Politics US Election 2020

[Deebs]

 

[Wij]

They need to bring consequences for government figures flat-out lying to the public here too tbh.

E.g. listen:


View: https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1203605490137255936

 

[Scouse]

In 2008 and 2012 they elected a black man not a populist. It's almost as if the populist being elected was a reaction to the black man being elected.

The impacts of the 2008 crash took a while to bite. As is perfectly normal. It's like the Great Depression m8 - effects take a while to bite hard enough. The correlations with economic hardship and social unrest or political destabilisation are pretty clear.

 

[Scouse]

BTW @Wij - I don't really think it's in the ken of the GoP or the Dem's to do anything about it.

Our governments are clearly just middle management layers and our democracies largely democracies in name only.

 

[Gwadien]

The impacts of the 2008 crash took a while to bite. As is perfectly normal. It's like the Great Depression m8 - effects take a while to bite hard enough. The correlations with economic hardship and social unrest or political destabilisation are pretty clear.

Mmm The Wall Street crashed coincided with the rise of Communism so the elites backed the shouty people who wanted to put down communism.

That's why Hitler got into power, not because the people wanted it, because the people were told they wanted it.

Thats why there's so many correlations with Trump and what he's managed to get away with, because so long as the crosshairs are at fictional extreme leftists threats rather than the people who got wealthier whilst everyone else became poorer.

 

[Scouse]

That's why Hitler got into power, not because the people wanted it, because the people were told they wanted it.

Doesn't matter what they were told - if they weren't amenable to *insert suggestion here* in the first place then people can be told whatever they like, they ain't going to revolt.

Conditions have to be right. Even Aristotle knew that a large, well-off, politically-empowered middle class resulted in the most stable economic systems. And middle class wealth in particular was decimated during the 2008 crash (because middle class wealth tends to be tied up in property - whereas the rich hold stocks and shares - so the trillions getting pumped into that asset class has helped the rich, whilst the middle classes are still in the shit).

You cannot explain our current issues on "thick people" - as much as an oversimplistic narrative wishes it was so. Middle class people voted for Trump, for Brexit. You don't vote for populists or massive economic uncertainty - you don't hit the "fuck it" button unless you're crying out for a change. And you don't cry out for change if you're doing well.

We're not doing well. That's why Trump got in. That's why we voted for Brexit. Our economy isn't working for us - and, predictably, shit is happening.

 

[Wij]

Doesn't matter what they were told - if they weren't amenable to *insert suggestion here* in the first place then people can be told whatever they like, they ain't going to revolt.

Conditions have to be right. Even Aristotle knew that a large, well-off, politically-empowered middle class resulted in the most stable economic systems. And middle class wealth in particular was decimated during the 2008 crash (because middle class wealth tends to be tied up in property - whereas the rich hold stocks and shares - so the trillions getting pumped into that asset class has helped the rich, whilst the middle classes are still in the shit).

You cannot explain our current issues on "thick people" - as much as an oversimplistic narrative wishes it was so. Middle class people voted for Trump, for Brexit. You don't vote for populists or massive economic uncertainty - you don't hit the "fuck it" button unless you're crying out for a change. And you don't cry out for change if you're doing well.

We're not doing well. That's why Trump got in. That's why we voted for Brexit. Our economy isn't working for us - and, predictably, shit is happening.

Brexit voting was skewed heavily towards the retired who arguably were sheltered from economic fallout much more than the young. The young are the ones paying for higher education and looking at having to work until they are 75. My Mum and Dad loved the idea of Brexit and they have stable retirement incomes and don't need a job and don't have a mortgage. Doesn't really fit.

The US voter response to the Great Depression was FDR not some Hitler dude. The America First goons didn't get very far back then.

 

[Wij]

This thread by the way about MAGA Facebook dominance is A++


View: https://twitter.com/TrollZoo/status/1328019915006234633

 

[Scouse]

Brexit voting was skewed heavily towards the retired who arguably were sheltered from economic fallout much more than the young. ... Doesn't really fit.

Yes the retired voted for it - but you don't win a majority on them, so it absolutely fits.

It's not thick people, it's not retired people, it's a disenfranchised, economically pressured significant proportion of our populations.

The US voter response to the Great Depression was FDR not some Hitler dude. The America First goons didn't get very far back then.

They voted for change, whether it's hitler change or FDR change - they wanted and desparately needed change.

Wanting "different from the shit we've got now" is the important thing - the end result depends on what's going on at the time and who's there to take advantage of the shit situation.

But the common theme is the economic problems - and primarily the too-harshly-squeezed middle, rather than the poor (who are always shat on, but unable to muster enough without the middle on board).

 

[Wij]

Yes the retired voted for it - but you don't win a majority on them, so it absolutely fits.

Wtf? They don't count because they don't fit?

Another group that voted strongly were Home Counties and country side. When I was driving through Gloucester in 2016 LEAVE was everywhere. Those people ARE NOT poor. Shall we discount them too? Essex and Kent weren't exactly feeling the pinch either.

Skirtland and NI have their fair share of poverty but managed to not vote for Brexit.

Yes - there was some movement in the north based on false promises of £350m extra per week for the NHS but you wouldn't have got a majority based on those alone either.

 

[Job]

Watching good old Tucker Carlson interviewing some political security expert who was saying domestic terrorism is now the major threat facing america.
The Biden innaugaration is going to be the most secure event in its history.
The entire left are calling for the complete purge of the republican party...pressurising...sorry blackmailing corporations and institutions to remove degrees, sack and basically destroy the lives of anyone who ever agreed with Trump, closing down all conservative conversation.

Its going to keep getting worse till the country is ungovernable, 10s of thousands of people will be arrested, a giant chasm is opening up and the outcome will be which side the military chooses.

Meanwhile the UK us passing a bill to allow children to work as spies for an extensive list of government agencies under the guise of protecting them from abuse, as in drug dealing etc.
Which us fine, but still its so close to 1984 is hilarious.

Children can be used as undercover spies to report on parents, covert intelligence bill reveals

The Government faces a major Lords revolt over the bill, which sees children used by more than 20 state agencies

www.telegraph.co.uk

"Nearly all children nowadays were horrible. What was worst of all was that by means of such organizations as the Spies they were systematically turned into ungovernable little savages, and yet this produced in them no tendency whatever to rebel against the discipline of the Party. On the contrary, they adored the Party and everything connected with it…. All their ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the State, against foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals. It was almost normal for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children." (George Orwell, 1984).

 

[Wij]

 

[Wij]

The free speech guys right?


View: https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1348604359051907073

 

[Wij]

US is paying for letting dark money and disinformation run riot

Billionaires such as Charles Koch spent a fortune convincing ordinary Americans to doubt everything - they shouldn't be surprised that violence and division has followed

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/areidross/status/1348752037828182016

 

[Job]

Armed group planning ‘huge uprising’ in DC if Trump removed by 25th amendment, according to report

Protests also being planned at all 50 state capitols and US Capitol

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Deebs]

Poor old tRump.

Signature Bank is shutting down his personal accounts and Deutsche Bank are severing ties.

An Urgent Reckoning for the Trump Brand (Published 2021)

Companies and institutions are shunning President Trump and some associates after the attack on the U.S. Capitol. The Trump family business, built on luxury hospitality, is contemplating a reinvention.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Deebs]

Wait, what? You knew you were breaking the law and what consequences would follow. He is a CEO who has been placed on leave of absence. I suspect he will be looking for a new job shortly.

View attachment 43532

He is now out of a job. Sacked as CEO. Kharma.

 

[Raven]

Poor old tRump.

Signature Bank is shutting down his personal accounts and Deutsche Bank are severing ties.

An Urgent Reckoning for the Trump Brand (Published 2021)

Companies and institutions are shunning President Trump and some associates after the attack on the U.S. Capitol. The Trump family business, built on luxury hospitality, is contemplating a reinvention.

www.nytimes.com

Trouble is, he will use this as ammunition to stoke up the mob "woe are we etc, please send money and smash stuff up"

I think we can all be thankful that he has spent his term upsetting the military at every given opportunity, so I don't think some sort of coup is realistically on the cards, violent civil disobedience may well be though.

 

[Embattle]

The recent disagreement over free speech seems odd when no one said it shouldn't come with consequences, so people said what they said which was the free speech part of it are now those people are suffering the consequences of it. Ultimately private companies are under no obligation to be a megaphone or accelerator for your free speech, it comes down to a business decision and for a long while they held their nose while allowing some people to get away with creating a stink but there is a limit.

 

[Raven]

I think it's partly because of the internet and echo chambers. These people are used to saying whatever they like and never being challenged over it and certainly not that used to private companies having enough of their shit and ejecting them.

What they don't seem to understand is that they can still say what they like but for the most part will only be brought up if they act on them and private companies have zero obligation to give them a platform.

Also, an opinion on something is not the same thing as inciting violence, which will most certainly be met with a smack down from po-po.

For example, I can say Boris Johnson is a cunt and I hope he gets run over while out on his bike (not that I want that) which, while unpleasant is perfectly legal. Whereas asking people to make sure they run him over falls under incitement.

Context is also important, you just need to see how @Job completely fails to understand the concept of context. These people are largely thick as two short planks, easily whipped up into a frothing, angry mess by evil cunts with an agenda.

Like @Job, they are sheep who believe whatever they read on the internet then share that bullshit with fellow nutters in echo chambers. Also like Job, they are completely incapable of backing any of it up.

It's like a new kind of religion where god is Trump and all the other nutcases and the devil is Bill Gates and co.

 

[Aoami]

here's an idea - if you don't want to get censored, don't have shit opinions that you try and pass off as fact

 

[Scouse]

here's an idea - if you don't want to get censored, don't have shit opinions that you try and pass off as fact

So censor yourself. Only express permitted opinions. Only hold permitted views.

Perfect! If only the whole world can be forced to act and think this way!

 

[Aoami]

Is not the shit opinions bit, its the trying to pass nonsense off as fact.

I genuinely hope social media is just a minor footnote in history. For some reason people have decided it's a necessary part of every day life when it clearly isn't. Fucking normies ruining the internet.

 

[Scouse]

Is not the shit opinions bit, its the trying to pass nonsense off as fact.

That's 99.9% of human discussion.

Only science can prove what is factual and what isn't. But there are realms where you have accepted "facts" and realms where you have bones of contention that science cannot realistically be weighed in on (or you'd never get anything done).

You have to put up with people talking shit. Period. Any other "solution" is madness.

 

[Aoami]

That's 99.9% of human discussion.

Only science can prove what is factual and what isn't. But there are realms where you have accepted "facts" and realms where you have bones of contention that science cannot realistically be weighed in on (or you'd never get anything done).

You have to put up with people talking shit. Period. Any other "solution" is madness.

When you have people deliberately spreading misinformation on a mass scale, which is directly leading to people dieing, then its something that has to be discussed. Any other "solution" is madness.

As i said, rather than censoring individuals i'd get rid of cesspits like twitter and facebook completely. The only purposes they seem to serve are

a) marketing
b) spreading misformation

 

[DaGaffer]

So censor yourself. Only express permitted opinions. Only hold permitted views.

Perfect! If only the whole world can be forced to act and think this way!

Outright lying (and provably so) isn't an "opinion", its a lie. And when the supposed President is doing it, its a particularly dangerous lie. I don't understand why you want to defend lying.

 

[Scouse]

Outright lying (and provably so) isn't an "opinion", its a lie. And when the supposed President is doing it, its a particularly dangerous lie. I don't understand why you want to defend lying.

I don't want to defend lying. I've gone a long way to demonstrate that my objections to a lot of these freedom of speech issues are not specifically to do with Trump.

On him though - I think the Dem's impeachment proceedings are just a red rag to a bull (the mob) that also keeps him relevant. It's another own-goal IMO.


They should now just ignore Trump and start talking about what they're going to do to make a better world, a stronger democracy, a fairer economy. They should be presenting their legislative programme for their first year and show just how they're going to fix the massive structural problems to make life better for Americans, to make the country one that the world looks up to again.

But on the face of it they just want to kick Trump and pour oil on the fires of his supporters.

 

[Yoni]

I think they want to ensure he can not run for president again or benefit in his pocket for the mess he has made...

 

[Gwadien]

I don't want to defend lying. I've gone a long way to demonstrate that my objections to a lot of these freedom of speech issues are not specifically to do with Trump.

On him though - I think the Dem's impeachment proceedings are just a red rag to a bull (the mob) that also keeps him relevant. It's another own-goal IMO.


They should now just ignore Trump and start talking about what they're going to do to make a better world, a stronger democracy, a fairer economy. They should be presenting their legislative programme for their first year and show just how they're going to fix the massive structural problems to make life better for Americans, to make the country one that the world looks up to again.

But on the face of it they just want to kick Trump and pour oil on the fires of his supporters.

How do you appease Trump's rabid brainwashed masses?

I think they won't be really interested in addressing the actual problems of inequality and only want to see what they've been told will work; keeping Blacks in their place, shoot immigrants on sight and behead all the democrats.