Vista 64bit

[Aada]

What am i actually buying?

i see 2-3 versions of Ultimate Vista.

Is this dabs.com - Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit OEM (66R-02034) what i need?

Will be upgrading from Vista Prem btw.

 

[Kryten]

That will be fine, although you can't do an upgrade installation from an OEM disc like that one. You need (i believe, unless theres a hack somewhere), the retail one for twice the price.
But I'd stick with the OEM and do a reinstallation if necessary

 

[Aada]

That will be fine, although you can't do an upgrade installation from an OEM disc like that one. You need (i believe, unless theres a hack somewhere), the retail one for twice the price.
But I'd stick with the OEM and do a reinstallation if necessary

Cheers for the help how long does it take to actually install vista? i have never done an OS installation before to be honest.

And does a fresh installation mean your harddrives are wiped clean?

 

[Kryten]

Yeah, fresh installations (ideally) do so on a clean drive, by default the only way around that is the upgrade installation from retail discs

Depending on the hardware and drivers installed, I'd say 20mins to half an hour would be fairly typical for a Vista install on modern systems. I'd advise you spend a lot of time preparing beforehand and collecting 64bit drivers before taking the plunge, getting them all extracted and stuck on a usb pen or cdr - will save a lot of time waste

 

[Jonty]

Hi Aada

Just to echo what Kryten said, backup your files, download the new drivers in advance, and then go for a clean install. Vista's upgrade process is good, but a fresh installprovides the best experience. Once the setup procedure begins, you'll be given the option of where to install and prompted to format the drive before proceeding. It's all very straightforward, so don't worry. Good luck!

Kind regards

Jonty

P.S. Technically we're not elligible to use OEM copies unless building a new PC, but I think Microsoft implicitly accepts that enthusiasts often upgrade this to save money, since the retail versions are comparatively exorbitant.

 

[Kryten]

Aye, it's a bit of a grey area. Hell, it's a lot of a grey area.
I've run it past a few Microsoft folks including those in their business licencing department (whilst idley chatting) and even their thoughts are all over the place.
Retailers don't really mind what they do, a lot of them get around MS's restrictions by supplying the OS with "non peripheral hardware" or very clearly stating the purpose of the software, that it must be used with new builds only.

MS's folks have told me previously that they're not really too fussed, as long as the licence stays with that machine; even though they're fully aware a majority of OEM OS's purchased through online retailers will generally stay with the user rather than the machine. Point being, there's not really any easy way to moderate or control it, and they're fully aware of that.

In my personal opinion, it's best that it's not abused, but it's not doing anyone any harm. It's good of MS to allow it in the way they do.

 

[Jonty]

I agree Kryt, and it's certainly preferable to people using pirated versions. How retailers fulfill the 'non peripheral hardware' requirement makes me chuckle, though, sometimes you'll get a USB cable or a stick of ancient RAM or some such tat

Kind regards

 

[Kryten]

Aye, I think I had an old stick of EDO Ram when purchasing XP god knows how long ago I think that was either Scan or Aria.

 

[Aada]

Guys what drivers do i need to collect?

 

[Kryten]

Anything you've got in your system, just very specifically 64bit versions.
Some manufacturers bundle the 64bit drivers in with the 32bit ones which makes life a bit easier, but others you need to find the exact right driver for 64bit - 32bit drivers don't work whatsoever.

 

[Aada]

Anything you've got in your system, just very specifically 64bit versions.
Some manufacturers bundle the 64bit drivers in with the 32bit ones which makes life a bit easier, but others you need to find the exact right driver for 64bit - 32bit drivers don't work whatsoever.

ok you mean graphics card drivers?

 

[Jonty]

Hi Aada

Just go through your computer components and peripherals in your head. The most common drivers you'll need are for your graphics card, motherboard chipset, soundcard (maybe integrated with your motherboard, so it depends), network card / wireless (again, maybe it's integrated with your motherboard), keyboard and mouse, printer etc. Windows will help you with generic drivers for most things, but it's always best to have the latest specific drivers from the manufacturer.

Kind regards

Jonty

P.S. If you look at some of the Windows and/or 64-bit communities, you'll often find lists of 64-bit drivers, so then all you need to do is scan through and think about what applies to you.

 

[Aada]

Hi Aada

Just go through your computer components and peripherals in your head. The most common drivers you'll need are for your graphics card, motherboard chipset, soundcard (maybe integrated with your motherboard, so it depends), network card / wireless (again, maybe it's integrated with your motherboard), keyboard and mouse, printer etc. Windows will help you with generic drivers for most things, but it's always best to have the latest specific drivers from the manufacturer.

Kind regards

Jonty

P.S. If you look at some of the Windows and/or 64-bit communities, you'll often find lists of 64-bit drivers, so then all you need to do is scan through and think about what applies to you.

Ok sounds like Vista64bit is alot of hassle lol.

My new computer should arrive anytime today so just trying to get it all ready.

 

[Jonty]

hehe, it probably sounds like a lot of hassle, but it's no different to finding proper 32-bit drivers. Thankfully manufacturers are much better these days about providing 64-bit equivalents, so you shouldn't encounter too many problems.

Good luck with everything If we don't hear from you later then we'll assume everything went disasterously wrong

Kind regards

 

[Embattle]

It isn't a massive hassle, although it does raise the question as to why you are doing it?

 

[Jonty]

it does raise the question as to why you are doing it?

Microsoft PR people told me 64-bit is twice as good as 32-bit, hehe

You're right, the benefits of 64-bit are limited unless you know why need it. However, it's still encouraging that more people are switching voluntarily (some OEMs are now choosing 64-bit versions by default). More demand will hopefully mean better 64-bit drivers and software support, although that said, Windows 7 will still likely have a 32-bit version.

Kind regards

 

[Aada]

Microsoft PR people told me 64-bit is twice as good as 32-bit, hehe

You're right, the benefits of 64-bit are limited unless you know why need it. However, it's still encouraging that more people are switching voluntarily (some OEMs are now choosing 64-bit versions by default). More demand will hopefully mean better 64-bit drivers and software support, although that said, Windows 7 will still likely have a 32-bit version.

Kind regards

The main reason is i have 4 gig of ram if i didn't it would be going to waste.

 

[soze]

The main reason is i have 4 gig of ram if i didn't it would be going to waste.

Unless you have a free updrage path i would not view getting the other 700mb of ram as worth doing. Try to get a 64 bit cd of a mate and trial it before you buy it. Then benchmark your PC under both and you can make a choice based on performance increase. Will also let you see if you have any driver issues.

 

[Aada]

Unless you have a free updrage path i would not view getting the other 700mb of ram as worth doing. Try to get a 64 bit cd of a mate and trial it before you buy it. Then benchmark your PC under both and you can make a choice based on performance increase. Will also let you see if you have any driver issues.

I will see how things go first then before i upgrade but my gf is stubborn and thinks if we aint using what we have then its wasted money.

 

[soze]

I will see how things go first then before i upgrade but my gf is stubborn and thinks if we aint using what we have then its wasted money.

Take a gig of ram out and tell her you just saved her £100

I have access to both versions and have 4 gb of ram but i had a driver problem and also my keyboard software would not run so i dropped back to 32 bit. Thats why i think a trial version would be best to check your machine out with it first.

 

[Aada]

Take a gig of ram out and tell her you just saved her £100

I have access to both versions and have 4 gb of ram but i had a driver problem and also my keyboard software would not run so i dropped back to 32 bit. Thats why i think a trial version would be best to check your machine out with it first.

I was reading about something just now about how you can enter something in the command screen so your 32bit vista can use the 4 gig of ram?

Anyone tried this?

Under Vista 32-bit:
1. Under Vista 32-bit (with at least 4GB memory installed regardless how much you see of it in windows) go START
2. Navigate to programs...etc until you see a black icon named "command prompt"
3. rightclick it and select: run as administrator. A big black box appears
4. In the big black box, type the following command: BCDEDIT /Set IncreaseUserVa 3072
5. Press enter to execute the command
6. reboot your computer

7(optional). If you don't like it for some reason you can revert the switch the same procedure but replace step 4 with this: entering bcdedit /deletevalue increaseuserva (this undoes the switch)

 

[inactionman]

Can really make a machine unstable, and only programmes that are specially written for it can use the extra memory.

 

[Kryten]

No, that fix does not make the extra ram usable as you'd like it to. It changes the way memory is dished out to a small extent, the Windows system is permanently loaded in part of it, and the rest is useable or allocatable to other running programs (like your games), and that hack just re-prioritises that a little. It's not worth doing.

I do however personally believe we should start making the shift to 64bit now, if we think we need it or not. Like many others in the industry, I know full well the move to full 64bit systems should have been made way back, around the time of Windows 2000. XP should certainly have never been 32bit. It was a big enough change in the OS from 98 and 2000 to warrant replacing all drivers etc then, but perhaps OEM's just didn't envisage hardware specs moving as fast as they have.

Depending on who you believe, the next windows will likely be 64bit only, and won't even be mentioned in the specs. It's a good move but made far too late.

In general I will echo the other sentiments: the 700 or so MB of memory you'll "find" by using 64bit won't be worth hassle if you're not sure what you're doing, but you will be futureproofing yourself to a fashion by doing it. I always look to the future more than to the present when speccing up systems, because the future is immediate and the present is always past. 32bit is past.

 

[Embattle]

I agree with what others have said, the reality is that extra memory won't make much difference and you might actually end up with more problems than the solution is actually worth.

The 64bit argument has a simple solution that only Microsoft can provide, to make the next version of Windows (7.0) 64bit only but sadly I tend to think they'll still play the fence game due to how they are now managed which involves more consideration for the market. The other factors that'll cause more of a shift is the timeframe, Windows 7 is due for release in 2010 and by then I've little doubt there will be more of a need to break the 32bit limit whether by genuine need or too much bloatware.

 

[Kryten]

You know, Embattle, I was thinking something similar myself this morning; would there really have been such a need to break that limit on a home PC if the software we were using wasn't so hungry?
I might be a fan of Vista (one of the very few I know) but I know full well how XP can be made to run with very little resource - either in full installation or "Lite" or XPE versions, many bootable on CD.
Avoiding the crap you get preinstalled on most OEM systems, especially the likes of HP Compaq, Dell, Acer and IBM, and then some 3rd party software that does more harm than good; Norton home products for one.

I've a box at work that I just use for pratting around on, testing software. It's heavily firewalled and AV'd up to the nines via hardware rather than software, so gets used for all sorts of "testing and trialling of dodgy stuff". It's a Dual Xeon (P3) 900mhz box with 512mb ram and 20gb of SCSI storage.
It is absolutely lightning fast, more so than many of the overladen Core based systems with multiple gigabytes of ram. Just because it's a bare installation with all the fancies turned off.

 

[Jonty]

Hi guys

I agree that ~700MB of RAM isn't worth the effort alone (and I applaud you for saying you chose 64-bit because your gf is stubborn ... *whipcrack* ), but I also agree it's worthwhile for the futureproofing. Vista has a little added security for the 64-bit version, and drivers aside, most software can run without a hiccup. As more 64-bit optimized software becomes available, you'll be able to take advantage (for those with 32-bit versions, you can request a 64-bit disc from Microsoft).

As for Windows 7, I recall it will be the last version of Windows to have both 32-bit and 64-bit versions (unless something dramatic happens in between now and then). We all know the benefits of 64-bit, but right now they still have a sizeable number of business and home users with 32-bit hardware. The one saving grace might be Hypervisor to handle legacy support via virtualization, but of course not all hardware is capable of virtualization. I'd prefer they took the lead and made the break from the past, but I can appreciate their business would take a huge hit if they did.

Kind regards

 

[Kryten]

That's exactly it, I keep hearing so many differing stories.
It's sort of funny really, the hardware for virtualisation (often referred to as ViiV and god knows how many other names) is only really present on processors that already support 64bit (EM64T, AMD64 etc). Catch 22 there.

I don't recommend using Vista on anything that isn't 64bit capable anyway, just for the obvious performance issues, and I can't really see anyone on hardware that doesnt support it using Windows 7. But only time will tell there, so we'll have to wait and see

 

[soze]

I can't see any chance of Windows 7 being 64 bit only as it is supposed to increase compatibility not decrease it. Vista got a huge slagging for being too different to XP so making everyone have to worry about 64 bit as well would be a bad move imo.

Im not against 64 bit Windows but when i installed it my keyboard even with 64 bit drivers failed so i bailed back to 32 bit.

 

[GReaper]

Given the ever decreasing cost of RAM, by the time the next version of Windows arrives (I think the estimate is 2010) I'd guess that 4GB of RAM would be standard - but possibly a bit lower in the budget area. What would be the point in any manufacturer putting a 32 bit operating system on such machines?

MS should concentrate on a 64 bit version for the next Windows and give end users a license/key for older 32 bit versions of Windows running in a virtualised environment. Whilst it wouldn't help with incompatible hardware, it would help users with old incompatible software.

I'm a little bit annoyed after getting Vista64 that I'd have to buy extra licenses if I want to run virtualised XP instances. It would really be a great help if MS included a license which allows me to run a few copies of XP on a Vista machine - but obviously not on any other machine. I'm sure businesses would appreciate being able to run old software in a virtualised environment instead of having to update or upgrade just to support the newest version of Windows.

 

[Kryten]

Not half a bad idea there. It wouldn't even need to be entirely virtualised - so as opposed to Virtual PC or VMWare, something more along the lines of Cygwin. A lot of the ports of Linux based software runs on a very limited "virtual space" and it does it rather well. It might even exist for all I know