Question Whale Hunting?

[Trem]

You answered your first question with your second question.

No it didn't.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No it didn't.

If you think "wasps should be removed from planet", then it's equal to someone saying "all fuzzy and cute animals should be removed from the planet".

Locking every animal in cages and throwing down pavement, concrete and neon lights on every single forest is simply a larger wish.

YOU may think whales are worth saving, but that's not necessarily the opinion of the human race.

So if it's our planet and not mine, everyones opinion on the eradication should be counted.

Also, as an added point; Yes, technological and evolutionary advancement over other animals gives us just that, ruling over which species lives and dies.

 

[Trem]

If you think "wasps should be removed from planet", then it's equal to someone saying "all fuzzy and cute animals should be removed from the planet".

Locking every animal in cages and throwing down pavement, concrete and neon lights on every single forest is simply a larger wish.

YOU may think whales are worth saving, but that's not necessarily the opinion of the human race.

So if it's our planet and not mine, everyones opinion on the eradication should be counted.

Also, as an added point; Yes, technological and evolutionary advancement over other animals gives us just that, ruling over which species lives and dies.

No it doesn't, I said to get rid of the pointless creatures like wasps and ticks but again it was tongue in cheek.

As an added point to your argument, put 10 intelligent humans in a room with 10 dumb tigers and see who outsmarts who. Or doesn't that count in your eyes?

 

[old.Tohtori]

No it doesn't, I said to get rid of the pointless creatures like wasps and ticks but again it was tongue in cheek.

As an added point to your argument, put 10 intelligent humans in a room with 10 dumb tigers and see who outsmarts who. Or doesn't that count in your eyes?

Tongue in cheek or not, the point stands; if you want to get rid of one creature, it's the same as getting rid of the other. Only thing that changes is your own opinion on that creature(which with humans mostly goes to the cute/cool factor)

If 10 people get in the same room with 10 tigers unarmed and unprepared for those tigers, they are not intelligent humans.

We are the rulers of this planet until something else comes along, as such, we have the power and right to do what we want with the planet. Only thing that needs to be considered is what other humans want. (EDIT And what's good for humanity, living conditions etc.

 

[Trem]

Tongue in cheek or not, the point stands; if you want to get rid of one creature, it's the same as getting rid of the other. Only thing that changes is your own opinion on that creature(which with humans mostly goes to the cute/cool factor)

If 10 people get in the same room with 10 tigers unarmed and unprepared for those tigers, they are not intelligent humans.

We are the rulers of this planet until something else comes along, as such, we have the power and right to do what we want with the planet. Only thing that needs to be considered is what other humans want. (EDIT And what's good for humanity, living conditions etc.

The point does not stand.

Getting rid of a wasp or tick is not the same as getting rid of a whale, I see what you are saying but if we go back to the killing of whales how would the people who use their flesh etc survived back in the day? Would they of gone out on their wasp hunting trips armed with a rolled up leaf to fill up on their bounty of wasp fat? So you see there is a point to whales even if now we just like to look at them and not kill them. What I was trying to say was what is the point of wasps and I was hoping for someone to tell me what good they bring, I honestly was hoping for that.

Neither does your point about the 10 tigers, if humans are so intelligent surely they will simply think what to do, the tigers are unarmed as well and lets face it they can't throw a spear. Lets change that a little then put 10 people in the jungle with 5 tigers and give the people 10 days to get armed with what they can find/make and I still know who will get outsmarted.

Its easy to be all high and mighty while we sit in our brick houses but if it all came down to grass roots we would be fucked, every one of us, we had evolution on our side but fuck me it took long enough for us to claim we are king, if the animals evolved at the same rate we wouldn't be so smug until buildings and guns came along.

I have said it before but, fuck me toht you must be a total fucking nightmare to live with

 

[tris-]

trem, wasps in the ecosystem control the population of other insects. they can also be used for pest control by farmers.
they might also provide food for birds etc

 

[TdC]

trem, wasps in the ecosystem control the population of other insects. they can also be used for pest control by farmers.
they might also provide food for birds etc

so? more power to spiders! I don't have a problem with arachnids, but I fucking hate wasps

 

[Trem]

trem, wasps in the ecosystem control the population of other insects. they can also be used for pest control by farmers.
they might also provide food for birds etc

Well fuck me, I didn't know that. What insects do they eat though? I thought they just lived in bins and fed on my ice creams

 

[TdC]

they eat lots of mozzies apparently

 

[tris-]

Well fuck me, I didn't know that. What insects do they eat though? I thought they just lived in bins and fed on my ice creams

i dont know exactly which insects, but if the wasps didnt eat them, there would be a shit load more of them and then wed know about it all insects have some function, even if it is to be eaten by another one.

 

[old.Tohtori]

The point does not stand.

Getting rid of a wasp or tick is not the same as getting rid of a whale, I see what you are saying but if we go back to the killing of whales how would the people who use their flesh etc survived back in the day? Would they of gone out on their wasp hunting trips armed with a rolled up leaf to fill up on their bounty of wasp fat? So you see there is a point to whales even if now we just like to look at them and not kill them. What I was trying to say was what is the point of wasps and I was hoping for someone to tell me what good they bring, I honestly was hoping for that.

People in africa live partly off bee thingies, why? Because there's no whales.

If there were no whales, the people would live off seals, or polar bears, or fish, or ice cows. Looking at stuff isn't a "reason to exist", maybe someone else likes to watch wasps? Do YOU rule over what is important or "fun to look at"? If so, what happened to "our planet not mine"?

You missed the point by a mile though, it's wasn't about how useful one thing is or not, i said "if you want to get rid of one, it's equally bad as getting rid of other." You haven't said anything to even try and counter that.

Neither does your point about the 10 tigers, if humans are so intelligent surely they will simply think what to do, the tigers are unarmed as well and lets face it they can't throw a spear. Lets change that a little then put 10 people in the jungle with 5 tigers and give the people 10 days to get armed with what they can find/make and I still know who will get outsmarted.

Again, irrelevant. We have guns, houses and all those lovely trucks because we evolved to a point where we made them. Ergo; we rule over tigers.

Your example is as valid as saying "a nerd could beat up a boxer if the boxer didn't have any boxing experience".

Its easy to be all high and mighty while we sit in our brick houses but if it all came down to grass roots we would be fucked, every one of us, we had evolution on our side but fuck me it took long enough for us to claim we are king, if the animals evolved at the same rate we wouldn't be so smug until buildings and guns came along.

Yes, it is easy to be high and mighty. Why? Because we ARE in our brick houses and we ARE high and mighty.

We rule this planet and what you just said, is why. We evolved enough, took a while, but we did and now, we rule with our guns and brick houses.

I have said it before but, fuck me toht you must be a total fucking nightmare to live with

If you think people are unbearable and some kind of nightmares because they don't agree with you, you're a pompous arrogant f*ck.

Apologies for disagreeing with Mr Right.

 

[Trem]

If you think people are unbearable and some kind of nightmares because they don't agree with you, you're a pompous arrogant f*ck.

Apologies for disagreeing with Mr Right.

Again you missed the point.

It isn't just me is it though, you are the one who is always right in your mind and everyone else is wrong. I have never known someone on a forum to argue with so many people about so many subjects as you. Arrogance is something you have an abundance of it seems. I wonder how you became so god damn right in so many subjects all the time. You are like Stephen Hawking or something but then some, you must be a Super Hawking crossed with Einstein and the Hulk. I mean I doubt Hawking could argue for pages and pages of a thread about body odour as you did that time.

As has been suggested to me I reckon ignore is my best option with you I'm afraid.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I was civil, discussed things in clear fashion, made my points, yet that's all you can post?

And with that post, we're done.

 

[Yoni]

Its scenes like this which disturb me :|

 

[JBP|]

What I was trying to say was what is the point of wasps and I was hoping for someone to tell me what good they bring, I honestly was hoping for that.

Have you never tried Wasp milk?


Also i agree with Yoni, whales are totally rubbish for going water skiing with

 

[Kryten]

This is an argument that get as deep as you'd ever think with arguments from the sides of the law, morality, science, nature and more.

Many people, Greenpeace included (fucking terrorists!) would like to make you believe they're speaking entirely on behalf of nature. But, as was briefly mentioned, if you work entirely from the "nature POV", we as the dominant species would pretty quickly wipe out every species we come across, even before we start thinking about food and warmth.

Only when you start adding science into it do you start getting into breeding animals for food and other things.

However, *some* humans, by the design of our minds and emotions, have morals and beliefs guiding our course of actions, holding species as sacred, protected for food or resource reasons.

Then again with science do you start looking at culling etc. Is that morality? Are we not then just interfering with the natural way of things? It's amazing just how fucked up the food chain looks as soon as you take into account the humans.


Just opinions btw, not trying to give the impression I know or particularly care too much about the subject

 

[rynnor]

Its scenes like this which disturb me :|

Whereas this is ok?

 

[Trem]

Were the whales bred for that?

Were the cattle bred for that?

 

[rynnor]

Were the whales bred for that?

Were the cattle bred for that?

What difference does that make? If I bred children in my basement for eating would that make it ok?

 

[tris-]

What difference does that make? If I bred children in my basement for eating would that make it ok?

aslong as youre mentally ill you can do anything you set your mind on.

on a serious note though, it wouldnt be ok. its illegal for one thing. maybe in some other country it might be legal, but i dont know where that is.

 

[Trem]

What difference does that make? If I bred children in my basement for eating would that make it ok?

Because the cattle can be replaced because they are accounted for and meant for slaughter. The whales are not.

 

[rynnor]

Lol - my point was its an artificial distinction to worry about killing 1 mammal and not another just because one is kept for eating.

They both feel pain, suffer distress etc.

 

[Trem]

Lol - my point was its an artificial distinction to worry about killing 1 mammal and not another just because one is kept for eating.

They both feel pain, suffer distress etc.

I totally get your point and I see what you are getting at and I hate that humans do what they do but its the lesser of 2 evils to kill something that we can constantly replace because its monitored rather than kill kill kill until something is gone.

Honestly if I saw my burger getting killed I think I would not be able to eat it.

I know exactly what you mean, I really do.

 

[tris-]

They both feel pain, suffer distress etc.

how about this.

you can kill cattle pretty quickly with some kind of trauma to the brain (not sure what they use, maybe even massive electric shock right to the head?).

to kill a whale you have to harpoon that mother fucker in to next week, gash it open and drag it on board/to the coast while its still alive. not only is it bleeding to death but it can no longer breath.

im not a cow, and ive never been shot in the head or killed with electrocution, but it is probable it might not even know what the hell is going on and not feel any pain etc.

 

[rynnor]

Ah I wondered when someone would go down that track - but of course a slaughtered animals distress starts much earlier than the kill - crammed into a packed transport - forced into coridor's filled with the stench of death and hearing the distress of all the other animals around it until its time for the kill.

Hopefully its the old stun gun and bolt through the brain (though actually unless they are dead on this wont kill instantly) - its quite possible for it to totter around a bit before it expires.

If its unlucky its going to have a Halal/Kosher death - throat cut with its lungs drowning in its own blood as it slowly sinks into unconsciousness.

I'm a hypocrit too btw - I eat meat even though I find thinking about where it comes from un-pleasant - I just find it odd that we have such a selective view of our fellow mammals...

 

[Ch3tan]

I'd happily eat an animal I had killed or seen killed, however I think that there is a distinction between animals that are bred for food and those that are hunted for sport, "science", or food when not sustainable.

 

[rynnor]

I'd happily eat an animal I had killed or seen killed, however I think that there is a distinction between animals that are bred for food and those that are hunted for sport, "science", or food when not sustainable.

Where does the assumption that whale hunting couldnt be sustainable come from?

 

[Trem]

Where does the assumption that whale hunting couldnt be sustainable come from?

Because they can't be sustained easily, in fact I reckon it would be nigh on impossible.

If they could be sustained then your argument carries more weight.

Why kill something constantly that we don't need anymore? We don't need whales for make-up, margarine, etc.

 

[tris-]

Ah I wondered when someone would go down that track - but of course a slaughtered animals distress starts much earlier than the kill - crammed into a packed transport - forced into coridor's filled with the stench of death and hearing the distress of all the other animals around it until its time for the kill.

Hopefully its the old stun gun and bolt through the brain (though actually unless they are dead on this wont kill instantly) - its quite possible for it to totter around a bit before it expires.

If its unlucky its going to have a Halal/Kosher death - throat cut with its lungs drowning in its own blood as it slowly sinks into unconsciousness.

I'm a hypocrit too btw - I eat meat even though I find thinking about where it comes from un-pleasant - I just find it odd that we have such a selective view of our fellow mammals...

good points.

even taking all that in to account, something inside still tells me its not a good idea to keep killing something until it no longer exists though.
sadly for pigs and cows we can keep them alive forever, so its tough shit for them.

 

[old.Tohtori]

People think they're saving the nature etc just because they're saving the cute animals and think like, well, look above.

What they fail to realise every single time is that you effect the nature if you're trying to slaughter it, OR if you're trying to save it.

And since our existance on the planet, that FYI made us into what we are, is already effecting the nature, no one can have the clairvoyant skills to predict what our actions do.

Maybe we were meant to kill the whales out?

No?

Ofcourse not 'cause this planet is filled with flowers and lollipops.

Trem i can't believe you're defending killing cows over whales simply due to "we can keep on killing cows as we can make more".

We wouldn't NEED to kill any animal. Or build houses for that matter, we could easily live in caves. How about you move your family there? No? Like the comfy house? Thought so.