We're out!

[Job]

Britain isolated in Europe shout the headlines, little bit over the top, but we've been there before.

There's no frickin way we were going to hand over the city to Europe, they'd fuck it up in 10 minutes.
Give us everything or piss off they said..well piss of it is.
We've battled Europe before and have yet to lose.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Except in singing and porn.

 

[Job]

True, the the continentals do wipe the floor with us in singing competitions, and go on to dominate the music world with their acts...like ABBA...and.....
As for porn..less is more.

 

[old.Tohtori]

As for porn..less is more.

Yeah, but you lot take the less part way too far

 

[Deebs]

I think Cameron did the right thing and stand up to Germany and France. This time next year everyone in Europe will be speaking German

 

[Raven]

Anyone noticed that if you draw a little tash and colour her hair in, Merkel bears a striking resemblance to a certain historic German leader?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Would be fun sctually, though the swedes couldn't do it, russians couldn't do it, so i'm thinking perkele-language is gonna stick around.

Politics is so...well...i don't want to insult the mentally challenged by associating the popular name for the problem with politics...but yeah.

Anyone noticed that if you draw a little tash and colour her hair in, Merkel bears a striking resemblance to a certain historic German leader?

You can do this to anyone though, even if you draw it on winnie the pooh

 

[chipper]

I think Cameron did the right thing and stand up to Germany and France. This time next year everyone in Europe will be speaking German

this tbh it does seem to resemble events say 70 years ago cept this time its taking place at the negotiation tables, it seems to me germany is attempting to become top dog in europe with its little puppy france tucked neatly under its belly, id go as far to say its a targetted attack on the UK, they know we could never support such a proposition the public would never go for it, it would end up with us paying more tax and probably seeing very little growth in the meantime. there needs to be regulation on the banks but i dont see why we need some twat in brussels to tell us how to do it.

i honestly believe the uk would be hardest hit in this new treaty we are best left out of it, what it means for our involvment in the future i dont know but as far as i know it shouldnt mean us becoming a back bencher in brussels we will prob just lose some clout when it comes to european financial decisions.

 

[Embattle]

It was made clear that the UK would never accept a financial transaction tax, thus with it still in the treaty they've found the patsy they need when come the end of today another meeting ends without a strong enough agreement to appease the world.

 

[rynnor]

id go as far to say its a targetted attack on the UK, they know we could never support such a proposition the public would never go for it, it would end up with us paying more tax and probably seeing very little growth in the meantime.

This really - this was engineered to keep us out - the transaction tax does nothing to make Greece etc. suddenly live within their means but it was a clear weapon made to be wielded at the UK so that we could be blamed for discord and effectively sidelined.

I still cant see even the 17 Euro countries really agreeing though - no one seems to mention that you cant really have fiscal union without political union - i.e. the greater german empire...

 

[Raven]

It's win win for us. They tax banks, banks move to London.

 

[rynnor]

It's win win for us. They tax banks, banks move to London.

It was a tax on trading and there's precious little of that outside of London in Europe - thats why it was such a usefull weapon against the UK.

 

[Zarjazz]

This wasn't exactly a tough choice. They wanted to regulate and restrict more financial transactions (amongst other stuff of course) and since the City of London deals with over 80% of all those processed in Europe it was obviously not a good thing for the UK so no surprise at all that we should have nothing do with the rest of them.

 

[ECA]

This really - this was engineered to keep us out - the transaction tax does nothing to make Greece etc. suddenly live within their means but it was a clear weapon made to be wielded at the UK so that we could be blamed for discord and effectively sidelined.

I still cant see even the 17 Euro countries really agreeing though - no one seems to mention that you cant really have fiscal union without political union - i.e. the greater german empire...

More like a united states of europe - a superpower that can compete and keep the US in check - which is what has been happening for the last 20-30 years.

Seriously, we need to just be like "fuck dis shit holmes".

All we really want from europe are free trade agreements anyway, I don't really see why membership is necessary.



Oh and France/Germany have been wanting financial services restrictions for years, to try and fuck the role London has in the markets and move that business to frankfurt/paris.

 

[DaGaffer]

Good article in the Guardian about the Eurozone crisis and what it means to Scotland (or rather, the SNP's vision of Scotland). Speaking as someone living in another small celtic country; its becoming fairly clear to me that small countries without massive natural resources are going to have to accept that some other bigger "country" is going to control their destiny.

 

[rynnor]

I think the isolation has been overstated - 3 countries said no including the UK - 2 others said maybe that leaves 22 of which 17 are in the euro and are thus acting in their own self interest to drag other countries into their mess.

 

[DaGaffer]

I think the isolation has been overstated - 3 countries said no including the UK - 2 others said maybe that leaves 22 of which 17 are in the euro and are thus acting in their own self interest to drag other countries into their mess.

Actually its not that clear cut even within the 17; Ireland may have to have another referendum given the size of the changes to the Treaty. Of course Merkel and Sarkozy (and Delors and the rest of the Eurocrats) don't want to let pesky little details like democracy sideline their plans.

 

[Embattle]

The big Ed Miliband:

In a message on Twitter, Mr Miliband said: "Outcome at last night's EU summit was a sign of weakness from David Cameron - why did he fail to build alliances before the summit?"

In a further comment on Twitter, he said: "David Cameron should be building alliances. The UK went into the summit without them and the outcome showed we lacked influence."

Another statement from Labour that leaves me looking elsewhere for some reason.

 

[Deebs]

Actually its not that clear cut even within the 17; Ireland may have to have another referendum given the size of the changes to the Treaty. Of course Merkel and Sarkozy (and Delors and the rest of the Eurocrats) don't want to let pesky little details like democracy sideline their plans.

My understanding is that due to the UK and Hungary exercising their veto rights the Lisbon Treaty CANNOT be changed, the new plan is to create something else which the other countries can sign up to.

 

[rynnor]

Actually its not that clear cut even within the 17; Ireland may have to have another referendum given the size of the changes to the Treaty. Of course Merkel and Sarkozy (and Delors and the rest of the Eurocrats) don't want to let pesky little details like democracy sideline their plans.

I think there were a number of countries who were counting on the UK to object who didnt want to be singled out as objectors too tbh - these things are always much less clearcut than they appear on the surface.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think there were a number of countries who were counting on the UK to object who didnt want to be singled out as objectors too tbh - these things are always much less clearcut than they appear on the surface.

So you're saying that it might NOT be that europe is discriminating the UK, trying to force them out in a petty ww2 revenge and raping their goats? Shocking

 

[ECA]

So you're saying that it might NOT be that europe is discriminating the UK, trying to force them out in a petty ww2 revenge and raping their goats? Shocking

Trust me, they want our goats BAD.

 

[rynnor]

My understanding is that due to the UK and Hungary exercising their veto rights the Lisbon Treaty CANNOT be changed, the new plan is to create something else which the other countries can sign up to.

Yes but they have to be careful that whatever they do doesnt breach the lisbon treaty or it will all end up in court.

 

[DaGaffer]

My understanding is that due to the UK and Hungary exercising their veto rights the Lisbon Treaty CANNOT be changed, the new plan is to create something else which the other countries can sign up to.

Kind of my point about democracy. Annoyingly for Brussels, even if they draw up something new, if it affects national sovereignty (which it will), the wilful Irish (who are like the democratic concience of Europe these days) will demand a referendum. Everyone's sweeping that under the carpet at the moment.

 

[Chilly]

Kind of my point about democracy. Annoyingly for Brussels, even if they draw up something new, if it affects national sovereignty (which it will), the wilful Irish (who are like the democratic concience of Europe these days) will demand a referendum. Everyone's sweeping that under the carpet at the moment.

So? Ireland was forced to concede last time, no reason it wont happen again.

 

[DaGaffer]

So? Ireland was forced to concede last time, no reason it wont happen again.

The difference was last time the greedy fuckers were busy troughing on the EU gravy train. Ireland's love affair with Europe turned sour the day the ECB arrived and took all the free money away. And funnily enough the original Lisbon second vote debacle soured a lot of people towards Europe as well, expecially as the "yes" vote hung on the fear of financial disaster; it would be bloody difficult to sell that particular line again.

Biggest concern I'm seeing on Irish forums is that there was a court judgement a couple of years back which could give the Irish government a loophole not to have a referendum at all.

 

[Wij]

The difference was last time the greedy fuckers were busy troughing on the EU gravy train. Ireland's love affair with Europe turned sour the day the ECB arrived and took all the free money away. And funnily enough the original Lisbon second vote debacle soured a lot of people towards Europe as well, expecially as the "yes" vote hung on the fear of financial disaster; it would be bloody difficult to sell that particular line again.

Biggest concern I'm seeing on Irish forums is that there was a court judgement a couple of years back which could give the Irish government a loophole not to have a referendum at all.

They won't need a referendum as it wont be an EU treaty. It'll be an inter-government agreement.

 

[Deebs]

Yes but they have to be careful that whatever they do doesnt breach the lisbon treaty or it will all end up in court.

I think they would have thought of this and will be extremely careful in what they draw up.

 

[Deebs]

The big Ed Miliband:



Another statement from Labour that leaves me looking elsewhere for some reason.

Ed Milliband is just a fucking waste of skin. Today he has shown the complete lack of leadership skills and how much of a muppet he really is.

 

[DaGaffer]

They won't need a referendum as it wont be an EU treaty. It'll be an inter-government agreement.

Unless it changes Irish sovereignty. This is the problem; the fear that sovereignty is given away by stealth. At the moment we don't know what's in this "agreement"; but all the noises from the eurocrats point to de facto tax and spend controls (under the guise of weasel words like "regulation" and "harmonisation")