Warhammer Online

[Wonk]

Doubtful

But as said, i didn't mean WAr is WoW copy exact. Just some parts seem like real rip-offs.

Hell, like, putting veyrons headlights into a porsche and saying it's ok 'cause lamps have existed before.

Im not defending WAR at all. I actually agree with you here, however just about every mmo is a copy of another one. WoW aswell.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Im not defending WAR at all. I actually agree with you here, however just about every mmo is a copy of another one. WoW aswell.

Didn't think you were, just wanted to force my point as such, so that some other person doesn't come and chew my "sacrilice war hating head" off

It's true, most MMOs are copies in better parts, but then again...one has to say...it's the genre?

I mean, if you look at differences in FPS or racing games, there's not much.

And also, if someone DOES do something different, the candyfloss burgerloving gaming ation, wouldn't buy it and it would become a "relative" success at best.

 

[Blackjack]

If you find it to be boring after 60-70, then it's not one for you and don't have to play it ofcourse, but i personally can't stand the fab, yes it's a fab, of bashing one of the best working and most succesful MMOs of all times.

I think you mean fad Resulting to correcting spelling, that is rich. Fab just reminds me too much of masturbating

And i don't believe it to be a fad with no merit.
WoW is a succesfull MMO, i even admitted that. but it's FAR, far, far, far.... far. From the best MMO ever made (imo. As it might be the best ever to 14 year old Randy in Omaha. Or you. That is a matter of taste.) No one steals anything from WoW, since WoW stole all that shit in the first place, yes even the UI is modified from other games UI. So in reality, they don't steal from WoW, but from the game that originally did it.

Alot of people hate on WoW to counter the overwhelming fanboy'ism it has.
People who simply can't jump off WoWs cock for 2 seconds. (not saying you yourself ride blizzards jock. Although you are a dirty WoW player ) People can love WoW all they want, but when they start spewing crap about WoW inventing this, and being the ultimate creator of that. I will present an argument to the opposite.

WoW was fun for me, when i played it. Otherwise i wouldn't have hit level 70. But i feel it lacks heavily in the PvP department. And the game made me (i use this word lightly) hate it at the end. DAoC didn't, i still LOVE DAoC even though i don't play anymore.
DAoC had it's issues too, but i just feel WoW forced me into hating it in the end.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Possibly yes, might mean fad..dunno. "newest cool thing to do".

As i said, it can be stealing if it's a blatant copy. Changing something, taking and modifying for same genre game, go ahead. But outright copying, it's ripping off the game in question.

Never said it's THE best, i said one of the best, as it is. I've played a lot of MMOs, and with all taken into consideration, WoW just works. Story, quests, randomloot(diablo blessing) etc, it just is a very very good MMO. Not to mention the vast amount of time you can spend with just the new things in it. Even now, after years, i find tuff that i've not seen before. Sure, it might not be the best, but it's not far as you say. There's plenty of things WoW does better, alot better, then other games. And this is simply due to one thing...blizzard has talent.

Anti-ing is as bad as fanboi'ng, no way 'round it. You can't hate something just 'cause otherwise you wouldn't be.

DAoC was fun too, but i think most who put DAoC over WoW, do it for a bit of sentimental value, bit of "golden days" and just a touch of "other do it too". Not to say there can't be valid reasons, but there's a touch of loyalty there too.

 

[Blackjack]

No doubt Blizzard has the cash and the talent to make games people will play, no one can argue with the succes of Diablo, Starcraft and Warcraft. And if they made World of Starcraft, i would probably give it a whirl.

I put DAoC of WoW, not for sentimental reasons. But because DAoCs endgame was just so much more in the way of what i wanted than WoW.
Everything i do in an mmo is in the end aimed at PvP/RvR.
Spec, gear, playstyle.
I just love the way PvP was done in DAoC

 

[old.Tohtori]

No doubt Blizzard has the cash and the talent to make games people will play, no one can argue with the succes of Diablo, Starcraft and Warcraft. And if they made World of Starcraft, i would probably give it a whirl.

I put DAoC of WoW, not for sentimental reasons. But because DAoCs endgame was just so much more in the way of what i wanted than WoW.
Everything i do in an mmo is in the end aimed at PvP/RvR.
Spec, gear, playstyle.
I just love the way PvP was done in DAoC

Aye, games are all relative to what you like from the endgame, startgame etc. No denying that. Though, you have to admit, sentimentalism does have a small percentage of liking DAoC too, heck, i like DAoC only because of sentimental values(didn't really strike into me that much).

I'm thinking, that there are three kinds of MMOs around; "realistic" MMOs, that focus on stuff that's more towards old pen&paper. Fun MMOs, that focus on giving a nice fun experience, without too much "nerd" in it, and then the "unconventional" MMOs, which will never make it into the big leagues, but are fun to those who like the particular one.

And, to each their own. I personally play WoW, EVE, RFOnline and many others occasionally, for different reasons.

 

[Iceforge]

gonna play Warhammer online for sure!

Fan of the game itself (or atleast used to be, more Mordheim for me now)

And the fact the same developers are on it as those who made DAoC and all the information released leads towards them making PvP much like DAoC, just improved, and not sucky like WoW (sorry WoW fans, PvP sucks in that game, end of debate) just makes it totally sweet!

 

[old.Tohtori]

(sorry WoW fans, PvP sucks in that game, end of debate)

Have to ask why though, if you want to "debate" instead of give a non-info strict comment.

Why does it suck?
Have you tried world pvp?(aka pvpserver)
Why are others better?
etc...

Just some constructive comments would be nice.

 

[Calaen]

DAOC pvp just worked being organised really payed off even against overwhelming numbers, Wow pvp always felt so unorganised.

 

[Afran]

Will try it like I every other MMO.

As a side note, WoW arena really isn't that bad at all :]

 

[Vasconcelos]

If you just decided to throw out the DAoC2 comment at random. That's all good. But remember that quoting someone means that what you post have some relation to that particular post. And that can make all the difference in a comment like that, imho. I just don't like being being "corrected" when i'm not wrong.
Go quote Vlad instead, he is more random than me

That is what i changed it to!
I hate that 10 min limit

Then I missread your post. My apologies.

 

[grizzy]

Tohtori u dont seem to get it very well why WoW pvp sux, its not bad, it cud be alot of fun and yes, like team fortress fun but the fact is that its too rewarding towards grinders and ppl who play it atleast 6 hrs a day. The ppl who want to pvp for fun dont want to grind, they want to go out with theyr friends or solo for an hour or two once or twice a week... its just not viable in WoW ... cuz u will get wtfowned, but it was very viable in daoc. U didnt even need to pve for pot money, ud just get it in rvr .. and if u were any good at all, realm ranks didnt matter that much aswell, ud still get a plenty fun fighting high RR ppl. Oh and high lvl mobs in pvp areas is just a big fat no go

 

[old.Tohtori]

grizzy, exactly why iask why people think it sucks.

I have fun in WoW pvp, we have a group of friends who go out and have fun, fight, don't care about equipment and even win on uneven odds. Hell, even solo in a pvp world is fun, running away from high level "pwn" mobiles, guerilla tactics etc.

Grinders get better equipment, sure, but that's only an issue if you want that equipment.

I think the issue with many hating wow pvp is, that there's so many people around, that finding that nice group is harder.

But that doesn't mean the system sucks, you know?

 

[fettoken]

Screw Warhammer, go Age of Conan! Its fu-un, i promise. And the graphics are fluff, major fluff. Tho its a 22 gb installation. And screw WoW aswell (if you can handle the mature setting of AoC) WoW is like, a childrens cardgame... its for children!!!

 

[Everz]

Have to ask why though, if you want to "debate" instead of give a non-info strict comment.

Why does it suck?
Have you tried world pvp?(aka pvpserver)
Why are others better?
etc...

Just some constructive comments would be nice.

I've played both and daoc pvp is far superior ATM, with WoW it just wasnt that fun at all, maybe it the way the combat system works in WoW or how big the WoW world is that make it seemingly boring (im not an Arena fan), and the drap World PvP is boring these days, endless riding around just to kill sub-70's was not that fun towards the end though no matter how much easy Honour it was. It was just not as much fun as i had on Camlann/Mordred doing the same sorta thing or roll reverse and doing the xping, never had to worry id be ganked or anything in WoW and that was slightly boring as it was just an endless pvp slog most the time, and the odd battle you got was some super twinked out rogue.

This could be due to the fact my class was a shaman and pretty much the way i trained/talented it made pvp to me far to easy, and little of a challenge even though i didnt even have top tier gear or much else i could easily handle 2-3 people at a time (though this may again be the state of the player on the other side been the average age of 10) and leave with nothing if anything lost at all... far to easy, far to boring the classes were and all, the same classes on each side, the only difference was the race, so boring compared to the amount of different races/classes unique to one realm on daoc, which made RvR more enjoyable in that aspect and some what less predictable then WoW's was.

However the one plus side to WoW was some of the pvp raids on say Ogrimmar, and so forth, now they were good fun and hectic, nothing more fun then taking over the Horde's joint and thats part where imo the WoW pvp did sorta shine in that you were able to actually invade your enemies land where this was not at all possible in DAoC (well till it was fixed ). But even so DAoC old relic raids, and OF keep takes (havent played new ones so cannot comment) were more fun, who can say the mass relic raids of early excal were not fun, i enjoyed em for sure and it wasnt a chore that sometime town raiding in WoW can be.

Then theres the whole point of PvP, in WoW pvp is not the end game, its a sideline to keep people occupied, the true end game is just getting the best gear and pveing onwards. Compared to DAoC where the end game is just PvP and gaining RR's etc, giving me more meaning to do PvP in DAoC then WoW as pvp isnt even needed in there to compete.

So overall, combat wise, fun wise, and even meaning wise id say DAoC is the much better and strong, and overall id choose it anyday.

 

[grizzy]

Yea i know what u mean tohtori, i was just giving more of a personal opinion about it cuz im more of a 8v8 person, sry shud of said so

but yea one problem is that there is too many ppl, but that can easily be cured by giving us a lobby rather than just a simple queue system, so u can choose who u wanna fight, maybe also some ''friend system'' too....

 

[grizzy]

hmm think i misread ur post there and already used edit -.- if u mean by too many ppl that theres too many ppl in your own realm to find ppl to grp with then thats just not the case, yes its harder if u dont know any1 but iv played on like 3 different servers atleast and i never had any trouble finding great talent or beeing a part of it. It just requires effort and it didnt come easy in daoc aswell.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yea i know what u mean tohtori, i was just giving more of a personal opinion about it cuz im more of a 8v8 person, sry shud of said so

Oh not at all, personal taste is always the deciding factor in personal choice of gaming. Just shouldn't, probably, be used as the "end all" discussion arguments

What i meant with too many people, is that there's so much more "scum" around and people who just seem to play with their eyes tied behind their heads.

 

[Cemeterygates]

Oh not at all, personal taste is always the deciding factor in personal choice of gaming. Just shouldn't, probably, be used as the "end all" discussion arguments

What i meant with too many people, is that there's so much more "scum" around and people who just seem to play with their eyes tied behind their heads.

eyes tied behind their heads? shit that can't be comfortable.....that a sado-masachism thing?

 

[old.Tohtori]

eyes tied behind their heads? shit that can't be comfortable.....that a sado-masachism thing?

It's a "Universe Pear" thing, older bros first book a good while back written, sadly only in Finnish.

 

[grizzy]

What i meant with too many people, is that there's so much more "scum" around and people who just seem to play with their eyes tied behind their heads.

That happens when alot of ppl get together, everywhere its bound to

I'll just have to hope that most of the scum will stay in WoW and the rest will go for AOC and its fancy combat system, the nekkid succubus and the 18+ rating [SARCASM]cuz its a cool game just for that[/SARCASM] for WAR

 

[old.SevenSins]

I'll defininately be trying WAR, like Afran cause I wanna try all MMO's, and like Grizzy for the PvP aspect of the game I've missed so much in WoW. But also because of the many friends I had in DAoC I know who'll be joining also.

Sure I'm more of a PvE player myself (thus WoW is grand in that area), but I do lean towards using my phat epix for PvP... in a way that it's rewarding.

My personal opinion is that I don't find PvP in WoW rewarding as such, kills don't matter.. hours spent killing does, and even then it's the winning factor that decides the profit, not your personal killing blows. (Like f.ex if a keeptake in DAoC gave RP's, in the WoW spirit of winning a BG, that keeptake would give 5x more RP's then all the kills u made in the keep, basically meaning that the reward for totally obliterating people in PvP is but a mere cent compared to the solid coins you get for being the team victor in the match, this means that people would no longer roam RvR for 8v8's but stick with keep takes (in WoW's case BG's) because it's more rewarding.

They did try to patch the wound with Arenas, but along with adding resilience, it came down to nothing more but a gearfight, a resilience stat fight to be precise. Your PvE gear was worth shit, and tactics don't matter if you don't have a good combination of survivability and dps. And world PvP died a long time ago when WSG was introduced, this includes PvP servers, unless u enjoy ganking grindbots that give little to no points anyway.. once again in comparison to a winning BG round.

I still love WoW for it's PvE, and I'll definately be picking WOTLK up, if not only for the lore.

 

[Marc]

I will it play it if they encourage group leveling, ie making a group and fighting monsters that give group bonus XP. Thats the fun, meeting new peeps etc. WoW was just mind numbingly boring having to solo pretty much every level.

 

[Chronictank]

I will it play it if they encourage group leveling, ie making a group and fighting monsters that give group bonus XP. Thats the fun, meeting new peeps etc. WoW was just mind numbingly boring having to solo pretty much every level.

daoc is the same...
When wow started there was a group whenever i wanted one, now most the people are high level groups are few and far between

I see nothing wrong with taking ideas from wow, it is a very good game for casual gamers, it was never designed to have PVP it was just added afterwards because people wanted it.
The PVE in wow is by far the best i have played in a long time (bar guild wars), and is leaps and bounds beyond what daoc has
From AI of npc's to actually having real stories behind core gameplay (which in daoc we have never really seen since Epics)
A game with WOW pve and daoc pvp would be damn near perfect imo

 

[Helme]

Yea i know what u mean tohtori, i was just giving more of a personal opinion about it cuz im more of a 8v8 person, sry shud of said so

but yea one problem is that there is too many ppl, but that can easily be cured by giving us a lobby rather than just a simple queue system, so u can choose who u wanna fight, maybe also some ''friend system'' too....

Ironic you should complain about gear requirements for PvP'ing in WoW then mention DAoC's equally insane 8v8 gear requirements for competing. Especially considering that you can get competitive PvP gear by playing 1 hour per week in WoW, it will just take you 2 months or so, and people who play 6 hours per day won't have any edge over you after you collected your gear after said 2 months.

Hell, I have spent but a fraction of the time I spent on my Runemaster in DAoC on gearing up THREE characters in WoW to compete in PvP.

Now, im not gonna asskiss Blizzard too much but the fact is that when it comes to gear, Warcraft is the easiest game to get it in, but that doesn't mean the PvP system has other problems. Mainly in my opinion a very biased lead designer(Warriors being the overpowered class, they nerfing the Warriors healers instead of the Warrior itself, Warrior just moves on to the next healer class etc.). Another thing that's very bad is the fact that battlegrounds just aren't fun anymore, Warsong and Alterac Valley were a blast when they were released but now after the 5000000th game in either one of them it's starting to get boring, and Arathi Basin or Eye of the Storm has the problem with it taking far, far too long in this casual friendly game. You honestly don't want to spend half an hour loosing a game with 0 chance of turning it around.

This said however, WoTLK seems very promising with it's Lake Wintergrasp or whatever, and the new battleground with destroyable keeps and stuff. Overall thought, I have way more 'faith' in Blizzard than in Mythic when it comes to what to play in 08, mainly because Mythic failed way harder at PvE in the past than Blizzard has "failed" on PvP, and while PvP is fun - challenging and entertaining raid encounters can be really nice as a break from the constant 'owning'.

edit: Another plus after reading Chronic's post more closely and which is probably one of the main reasons I truly enjoy WoW as an MMO overall - the story. It's very interesting, it doesn't go with the standard "orcs are bad" approach, it tries new things and has almost unlimited amounts of previous lore to draw upon, or even replay with one of the most brilliant MMO ideas ever. Caverns of Time, travel back and relive the Warcraft 1, 2 or 3 moments.

 

[grizzy]

warriors can be outplayed by alot of class combos... atleast like a year ago it was true, dno for now.

it will just take you 2 months or so

oh and plz show me how to get full best pvp gear in 2 months with blues/greens
PLZ Do.. and i will rob a bank or 2 for u

 

[Helme]

Step 1:
Find 1-4 arena partners who can play the same time as you.

Step 2:
Form an arena team and make sure your team plays the 10 minimum games per week, of these you actually only need to play 3 in total, and regardless if you win or loose - you still get points(average game time including the queue by the way, is around 5 minutes, until you start being able to fight back).

Step 3:
Spend your now stockpiled, very low effort points on topgrade gear.


Other ways to get it way faster, is for example to grind 200k or so honor, which is easily done nowdays in a few weeks of casual BG PuG'ing. Both these methods requires 0 previous gear, and very very little time. Hell, when I was gearing up my Druid who used to be Feral before I stopped play it at TBC release - I went around doing PvP in my Stormrage set because being the cheapskate I am, I had disenchanted all other gear

--

Regarding your Warrior comment, currently they are top3 in every single arena bracket, unchallenged maintanks in PvE, aswell as really, really good DPS. Their only "bad" side is the fact that they have problems with soloing elite mobs and duels, both which are so very, very small parts of the game.

 

[Afran]

oh and plz show me how to get full best pvp gear in 2 months with blues/greens
PLZ Do.. and i will rob a bank or 2 for u

thats very easy

 

[grizzy]

Ok fine.. things have apparently changed last time i played but there is still 1 other big issue, which is cross server for arenas and BGs, ye its a good idea but its implemented very poorly. It removes any sense of community from it and makes it feel like a grind again. Maybe just playing with ur friends is enough for u but i want to go over to irc or some forums and have a laugh etc every now and then. Most likely there will be an unofficial FH server appointed so thats covered in WAR already

 

[Helme]

Ok fine.. things have apparently changed last time i played but there is still 1 other big issue, which is cross server for arenas and BGs, ye its a good idea but its implemented very poorly. It removes any sense of community from it and makes it feel like a grind again. Maybe just playing with ur friends is enough for u but i want to go over to irc or some forums and have a laugh etc every now and then. Most likely there will be an unofficial FH server appointed so thats covered in WAR already

If you play arena seriously on any of the 'bigger' battlegroups, there is a quite elitist community that is comparable to FH RvR section during its golden days.

Otherwise I agree, even though my servers community pre-battlegroups were dominated by chinese teams(no, not goldfarmers etc. just chinese players avoiding the 3 hour per day time penalty in China).