Update: 8 days in - Good compensation or a slap in the face?

[Corran]

You have done nothing other than to suggest that GOA are doing everything they can.

I dont agree, simple as that.

As for money....I dont give a monkies....there is more than one way to compensate people for the lsoe of thier chars.

Oddly enough I dont care about the money, however, I do feel agrrieved when they give me 12 days as compensation yet I have been unable to play my RVR char for 40.....

Its all a moot point as I have seen previously what has been done with lag issues, server outages hacks etc and frankly nothing more suprises me.

Fwiw my chars items were restored yesterday, just shy of 40 days since I was last able to play them.

I would have been happy to have had my old stuff back and carry on my arti leveling 40 days ago but alas things did not pan out that way.

Its a shame I had to give up a game I've been playing for over 3 years...

Actually i stated the GM's are doing all they can, not the company as a whole. There may be other things they can do but it wouldnt exactly help at this time.

Lets assume that the techies etc day has no free time in it if they do their normal job on their normal days. They wont work extra time as they like their days off. So that takes the techies from being able to help.

GM's already working extra time and doing all they can.

That leaves.... hiring new staff, training them in the tools that needed to be used for the fix as well as teaching them indepth about the system... and then they may be able to begin help... hmmm this really is cost effective and speed things up honest... especially as it be a GM that needs to teach them most likely.

And you are talking about financial repayments you get... you complaining that you only got 12days compensation and way you talk you would want 40days compensation. If they change the policy for you others will request the same and then they are a huge sum out of pocket now rather then over 12+months time... I know what i would do.

And they aint forcing you to quit, your choice. So if you really think it that much of a shame you dont have to do it. But hey, have fun with you next game. I got no problem with you really, just trying to show you why you wont get more then they already offered. I may not like it, you may not like it but that aint either here or there, reality says you wont get more as it aint worth it from their point of view no doubt

 

[Esselinithia]

The simple reason is, that you got absolutely no clue about the true backgrounds. Everything you post here is based upon assumptions and your theories of how a gaming company is working respectively how all those parts are being connected behind the curtain. It´s wrong!

There is a major difference, I know how companies operate who offer online services, and I learned both side of it, we did research about what can be done to prevent downfall of a big hungarian portal, as part of my job, and our prognosis worked well. Imho if you know how it should work, as any other bussiness offering any other services, then you know what they should implement. This is the basis, not knowing their exact errors.

When you host game servers for any game, when you host databases, or maybe when both are connected to each other, you know how you should do it, you have to learn it. Not doing the checks, you learn you should do on the first day is a big mistake. I don't know which checks and measures GOA skips, but I know there are several checks, tools, etc. you learn to use to prevent this kind of mess. These problems happens if you don't check stuff.

And sad, but several "assumptions" are based on what you know about how things should be done in any online service, and what they prevent, and what we see. While some moron said, assuming there are preparations made for clustering is wrong forgot, some of these preparations have visible even before actual clustering, and it was shown to them. They said it is stupid to assume that restoring items will take weeks, they took weeks. And finally, they say, assuming that when with each day more and more bugs became apparent, and more and more items lost, catching the bug on first report would prevent corruption of other records is a bit more than an assumption.

I also "assume" that what you learn about beta testing, when you learn programming, is important, if there are bugs happen, check if they are linked. Asking GOA to check the bugs that appear at same time and related to same data if they are linked is a bit more than assumption.

Maybe for ones who don't know about programming, never ran any online services, never worked on fixing problems in services ran by other, etc. think most of it is hard to understand, how people reach these conclusions, but if you don't know about it, don't flame about it. It is something hard to understand for someone, who flamed and insisted fix will be in few days, bugs aren't linked, no new bugs can appear because of them (title) etc. we all know how the events progressed, and how their claims are made void by them.

 

[Esselinithia]

Shanaia

It is nice to try to answer every line of a post, without putting effort on checking what it points to. Like you say: 5000 accounts is an assumption. Let me correct you: Corran (not me) assumed how many accounts got compensation, right?

Now average 1 day maximum connections for Prydwen alone is around 1000, at the same time around 1300 people are on excal, and 500 more at camlann: It means around 2800 simultaneous connections can be observed at peak hours on english server. Doing any calculation with 2000 accounts is wrong, since they paid compensation for more than 2000 accounts, and it has some proof, you can verify yourself. http://daoc.darkzone.net/ Now GOA and flame Corran for using 2000 in a calculation.

But you say, 2800 is closer to 2000 than to 5000? But don't forget people don't play 24/7, some people have 3+ accounts, etc. So 2800 is an absolute minimum, if we don't use weekly maximums. 1368 from excal 1075 from prydwen 552 from camlann, around the same time. 2995 simultaneous connections. Since we know no significant amount people is awake and playing at 24/7 (basic biology, but I know for you it is an unlikely assumption), and that not all people log in all their account at same time (even one example proves it, and my accounts, the accounts owned by tallwiz, etc. are examples, before you say assumption) we can safely say, the number of active accounts are significantly higher than the 2995 we used for calculations. Lets see a bit more. Do I know people who have active account (who would get compensation) but isn't included in this 2995 since haven't logged in at all in last week? Yes I know. So our number climbs more.

Yes, 5000, as I said isn't a hard number, it is probably more, but can be less, but a far better number for calculations than 2000, and yes, 5000 account shows even more, than giving out 2 extra weeks for everyone wouldn't be feasible.

You say I assume, that people aren't happier for the 2 weeks, imho it is only your assumption. I say, most of the people accepted that they won't get free time, and as you said, it was the reasonable thing to expect (I agree on it) and I think a lot of people accepted it. Do they quit because the free time is just 2 weeks? No. Would they quit if they would get other kind of compensation? No. You say most of the people would think otherwise and would quit if GOA would give other compensation? Where is your proof, since intiat discussion about compensation when GOA said they won't give free days, and your oppinion in that time says the opposite. Where is the data that made you change your oppinion?

But you knew, that we won't wait weeks for item replacement, you had 100% sure info free days are out of questions, and you had much more info proven 100% false. All your "proof" against what I say isn't proven by events: It is just backed your "declarations". Maybe if you try to understand the whole thread, and post when you have either real expertise, experience or real information that won't be proven wrong by the event add that to discussion, it would have some result other than flaming.

Here is just some examples for calculation, and yes I said 5000 is a more likely candidate than 2000. It isn't hard since 2000 affected accounts is impossible if you check the numbers you can reach. And I have good data to support the claim the numbers are far closer to 5000. Would you like to know how I reached the conclusion that the downtime will be long (proven true)? Or would you like to know how I assumed that the detected problems aren't the only problems (proven true)? Or investigation of missing items will be longer than a week (proven true)? Or that the 66000 reports reported by GMs isn't all the affected records after prydwen came back up?

Lets see proof for the later: If they deleted 66000 corrupted reports, all related inventory slots are affected slots. All slots where people got items from other realms, or got aurulite from inventory slots were bugous and weren't deleted. So they were outside of 66000 deleted corrupted reports.

Now for the longer than a week (probably more): If it would take 10 secounds for GOA staff to check and restore a missing item on average, it would still cost 183 hours to restore 66000 records. That is more than a full week if you do 24/7. Of course 10 secounds / item with sending initial reply, reading RN, investigating in log, looking up command(s) to create items, typing the command, handing over the item, loging in / out even if done almost simultaneously on different computers / by different staff, the 10 secounds is unreachable. Make that 30 at least. Without any problematic reports, etc. you can say, if you have team of 6 for all realms, and someone for initial replies, and some more for final replies (20 staff members) and you can provide this amount 24/7 it takes more than a week. You call it assumption, I call it common sense to know it will take more time.

How I knew that the detected problems weren't the only ones? When I said, they detected stuff next day, and the title bug appeared, etc. You will laugh: I knew if they lost chat channels, it wasn't only item database that was affected. Also I knew, they haven't noticed the problems with the first checks, yet they were significant. It was enough to judge the complexity of the problem. And also if you know the real source of problems, you know what to fix, where to add additional checks in Code so you have an ETA, when you assume you found the source of the problem yet you aren't sure: You don't see the whole picture yet. This made the title bug foreseeable, and when the fixes in code didn't prevent it, they emptied title db, and no more corrupted db, and it works.

Yes, there is more, haven't explained everything, and could tell you much much more. But as you see, what I said about the events happened, what you said didn't happen. Even if you claim you read GOA internal forums, it worked this way. As soon as you accept this, you will probably check the alternatives for compensation, etc. and how they affect people.

 

[Otho]

Alot of words

Considering your numerous posts here on FH I think you easily could have made up all that you lost in the game, if you spent your time there instead of here on FH.

 

[Corran]

Esse, if you read what i said i stated that i had no idea of how many accounts were compansated and as such it was just an EXAMPLE of to look at the cost:benefit ratio of giving out more days. I think using a small number of 2000 accounts more then showed why they wont give a shit if 1, 5 50, hell even 100 people say they quit if they dont get 2weeks minimum more compensation as they still not got items.

an EXAMPLE was all it needed to help explain why it wasnt feasable, so blame yourself for being to foolish to actually read that example is not fact and just what it says it is for explanations sake.


Cant be arsed to read rest of the post, you go on too much at the moment.

 

[Esselinithia]

an EXAMPLE was all it needed to help explain why it wasnt feasable, so blame yourself for being to foolish to actually read that example is not fact and just what it says it is for explanations sake.


Cant be arsed to read rest of the post, you go on too much at the moment.

You are the one who is foolish for not reading, noone said, you can't make examples, but I said, it is in different numbers, and while even 8000 or 10000 euro extra costs would look lame, we can say the same about 30000 euro, the difference is when you see how much improvements can be made to the game. The smaller amounts of money won't make anything extra, yet you can't expect GOA to spend this much extra. But say 30000 euro you still don't want to double that expense, but you can do much more from this budget.

This is why it is important to use some data on the same level to base your assumptions on. Spending extra, as you said is problematic, and you proven it isn't feasible to double expenses (even at lower level) we agree on it (you haven't read it), and it shown if you use an example closer to the actual number of accounts accepted, you still see: you don't want to spend more, but you also see: You can spend the money in another way. But lets see a poll about it.

 

[Esselinithia]

here is the survey about compensation. Results will be posted later.

 

[LawBringer]

Finally got my comp - not bad - all my chars now fully equipped in some quite decent gear - luckily for me I had a Heretic in the making that was not affected by any significant losses so I had a toon to get on with (he is now 50).

However the 2 affected toons are only now playable - so lost alot of time on these - but all in all I am happy enuff and things are back to near normal. Thanks to my Tic I have had a fully playable char, which I am loving to play. If this had not been the situation could have made the whole thing alot harder to bear.

 

[Shanaia]

Right

Exactly as I expected Esse is just not able to have a normal conversation/discussion because he/she won't accept anything else but the reality that is real to him/her.

How many people have to tell you that you're wasting your time here... how many people have to say that they're not happy with your posts and with you acting as their spokesperson before the coin drops?

Welcome on my ignore list... you're the second person who made it there and you're in good company

 

[Esselinithia]

One who asks for a survey, and when gets and again proven wrong, can answer with ignore: It is my ball and I am going home attitude. You asked for data, I presented several pieces of data, including pretty basic stuff for lenght of compensation process. You said all such estimates are unfounded, and stupid, yet most of them happened as it was explained in estimates. You got the math, you got the poll, now you can't ask for anything, and instead of admiting, you aren't omniscient and don't know everything you make such posts. I am glad, I don't have to see you trying to prove, that 2+2=4 is a wild estimation and you except it to be 3. I rather talk with intelligent people.

 

[Esselinithia]

Oh, one more thing to add about basic intelligence.

GOA before the event said at all lost item cases, if anything will get lost due to a server side problem it gets replaced.

The first time they haven't replaced something lost in a server problem this policy won't work. Why? Because people know GOA can't replace all items lost because of server side problem. If you manage to understand that this policy is simply not working since they can't live by the claim, and it is PROVEN by the fact they are unable to restore stuff, then you know, they either change the policy or speak something noone would believe in and something already prooven false.

It is this easy. They can't say anymore that they restore all stuff lost because of server side problem, because they can't do it. It isn't about oppinions, being happy or unhappy, it is: They can't say they replace everything on server side problems, because they can't do it. Means, they should change policy.

Before this: We knew, if we make sure our items are safe on client side, we knew they are safe no matter how GOA ensures their safety, this promise and claim was what we had. If it isn't changed and we know GOA can't follow it, and they know it as well (as a fact not an oppinion), that is problem.

And honestly: You think saying they should do it, and it is the most important is dissing them. I think if you insist, that they should use a policy they can't follow and they should just lie about what they would do and expect they want to lie, that is dissing them.

Imho GOA wants to answer the problem, since they know, they can't say: We replace stuff lost because of server side problems but won't do it on other cases. They can't say it is the safety our items have. Why? Because they can't live by it. Not they don't want, but they can't. They want to use something as their policy they can't follow? I doubt it. I think GOA people aren't interested in that.

Imho the most important element is: Offer some policy they can follow and we can live by it about item loses and safety of the accounts. Yes, it is up to them to determine what is in the policy, yes they can say, they can say they have no warranty, but they have guidelines they try to follow when restoring items. But not having any policy that works, and the last one is proven non working is a state of game that doesn't work.

Can GOA say they restore every item lost because server side problems? No, since they can't follow it.
Can they continue using their policy? No.
Do they need a new policy? Yes.
And being able to know it is important.

Know how simple it would be to fix this problem? By saying they will either replace lost no trade items, or reset the quest to let people re acquire them, in all scenarios they get lost. And at massive widespread loses they give compensation for other items at their decision knowing the possibilities.

The old line they drawn at server side / client side problem for deciding when to replace items. It doesn't work. Where should be the new line? It is up to them to decide, but they should make a decision.

 

[Shanaia]

This message is hidden because Esselinithia is on your ignore list.

 

[IainC]

Oh, one more thing to add about basic intelligence.

GOA before the event said at all lost item cases, if anything will get lost due to a server side problem it gets replaced.

The first time they haven't replaced something lost in a server problem this policy won't work. Why? Because people know GOA can't replace all items lost because of server side problem. If you manage to understand that this policy is simply not working since they can't live by the claim, and it is PROVEN by the fact they are unable to restore stuff, then you know, they either change the policy or speak something noone would believe in and something already prooven false.

It is this easy. They can't say anymore that they restore all stuff lost because of server side problem, because they can't do it. It isn't about oppinions, being happy or unhappy, it is: They can't say they replace everything on server side problems, because they can't do it. Means, they should change policy.

Before this: We knew, if we make sure our items are safe on client side, we knew they are safe no matter how GOA ensures their safety, this promise and claim was what we had. If it isn't changed and we know GOA can't follow it, and they know it as well (as a fact not an oppinion), that is problem.

And honestly: You think saying they should do it, and it is the most important is dissing them. I think if you insist, that they should use a policy they can't follow and they should just lie about what they would do and expect they want to lie, that is dissing them.

Imho GOA wants to answer the problem, since they know, they can't say: We replace stuff lost because of server side problems but won't do it on other cases. They can't say it is the safety our items have. Why? Because they can't live by it. Not they don't want, but they can't. They want to use something as their policy they can't follow? I doubt it. I think GOA people aren't interested in that.

Imho the most important element is: Offer some policy they can follow and we can live by it about item loses and safety of the accounts. Yes, it is up to them to determine what is in the policy, yes they can say, they can say they have no warranty, but they have guidelines they try to follow when restoring items. But not having any policy that works, and the last one is proven non working is a state of game that doesn't work.

Can GOA say they restore every item lost because server side problems? No, since they can't follow it.
Can they continue using their policy? No.
Do they need a new policy? Yes.
And being able to know it is important.

Know how simple it would be to fix this problem? By saying they will either replace lost no trade items, or reset the quest to let people re acquire them, in all scenarios they get lost. And at massive widespread loses they give compensation for other items at their decision knowing the possibilities.

The old line they drawn at server side / client side problem for deciding when to replace items. It doesn't work. Where should be the new line? It is up to them to decide, but they should make a decision.

Yes we can. In normal circumstances we can look at a backup of the character and see that he/she has the item. We can then check logs and see if the item has been dropped, sold, salvaged, traded etc. If it hasn't and the item isn't on teh character anymore we can see that it's been eaten by a game bug and we can replace it.
This situation isn't a normal circumstance as there are no backups that we can check. As far as we are able though we are applying our usual policy of 'if we broke it, we'll fix it'. It changes nothing regarding other problems players may face at other times. You are simply guessing at what is or isn't possible and are attempting to pass your guesses off as fact. That's never a good position to argue from.

 

[Ame]

teh

Req trying to be l33t? :worthy:

 

[Esselinithia]

Requiel: If you say it is a guess that you can't replace rogs, crafted items it is your say, but I might say one thing about it: look at the GM posts here, and see when it was told that it is impossible to replace rogs, crafted items, and where it was told what happens with a crafted item restored by GM commands. If you say, taking what was said by GM and using it in argument is a guess not a fact, then I have one more question: When we should belive in what was said by GMs here?

The sold, dropped, destroyed, salvaged part is often a limiting factor, we both remember cases when someone faced a big when an item looked like something else, and lost this way. (say jewelry looked like port necklace) In such bugs, your logs won't tell much. I merely suggest, that if player can't restore an item because they can't get it again, and can't be traded normally, and you see it is used by his template, etc. so he needs it (no reason to think he intentionally sold) treat that as a bug. Why?

Since there is no way to abuse it without repeating it over and over. So it doesn't hurt the game, doesn't make anything unfair. It is a first significant database problem, you say, you can't replace everything now, it is from GM posts again. If you say, we should expect next time will be different, we might expect that, but it means, next time there is a server side problem, people will have even more reasons to expect rogs replaced, crafted MP and SCed items replaced, etc. Lets hope you will have new GM tools to allow that by that time.

 

[Esselinithia]

You are simply guessing at what is or isn't possible and are attempting to pass your guesses off as fact. That's never a good position to argue from.

I am guessing that the following quote from related sticky thread is true:

Rogs and crafted items. We are completely unable to replace these. Rogs are generated on the fly by the game and as such aren't recreatable and crafted items can only be created by crafting them oddly enough. If I generate a crafted item then it will look like a normal crafted item, it'll smell like a normal crafted item but you won't be able to SC, alchemise or dye it. For any Rog or crafed item we are simply going to have to give you cash to replace it.

If you say it isn't true then it is up to you. Don't know which quote is true and which isn't which can be discussed which would be a guess. But I think you should remember this quote.

Can I expect that next time my rog items I use to get some toa bonuses that will get replaced? If I take what you said now and your policy I would expect. If I belive in your explanation I can't expect.

I am guessing that quests you can check now for non tradeable quest items can be checked anytime. Since you have the logs. So for quest items, and other items that cannot be traded normally, etc. and artifacts, I guess you can use the exact same commands that you use now. If they can't be used, how you use them now after all.

But of course treating GM posts here as information is just a guess. Understood, will know how to read posts from GOA in the future.

 

[IainC]

I am guessing that the following quote from related sticky thread is true:



If you say it isn't true then it is up to you. Don't know which quote is true and which isn't which can be discussed which would be a guess. But I think you should remember this quote.

Can I expect that next time my rog items I use to get some toa bonuses that will get replaced? If I take what you said now and your policy I would expect. If I belive in your explanation I can't expect.

I am guessing that quests you can check now for non tradeable quest items can be checked anytime. Since you have the logs. So for quest items, and other items that cannot be traded normally, etc. and artifacts, I guess you can use the exact same commands that you use now. If they can't be used, how you use them now after all.

But of course treating GM posts here as information is just a guess. Understood, will know how to read posts from GOA in the future.

You have a habit of reading what you want to see in a post and then twisting the infromation in a way that makes sense to nobody but yourself. You said nothing about rogs in your original post, you were talking about items in general - most of which can be replaced under normal circumstances. Rogs have always been non-recreatable. Your point is invalid and pretending that you were talking about rogs the whole time doesn't make it so. Our general poicy as I stated is that we will replace anything that's lost due to a fault on the server or the game code as far as it is possible to do so. Under normal circumstances that would be anything except rogs. Under the present circumstances it's anything except rogs/crafted that we can verify from quest info and logs. The policy isn't broken and doesn't need to change.

 

[Esselinithia]

Under normal circumstances that would be anything except rogs.

Requiel: I say if the policy says you restore every lost item that is lost due to your fault, that is true for every item, including rogs, but not rogs only. If there are exceptions, it isn't a general rule. It isn't a policy you can follow in all cases.

If data isn't lost then you can restore most of it, if it is lost you can restore some of it, why you would say if there is a data loss you would fix what is broke, when you can't do it? Rogs, crafted items, etc. are examples of what can't be replaced.

You know: If it is about everything, even ONE exception is enough to say, it isn't everything anymore.

I said, the new line in policy for replacing items should name you replace items that can be replaced by you. ie. exclude all items you can't replace from the policy.

Btw: About the mentioned bug with normal necky looking like a portal necky, the next porting system prevents such incidents and characters will wear their template items in most cases, so far less chance for such accidents. But that is a known example of client side problem, and know example of a bug that doesn't result in replaced items as is.

 

[Esselinithia]

And if long replies make you or anyone confused, the whole point is very simple:

You can't offer to replace everything lost due to bugs, when there are items that you can't replace. Any single non replaceable item is incompatibile with everything.

You yourself explained it: If you aren't sure about something, it isn't 100% it isn't for official answers. On policy / rightnow side: Replacing everything, that is lost isn't 100%, rogs, crafted items, some bigger problems, etc are exceptions. So I suggest either officially excluding rogs (and any other stuff you can't replace) from item replacement policy, or getting tools that can re add items including crafted items, and rogs based on old database backup to character inventories on database level without logging in with the characters. If the same record for item is in DB same item should be on character. A good tool would make all replacements faster, but it is some code Mythic should provide

 

[Dr_Evil]

And if long replies make you or anyone confused, the whole point is very simple:

You can't offer to replace everything lost due to bugs, when there are items that you can't replace. Any single non replaceable item is incompatibile with everything.

You yourself explained it: If you aren't sure about something, it isn't 100% it isn't for official answers. On policy / rightnow side: Replacing everything, that is lost isn't 100%, rogs, crafted items, some bigger problems, etc are exceptions. So I suggest either officially excluding rogs (and any other stuff you can't replace) from item replacement policy, or getting tools that can re add items including crafted items, and rogs based on old database backup to character inventories on database level without logging in with the characters. If the same record for item is in DB same item should be on character. A good tool would make all replacements faster, but it is some code Mythic should provide

Let me just quote something for you:

Our general poicy as I stated is that we will replace anything that's lost due to a fault on the server or the game code as far as it is possible to do so. Under normal circumstances that would be anything except rogs.

Note the "replace anything that's lost(...)as far as it is possible to do so" wich clearly excludes all the irreplaceable items (rogs etc). Clearly! Although it shouldn't be neccessary to say it in other words: Everything replaceable will be replaced if lost due to a fault on the server or the game code, all irreplaceable items will clearly not be replaced as they're impossible to replace. (As you should be able to see here, Rogs and all other items that are impossible to replace are excluded from 'everything replaceable'.)

 

[Esselinithia]

Is it possible to code a tool that readds items to database from old backups, including the exact record for rogs? Is it something they want to do?

Edit: And yes, what he said, adds one new element to the policy that is new from previous posts, and it is almost good, if he would add the "with our existing tools" after the word polite that would be an important change. (hint, client side bugs are included in it now as well).

 

[Thorwyn]

There is a major difference, I know how companies operate who offer online services, and I learned both side of it, we did research about what can be done to prevent downfall of a big hungarian portal, as part of my job, and our prognosis worked well. Imho if you know how it should work, as any other bussiness offering any other services, then you know what they should implement. This is the basis, not knowing their exact errors.

See? That´s *exactly* the point I was trying to make. You "know" how "companies" operate. That´s your claim.
I`ll tell you what: I`m working in the gaming industry. And we´re also offering servers to our customers. And still, with all this (pretty similar you must admit) background, I would never dare to say what GoA can or cannot do, simply because I don´t know the details and I don´t have insight to the large picture. Just because you know one or a couple of companies doesn´t mean you know everything about other companies and everybody is operating exactly the same way.
I`ll stick to it: you´re not helpful and you´re just wasting precious time.

 

[Shanaia]

I`ll stick to it: you´re not helpful and you´re just wasting precious time.

qft

Soooo Esse .. now even Requiel (official GOA person) is saying that you are full of it (not in so many words off course because he's to polite to do that) and still you keep claiming you "know" stuff.

Seriously ... walk away ... it's not worth it.

 

[civy]

Not being able to replace ROG objects is just lazy on the part of GOA/Mythic. I cant believe that it is beyond the capabilities of a mythic programmer to spend 30 minutes to write a small utility to create ROG items and add them to the database.

 

[Esselinithia]

Shanaia: Requel now says, everything doesn't include everything, and what they can do not includes getting some small utility (30 minutes to code a tool that essentially copies database records). Imho it shows how poorly GOA and probably the whole france telecom is ran, hope their customers will learn about it. Oh, and nice, that daoc just got some new reviews, and will get some more for DR, and such everything is not everything type claims for bugs can result in low scores. Wonder why it is hard to get new players?

If I would be a potential new player, I wouldn't trust a company, that says something isn't included in everything, and has problems with copying database records. Because most new players know: That if they have old backups, the ROGs, etc are in backup, if they say recreating crafted items result in a bugous item, they question why it would be case by case. And many people think, online subscribtions need some kind of trust, and this trust is best reserved for professionals.

 

[Ssera]

Not being able to replace ROG objects is just lazy on the part of GOA/Mythic. I cant believe that it is beyond the capabilities of a mythic programmer to spend 30 minutes to write a small utility to create ROG items and add them to the database.

Well isn't that what's happening? You lost items, you get those RoG token things, you go and get your random object from the RoG NPCs GOA put in place?

How do you know it would be a "small" utility to add RoGs into a database? As far as I know and from what Req has said, RoGs are generated in game and on the fly, so how are you supposed to do that out of game?

Shanaia: Requel now says, everything doesn't include everything, and what they can do not includes getting some small utility (30 minutes to code a tool that essentially copies database records). Imho it shows how poorly GOA and probably the whole france telecom is ran, hope their customers will learn about it. Oh, and nice, that daoc just got some new reviews, and will get some more for DR, and such everything is not everything type claims for bugs can result in low scores. Wonder why it is hard to get new players?

As posted by Dr_Evil just above but I'll post it again just in case it actually sinks into your head once and for all:

Our general poicy as I stated is that we will replace anything that's lost due to a fault on the server or the game code as far as it is possible to do so. Under normal circumstances that would be anything except rogs.

Why can't you understand that?

As for the utility - how do you know that it would only take 30 minutes? How do you know that it's even possible? Do you work for GOA? Do you work for Mythic? If both of those are No, then you cannot possibly know what they can and cannot do. You can guess, but you can't state anything as fact. End of Story.

As for this meaning that France Telecom is run badly... well, another assumption from your part?

If I would be a potential new player, I wouldn't trust a company, that says something isn't included in everything, and has problems with copying database records. Because most new players know: That if they have old backups, the ROGs, etc are in backup, if they say recreating crafted items result in a bugous item, they question why it would be case by case. And many people think, online subscribtions need some kind of trust, and this trust is best reserved for professionals.

Ok so you would like for them to restore your RoG items using old database copies right?

What old database copies? Requiel even said himself that they don't have any backups, so how the f**k are they supposed to use backups to restore items?

This situation isn't a normal circumstance as there are no backups that we can check.

Now the fact they don't have backups is an issue, but it's not what you're arguing about.

 

[Shanaia]

Not being able to replace ROG objects is just lazy on the part of GOA/Mythic. I cant believe that it is beyond the capabilities of a mythic programmer to spend 30 minutes to write a small utility to create ROG items and add them to the database.

kk meight!

Well glad we got that sorted out then... damn lazy GOA/Mythic!

Good thing we have you to tell us this inside information thanks Civy!

See Esse you can learn from Civy he obviously knows about this stuff because ..

eh ..

why?

 

[Darzil]

A simple question to those that think all this techy stuff is so easy :

For whatever reason, GOA are having to work with log files, not backups. Now, I don't know exactly what these log files look like. They may be like house logs. I do know that house log files look somewhat like (from a call I put in a while ago - these show a character removing items from a house vault) :

[02/03/05 02:10:54] [<character name>][LotXXX] transfers from vault#2 (slot#90) to inventory [arcanium Illbane Whirling jambiya][93]
[02/03/05 02:11:03] [<character name>][LotXXX] transfers from vault#2 (slot#93) to inventory [Gauntlets of the Shadowy Embers][5165]

Now, if they are working from a Log like this, you should be able to quickly see why it's a lot harder to recreate crafted/rog items, as the name doesn't identify the stats of the item for them.

Now, bearing in mind it is taking weeks for GOA to sort this out, despite pulling in the French/German GMs to help, how many more weeks would replacing the Rogs take, especially without any simple way of verifying their existence ?

As someone said, it wouldn't be too hard to create an application to create RoG's/Crafter items into the DB. However, without a way to work out what they were, it'd still be wasted time !

In practice when it comes to data recovery, it's not at all rare to find a hole in the procedures. After finding it, then you deal with the mess and try to stop it happening in future. Saying how easy it would be not to be there in the first place helps no one. The simple truth is that there are always things that are more important than working on robustness of data/backups, on a given day. It's always too tempting to let it slip, until you've faced this situation. I'll guess that Mythic/GOA will be changing things now, as they've discovered this is possible.

Darzil