Unsustainable level

[Gustav]

I'd be interested to know how many people actually left the game. Sure people migrated to another GOA server but that doesnt affect their bottom line. Whoever does the forecasting and Marketing for GOA should be shot because its no way to run a business.

Agreed.

Not a lot of us have left the game, as the FH posting and complaints can attest. We are still playing but on other servers. Its a bit like the run on Northern Rock, all depositors panicked and drew out their cash causing NR to collapse. They all blamed the bank for this problem but if people had stayed calm and realised that its still a viable entity then NR would have had the money to continue on. No US bank has had the same problems and thats where the subprime problem really is an issue. (Soz for banker speak but its my job)

Same with Dyvet. We all withdrew and it collasped. We blame GoA but some of the blame resides on our shoulders. Sure they let us down in many respects, but us leaving and heading to greener pastures hastened that fall. I'm keeping my dyvet accounts in the hopes that once the dust settles there will arise a pheonix from the ashes...or they decide to let us transfer chars to other non english servers or even let us cluster with them.

Sure they are a Euro company and their main objective is to market that audience, the german servers are packed full of people playing - same with le frogs. The game is now very mature and not a new FotM so its hard to whip up the same excitement for new people to join. GoA should be advertising in the UK more...I've never seen an advert for DaoC ever on UK TV or l33tGamer Shows. They are letting us down but if we ourselves give it up then its truely dead.

 

[Genedril]

Corrected that for you as tbh the german clusters are still very VERY much active.

OT: If GOA still think Dyvet is "sustainable" then they have their heads lodged so far up their own asses they will be licking their own tonsils - its pathetic imo how they have handled the english cluster in recent times tbh. Their inability to actually do ANYTHING positive is way beyond ridiculous now

Funny how many people seem to think that because the English servers have died on their feet that all of EU is ballsed. German clusters are just as healthy as most US clusters, people there are friendly & helpful too. Not only that they've managed to keep a fg scene (though it's apparently not as healthy as it once was) & a 'zerg' scene as well. Something that the English people never managed as both camps seemed intent of p'ing off the other at every opportunity.

{edit} obviously not everyone from both camps btw...

 

[Gear]

Its a bit like the run on Northern Rock, all depositors panicked and drew out their cash causing NR to collapse. They all blamed the bank for this problem but if people had stayed calm and realised that its still a viable entity then NR would have had the money to continue on. No US bank has had the same problems and thats where the subprime problem really is an issue. (Soz for banker speak but its my job)

Same with Dyvet. We all withdrew and it collasped. We blame GoA but some of the blame resides on our shoulders. Sure they let us down in many respects, but us leaving and heading to greener pastures hastened that fall. I'm keeping my dyvet accounts in the hopes that once the dust settles there will arise a pheonix from the ashes...or they decide to let us transfer chars to other non english servers or even let us cluster with them.

Well, like the example on NR, the clients lost confidence in the bank causing its collapse, we also lost confidence with regards to Dyvet's future. I was just playing the shade hoping for some kind of a solution. When Roaken announced that there are no plans to do anything with the cluster I just gave up despite that my accounts are still open till the 2nd of December. Why play on a server where there's no future at all?

If a company has no credibility, it will eventually face the music, right? And yeah, I'm no computer wizzie, but since it's possible to transfer music from one DAW to another with a relative ease (and I'm talking about different software) then I can't see how the fuck can they fail to cluster or do anything with their database.

 

[GReaper]

The annoying thing is that there are some potential solutions, but all of them have drawbacks or other problems. At this stage the server is not entirely viable on it's own and every other server is far more appealing, GOA should consider them.

I find it sad that other games such as Ultima Online (which is 10 years old) is still going with all servers. This game hasn't even reached the 6th year and the English European servers are no longer viable to play on. The English servers should be some of the busiest considering that it covers every other country apart from those covered with their own language.

 

[Cadelin]

I find it sad that other games such as Ultima Online (which is 10 years old) is still going with all servers. This game hasn't even reached the 6th year and the English European servers are no longer viable to play on. The English servers should be some of the busiest considering that it covers every other country apart from those covered with their own language.

But there are viable english servers, they are run by Mythic and they are pretty busy. If the english GOA servers had been clustered with the Mythic ones 6 months ago (not that this was ever likely to happen) then GOA english clusters would probably be the most higly populated ToA servers in game. The individual Mythic servers get 100-200 online prime time each its just that they are in a cluster of 6+ servers.

The english GOA servers were always going to have a problem. From the start GOA wern't allowed to do certain advertising in English because it would compete with Mythic.

GOA have run the servers as professionally as any other online game company I have used. Yeah there have been problems and the prydwen server crash and the .xml failure stand out amonst them but in general over time GOA don't seem any better/worse than other companies. Certainly if you look at the German and French Clusters they are in alot better shape than any mythic ones when you consider player retention etc.

 

[Lothandar]

decieved on purpose - until he got his WH job then just didnt give a flying fook anymore....

and if you look further back over 2 years - you will see people clamoring then for something to be done - only to be told that there wasnt a problem.

I think their ultimate solution was to do nothing and hang on until WHO came out - but that has backfired on them now - and there no longer is a viable english cluster and there is no WHO...

what happens now is anyone's guess, but with WHO delayed until at least april 2008, then GOA have got a lot of months to worry about the amount of revenue they are generating, and if they dont balance their books or make a profit, then i cant see france telecom wanting to pour money into the organisation.

i would love to get hold of a copy of their financial accounts

I'd like to see GOA going bankrupt.

 

[Phantoman]

The problem is with the English server these days is that anyone starting has absolutly no chance to compete in rvr.

You get to level 50 and go in to rvr these days and get ganked every 5 mins buy some high rr
ml plank just makes you give up.

The best solution imo is to make it a level playing field.
Give all toons lev 50 ml10 cl10 rr10, not 13 so you still have something tp work at rr wise. then we can all go nuts to our hearts content.

 

[Zede]

The problem is with the English server these days is that anyone starting has absolutly no chance to compete in rvr.

You get to level 50 and go in to rvr these days and get ganked every 5 mins buy some high rr
ml plank just makes you give up.

The best solution imo is to make it a level playing field.
Give all toons lev 50 ml10 cl10 rr10, not 13 so you still have something tp work at rr wise. then we can all go nuts to our hearts content.

Was not aware there was enough people on the "english" server to get ganked every 5 mins ? On Avalon I was rr3 by L46, rr5 before I was ML10, and rr6 with half a template. Sure you get ganked, but the German servers at least are full a every type of player, soloers, small grps, 8v8, mini zergs, big zergs.

 

[Dard]

. German clusters are just as healthy as most US clusters, people there are friendly & helpful too.

Wonder if those servers would still be "healthy" if pryd/excal players hadnt migrated to them, it would be interesting to know what % the ex-UK server players actually make up of the current german / US servers playerbase .. bah .. i know what i mean

 

[scorge]

Do not know why they bother to put up news on the English website, its not even news looks like a load of text from a readme file.

I am glad to see though that they mentioned the XML getting fixed, and how there top notch technical support guys where working hard....

 

[scorge]

I got tired of the constant lack of population, no response from GOA or its community manager, the broken XML and they deteriorating English servers.

In essence i got Tired of GOA's lies and mismanagement

so i posted this

Reasons why not to play on the GOA english servers.. - Warhammer Forums

At least it help help some people out when making a choice...

 

[scorge]

I got tired of the constant lack of population, no response from GOA or its community manager, the broken XML and they deteriorating English servers.

In essence i got Tired of GOA's lies and mismanagement

so i posted this

Reasons why not to play on the GOA english servers.. - Warhammer Forums

At least it help help some people out when making a choice...

the thread is locked already, am am trying to get it unlocked, it was not a flame or in anyway defamatory, i thought it was a well thought out written adult piece.

Anybody would think they wanted the thread to fall off the page and go into obscurity :-(

 

[rampant]

supprised it took them 10 mins to lock - doubt you will get it activated again, they just dont want to listen!

 

[Gear]

Aye, it's not like you're bashing em about daoc or war development or anything. You're just offering some good advice about goa which does affects em. Imo, let em play on the euro servers, we'll have a great laugh after a few years

 

[scorge]

the mod replied to my PM about the locking, he seems ok though and gave some good reasons and i can understand why. I have replied back though with some questions

I am a little worried though, WHA is the forum for Warhammer, neither mythic nor Goa have any"official" forums.

And i see the WHA site uses advertising as most do to keep costs down.

Mythic is more likely to release information first on WHA then any other forum first. Even though the Mod says they are impartial and none affiliated, i do think that they will get more per advertising and referrals due to the number of impressions and visitors from postings from WAR devs and News items.

So they might not want to upset the apple cart, as it might means less revenue from them if Mythic withhold or delay news on WHA first.

They do not seem like that though, but its in the back of my mind.

 

[Sparx]

lol

Some of the issues you mentioned have been resolved and were issues months and in some cases years ago

not to mention still on going

 

[Gear]

the mod replied to my PM about the locking, he seems ok though and gave some good reasons and i can understand why. I have replied back though with some questions

I am a little worried though, WHA is the forum for Warhammer, neither mythic nor Goa have any"official" forums.

And i see the WHA site uses advertising as most do to keep costs down.

Mythic is more likely to release information first on WHA then any other forum first. Even though the Mod says they are impartial and none affiliated, i do think that they will get more per advertising and referrals due to the number of impressions and visitors from postings from WAR devs and News items.

So they might not want to upset the apple cart, as it might means less revenue from them if Mythic withhold or delay news on WHA first.

They do not seem like that though, but its in the back of my mind.

He gave you some reasons, fine. Any of them stating why someone can't talk about GOA's past performance?

 

[Kami]

Oh thanks for your useful input there, now f**k off!

Theres a huge majority that still enjoy this game and dont want it to go down the swanny. Im not just talking about EU either, but about the game in general! WAR is something totally different.

I agree, DAOC still has a huge amount to offer that no other MMORPG does and frankly if GOA offered it I'd pay for my accounts to be transfered to Mythic so I could fire up old characters over there.

 

[Kami]

supprised it took them 10 mins to lock - doubt you will get it activated again, they just dont want to listen!

They fail to realise that the problem isn't with the software but with the company itself, GOA have been dire in managing DAOC-EU and nothing has changed to make us think otherwise.

Fact is if GOA had any sense they'd either kill the English EU cluster or offer to move the accounts to mythic (for a charge), at least then people might consider them to be at least competent.

 

[scorge]

He gave you some reasons, fine. Any of them stating why someone can't talk about GOA's past performance?

because its old news and GOA have made significant changes for WAR, therefore the is no problem. GOA/Mythic have said its all ok, nothng to worry about, move along now...

I Havent been able to check al the dev posts by Mark jacobs and requiel (IainC) on warhammer alliance forums, but i am reliable told that they have posted its all different now in their approach. I will have a better look later and analyse the threads that mention GOA.

 

[Gear]

How can it be any better now? Better in the sense of dumping daoc and fucking over their customers for their new toy? It will be old news if they put a closure on the english cluster by either improving it and making it playable again or by just shutting it down and saying that this is it.

Anyway, mark this thread, we need to have a look at it in 5 years time.

 

[Kami]

Gear - my thoughts exactly mate and it won't be 5 years time, no doubt GOA will cock it up within the first 6 months.

 

[Rubric]

Thing is if so many people are against GOA doing it. Vote with your feet and play US?

 

[Cromcruaich]

Indeed, and continue to hit the war forum. Locks, edits and deletions or not.

They shouldnt be aloud to treat customers the way they have on the english cluster with no repurcussions, otherwise nothing will ever change.

 

[scorge]

Requiel replied on the WHA forums

he wont reply he though

Much of what will be different is already common knowledge. For example EU players will have access to exactly the same level of ingame customer support as US players. Also patches and updates will be released simultaneously in Europe and the US. Those two items alone account for the majority of the issues that most people had about DAoC in Europe.

Additionally I've been responding to some individual points on the Freddyshouse WAR forums as you can see in this thread. I don't post anymore in the DAoC section of Freddyshouse because I shouldn't be stepping on the toes of my colleagues who are still on that project.

We aren't in a position yet to lay out all of the operational details of how we will be running WAR, it's too early to announce things like server info, billing details and so forth. You should however be able to get some idea of how big a project this is for us and how much we are prepared to expand to make it work by the fact that we moved the company
to a different country in order to be able to hire the hundreds of additional people required to run WAR properly. To all intents and purposes we set up a new company several times the size of the original Goa DAoC team specifically to handle WAR and to ensure that it has all the resources it needs to be the success in Europe that it deserves to be.

 

[Flimgoblin]

meh, dunno why I bother with these threads since most people posting in them are bitter beyond belief but anyway...

If GOA had shut down the servers that'd be "dumping their customers".

As it is they've given you an english server or cluster for the past 5 years and are still supplying it.

You still have access to play the game, unfortunately GOA (despite the comments about renewing autosubscriptons ) aren't capable of forcing players to play, in order to give you some other people to play with/against.

They could change the server language and cluster you with a German/French Server, but that'd be "dumping their customers" since you'd no longer have the option of an english server.

They can't transfer your accounts and characters to the US (I'm presuming there's some sort of contractual obligations kicking around there). Plus that'd require Mythic to write a character importer from the unicode international version to the US ascii version (all you people with funny swedish o's or umlauts or ccedil's.... it's your fault )

They could possibly transfer your characters to the german/french servers, though I'm guessing that requires some serious work to translate the data (depending on how well normalised you might well be a Mercenary, but the game expects a Mercenaire or whatever) - more importantly the unique indexes (id's of characters etc.) which may or may not be an easy thing to change depending on what the data is stored as (and you have to make sure every single table is updated with this new change...)

There's a reason the charcopy system on Pendragon isn't to be relied on (with nice calls to customer services to reset things etc..)

If you want to play daoc on the US servers - go roll a new char, make some new friends, etc. if you want to play on a german server - do the same. If you'd done that (and a lot of you have it seems) back at the point you started whinging for the char transfer I'm sure you'd be quite well levelled and equipped by now...

Incidentally I fully expect the US servers to go into freefall once WAR is released - since it's most likely going to appeal to daoc players (they've announced they're adding in keeps for example), they've got a bigger population to cluster under one roof, but once you're under one roof (ala Dyvet) there's not really a lot left to be done.

 

[scorge]

meh, dunno why I bother with these threads since most people posting in them are bitter beyond belief but anyway...

If GOA had shut down the servers that'd be "dumping their customers".

As it is they've given you an english server or cluster for the past 5 years and are still supplying it.

You still have access to play the game, unfortunately GOA (despite the comments about renewing autosubscriptons ) aren't capable of forcing players to play, in order to give you some other people to play with/against.

They could change the server language and cluster you with a German/French Server, but that'd be "dumping their customers" since you'd no longer have the option of an english server.

They can't transfer your accounts and characters to the US (I'm presuming there's some sort of contractual obligations kicking around there). Plus that'd require Mythic to write a character importer from the unicode international version to the US ascii version (all you people with funny swedish o's or umlauts or ccedil's.... it's your fault )

They could possibly transfer your characters to the german/french servers, though I'm guessing that requires some serious work to translate the data (depending on how well normalised you might well be a Mercenary, but the game expects a Mercenaire or whatever) - more importantly the unique indexes (id's of characters etc.) which may or may not be an easy thing to change depending on what the data is stored as (and you have to make sure every single table is updated with this new change...)

There's a reason the charcopy system on Pendragon isn't to be relied on (with nice calls to customer services to reset things etc..)

If you want to play daoc on the US servers - go roll a new char, make some new friends, etc. if you want to play on a german server - do the same. If you'd done that (and a lot of you have it seems) back at the point you started whinging for the char transfer I'm sure you'd be quite well levelled and equipped by now...

Incidentally I fully expect the US servers to go into freefall once WAR is released - since it's most likely going to appeal to daoc players (they've announced they're adding in keeps for example), they've got a bigger population to cluster under one roof, but once you're under one roof (ala Dyvet) there's not really a lot left to be done.

I agree with you, what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is GOA stringing on its customers with empty promises, no marketing, no communication. I really hope WAR is a success for them i really do, its just they have a lot more to prove now. Just saying isn't really good enough, they have to show.

And Requiel saying he cant post on these forums because roaken wont like it is a cop out and he knows it. As i Said in the WHA forum, if thats the case why doesn't Roaken comment on Requiels post. We all know that he wont though.

 

[scorge]

loving this thread as well...

EU Server or NA Server? - Warhammer Forums

 

[Flimgoblin]

what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is GOA stringing on its customers with empty promises, no marketing, no communication.

Which empty promises?

 

[Raven]

You know, the ones where Requiel said they were looking into various solutions and that they would not let the population get to an unsustainable level. The same promises that were broken and forgotten the moment he jumped ship to WAR.