Was talking about world hunger yesterday...

[old.Tohtori]

...with roomie.

We came to the conclusion that instead of sending food etc, we should put the people to work and give pay/food for the work done.

You know, modern "slavery" if you will.

Eveyrone else on this world works for their food/upkeep, so why not them?

I can't be an evil abstard for thinking this way, can i?

(And no, i don't want to hear how "we caused it" as i didn't cause anything)

My solution to world hunger etc: Put them to work.

One otpion would be a direct "semi-slavery", as in, you give them food and shelter, they work your menial tasks. What exactly would be wrong with it?

Or with some, huge farmland in africa, providing food for their unemployed etc.

 

[chipper]

simple answer send em condoms instead of food that way they wont have 5+ kids to feed, evil bastard? no think about it would you bring kids into this world (given the choice) knowing you couldnt support them? any no sane person would be saying no here unless ya a fuckin chav who wants to scrounge off the system but thats offtopic


my point is we cant help them till they help themselves they need the means to create food and sustain it, not food packages that they become dependant on and lose any basic skills aimed at food production farming fishing etc


and tohtori you aint far off the mark but id still pay em in cash keep the PC crowd happy

 

[Case]

Why are we paying to build stuff that we learnt to make and build ourselves thousands of years ago?

Sounds harsh yes but I'd like to know why given that Africa is the cradle of civilisation and they have had thousands of years longer to develop than we have they haven`t worked out how to make their own irrigation ect.

This might sound like i`m just seeing things in black and white but instead of walking 47 miles a day to water why not either dig a well or move the village? whats the deal?

 

[Dukat]

simple answer send em condoms instead of food that way they wont have 5+ kids to feed, evil bastard? no think about it would you bring kids into this world (given the choice) knowing you couldnt support them? any no sane person would be saying no here unless ya a fuckin chav who wants to scrounge off the system but thats offtopic

Eek, Dejavu?

Every time someone says this the PC brigade run in with plaquards and burn the offending person's embassies down


God help us if someone starts drawing cartoons!!

 

[Gorbachioo]

So do you really think that they're just chilling out there and waiting to be fed by us noble white men?


We've been trough this before i think.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So do you really think that they're just chilling out there and waiting to be fed by us noble white men?


We've been trough this before i think.

I haven't, and that's an extreme comparison and you know it.

My point is valid, everyone in this world works for their food. Why not put them to work?

 

[Case]

I don`t think putting them to work would be an answer, I think leaving them to get on with it is a more realistic and fair option

 

[Himse]

tbh, its pointless, Africa is a basket case atm in all fairness.

Charity gives money to government, government spend on weapons, weapons kill eachother.

Half the ppl can't live because others fuck it up for them etc.

You can't really solve the hunger problem anywhere since generally it's corruption that ultimately leads to a poor population.

EG North Korea.

Also giving them farmland WILL NOT help, it will just give them a reason for more confrentation.

 

[BloodOmen]

To be honest I agree as harsh as this sounds, if you keep giving food/relief for nothing in return when it FINALLY and I mean FINALLY ends they're gonna keep wanting to get free stuff because they've not had to work for it.

Example

Spoilt kid born and raised purely spoilt waited on hand and foot EVERYTHING given to him/her.. when him/her gets older (or ofc this crisis ends) what does he/she do? nothing thats what, continues wanting to be waited on hand or foot.

I agree with what Tohtori said on this matter, putting people to work lets them earn it and in the long run stops them becoming lazy/relying on aid services to live.

What i've said above sounds harsh and i'm not saying it will 100% be like this when the crisis is over, but its a posability that people can't afford to over look.

 

[Thorwyn]

We came to the conclusion that instead of sending food etc, we should put the people to work and give pay/food for the work done.

What work? What do you want them to do? Clean our shoes that we send them? Craft some more african scupltures? Who are you and who is "we", that we can "put people to work" for the sole purpose of not giving them anything for free?
Why do you even care? Are they taking anything away form you? Are you jealous that they´re getting food for free? Do you want to change with them?

If you don´t want to be responsible for your history, fine. I don´t want to be held responsible for my history either, but at least I tried to learn from it. There´s a difference between being responsible and being aware and you´re obviously lacking the humility to be happy that you were born in this part of the world, living in a surplus of supplies and without the fear of starving to death when some ignorant uber-rich muppets from the other side of the world stop sending you doggie bags.

If you don´t want to send them food, fine. But if you really don´t care about why the world is as it is, then at least refrain from making solutions about how to fix the results.

 

[Ezteq]

i dunno about you lot but im useless in the morning without me brekkie, i cant see how people who are practically starving to death are going to be able to work.

on the whole i'd say yep sounds nice and simple but the governments etc would get in the way especially in africa sadly one of the most corrupt places in the world next to FH, im sure the governments there would find a way to tax them and try to profit from such a scheme.

 

[Gorbachioo]

As thorwyn said. If they could work they would. There are very good reasons why the situation is what it is and i promise you lazyness is not one of them.


It keeps stunning me how ignorant people are on this forum.. ;o

 

[tierk]

...We came to the conclusion that instead of sending food etc, we should put the people to work and give pay/food for the work done.....

This is a bit rich coming from the same guy that, iirc, a few months ago didnt want to work or couldnt find a job? Imagine they gave you the same deal - polish my shoes for a meal - i wonder how that would have gone down with you.

I just find it really funny how lots of people that cba to do a honest days work themselves, wallow in self pitty, asking for peoples sympathy on inet forums have the nerve to come on here with solutions to global problems (which hunger clearly is).

They themselves dont give anything (charity) to help, stating that they cant afford to do shit to help. Nor are they prepared to live /work under the same solutions that they happily try and suggest will work fine for others.

What conclusion does this lead me to? That the people that are doing all the thinking are just hypocrites and that they should first see how they would feel /like the so called solution themselves.

 

[tris-]

it doesnt matter what you try its always going to be wrong.

i dont really care that much because it doesnt effect me. no doubt thats wrong.
though i did donate about £50 or so oxfam last christmas.

 

[Levin]

What's needed is investments in Africa's incredibly rich natural resources by companies who don't skin their workers or don't pay them honest salaries. In a lot of places in Africa the people have been happy with their very small scale mining (digging with hands and shovels etc) until some big comes in and buys up all the land and lets the natives work for basicly nothing while the company makes all the profit.

African governments need to establish laws to prevent this from happening. And to do that they need to stop being so damn corrupt when the foreign companies pay them under the table to let the whole thing continue.

And if the people wants to try to revolt against their corrupt leaders - what would they use? Sticks and stones against the warlords' imported guns and tanks?

So personally - I blame those who sell those greedy bastards their weapons. And I blame the big companies who come there and steal Africa's wealth from its people, walking hand in hand with the corrupt leaders.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If you don´t want *snip*g food for free? Do you want to change with them?

Just because i say work, i don't ean "clean our shoes and f*ck our boys". There's plenty of manual labour, with little(if any training needed, that could be done. These people aren't educated, and there's plenty of people around the world doing jobs that they are overeducated in. Why not spread it a bit? You're also thinking i'm saying "we do this now and you obey me!", when i's simply my opinion on it and my way of thinking.

Why i care, well, why do you? Are you feeling righteous for giving food? Feeling mighty for giving crumbs? Why don't you change with them, since you're o eager to help. Yeah, thought so, not at all the point.

Conviniently missing the point that, if someone isn't working here, he's suddenly a freeloader, but when they are not working there, they need help. Right?


And i never said "i have the solutionz!!!1", i just gave my opinion, on how charity isn't working in my opinion, and this might. MIGHT. And suddenly i'm stalin.

This is a bit rich coming from the same guy that, iirc, a few months ago didnt want to work or couldnt find a job? Imagine they gave you the same deal - polish my shoes for a meal - i wonder how that would have gone down with you.

I just find it really funny how lots of people that cba to do a honest days work themselves, wallow in self pitty, asking for peoples sympathy on inet forums have the nerve to come on here with solutions to global problems (which hunger clearly is).

This a bit rich from the guy who evidently read what he wanted and ignored the rest, and knows f*ck all.

Couldn't get work, 'cause there was none, nada, tried everything and just wasn't any. You're one of those "if you're unemployed you're not looking hard enough and just freeloading" people who kow sh*t all about it.

If you find that funny, you'll find this really f*cking hilarious: What do you do? Have you been unemployed? Have you been out of luck?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Just because i say work, i don't ean "clean our shoes and f*ck our boys". There's plenty of manual labour, with little(if any training needed, that could be done. These people aren't educated, and there's plenty of people around the world doing jobs that they are overeducated in. Why not spread it a bit?

Many firms are spreading it. Its called outsourcing. But obviously its not working well enough. So if theres no productive work to do what should they work on? If these problems were so easy to solve someone would have solved them already. Maybe the dumbass ni**ers wouldnt have but im sure someone would have taken the spare nobel peace prize already.


And saying that you're out of luck in this context just makes me laugh.... sorry (I think we have discussed this before aswell)

 

[kivik]

Levin for president!

That's the only way forward, offer 'our knowledge' in forms of infrastructure, economy and use of natural resources BUT without the 'must-profit-mentality'.

However, I don't see this happening in a lifetime. Non-profit western companies? LOL give me a break

 

[Bugz]

Most of the problems in the 3rd world exist because there is no profit-incentive to change them.

As someone said before - unless we try to fight the battle against poverty in a way that doesn't just involve throwing cash at it - the problem will still remain.

American took a rather controversial yet unique idea in sterilizing women for money. The idea behind it is good - stops the production of babies with diseases and so on - and curb the population but a) money incentives aren't enough and b) the African population doesn't particularly need curbing.

If western-world economies treated the 3rd world as a fair, equal economy and if we could someone curb the growing number of AIDS & Malaria victims, poverty would be less of an issue.

People often don't realize the dramatic effects even small changes in our economy can have elsewhere. One of the best examples is the fiasco with charities from our country donating our unused clothes to the 3rd world. Notice how now, it is instead sold in shops and the money is sent over. That's because the effects severely disrupted the economy.

The major concern isn't that can we stop poverty, hunger and disease - but more - how do we go about it. We've created such a complicated and destructive mess that it is going to require a highly sophisticated and maneuvered plan.

 

[Thorwyn]

Just because i say work, i don't ean "clean our shoes and f*ck our boys". There's plenty of manual labour, with little(if any training needed, that could be done. These people aren't educated, and there's plenty of people around the world doing jobs that they are overeducated in. Why not spread it a bit?

Again: what would we gain if they would work, besides the "moral satisfaction" that they have to work just as we have to work? Exactly Zilch! It doesn´t change a goddamn thing for us. And if you´re advertising the modern slavery (as you called it in your initial post), then you have to live with peope questioning your ethics. Work needs to have an effect, otherwise it´s not work, it´s occupational therapy.
And spread what? The work? We don´t even have enough work to occupy the people over here, let alone an entire continent full of (as you correctly say) undereducated people. Hell... dude, you can´t be THAT naive: there IS not enough work unless you consider copying telephonebooks by hand as "work".

You're also thinking i'm saying "we do this now and you obey me!", when i's simply my opinion on it and my way of thinking.

No, I just responded to your opinion by questioning your stance, nothing more.

Why i care, well, why do you? Are you feeling righteous for giving food? Feeling mighty for giving crumbs? Why don't you change with them, since you're o eager to help. Yeah, thought so, not at all the point.

Did I start a thread about the pros and cons of giving food, or you? Did you see me bragging about my social engagements? Do you know me or what I give or do or don´t give?
I just don´t want to let people die. I don´t feel mighty or righteous when I give. It doesn´t hurt me and it helps another human being. Is that wrong? Do I need to justify myself for having sympathy for people who´re living in horrible, hopeless circumstances, caused (not only, but to a good extend) by my ancestors? I don´t want to change with them, no. I´m - like I said in my first post - happy to live in this part of the world. If I would believe in a God (which I don´t), I would thank him for this privilege.

Conviniently missing the point that, if someone isn't working here, he's suddenly a freeloader, but when they are not working there, they need help. Right?

If you´re not working here, there´s the dole which will supply you with more than "those" (more on that "those" later) african people will ever see in their entire fooking life! I never said that unemployed people over here are freeloaders. I`m well aware of the situation on the market and how hard it is to find a job these days. But you CAN NOT deny, that even the minimum of allowance over here is enough to survive. Can´t say the same about Africa though.

Now for the "those" or "they". It appears that you and other people in this thread are talking about "them" as if entire Africa is just a bunch of happy, joint-smoking Reggae freaks, who are just too lazy to work. Africa is a continent with 50+ nations. And all the food donations are usually going to the poorest of those nations. Those people aren´t even capable of working, even if they could.

And i never said "i have the solutionz!!!1", i just gave my opinion, on how charity isn't working in my opinion, and this might. MIGHT. And suddenly i'm stalin.

Badly worded in my first post. What I meant to say was: Don´t come up with "how things should work" if you´re not interested in why things are as they are and when you´re denying any connection to the historical reasons.

 

[Golena]

It sounds horribly harsh but i've had the same view for quite a while now.

We don't need more food and water, etc. etc.
We need less people!

While the adverts for aid, 3 children die every second etc all sound very upsetting, if we actually go over and save those 3 children every second the world will run out of natural resources in hours..

Best thing we can do is leave them alone until the population naturally (isn't nature wonderful) arrives at a number that the local environment they are in can sustain.
Saving everyone in the world all the time simply can't work long term.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And saying that you're out of luck in this context just makes me laugh.... sorry (I think we have discussed this before aswell)

That was ismply an answer to tierk, nothing more, so don't even try that...

Oh and, using terms like "dumba** (nword here)", is not ok, no matter if you asterix it or not. I'm suprised if you don't get a slap for that...



Thorwyn, i'll answer to your reply a bit later when i get settled home, need a bit more time for that.

Just as a nut for thought though, read my initial post, and see if your answer to it was a bit too aggressive, when my initial post wasn't a "kill everyone in africa" post.

But, will answer your points later if it's ok.

 

[Gorbachioo]

It sounds horribly harsh but i've had the same view for quite a while now.

We don't need more food and water, etc. etc.
We need less people!

While the adverts for aid, 3 children die every second etc all sound very upsetting, if we actually go over and save those 3 children every second the world will run out of natural resources in hours..

Best thing we can do is leave them alone until the population naturally (isn't nature wonderful) arrives at a number that the local environment they are in can sustain.
Saving everyone in the world all the time simply can't work long term.

Nothing new there. We need to start controlling population growth. The question is do we do it with famine/war/genocide or without those things. Ofcourse the second one means that we actually have to do something about it. Which one would you pick?


And Tohtori: Dont you fucking dare pull the racism card on me

 

[old.Tohtori]

And Tohtori: Dont you fucking dare pull the racism card on me

Ermm....exactly why not?

 

[tris-]

if anyone cared that much theyd be out there with the red cross or something.
not sat at home on tens of thousands of pounds a year, upgrading their PCs for the newest games.

fact is no one really gives a shit, they just want other people to think they do.

 

[Lamp]

The big companies like Shell have much to answer for.

 

[Gorbachioo]

if anyone cared that much theyd be out there with the red cross or something.
not sat at home on tens of thousands of pounds a year, upgrading their PCs for the newest games.

fact is no one really gives a shit, they just want other people to think they do.

Perhaps, but not caring is not an excuse not to do anything about it.

 

[Calaen]

I haven't, and that's an extreme comparison and you know it.

My point is valid, everyone in this world works for their food. Why not put them to work?

What about when you were unemployed and you were complaining about your government not giving you enough money to let you do stuff?

 

[tris-]

Perhaps, but not caring is not an excuse not to do anything about it.

do you care?
if so what do you do thats actually making a difference?

why isnt it an excuse anyway? if i dont care about something i sure as fuck dont make efforts for it.

i dont care that my class mates are idiots and will do rubbish in their work. but should i do something to help them?
no of course not, because firstly i dont care and secondly it has no effect on me.

 

[Calaen]

Oh and, using terms like "dumba** (nword here)", is not ok, no matter if you asterix it or not. I'm suprised if you don't get a slap for that...

Ill be suprised if you were not the one reporting it!