What decides how and how hard you hit?

[Miramis]

Troll savage with 25 specs in hammer compared to the same class
and race with 25 in h2h. Will the h2h hit more often or will the hammer?
What does more damage, and how do you calculate what kind of damage you will do?

Erm.. messy I know.. but please, any advice and recomendations welcomed

 

[Basic_X]

That question involves mathematics - waay more math then im ever able to understand. im sure someone here got some infos on it tho

 

[atos]

Ofc the h2h will hit more offen. After all we are talking mainhand and offhand here. Which means h2h will swing 50% than hammer. Weaponskill from h2h is generally lower than 2h hammer spec, due to the increased amount of swings you will dish out.

 

[Bahumat]

If you were to match the characters exactly you would only have the following differences, weapons spec and weapon skill

the 2hand has higher weapon skill, its used to increase your chance to hit and also your dmg (i think). The 2hand weapons have a natural 25% additional dmg because you are attacking slower and you leave yourself open to attack.

H2H has less weapon skill but you attack faster and also with 2 weapons, your off hand has its own maths to determine if both hands hit.

I will use some rough figures;
2hand hits for 500dmg every hit

h2h main hand hits for 350 dmg and off hand for 150

as you can see, if the h2h hits with both weapons he does the same dmg...per 1 attack.

a H2H or duel wield class wont hit with both hands on every hit so you may think "oh im doing less dmg". However a dmg log would look something like this

10 second's of melee
2hand hits for 500
2hand hits for 500
2hand hits for 500 - total 1500dmg

a H2H 10 seconds of Melee
Main hand 350
Off hand 150
============
Main hand 350
Off hand does not hit
============
Main hand 350
Off hand 150
============
Main hand 350
Off hand does not hit

The total is 1700

Conclusion

H2H will do more dmg than 2hand over a period of time. Maths can argue this point but i dont have test data to use.

The chance to hit depends on your opponent, a shield class has a better chance to block a 2hand wpn than 2 single weapons (receive 25% penalty to block)

iirc a 2hand has a higher chance to hit because your attack speed is slower and your weapon skill is higher.

 

[Miramis]

Yay, good info there. Thank you very much!!

 

[Ithilkir]

Thanks peeps

Was me asking Miramis the question but stuck at work so couldn't ask on the forum.

I'd read somewhere that strength affects crushing damage and a combo of str/dex affected slashing and dex affected err.. piercing/thrusting. So wasn't sure on the best route for my Savage. I respecced him from h2h to hammers at level 20, but am now finding the specials are a bit weak with hammers for solo play as I need to be in awkward positions or to block an attack (difference between block and parry?). So was wondering on the best route for when I get closer to 40 for my final respec (33 just now.. Zzzzz).

 

[Bahumat]

slash, crush, sword, hammer, blunt, blades, 2hand is all 100% str (yes even 2hand thrust)

pierce, 1hand thrust is 50/50 str/dex

grr gotta leave to catch train, spear and polearm is 100% str too. im missing another wpn line cant reemmeber

 

[Ithilkir]

Ah, so if I was to use the slashing h2h weapons (moon fangs) i'd get a nice bonus over using the thrusting ones.

grrr.... wish I'd left h2h on the character now.

 

[Lomme]

Ah, so if I was to use the slashing h2h weapons (moon fangs) i'd get a nice bonus over using the thrusting ones.

grrr.... wish I'd left h2h on the character now.

No, both slash and thrust h2h weapons are based on str/dex.

slash, crush, sword, hammer, blunt, blades, 2hand is all 100% str (yes even 2hand thrust)

pierce, 1hand thrust is 50/50 str/dex

grr gotta leave to catch train, spear and polearm is 100% str too. im missing another wpn line cant reemmeber

Spear in Mid is STR/DEX, while Celtic Spear on Heroes is pure STR.
And you're missing Flexing(STR/DEX), Staff(DEX) and Shield(DEX).(Edit: Forgot Schytes, which are STR.)

Personally I would go h2h if I were to make a Savage. The styles look cooler(imo), some nice stun styles, and the chance to make tripple/quad hits etc.

 

[Lomme]

Thanks peeps

Was me asking Miramis the question but stuck at work so couldn't ask on the forum.

I'd read somewhere that strength affects crushing damage and a combo of str/dex affected slashing and dex affected err.. piercing/thrusting. So wasn't sure on the best route for my Savage. I respecced him from h2h to hammers at level 20, but am now finding the specials are a bit weak with hammers for solo play as I need to be in awkward positions or to block an attack (difference between block and parry?). So was wondering on the best route for when I get closer to 40 for my final respec (33 just now.. Zzzzz).

Oh, and Blocking is with a shield, while Parrying is with a weapon.

 

[fl3a]

i would just like to ask, where do you get the info about savages having higher ws with 2h than they do with h2h? because, at least to my knowledge, it is incorrect

 

[Lomme]

i would just like to ask, where do you get the info about savages having higher ws with 2h than they do with h2h? because, at least to my knowledge, it is incorrect

A troll would have slightly more WS with a 2hander, than with h2h. All other races should have less.

 

[Bahumat]

No, both slash and thrust h2h weapons are based on str/dex.

Spear in Mid is STR/DEX, while Celtic Spear on Heroes is pure STR.
And you're missing Flexing(STR/DEX), Staff(DEX) and Shield(DEX).(Edit: Forgot Schytes, which are STR.)

Personally I would go h2h if I were to make a Savage. The styles look cooler(imo), some nice stun styles, and the chance to make tripple/quad hits etc.

i was in a rush :-( also i missed out Axe which iirc is 100% str

 

[Reno]

i was in a rush :-( also i missed out Axe which iirc is 100% str

And the Large Weapon line ( 100% str).

Danita

 

[Ctuchik]

Troll savage with 25 specs in hammer compared to the same class
and race with 25 in h2h. Will the h2h hit more often or will the hammer?
What does more damage, and how do you calculate what kind of damage you will do?

Erm.. messy I know.. but please, any advice and recomendations welcomed

silly question but why would a savage have only 25 weapon spec?

 

[Lomme]

silly question but why would a savage have only 25 weapon spec?

I'd guess it's because he's level 25.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

wow! Nice one bahumat

And there I was thinking that all you could think about was Teh Hoff

 

[Puppet]

A troll would have slightly more WS with a 2hander, than with h2h. All other races should have less.

With equal stats (say 350 STR for the 2Hander and the H2H one has 350 STR and 350 DEX so average 350 aswell) the H2H has a LOWER weaponskill then the 2H.

2H Weaponskill has been adjusted (lowered) a while ago, because 2H savages had close to pure tank-WS. Its still higher WS, but the difference is less now.

However, WS isnt everything, you also need to look at the growth-rates on the style, and the mechanics on the attacks. Dualwield, overtime, has higher DPS then 2H if you got equal WS.

Then add the fact savage H2H styles are far superiour (both in damage as in utility) and you will quickly notice that H2H puts out more DPS then 2H.

Only reason one should go 2H is to 'roleplay' for a reason, or because you are unable to style with more then 2 different styles (you shouldnt be playing a savage to begin with then).

Conclusion: H2H > 2H in damage, utility and such.

 

[Thegreatest]

silly question but why would a savage have only 25 weapon spec?

because he's just lvl 33

And H2H is the way to go, the abbility to triple or even quad hit makes you dish out way more damage compared to a 2 hander. It's also nice that your offhand can hit even when you miss a style, while you need to wait much longer with a 2 hander when you miss...Only pro I can see going 2 handed is if you've got capped quickness, a healer providing celerity and using your own haste which makes you swing your 2hander at capped 1.5sec speed.

 

[Bahumat]

wow! Nice one bahumat

And there I was thinking that all you could think about was Teh Hoff

Well the Hoff did teach me

 

[lpep]

someone did a test on us servers year maybe 2 years ago with every class..... 2 handed troll savage came out tops for dps over x amount of swings or maybe it was as set time cant remember... things 2 handed armsman was close second.....i'm sure someone will have the table still somewhere....