What do people think about this?

Rubber Bullets

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Uncle Sick said:
... and you would entrust a 10 year old with a car, would you?
You just shot your argument, Throd. :p


You wouldn't give a ten year old the keys to your car and get them to go do the shopping, but I have nephews who live on a farm who have been driving on their private road since before they were ten, under supervision. They've also been shooting, as their father and grandfather before them since an early age too.

Oh and BTW, pump action action shotgun?? Are you looking at the same clip as me? That gun is single barrel single shot, infact I doubt very much it is even a 12-bore, from the size and noise it is far more likely to be a 16- or 20-bore, with lighter shot load and recoil. The stock had also been cut down and a pad put on it to make it more suitable for a child.

Danya said:
What's to stop the kid throwing a tantrum and shooting the supervisor?

In a word, education.

If kids grow up around guns then it is vital that they learn gun safety from as early an age as possible. The result if they don't is the kid a couple of months ago who shot his brother in the head as part of a game.

Guns are clearly not to everyones taste, though anyone on here who has ever enjoyed Quake, Doom, Halflife or any FPS can hardly deny some knowledge of the pleasure of blowing something away with the largest gun available.

Guns can be used quite innocently, and can bring huge enjoyment, they can also be used to bring tragedy and sorrow, one part of the difference is good education.

RB
 

throdgrain

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Indeed RB I tried to point out that was a single barrel 410 shotgun in my last post but one, but unfortunately editted my own post whilst a bit pissed and buggered it up :)
As for "he may have a tatrum and shoot his dad" just laughable tbh :)
 

Uncle Sick

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Well, just like abortion, faith and fetishism a topic that will make opinionated people clash.

Pump action or single barrel shotgun? What's the difference really? One shot is enough to kill or maim someone for life. *shrugs*
 

old.Tohtori

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Sick you got a point in "dropping it and it going off", but with "throwing a tantrum and shooting daddy", it could as well happen with knives, bricks, baseball bats...

If you get the point.
 

old.Tohtori

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Uncle Sick said:
I never said that. No really. Go and find that quote in one of my posts. :p

Oh crap. I hate it when you're right...

It was Danya actually...

*shamed Seel*
 

TdC

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I too agree with the dropping of the rifle thing, but a decent teacher would not allow a pupil to use such a thing as an automatic until said pupil was good and ready for it.
in the video the teacher is allowing the kid to use an -imo- too highly powered shooter hence the child being knoched to the ground by the recoil.

my nephew used to shoot pistols at the european level of competition and he has a daughter. I know that the girl knows about the guns and gun safety, but she has never seen a loaded weapon because he will not load the guns in the house and she's not old enough to get into the course where he practises. in order to keep his license he has to keep weapons and amunition in separate safes in his house and he does so.

the thing I don't really like about this is that I know for a fact that nothing is beyond a child to do. I know that he has told her that the amunition safe is utterly off-limits and I believe that she will hold to this. I also know what the power of curiosity and pressure by other kids is like. I am sure that nothing will ever happen, but there is the simple chance. I just don't like him having the tools in the house.
 

Chilly

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Kids dont get enough real training from a young enough age imho. A child of 10 can drive a car, probably not very safely, but if you start teaching them about the basics at a young age, they will never forget. I have never forgotten loads of silly things I was taught when i was <10 years old. I think if a person is going to be handling a gun, then the earlier tht they start training in the safety and use the better. Why not let that kid shoot at ducks out in a field? He's being supervised and its a single shot shotgun so there is no chance of it going off after he drops it.

That kid will probably grow up to be an expert shot with many guns and know how to safely handle firearms in general. His dad probably keeps his guns locked away and only lets his boy shoot when under direct supervision.

I admit that its probably not ideal for him using a gun that powerful especially since he is thrown to the ground, but it builds up strength and teaches him to handle powerful weapons from a young age.

As most have pointed out - as long as safety is taught rigorously, I see no real problem with it.
 

leggy

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Fucking ridiculous point really.

The car analogy is just plain retarded. At some point in your life you will most likely need a car most days to go about your life. When exactly will you ever NEED a fucking gun?

I mean it may come in handy if you were robbed at gun point. You could shoot him in the back when he tries to run off with your purse. But how likely is that?
 

Gumbo

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I think I was a tiny bit older than this when I started shooting, but only by a year or so. I had a little folding 410, and I think that the gun in that vid might be a slightly higher calibre than that as I'm sure my 410 didn't have that much of a kick. My grandfather taught me to shoot, I wasn't allowed to pick up the gun until I'd passed a written exam he set, and basic safety was drilled into me so much so that I don't recall ever being ticked off for a breach of the rules, as they were drummed into me so hard.

I don't shoot a lot anymore, indeed I haven't used my shottie for a couple of years, I'm limited to the odd rabbit cull every now and again and the shottie is just too messy on the lawn for that.

My criticism of the vid would really be that the lad is too small for the weapon, he's likely to hurt himself, or at the least get too tense as he expects the big kick, to ever become a good shot. If you're in an environment where guns abound, you might aswell be taught from an early age, correct procedures, and respect for them.
 

throdgrain

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Leggy mate, its not always about what you need, its also about what you want.
This is the crux of my problem re current thinking about guns. I dont need to justiy whether or not I shoot to you or anyone else.
I dont care what anyone thinks about guns, its thier right as much as what I think is my right. I want to shoot, and so I will. Its about civil liberties more than anything.

Off topic I know sorry :)
 

Uncle Sick

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I would say that this report from the University of Michigan should be credible enough...

Guns + kids = bad things waiting to happen. Fact.

Read my earlier post, Throd. I had fun shooting myself back in my army days and I am actually tempted to get a rifle for target practice again - I just don't see why children under the age of 15 should be exposed to a deadly accident in waiting.
 

throdgrain

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Uncle Sick said:
I would say that this report from the University of Michigan should be credible enough...

Guns + kids = bad things waiting to happen. Fact.

Read my earlier post, Throd. I had fun shooting myself back in my army days and I am actually tempted to get a rifle for target practice again - I just don't see why children under the age of 15 should be exposed to a deadly accident in waiting.

With the greatest respect.
Who the fuck do you think you are? Read your earlier post??
So you fired some guns? So have I. That doesnt give me or you the right to tell anyone else how to behave. Jesus.
 

throdgrain

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ps ,sorry if that comes over aggressive, its not my intention, but jeez get a grip man :)
 

Healer McHeal

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if i remember correctly, isn't it illegal to own even a air rifle under the age of 14 in the uk? and not allowed to buy one untill 16 or 18, i cant remember totally, but they were something like that.
 

leggy

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I think you misread me Throd. I know the difference is that people personally WANT to shoot.

I just thought it was a terrible analogy.

In all honesty I dont care if someon shoots their gun off in the woods at a few rabbits or not. If you act in a responsible manner I have no problem. If they however act the goat putting anyone in the vicinity in danger I would take the gun from them and bash them on the head with it. I aer hard!
 

throdgrain

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Healer McHeal said:
if i remember correctly, isn't it illegal to own even a air rifle under the age of 14 in the uk? and not allowed to buy one untill 16 or 18, i cant remember totally, but they were something like that.

Do you know how old I am sonny?




(I love ya leggy, return to xatrix immediately :( )
 

Uncle Sick

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throdgrain said:
ps ,sorry if that comes over aggressive, its not my intention, but jeez get a grip man :)

Hehe... well, sorry if me being an opinionated bastard bothers you.
It's just plain old simple my (let me emphasize that - my) opinion that kids below a certain age shouldn't handle a possibly lethal weapon.
 

Danya

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throdgrain said:
Leggy mate, its not always about what you need, its also about what you want.
This is the crux of my problem re current thinking about guns. I dont need to justiy whether or not I shoot to you or anyone else.
I dont care what anyone thinks about guns, its thier right as much as what I think is my right. I want to shoot, and so I will. Its about civil liberties more than anything.

Off topic I know sorry :)
Why should you have the right to lethal weapons? Guns have no purpose other than to kill things, why should you have a right to that?
 

throdgrain

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Danya said:
Why should you have the right to lethal weapons? Guns have no purpose other than to kill things, why should you have a right to that?

Attitudes like this are what make me think of not voting Labour, after all these years.
I dont need a nanny state, or indeed nanny Danya to tell me what to do, what to own or how to live my life. If some people had thier way we would be stopped from doing anything , then wrapped up in cotton wool. Then someone would eat some cotton wool and die, so they would ban that too.
Heh, Ill go further. If I had my way I would repeal the law banning handguns, and allow them to permit holders for self-defence.
 

Tom

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Agree totally Throd. Its why I'll never be voting for Labour. What next, circular poll cards so you don't poke your skin with the corner?
 

Danya

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throdgrain said:
Attitudes like this are what make me think of not voting Labour, after all these years.
I dont need a nanny state, or indeed nanny Danya to tell me what to do, what to own or how to live my life. If some people had thier way we would be stopped from doing anything , then wrapped up in cotton wool. Then someone would eat some cotton wool and die, so they would ban that too.
Heh, Ill go further. If I had my way I would repeal the law banning handguns, and allow them to permit holders for self-defence.
Guns kept for self defence are far more likely to be used on a family member (accidentally), or by an intruder to shoot the gun owner. That's not a good reason to keep them. Besides, it's illegal to shoot someone who breaks into your home in this country.
I can buy the sport shooting thing, but if you just want them for blowing people's heads off that's total BS. It's that sort of thinking that got them banned in the first place.

FWIW I wouldn't vote labour either; not wanting guns easily available doesn't make me a labour supporter.

The question with civil liberties is, where do you draw the line? Why stop at guns, let people keep RPGs too, they might be great fun to shoot (not ever shot an RPG myself to know). Hell, why stop there, let people drive around in tanks for self-defence or purchase nuclear missiles.
I think we'll all agree that nukes are not something for the householder, but what of the other things? At some point things go from being ok for the populace to have to being not ok. My personal stance is that guns shouldn't be something people keep in their homes. You may disagree, fair enough, but I don't see how me not wanting people getting shot means I've lost my grip on reality. Frankly, it's a pretty fucked up world where wanting people to not get shots means you're a loony.
 

Ch3tan

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The right to own a gun, does not imply that it should be kept in your home.

Allowing ownership and proper regulation will help stop blackmarket sales of guns and their increased use by criminals. IMO.
 

Tom

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Danya said:
left-wing nonsense

Knives probably kill more people than guns. Gonna ban those as well?

AFAIK its not illegal to shoot somebody in your home, there is no law against it. If some burglar decides to break in and wander around with a view to attacking me, and I own a gun, then I'm sorry but that guy is going down. Provided you don't shoot them in the back as they're running away, or through a door, you're not going to get in trouble.

Anyhow, how would the burglar gain access to your weapon? Its locked in a safe, the ammo kept elsewhere. This country isn't like the USA where you can keep a gun in a drawer.

Fact - guns are fun
Fiction - guns should be banned

If some people had their way, motor racing would be banned, fishing would be illegal, flying a Kestrel would be illegal, keeping a pet would require a license....etc

How about some people just accept that they can't enforce their misguided opinions upon others, merely because they find some things distasteful?
 

throdgrain

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Actually I think you'll find that if handguns were allowed back to licensed owners , and someone broke into your house and threatened you ,you quite probably would be able to use it to defend yourself. Certainly, with the recent thing about self defence in the home it was claimed that if someone broke into my house and rushed up my stairs towards me, and I grabbed one of my airguns and shot him in the face with it, that would be considered self defence. If however I put a whole magazine of 8 shots into him the police might look at it differently :)
However, I would be happy for the law to be changed again so that licensed owners could own hand guns for recreational target shooting, and also for defence of the home.
You could say that would be dangerous, but all the gun crime at the moment is by criminals with unlicensed guns, and that is prcatically nothing to do with responsible adult gun owners anyway.
 

throdgrain

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Tom said:
How about some people just accept that they can't enforce their misguided opinions upon others, merely because they find some things distasteful?


Spot on. Stop telling me what to bloody do !
 

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