what is a fair fight ?

[Muylaetrix]

imho, numbers have nothing to do with fairness.

people seem to cry bloody murder over fighting with 8 vs 10 but seem to find it perfectly acceptable to run with a group who`s totall combined rp tops 50 Million over a group who`s totall rp is below 2mill rp...

Some high RR casters and tanks can run around solo and win most fights against 2-3 opponents with ease.

imho, numbers only form A MINOR part of the equation that says if a fight is fair.

Other factors (classes, setup, RR, templates, player quality,... ) have a much bigger impact than the number of players on each side.

 

[swords]

A fair fight is one in which both numbers and average RR are relatively equal, thus the major determining factor in the outcome is who plays better (ie, uses their abilitys better, better teamwork and communication).

 

[Darzil]

It's why I'm hoping the talk of a points system for balancing fights in WAR works somehow.

Darzil

 

[Muylaetrix]

It's why I'm hoping the talk of a points system for balancing fights in WAR works somehow.

Darzil

if that means only insta rvr, i am not even gone bother buying it.

I like the huge map, anything goes aspect of daoc.

 

[Andrilyn]

There's no such thing as a fair fight in DAoC, Class difference, RR, RA setup, ML lines, amount of abilities up when the fight starts etc etc.
Not even a 1v1 is a fair fight, if you wanted a fair fight you need to fight the exact same class you are playing with the exact same template and same RA's up and basically just a copy of yourself.

 

[censi]

there might not be such as thing as a "fair" fight in daoc.

There are certainly "fun" fights though.

 

[Mr Jolly SC]

Most fights are not fair in my opinion either you jump them or they jump you.

Life ain't fair and neither is this game, for me it is just a question of maximising your advantage and minimising theirs.

 

[liloe]

Someone on the friar VN boards expressed it like that:

"Friars are quite balanced now, there is hardly any oponent who can kill me in a 1 on 1"

=)

 

[censi]

dont think friars are too bad.

but tbh I dont think theres like a high RR solo specialst one kicking around so im really not sure just how tough they can be.

static tempest, ip, and annoying heal proc and decent damage is how I see them.

 

[Basic_X]

TBH - a fair right is when both sides got 50% chance of death and survival - no matter numbers - Specs, classes, equipment and so on.

so when a rr6 sorc + rr5 BB uses purge on a solo bard just to mezz, stun and lifetap the crap out of me it aint fair

 

[Vladamir]

I find it funny how a zerger doesn't understand how variance in numbers in groupmembers can determine a fight

 

[Alhanna]

It's only fair Hib vs Hib or Mid vs Mid or Alb vs Alb. When Hib vs Alb or Mid vs Alb occurs its then Easy vs Hard mode, or so I have been told

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Obviously nothing is 100% fair ever. Not anywhere. The fairness ppl talk about is that it is more "fair" fighting 1v1 then 4v1.

Some classes are also obviously very overpowered, as in they abide other "rules" then the rest of the classes. One exampel is pre nerf savages. Having a tank that do more dmg and having more defence then other equvilants in the same realm and in others are gamebreaking and unfair.

 

[Bondoila]

It's only fair Hib vs Hib or Mid vs Mid or Alb vs Alb. When Hib vs Alb or Mid vs Alb occurs its then Easy vs Hard mode, or so I have been told

Not a brilliant person that have told you that then . Albion can make the best caster groups by far. Also when it comes to 1v1 fight albion got the best option (reaver,merc,arms)

 

[Thlauni]

A fair 1vs1 fight is when both persons only use bows ! Whenever the other starts to run towards me, cast magic at me or even hit me with a big axe it starts to become unfair and terrible messy with lurikeen all over the place.

 

[crispy]

If you want a good indicator of a fair fight you could look at how long the fight lasts, and how many abilities are used over that time. At least this is the case for FG fights.

Its very flawded still, but thoose two factors have alot to do how fair a fight have been imo.

 

[illu]

What makes a fair fight?
In a 1on1 - I think the chance that both sides may win and the winner walks away with 10% health.
In a 1-on-many, I think the RR TOTAL should be roughly the same of the opponents vs enemy
In a FG vs FG, I think a fight where both suffer casualties, recover, and then eventually run out of power and then whoever has that little bit extra wins, is fair.
In caster v caster, I think in/around/on bridge fights are pretty even as range is negated-ish. On open land albs have the range, and hibs have the ridiculous baseline stun nuke combo (not fair :>).
In zerg vs zerg, one side steamrolling the other, and then a few minutes later, themselves being zerged - is fair.

For everything else, life isn't fair, so live with it :>

Oli - Illu

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

In caster v caster, I think in/around/on bridge fights are pretty even as range is negated-ish. On open land albs have the range, and hibs have the ridiculous baseline stun nuke combo (not fair :>).

And mids have insta-nuke and insta-lifetap casters

 

[Coldbeard]

depends, i'd say it's a fight where no third part interferes and both parts are fighting at their greatest strenght

 

[Stallion]

well fair fight is a kinda useless expression imo.

Id rather ask myself, whats a fair player cause thats where you get the fair fights regardless of RAs, class, etc.

is zerging/adding down your opponent cause you have no other way of beating him a fair way of playing?

And dont give me the crap about high rr beeing unfair, since its what most ppl aim for and is in a way the reward of playing smarter, better then your opponents (ofc this isnt always the case).

If I may take you as a thread starter as an example. Ask yourelf, why arent you running solo (lets play with the tought that you havent been outnumbered that evening).

I think the answers to that question kinda gvies you a good answer if your a fair player or not.

I dont think realmrank does much really for a solo caster, cant speak for the meleers out there as I dont have enough experience. But as a caster you can counter basicly any RA or opponent by keeping your range / running away / picking a better spot to fight -> and if it fails, you can 'usaly' get a second chance (after getting out alive) where hopefully if your not a complete idiot, you have learned from the first time about what to do, or that your opponents timered abilities are down.

Id say a fair person plays to outplay others based on his own individual supremacy. If you cant outplay your opponent and you bring external help, well then it just isnt fair anymore. RAs / artifact timers / CLs do play a big part of the game, but they can all be calulated and countered, whilst a players personal tactics or general way of playing cannot (atleast not so easy).

I could say that as an enchanter, its so unfair by beeing almost the only caster in the game without a spell over 1,5 k range. if im a fair player you will see me adapt to this and bite the soure apple if I cannot. I surely wont bring friends if I died in a 'fair' way. A way following the rules of the game. These class differences are part of daoc so daoc isnt really fair. But since you know your own arsenal of tools and your opponents this is kinda irrelevant if your out to solo or play fair. You play after what is given to you. Once you reach for external help, well then its unfair imo.

my 2 cents

 

[Asha]

Ofc there is imbalances in any fight. 2fg vs 1fg is usually a forgone conclusion.

I don't care about debates about high rr/low rr/blah blah blah.

I care when a fg of my "realm mates" add into a fg vs fg fight when we dont want or need their help. I care when a fg of enemies adds into my fg vs fg fight when we're fight ppl higher rr than us to start and I am quite sure the group we're fighting doesn't want them to add.

This is just another bs excuse to add imo.

Bottom line is that everyone is rp horny and that is the sole reason they add/zerg.

It's like irvr this weekend. The mids/hibs didn't want fair fights... they wanted to farm albies. So it was an add-fest. People say go agramon but for what? No one is there if there are albs to farm.

 

[Imon]

I think the fair fights ppl are talking about here on forum is when they win and their opponents lose, else its unfair

 

[Raven]

in many ways i agree with the thread starter a high RR heavy tank vs a low RR stealther for instance is only ever going to go one way, i actually welcome low RR people to team against me (not your useless rog caster mini grps ofc, they are just retarded)
what isnt a "fair fight" is idiots at high RR that think they can only win by outnumbering the enemy so do indeed zerg everything down, its a shame really, i bet if half of them put thier mind to it they could learn thier toon and enjoy the challenge.

 

[Golena]

DAoC is actually very much like a game or Rock - Paper - Scissors.

The skill should be in making sure that if your playing a "Rock" that you run into the "Scissor" classes. That sort of goes out the window when people stand around /bow'ing at each other however which is why I think this practice hurts the game far more than it improves it.

A fair fight doesn't start when 1 person swings their sword at the other person, it starts when you click on the door of the keep and start moving through the frontier. A perfect example is a caster fight, in which a large percentage of the time will be won by who spots the other one coming. In this case the fight is half won before the first spell is cast, yet people here still seem to fail to grasp this and think /bow is how a fight "should" start.

If people wanted "fair" fights of that type, try doing /duel challenge at your border keeps. Sure you don't get realm points from it but your guaranteed an add free fight. The fun of fighting in the frontiers is the action surrounding the fight, not just the /stick 1212121212 that occurs during it. The challenge of soloing as a heavy tank should also be in finding the fights, not just in mashing your front positional at the squishy target infront of you.

I'm not saying that means we should all add on each other in every circumstance, but boating 2ft from the enemy bridge and getting zerged down means you played the first part of the fight badly, not that the enemy are retarded.

 

[swords]

Whats all this /bowing each other BS? that doesn't happen, you roam and sometimes you see inc and get the mez off, sometimes you get it in the back. Thats fair enough in an 8v8 and it makes it exciting, what sucks is fighting for 2mins against a good enemy group, realy giving it your all, killing 1-2 and just going to that push to finish the job when...some cocktards come steaming in, kill your support and fuck you over.

 

[Golena]

Bottom line is that everyone is rp horny and that is the sole reason they add/zerg.

I think you've actually come closer to the truth than you probably realise here..

EVERYONE is rp horny, the reason in these cases you often don't want adds is because they are stealing some of the realm points you would of got. I know i've been yelled at for adding by high RR groups in the past while they steamroll the last member of a RR2 group. Now i'm not "destroying their fair fight" they've already had that and are now mashing with 8 people on the last 2 unbuffed, half dead tanks from the enemy group.. It would be like 5 people zerging a soloer whining because I made it 6. It's actually all about the fact that they got 30 rp's less for the last tank they killed, not about destroying a fair fight at all.

 

[Golena]

Whats all this /bowing each other BS? that doesn't happen.

It doesn't in 8v8 no.. it does in the 1v1 dueling circles that people seem to think are such a fantastic idea.

 

[Coldbeard]

So many Golena-type posts in this thread

 

[Gahn]

Sure it isn't an rr1 zerker that needs to ip and get help from a runie to kill an rr5 shade, hi Slirre :/

 

[Asha]

That is an old arguement. With some ppl I am sure it's true. With the ppl I have grouped with over the years it simply isn't. The fact is - it takes away from the fun of the fight, no matter if you add at the middle or end. I am not claiming fg ppl are better or more noble than others, but it's really frustrating to ruin 16 ppls fun for....rps...