United States Corrupt Twattery

[Raven]

This guy bought 2 AR15s and a few hundred rounds of ammo, at 18.

I fail to see how anyone needs an AR15, let alone an 18-year-old.

I'm actually pro-ownership of firearms themselves, just not a free for all and certainly not assault weapons. I just think there needs to be a bit of realistic thought on why people need them and why people need military grade hardware.

 

[Scouse]

I think there needs serious thought about what sort of society we've created that creates these young, disaffected losers in the first place.

But nobody wants to look at that because it means we may have to do something personally

 

[Tom]

I don't see what gun law changes are going to do at this point. There's likely a billion guns about in the US. What difference will a law change make?

Making murder illegal hasn't stopped murders any more than stopping people buying guns will stop people getting shot IMO.

If we really want to fix things, maybe we need to make a better, fairer, society?

It's young men who do this. Make it harder for young men to buy weapons.

 

[Scouse]

It's young men who do this. Make it harder for young men to buy weapons.

So, your young man's brewing, stewing. He's really fucked off and he wants to shoot some people and he *really* wants to use an AR15. If he doesn't do it with an AR15 he's got nothing to wank to.

He goes to the shop and they say "no".

What's a young man gonna do? He's fucked? He only lives in a country with 20 million AR15s. How is he ever going to find one?

 

[Tom]

The point is you've now made it more difficult. So maybe he gets a pistol instead. Or a hunting rifle. Whatever. He'll not find it as easy to kill other children with those.

These kids aren't determined criminals. They're isolated teenagers with few friends, poor social skills, possibly bad parents; shooting up a school is a giant "fuck you" to the society that they think hates them. Making it hard to get hold of a fully automatic rifle is a good start. Maybe they don't know where to get a gun if they can't do so legally. Maybe they're not a thief. Maybe, just maybe, they'll happen upon the help they need.

Just stop making it easy to get guns.

 

[DaGaffer]

I don't see it as "giving up" - I'm horrified by the school shootings too.

I just don't see what benefit your proposals give. If you put something meaningful or useful on the table I'd be 100% behind it.

I don't care about "republicans or democrats" - I only care about doing something that's not just pissing into the wind. - I've given my explanations too. What else have you got that I could get behind?

At the moment all the above looks like someone screaming "do something!" to me...

It lights a fire under the process. You're not going to crack the 2nd Amendment with thoughts and prayers; there needs to be actual action. And you're wrong, assault weapon bans have worked in the US, and so have buybacks.

 

[Jupitus]

The point is you've now made it more difficult. So maybe he gets a pistol instead. Or a hunting rifle. Whatever. He'll not find it as easy to kill other children with those.

These kids aren't determined criminals. They're isolated teenagers with few friends, poor social skills, possibly bad parents; shooting up a school is a giant "fuck you" to the society that they think hates them. Making it hard to get hold of a fully automatic rifle is a good start. Maybe they don't know where to get a gun if they can't do so legally. Maybe they're not a thief. Maybe, just maybe, they'll happen upon the help they need.

Just stop making it easy to get guns.

Furthermore, I would expect (and no, I have no evidence before you start Scousing me) that in many cases the simple knockback might help to take the immediacy out of their thought process in in such a state of mind.

Edit, not you @Tom , I mean you know who...

 

[Scouse]

I'll scouse you then @Jupitus Interesting read:

5 questions for Peter Langman

The foremost expert on school shooters dispels the myths that surround the perpetrators

www.apa.org

The bit about what makes people do this is interesting:

Among adults, their failures are more likely to be failed marriages, occupational failures and—a critical one—financial distress.

So, back to my point - that nobody seems to want to address - how about we go about creating a fairer society?

 

[Raven]

Fuck that, Strictly is on.

 

[Wij]

I'll scouse you then @Jupitus Interesting read:

5 questions for Peter Langman

The foremost expert on school shooters dispels the myths that surround the perpetrators

www.apa.org

The bit about what makes people do this is interesting:



So, back to my point - that nobody seems to want to address - how about we go about creating a fairer society?

Because there are plenty of unfair societies that don’t have mass shootings. People will always get distressed about something. They won’t go on a gun rampage if they can’t get a gun.

 

[Scouse]

Because there are plenty of unfair societies that don’t have mass shootings. People will always get distressed about something. They won’t go on a gun rampage if they can’t get a gun.

Wij - someone in America will always be able to get a gun.

That horse has bolted.

So, what else can we do? TBH - if we're not prepared to try to make a fairer society then it makes me and my crusade to try and open people's eyes to survival of our species-type questions feel kind of pointless. If if we make it as a a species and our future is Earthers & Belters a-la The Expanse, and not Star Trek: Next Gen - then as far as I'm concerned we should be giving guns to kids.

 

[Wij]

Wij - someone in America will always be able to get a gun.

That horse has bolted.

So, what else can we do? TBH - if we're not prepared to try to make a fairer society then it makes me and my crusade to try and open people's eyes to survival of our species-type questions feel kind of pointless. If if we make it as a a species and our future is Earthers & Belters a-la The Expanse, and not Star Trek: Next Gen - then as far as I'm concerned we should be giving guns to kids.

There are many things that can be done that are realistic and wont take decades. You are just taking them off the table to suit the framing you prefer:


View: https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1529999782344802304



Background checks won’t stop shootings but they will reduce them.

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1529965774701330432

 

[Gwadien]

Let's be honest, if you want security to counter mad men with AR15s then you'll need former military with combat experience, armed with assault rifles themselves.

The idea that your local copper can go into a school with a pistol and take on a guy with a AR15 is a pretty ridiculous expectation. IMO.

 

[Scouse]

Background checks won’t stop shootings but they will reduce them.

I'm disputing that the sale of new guns is going to make a measurable difference - as there's already billions about. If you're so far gone as to plan a shooting, the obtaining of a firearm in America isn't going to be a big functional obstacle.

But whatever - there's something else with that tweet - that lots of vets commit suicide with firearms. Whilst I don't doubt that's true - maybe it's better to blow your head off than slit your wrists, jump off a bridge or chug a bucket of paracetamol (very painful).

But if we want to help vets - maybe we need to make a better, fairer world eh?

 

[Scouse]

Uvalde shooting: Texas police change key details as criticism mounts

Officials due to speak amid questions over why officers took more than an hour to stop the attack.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Wij]

Lol


View: https://twitter.com/andrewkimmel/status/1530229465246146560

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1530249195797585927

 

[Scouse]

Uvalde shooting: Texas shooting response was wrong, says official

"Please send the police now," one girl pleaded as officers waited over an hour to storm the classroom.

www.bbc.co.uk

'Please send the police now'
During the news conference on Friday, Texas chief safety official Steven McCraw recounted the emergency 911 calls students made from inside the school after the gunman entered.
12:03 - A student called 911, identified herself and whispered that she was in room 112 at the school.
12:10 - She called back, advised there were multiple dead.
12:13 - The same student called for a third time.
12:16 - She rang 911 back and said there were eight to nine students alive.
12:19 - A 911 call was made, by another person - in room 111. She hung up when another student told her to.
12:21 - You could hear over the call that three shots were fired.
12:36 - The initial caller called back, was told to stay on the line and be very quiet. She said he [the gunman] shot the door.
12:43 and 12:47 - She asked 911 to "please send the police now".
12:46 - She [the student] said she could hear the police next door.
12:50 - Shots were fired and could be heard over the call.
12:51 - It was very loud, sounds like officers were moving children out of the room. At that point, the first child that called was outside before the call cut off.

All the po-po lovers around here can suck my balls.

 

[Gwadien]

Armed female bystander kills man firing at party in West Virginia

A woman at a birthday party drew her pistol and left the gunman with multiple wounds, police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's your good person with a gun!

Inb4 we have some purge style shit - the NRA paid the guy..

 

[Scouse]

Mr Hazelett said it is not yet clear how Butler obtained the weapon - which he was not legally allowed to carry as a convicted felon.

 

[Gwadien]

Doesn't matter though does it?

The fact is that they're widely available and therefore easier to get one on the black market too.

How many AR15 shootings have we had in the UK?

And it's not like we don't have our own violent crime issues, the reality is that a AR15 does more damage than a knife.

(Even though when I spoke to a pro gun yank he did the old 'ive seen knives do more damage than guns bs')

 

[Wij]

Doesn't matter though does it?

The fact is that they're widely available and therefore easier to get one on the black market too.

How many AR15 shootings have we had in the UK?

And it's not like we don't have our own violent crime issues, the reality is that a AR15 does more damage than a knife.

(Even though when I spoke to a pro gun yank he did the old 'ive seen knives do more damage than guns bs')

So, should we give our teachers knives?

 

[Ormorof]

So, should we give our teachers knives?

Bigger knives

 

[DaGaffer]

Doesn't matter though does it?

The fact is that they're widely available and therefore easier to get one on the black market too.

How many AR15 shootings have we had in the UK?

And it's not like we don't have our own violent crime issues, the reality is that a AR15 does more damage than a knife.

(Even though when I spoke to a pro gun yank he did the old 'ive seen knives do more damage than guns bs')

ALL types of violent crime are higher in the US than in the UK. Its not just the guns, its the culture that weapons solve problems that is the underlying issue; the fact you have the whole "good guy with a gun"* trope that gets parroted out by Americans with a straight face every time one of these incidents happens shows the extent of the problem; violence as the first resort.

(* which doesn't work according to the FBI; active shooters are stopped by the public about 3% of the time).

 

[Scouse]

The point I was very clearly making is that - even though he wasn't able to legally get hold of a gun, he still got hold of a gun.

So all you people saying "change teh law! it'll stop shootings as people won't be able to get hold of guns" - well, there you go. Same week.

 

[Jupitus]

The point I was very clearly making is that - even though he wasn't able to legally get hold of a gun, he still got hold of a gun.

So all you people saying "change teh law! it'll stop shootings as people won't be able to get hold of guns" - well, there you go. Same week.

This incident perhaps, agreed, but is it not worth doing simply to try to stop even just 1% of the horrific atrocities which seem to happen daily? You want an answer that saves everyone???

 

[Tom]

It mightn't stop shootings, but effective gun controls will make them more difficult to commit, and less lethal overall. Doing nothing because you can't solve the problem with a single solution isn't a valid option. What's that swiss cheese theory someone did? A single slice of swiss cheese still has holes, but pile them up randomly and eventually it turns opaque.

 

[DaGaffer]

The point I was very clearly making is that - even though he wasn't able to legally get hold of a gun, he still got hold of a gun.

So all you people saying "change teh law! it'll stop shootings as people won't be able to get hold of guns" - well, there you go. Same week.

View: https://youtu.be/lOTyUfOHgas

 

[Aoami]

The point I was very clearly making is that - even though he wasn't able to legally get hold of a gun, he still got hold of a gun.

So all you people saying "change teh law! it'll stop shootings as people won't be able to get hold of guns" - well, there you go. Same week.

You don't think stricter gun controls, and therefore less guns in circulation, wouldve made it less likely he'd have got a gun?