lootable objects. too limit the gold loss a percentage let us say 60% of the gold will if randomly selected be lootable.


u mean items in inventory or items equiped? most items my rogue is using, infact all i think, r soul bound so thered b nothing from me but cash

tho i do like this idea

very intresting :D

id also like a more ruthless server of pvp much like camlann :D
 

Ormorof

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Darksword said:
u mean items in inventory or items equiped? most items my rogue is using, infact all i think, r soul bound so thered b nothing from me but cash

tho i do like this idea

very intresting :D

id also like a more ruthless server of pvp much like camlann :D


camlann was a pile of crap though... this is the starting experience of camlann....

START:

create character! rawr going to be an evil wizard!

start in camelot hills (as a briton), to get /level gear easier

walk to camelot after becoming a level 5 elementalist (with /level)

become a fearsome wizard!

get beginner gear

leave camelot

MEZZED!!!!!! STUNNED!!! KILLED!!!

Ormie was just killed by a fg of lvl 50's camping camelot gates.......



whereas pvp server on WoW is actually fun, i love the way it works now, ill be quite happy with simply more reputation for faction, dont want any "insta win" buttons, as that to me would spoil half the fun, the doubt about whether or not you can win :p

corpse looting is a bad idea, considering how many times you die in pvp you could end up effectively loosing everything in your inventory, which wouldnt be very fun (and could also be frustrating if you've just gotten a really good item, but not high level enough to use it yet), also it would probably conflict with the soulbound/binds when picked up etc system in place at the moment...

i reckon they should go ahead with the "honour and dishonour" points, honour for a fairish fight, ie killing people same level or above, dishonour for killing people way below your level (ganking in effect, very frustrating walking to a quest at lvl 20 in redridge being body camped by lvl 40's who can chase you on their mounts...."
 

Lakashnik

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Ormorof said:
camlann was a pile of crap though... this is the starting experience of camlann....

START:

create character! rawr going to be an evil wizard!

start in camelot hills (as a briton), to get /level gear easier

walk to camelot after becoming a level 5 elementalist (with /level)

become a fearsome wizard!

get beginner gear

leave camelot

MEZZED!!!!!! STUNNED!!! KILLED!!!

Ormie was just killed by a fg of lvl 50's camping camelot gates.......



whereas pvp server on WoW is actually fun, i love the way it works now, ill be quite happy with simply more reputation for faction, dont want any "insta win" buttons, as that to me would spoil half the fun, the doubt about whether or not you can win :p

corpse looting is a bad idea, considering how many times you die in pvp you could end up effectively loosing everything in your inventory, which wouldnt be very fun (and could also be frustrating if you've just gotten a really good item, but not high level enough to use it yet), also it would probably conflict with the soulbound/binds when picked up etc system in place at the moment...

i reckon they should go ahead with the "honour and dishonour" points, honour for a fairish fight, ie killing people same level or above, dishonour for killing people way below your level (ganking in effect, very frustrating walking to a quest at lvl 20 in redridge being body camped by lvl 40's who can chase you on their mounts...."


lol. i concur.
the corpse looting i think is a bad idea. but maybe getting a small amount of xp or being able to get a little money from pvping? nothing substantial so u have to do the quests anyway which imo are fun (u would need to anyway to get some nice items unless ur uber rich)
but just a little reward like a few copper from each kill and a lil xp.
 

Fedaykin

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i personally really like DAOC's realm abilities system, yes it offers an incentive for those who dedicate themselves more to the game

exactly how it should be

why should a guy who has been playing 5 days be on the same footing as someone playing for 50

without RA's any necro powerlevelled infiltrator would be as powerful as someone who had been playign their inf since the start
 

Platin

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Instead of who has the highest rr, it will come down to who has the best uber-l33t gear.

Toa anyone?
 

Fana

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Fedaykin said:
why should a guy who has been playing 5 days be on the same footing as someone playing for 50

Why not? Although in reality he wouldnt, even without RA's and ranks, since the guy whos been playing 50 days would know his class inside and out, what works and what doesnt, and be much more adaptive to unexpected situations.
I dont see anything wrong giving everyone near equal mechanical advantage. Its what i love about WoW pvp atm - if i face someone roughly my level i know he wont be able to wtfpwn me because of weird abilities he has aquired by no other virtue than spending tons of time in front of the screen. He can still wtfpwn me, and probably will if he is more experienced or a better strategist, but thats fine.
I pray there will be no "IWIN" buttons in WoW :/
 

old.Tohtori

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I'd like to see rewards for being evil.

You know, become a notorious grey ganker, get evil armor, be KOA for all :p

Or such...
 

Behmoth

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Fedaykin said:
i personally really like DAOC's realm abilities system, yes it offers an incentive for those who dedicate themselves more to the game

exactly how it should be

why should a guy who has been playing 5 days be on the same footing as someone playing for 50

without RA's any necro powerlevelled infiltrator would be as powerful as someone who had been playign their inf since the start

because sad losers who spend 24/7 on a game pwn everything.I have a job kids, missus and play sports which take up the majority of my time. but i still want to have a chance to compete. Ra's don't equal better player just one who has the most ammount of time. With no RA's = the better play win 90% of the time .RA's= students with 24/7 hours to spare win.


ps using students as an example because they have nothing to do all day
 

Tomtefan

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Behmoth said:
because sad losers who spend 24/7 on a game pwn everything.I have a job kids, missus and play sports which take up the majority of my time. but i still want to have a chance to compete. Ra's don't equal better player just one who has the most ammount of time. With no RA's = the better play win 90% of the time .RA's= students with 24/7 hours to spare win.


ps using students as an example because they have nothing to do all day

Congratulations on stating that you have other intrests as well, I guess that's nice for you but how about this metaphor?

You say you 'play sports' so going by your reasoning you should be whining that you aren't (And if you are then well... Guess why you dont have enough time) playing your chosen sport at the highest possible level... I mean you are after all dedicating some time to it (!!1)

Just because you dont have the time to keep up with the other players doesn't mean that the system should be catered to you, but of course everyone who isn't like you are no-life losers \o/

Your statement feels kinda like saying 'People, I live my life like everyone should live their lives, the rest of you just suck and should adapt to my demands'.

NEWSFLASH: People are allowed to play as much as they want and they should at least be able to gain something from their time spent compared to none of these 'non-nolifelosers' who only plays x hours a week but still expect to have the same competetive ability as someone who plays xx hours a week (Note: xx is a larger number then 30 in this case).
 

Whisperess

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Fedaykin said:
without RA's any necro powerlevelled infiltrator would be as powerful as someone who had been playign their inf since the start
Powerful, perhaps. Skilled, you kidding me?

There are tons of tricks you can use to give you the upper hand in fights. Knowing all the "tricks in the book" and inventing new ones should be what counts, not new abilities that are only available if you play said class for ages.

Some of us like to have many characters; and ending up at a (huge in respect to daoc) disadvantage from the get-go sucks.
 

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