Web Software

[xenon2000]

Precisely what the fuck is wrong with NotePad? That's how I learned to write html and I probably how I always will. I don't boast about it either, I just like knowing the contents of a page source are written entirely by myself, in the way I like it, with nothing hidden from my knowledge. It's so much more satisfying coming up with a quality design made in notepad than just having an editor do it for you, imho. Having about 1/3 the code (in the case of Frontpage) also helps alot.

I'm not putting down frontpage/dreamweaver users btw; use whatever the hell you want, but don't slam notepad users for putting in more effort.

 

[old.blackcow]

i agree, writing the code yourself shows you exactly whats going on, it's much easier to edit if something strange is happening..

Besides, you need a knowledge of html, if dreamweaver or frontpage farks up what are you going to fall back on exactly ?

 

[old.Kez]

I use homesite, because essentially its Notepad & IE in one window+tabs, which is just slightly easier. And if I'm feeling particularly dumb, there is a whole host of buttons to remind me of what I'm doing. Joy.

But macromedia are going to kill it

 

[old.[ESZ]Khan]

Thats NOT the issue here,

The issue is that it must be very unproductive creating every website in note pad only, [nuff tags ].

As for:

Precisely what the fuck is wrong with NotePad?

Nothing, its very good practice to learn html in prog's like notepad!!


Khan

 

[old.Dark Helmet]

Sorry, this is GreatDuLac, I changed my name casue I don't use that one anymore

Originally posted by [ESZ]Khan
Thats NOT the issue here,

The issue is that it must be very unproductive creating every website in note pad only, [nuff tags ].

No, ths issue here is:

Originally posted by pocketyoda
Hi all,

I want to start creating my own webpage - what is the best software to use - and any advice would be appreciated.

Which led to an argument simply on which is better software to use, not a more productive software, not a nicer looking software, not an easy software... the BEST software. For HTML NOTHING can beat the flexability of notepad... you might be able to tie it, but nothing can actually BEAT it. It all comes down to a matter of opinion, and IMO notepad is better than DW b/c of the unlimited amount of control you have over your page... it is also very nice to see the page and know you created it from the ground up and can change anything extremly quickly b/c you know where everything is. Others agree with me that DW is NOT the best software for a new web designer b/c without the raw HTML code you will never acomplish anything substantional.

 

[old.Jas]

You don't seem to understand... DW gives you the control over the code you want (even more so with colourful code) and the speed of a GUI page builder.

I suggest you try DW a little harder before you knock it.

 

[old.Dark Helmet]

I have tried other versons of DW more than 4.0 and I understand how it bascially works.

I really do not see how anything can give you more "control" over the design... how can something have more control than absolute control which notepad gives? Color coding is ok, but I really never use it b/c I don't need it, I understand perfectly what I am doing and I indent properly in notepad so I undertstand what is going on. DW might be faster, but as far as editing and understanding your code it is not better. I say again, and hopefully for the last time, it is a metter of opinion and I personally would not suggest DW for someone starting web design. I would tell them to goto Notepad and once they establish a strong understanding of the code then TRY DW and see which they like more. Anyways, I don't think the money it costs for DW is worth it by FAR when if I actually do WANT color coding I can just use a more advanced HTML editor such as phpEdit or such.

 

[old.Jas]

I really do not see how anything can give you more "control" over the design

It lets you focus on the overall design a lot better - rather than worrying about the code.

Saying the code it produces is unoptimised is a fallacy.

Did you code http://www.xkclan.com? I notice lots of coding errors. I'm not saying my hand-coded code is any better - but DW would not make those errors.

 

[old.Dark Helmet]

Actually, xkclan.com is a site I started cleaning up, I am working on a new design that should be up, like I said I was working on a theme system for the site. I know that the code in that is pretty bad b/c I wrote it awhile ago and my knollege has increased significantly in the past few months. I never did like the way that one turned out...

Once I get the new design up you can check it out, it is really turning out very well except I took some art from csart and I have get a few permissions there b4 it goes public

But you do have to admin, looking through the source code of my site is easier than one created by practicaly any GUI editor

 

[old.[ESZ]Khan]

Jas it doesn't look like we are going to get our point across. I believe DW makes good HTML [One of the best WYSIWYG packages out their]

It is good practice that HTML is learnt first, but..... there's nothing to say that DW makes messy code!!!

That’s what were saying, and Jas made a VERY good point, with DW you can focus on the design, not the html!!!!

After all, looks are everything he he he,


Khan

 

[Tempy_Incursion]

Originally posted by [ESZ]Khan
Jas it doesn't look like we are going to get our point across. I believe DW makes good HTML [One of the best WYSIWYG packages out their]

It is good practice that HTML is learnt first, but..... there's nothing to say that DW makes messy code!!!

That’s what were saying, and Jas made a VERY good point, with DW you can focus on the design, not the html!!!!

Yeah I agree that DW is one of the best out there and is good for producing HTML, which is fine for everyone who wants to make a page without wanting to learn/edit the raw HTML even though it would be worthwhile. I've always done all my PHP coding in notepad/wordpad, never in DW and always will.

 

[old.[ESZ]Khan]

I always hand write my asp code, but I do it in the html screen of dreamweaver! there is no difference!


Khan

 

[old.Jas]

I use DW to prototype code - then port it into Interdev to optimise and add ASP

 

[old.[ESZ]Khan]

Jas do you do www.ferrago.co.uk as a full time job?


Khan

 

[old.Jas]

I wish . Advertising revenue is not enough to support full time employees. Two of us own and administer the site - the writers are volunteers.

I work as an IT contractor full time.

 

[old.[ESZ]Khan]

arr ok, just being nosey [] like the site tho,


Khan

 

[Tempy_Incursion]

Yeah Jas it's a good site.

 

[(Shovel)]

I totally agree about the prototyping point.

The site I'm currently working on - which will be PHP enabled - was much easier to play with a look in Dreamweaver at a stage when I just want to see where it is going to go. I don't even want to be switching between tabs to see a preview then switching back. If a table is too big it's nice to drag it around the place.
- and in the rare occasions of using layers DW is a godsend for design.

For the PHP and finalising I've switched it to HTML-Kit.

Out of interest, when we say "notepad" are we actually meaning MS Windows Notepad, or are we using it as a generic term for any editor that isn't WYSIWYG??
I've assumed we mean the former, yes?

 

[old.Jas]

Glad you like the site. New design is in the works - http://jaycee.dns2go.com/ferragonew/homedesign.htm

 

[old.Devilfish2k2]

I will have to say jas i love your site, what do u do your graphics with photoshop/fireworks ?

 

[Teaser]

Homesite is a good prog for HTML / PHP / ASP / Java / JS and it might do VBScript aswell. It has a click-and-drag method of making sites, but I've not used that so I'm not knowing how good / bad it is.

It also has a handy FTP feature, which means you can connect to a webserver via FTP and edit pages live.



http://www.macromedia.com/software/homesite/

 

[old.Jas]

My design process is -

1. Paper - the best medium for quick sketches of design ideas
2. FW/PSP/PS - prototype of the design
3. Test the usability
4. Above & Illustrator/Freehand - add anything that isn't done in the prototype
5. PSP & DW - slice the design and create HTML
6. Test the HTML
7. Interdev - add ASP to exisiting HTML, and create pure ASP files
8. Test the whole site
   [/list=1]
   
   The new ferrago design is mainly done in FW, the old one was done mainly in PSP

 

[old.Dark Helmet]

Originally posted by Shovel
I totally agree about the prototyping point.
Out of interest, when we say "notepad" are we actually meaning MS Windows Notepad, or are we using it as a generic term for any editor that isn't WYSIWYG??
I've assumed we mean the former, yes?

Yes... I use notepad for the start of small site design, but for anything that starts to get large I use PHPedit b/c of line numbering.

 

[Tempy_Incursion]

Yeah PHPEdit is good (a little unstable sometimes though) but then DW has line numbering in the source also so I just use that.

The standard Windows Notepad is good for source editing/coding anyway.

Oh and Homesite - is it worth downloading if you also have DW4?

 

[Teaser]

Oh and Homesite - is it worth downloading if you also have DW4?

I'm not sure about that as I've never used DW, and I got into Homesite before Macromedia poked their noses in.

I noticed on their site they give a copy of Homesite with DW, so I assume they think it's worth having both. I'd say that in general Homesite is for those who prefer to write the HTML (and / or any other web-type language) themselves rather than clicking-and-dragging. And that FTP feature can be usefull (which I don't think DW4 has?).

 

[old.Devilfish2k2]

Do to lack of funds, is there any other programmes like visual interdev ???

 

[(Shovel)]

Originally posted by Teaser

And that FTP feature can be usefull (which I don't think DW4 has?).

Dreamweaver has had FTP since version 2 at least.

 

[old.Devilfish2k2]

just had alook round dreamweaver 4 and i can't find the ftp, can u tell me how i can access it ?


All so i have just got Zend Studio 2.0 very nice for PHP dev

 

[(Shovel)]

Don't have DW4 anymore, but if it's the same as DW3 then click on the "Sites" menu and define the site - local folder for caching etc. then follow through the options and fill in the FTp details where necesary. Then when the site window comes up, click connect.

The "site" shortcut key may be F5, but it's late so don't quote me on that

 

[Tempy_Incursion]

Good Homesite isn't that big a prog to download so I'll get it and also DW is pretty useful for the FTP side of things but I prefer to use WS_FTP Pro instead.