Very disturbing thing I saw

[Thadius]

Thanks for showing me that mate, never heard of that before. I am not a big fan of religion or any thing to do with it hehe. - and don't trust Wiki.

But think I'll read a bit more about it, thanks.

Yea, i read that out of interest

 

[- English -]

its very sad tbh..

 

[old.Tohtori]

Communism is great!

On paper

So is democracy

Just had to.

 

[echome]

So is democracy

Just had to.

So is all ideologies...
That's the good thing about them, you can write down your own thoughts about Utopia without the need to face reality.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So is all ideologies...
That's the good thing about them, you can write down your own thoughts about Utopia without the need to face reality.

Yeah, reality bites rather hard.

Hell, even Hitler has good ideas and some nazi thingies are rather "should take heed" material.

We need to unite 'em all really.

 

[echome]

Yeah, reality bites rather hard.

Hell, even Hitler has good ideas and some nazi thingies are rather "should take heed" material.

We need to unite 'em all really.

Yeah as my roommate always say, Hitler just didnt got the time to finish his project... But he is also a bit rightwinged(sp?) minded hehe.
We got some great discussions about our views on politics. So much easier to agree to disagree over a bottle of Cpt. Morgan.

Unite 'em all.. isnt that what "The Third Way" is about? - Like in England and Germany?

 

[Mojo]

I didn't read the whole thread so i don't know if this was mentiond but iirc the photographer who took the original pic (and left the kid to die) got a load of shit and eventually hung himself.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Unite 'em all.. isnt that what "The Third Way" is about? - Like in England and Germany?

Hmm, not sure. Might be actually, quite sure i'm not the first to say "let's take all the good things and bunch 'em together and see how that cookie crumbles"

 

[Huntingtons]

ideologies suck long live apathy!

 

[kivik]

So basicly it's about how sensitive you are towards the issue that might be associated with the picture. The guy who made that, might have not thought about shock value, but just use the kid as he would any other subject. Like you said, they would be on equal grounds. Which again, isn't right since they are not by default.

Oh I see.



<hides>

 

[Thadius]

Oh I see.



<hides>

Why does that polar bear appear to be smiling?

 

[Mojo]

Why does that polar bear appear to be smiling?

Cos it put rohypnol on the seal and is about to have some funky funky with the other bear.

 

[Huntingtons]

its pretty pimp to hunt on icefloats! imagine pirates plundering on icefloats!

 

[Calaen]

Very sad picture indeed. God knows why a cowboy was mentioned (might as well have said spaceman or a deep sea diver for the point it made), but I think an adult would have attacked the camera man and ate him if he was hungry. The child on the other hand could do fuck all.

So the picture of a starving child being watched by a vulture regardless of colour is very sad.

 

[Chronictank]

I'm probably going to be real unpopular, but personally i think they should stop the aid altogether.
the rationalle behind this is that billions upon billions have been pumped into Africa, and what has it achieved? in the grand scheme of things relatively little.

it's a vicious circle, the infant mortality rate is high. so they have more kids. More kids = larger demand on food, larger demand on food = more charity needed. The country is now dependant on charity rather than it being there as a helping hand.
I think all the money should be stopped from going to hand outs, but instead be put into improving infrastructure and creating farmable land (such as in the US and China where deserts are being made into farmable land) to create a sustainable approach rather than, put bluntly, giving handouts which are rapidly becoming too little to support the increasing population of refugees. As well as pressure being put on the government to put money into rebuilding North Africa rather than direction all funds to the gold/diamond/oil rich south

As for the whole jews and holocaust thing, i am with Thadius. its been 62 years, get over it ... that shit is going on TODAY
Israel is still bombing the fuck out of Palestine, Gaza and the West Bank whenever they feel like it
Hamas-Fatah are still killing each other
The middle east is still in chaos (Sa'dah, India, Iraq, Afghanistan (which is now in a state of emergency).
The countless wars over race/religion/creed in Africa (Fafur, Chafian-Sudaneese conflict, Ituri etc etc..)

to name a few, not to mention Mr Bush going on a rampage invading any country he feels like that morning

 

[Thadius]

I'm probably going to be real unpopular, but personally i think they should stop the aid altogether.
the rationalle behind this is that billions upon billions have been pumped into Africa, and what has it achieved? in the grand scheme of things relatively little.

it's a vicious circle, the infant mortality rate is high. so they have more kids. More kids = larger demand on food, larger demand on food = more charity needed. The country is now dependant on charity rather than it being there as a helping hand.
I think all the money should be stopped from going to hand outs, but instead be put into improving infrastructure and creating farmable land (such as in the US and China where deserts are being made into farmable land) to create a sustainable approach rather than, put bluntly, giving handouts which are rapidly becoming too little to support the increasing population of refugees. As well as pressure being put on the government to put money into rebuilding North Africa rather than direction all funds to the gold/diamond/oil rich south

As for the whole jews and holocaust thing, i am with Thadius. its been 62 years, get over it ... that shit is going on TODAY
Israel is still bombing the fuck out of Palestine, Gaza and the West Bank whenever they feel like it
Hamas-Fatah are still killing each other
The middle east is still in chaos (Sa'dah, India, Iraq, Afghanistan (which is now in a state of emergency).
The countless wars over race/religion/creed in Africa (Fafur, Chafian-Sudaneese conflict, Ituri etc etc..)

to name a few, not to mention Mr Bush going on a rampage invading any country he feels like that morning

Cant agree with you more there. Afric is now dependandant or aid its too bone idle to do anything else.

Like in the UK, 16 year old mums get everything. Dole queuers stay on the dole as its easier than getting a job.

A lot of the time, its just laziness.

As for the Jew thing, I lost all sympathy when I see reports of Israel flattening whole apartment blocks to apparently kill one guy. Its sick

 

[Mojo]

Cant agree with you more there. Afric is now dependandant or aid its too bone idle to do anything else.

Like in the UK, 16 year old mums get everything. Dole queuers stay on the dole as its easier than getting a job.

A lot of the time, its just laziness.

We should just send all the dossers in the Eu to Africa and use a lump sum to drop food in once a year and watch the free for all riots. If we televised it we could even use the ad money to pay for the food so we actually don't have to give them anything. The rest of us will have extra cash to buy ourselves more luxary goods we don't need then.

Hows that for a plan?

 

[noblok]

I'm probably going to be real unpopular, but personally i think they should stop the aid altogether. The rationalle behind this is that billions upon billions have been pumped into Africa, and what has it achieved? in the grand scheme of things relatively little.

it's a vicious circle, the infant mortality rate is high. so they have more kids. More kids = larger demand on food, larger demand on food = more charity needed. The country is now dependant on charity rather than it being there as a helping hand.
I think all the money should be stopped from going to hand outs, but instead be put into improving infrastructure and creating farmable land (such as in the US and China where deserts are being made into farmable land) to create a sustainable approach rather than, put bluntly, giving handouts which are rapidly becoming too little to support the increasing population of refugees. As well as pressure being put on the government to put money into rebuilding North Africa rather than direction all funds to the gold/diamond/oil rich south

First off: I do think that charity is only a second best solution. What is really needed are structural changes on a large scale. (For which I'll refer to an earlier post of mine: click. I also like your suggestions.)

However: this is very unlikely to happen any time soon, so I consider it my duty to help these people to the best of my abilities. Stoping aid altogether will not help them. Of course one should make sure that the charity organisation one supports helps as effective as possible, so I try to do that. Not all charity organisations just drop food/money (and thus promote dependance). Some organisations actually help people stand on their own feet (e.g. oxfam). Also, there are organisations supplying medical care and/or education. I don't think this makes people more dependant. In fact, I think it empowers them.

There are indeed countries which don't make good use of the help (I believe the classic example is Zambia), but there are some who do (e.g. Botswana, I believe). In the first case the corrupt/incompetent government should probably be bypassed and help should be given directly to the people. Although this is a bit risky, because it infringes a state's autonomy.

I know very little about economics and whatever else one should know in order to form a balanced judgement on this matter though, so read this post as a most humble opinion.

 

[Iceforge]

Have you been listening to some BNP propaganda telling you the Holocaust was exaggerated or something? The Jews as a race were persucted in a method and number without precedent in world history, and you take offense to them 'whining' about it? well boo fucking hoo.

Finally at least dicks like Bono are actually raising money to save lives in the worlds poorest are, which is a fuck of alot more than any of our governments are doing.

estimated 5-7 million jews was killed during WW2...
estimated total of 11 million was killed in camps during WW2...

estimated 13.7 million natives was killed during the settlement of America...

 

[Thadius]

estimated 5-7 million jews was killed during WW2...
estimated total of 11 million was killed in camps during WW2...

estimated 13.7 million natives was killed during the settlement of America...

15-30 million died in Stalin's Gulags

So the Soviets and the Yanks are as bad as each other

 

[Thadius]

Have you been listening to some BNP propaganda telling you the Holocaust was exaggerated or something? The Jews as a race were persucted in a method and number without precedent in world history, and you take offense to them 'whining' about it? well boo fucking hoo.

No, i just fail to see why the Jewish people should get all the sympathy when persecution and murder has been going on for years before and after.
They are as bad as the Nazis with the way they treat Palestine. Hypocrites

 

[Azurus]

estimated 5-7 million jews was killed during WW2...
estimated total of 11 million was killed in camps during WW2...

estimated 13.7 million natives was killed during the settlement of America...

What point are you trying to make here? The Holocaust was carried out over 2-3 years, how long did the settlement of America take? Yiu can't just quote numbers while completely ignoring any context....

Oh and btw Thad i completely disagree with the majority of the decisions taken by the Israeli government, but the actions embarked upon by them cannot even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Holocaust, the comparison just isn't there to be made. A large amount of the blame rests with the geniuses who decided to create the state of Israel without any regard for the turmoil they would create in the region, guess who they were?

 

[Gamah]

Cant agree with you more there. Afric is now dependandant or aid its too bone idle to do anything else.

Bone Idle?

For Centrys Europe has exploited Africa because they were less developed than us, we took natural resources and anything else we wanted. Reading any of your posts is like reading a copy of the express.

So you think a war torn country's civilians dying of starvation are "bone idle?" The only reason Africa is in so much war is because rather than Europe helping them set up stable governments back when we pillaged everything we could take.

 

[Thadius]

Bone Idle?

For Centrys Europe has exploited Africa because they were less developed than us, we took natural resources and anything else we wanted. Reading any of your posts is like reading a copy of the express.

So you think a war torn country's civilians dying of starvation are "bone idle?" The only reason Africa is in so much war is because rather than Europe helping them set up stable governments back when we pillaged everything we could take.

If you look, a lot of those countries used to have stable governments. Its certain ones, like Zimbabwe, whos leaders abuse there position.

Im just waiting for the UN to get off its backside and take him out of power

 

[Azurus]

Bone Idle?

For Centrys Europe has exploited Africa because they were less developed than us, we took natural resources and anything else we wanted. Reading any of your posts is like reading a copy of the express.

So you think a war torn country's civilians dying of starvation are "bone idle?" The only reason Africa is in so much war is because rather than Europe helping them set up stable governments back when we pillaged everything we could take.

QFT

World superpowers have traditionally been built and maintained by establishing extractive economies which fuck over the native people in the respective countries.

 

[Thadius]

QFT

World superpowers have traditionally been built and maintained by establishing extractive economies which fuck over the native people in the respective countries.

Your probably right, however thats how the world works.

If we didnt, we would all be communists, yes?

 

[noblok]

No. As a matter of fact, we are bound to actively do something about it by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care (UDHR, Article 25).
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized (UDHR, Article 28, see Article 22).

 

[Azurus]

Your probably right, however thats how the world works.

If we didnt, we would all be communists, yes?

No communism is quite seperate, calling everyone who doesn't believe in Imperialism a communist is quite an ignorant comment.

 

[Iceforge]

15-30 million died in Stalin's Gulags

So the Soviets and the Yanks are as bad as each other

Yeah, read it was estimated the biggest genicide(sp?) in history, unfortunatly I couldn't find the numbers and numbers works to great when illustrating a point

 

[Iceforge]

What point are you trying to make here? The Holocaust was carried out over 2-3 years, how long did the settlement of America take? Yiu can't just quote numbers while completely ignoring any context....

Oh and btw Thad i completely disagree with the majority of the decisions taken by the Israeli government, but the actions embarked upon by them cannot even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Holocaust, the comparison just isn't there to be made. A large amount of the blame rests with the geniuses who decided to create the state of Israel without any regard for the turmoil they would create in the region, guess who they were?

You are right that it was done in a lot quicker fashion than the killings of the natives during the settlement of America, I am not going to argue against that, and it was also clearly more organised and cruel, no doubt, so you are absolutly right they was killed in a method never seen before, but the numbers part fall sort of flat, as even if over 1.000 years, more people killed is more people killed.

Also, if you read the numbers, you'll notice that Jews only counted half the people killed in the holocaust, they was indeed the most suffering population group, but the rest of the dead counts for something too...