United States Corrupt Twattery

[Bodhi]

What border? There are no border there for them to defend. It's an imaginary bullshit border.

What, like the one between Gaza and Egypt? The one that's only been open for like 3 days since it was set up?

Strange how everyone gets on Israel's case for blocking access to Gaza, Egypt do the same, and not a peep.

 

[Bodhi]

So they deserve it and israel is being proportionate then, right?

I would say the Palestinians deserve better leadership than Hamas, who are basically a terrorist organisation quite keen on the Second Holocaust and the complete destruction of Israel. In that case I would say Israel are well within their rights to defend themselves. Given that 58 were killed yet 2700 were injured, that indicates to me either a) Israeli snipers are rubbish, or b) there was no shoot to kill policy unless they were attacked first.

Good read on the conflict here from the perspective of a Palestinian.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-mind-of-israelpalestine?source=twitter&via=desktop

tl:dr, they're pretty much as bad as each other, but removing Hamas would make an awful lot of problems go away.

 

[Scouse]

Way to answer not the question I asked. But good attempt. It's obvious what you think anyway...

The fact of the matter is, Israel is a racist, terrorist, apartheid-like state, committing war crime after war crime and, thanks to our and the US's protection, working effectively free from the rule of law. The fact that on human rights violations alone Israel has almost picked up more sanctions than the rest of the world combined tells you all you need to know..

Then again - that's to be expected if you base a state primarily on a religion. I'd like to see it "wiped from the map" myself. I.E. The dissolution of the country, the consolidation of borders into a single state, the repatriation of those who were forcibly and violently removed, the formation of a secular government that represents all of the people rather than just the jewish segment and preferably the renaming of it to "stupidfairlygodbotheryland" to make a long-lasting point to idiots who'd setup such a shitshow elsewhere in the world.

 

[Bodhi]

Ah yes I forgot, the entire issue is all Israel's fault, and the fluffy Palestinians are completely blameless. Well, if you ignore the fact Hamas are a terrorist organisation who like using civilians as human shields and launching rocket attacks from schools and hospitals. Or that they haven't allowed any democratic elections in Gaza since 2007 and declared war on Fatah, the peaceful Palestinians who Israel are more than happy to negotiate with - after all, they worked out a peace deal with Egypt, gave back the Sinai and have been at peace with Egypt ever since. Strikes me that, with Palestine (which didn't actually exist before Israel was formed) Israel might not actually be all of the problem?

But then you've made it blatantly obvious where you think the problem lies, and even though it's blatantly obvious your solution would never work in a million years (Jews as a minority? Yep I can see them going for that), your mind is clearly made up.

 

[Scouse]

Ah yes I forgot, the entire issue is all Israel's fault, and the fluffy Palestinians are completely blameless.

I don't think anyone has ever said that, even once, in the history of ever.


Continually failing to recognise who's the bigger aggressor, who holds all the power, who holds the keys to a peaceful coexistence, but who will never do it because of an idiotic fairy-inspired sense of non-existent entitlement, shows where you come from.

The problem is Israel as a nation, based on a religion, should never have been allowed in the first place. It's the religion that's the base of the issue.

Jews as a minority? Yep I can see them going for that

Exactly. Who'd have thunk that democratic representation based on the individual, rather than some sky-fairy, would be a better way of organising a country?

 

[DaGaffer]

Why?

I genuinely think we'll look back at this and treat it like Apartheid; why didn't we do more earlier?

Ugh. Deja Vu, that’s why. If I was Palestinian I simply wouldn’t hang around for 70 years throwing rocks and waiting for Israel to change its ways; I’d have left long ago.

The Arab world doesn’t give a fuck about the Palestinians except as political pawns, so I find I give no fucks either.

 

[Bodhi]

I don't think anyone has ever said that, even once, in the history of ever.


Continually failing to recognise who's the bigger aggressor, who holds all the power, who holds the keys to a peaceful coexistence, but who will never do it because of an idiotic fairy-inspired sense of non-existent entitlement, shows where you come from.

The problem is Israel as a nation, based on a religion, should never have been allowed in the first place. It's the religion that's the base of the issue.


Exactly. Who'd have thunk that democratic representation based on the individual, rather than some sky-fairy, would be a better way of organising a country?

So you think setting up a country, where the majority want the minority wiped from the map due to a difference in opinion of sky fairy, is a good way to go?

O...k.....

 

[Bodhi]

Ugh. Deja Vu, that’s why. If I was Palestinian I simply wouldn’t hang around for 70 years throwing rocks and waiting for Israel to change its ways; I’d have left long ago.

The Arab world doesn’t give a fuck about the Palestinians except as political pawns, so I find I give no fucks either.

Precisely - if they cared about Palestine, chances are Egypt wouldn't be blockading Gaza as well - mostly due to the fact Hamas are running things. Get rid of Hamas, that blockade goes away.

 

[Scouse]

So you think setting up a country, where the majority want the minority wiped from the map due to a difference in opinion of sky fairy, is a good way to go?

Lol. What a joke.

I think palestinians are much more interested in no longer being imprisoned and brutally repressed by a racist regime that IS wiping them off large swathes of land through violence and in defiance of international law and norms.

Proper democratic representation of all people, following the rule of law. There are very few instances where those things don't improve a situation. And fuck knows the current situation definitely needs improving.

 

[Scouse]

I’d have left long ago.

Don't think that's an option Gaff...

 

[DaGaffer]

Don't think that's an option Gaff...

It totally is, or rather, it totally was an option. But interestingly as history shows, living in a total shithole encourages humans to breed like rabbits on crack.

 

[Scouse]

It totally is, or rather, it totally was an option.

What? The mass migration of every single non-jewish palestinian into adjacent countries?

Regardless of whether people should just give up their lives and ancestral homes and leave at the drop of a hat do you think the mass migration of four million people would be greeted by open arms by other countries?

It's never been an option. The idea that it ever was is a fantasy. What's happening down there is the attempted subjugation of what is effectively a prisoner population who are standing up for themselves the only way they can. The only way humans ever do.

 

[Embattle]

While they tend to take turns in bad behaviour to me this current event is certainly Israeli overreaction, I don't think shooting people protesting rather indiscriminately is ever going to achieve much beyond making the situation worse.

 

[Scouse]

I don't think shooting people protesting rather indiscriminately is ever going to achieve much beyond making the situation worse.

I think that they were very discriminate. They wanted to wound as many people as possible - hence 2400 palestinians shot, but only 60 killed - by snipers.

So they weren't "shit snipers" as @Bodhi said. There was nothing accidental about the levels of harm done by the israelis.

 

[DaGaffer]

What? The mass migration of every single non-jewish palestinian into adjacent countries?

Regardless of whether people should just give up their lives and ancestral homes and leave at the drop of a hat do you think the mass migration of four million people would be greeted by open arms by other countries?

It's never been an option. The idea that it ever was is a fantasy. What's happening down there is the attempted subjugation of what is effectively a prisoner population who are standing up for themselves the only way they can. The only way humans ever do.

It wasn’t 4m people, that’s my point; as late as the Yom Kippur War it was less than a million people; easily absorbed by the wider Arab world. For comparison, ten million ethnic Germans who hadn’t lived in Germany proper for hundreds of years were “repatriated” from Eastern Europe after WW2. How about two million Greeks out of Turkey after WW1? Don’t tell me its impossible - it’s been done, and ironically the Ottomans used to transplant populations all the time, including in and out of Palestine

 

[Scouse]

Fair enough @DaGaffer.

Still doesn't answer the point of "should" a million people be told "fuck off from your ancestral homes or die", (or the myriad other points)...

 

[Gwadien]

It wasn’t 4m people, that’s my point; as late as the Yom Kippur War it was less than a million people; easily absorbed by the wider Arab world. For comparison, ten million ethnic Germans who hadn’t lived in Germany proper for hundreds of years were “repatriated” from Eastern Europe after WW2. How about two million Greeks out of Turkey after WW1? Don’t tell me its impossible - it’s been done, and ironically the Ottomans used to transplant populations all the time, including in and out of Palestine

Surely that's hypocrisy in its finest; let's displace people to place these displaced people?

 

[DaGaffer]

Surely that's hypocrisy in its finest; let's displace people to place these displaced people?

You say hypocrisy, I say pragmatism. How many Palestinians are sat in refugee camps in Lebanon and Jordan for the third or fourth generation? Literally millions, who have been encouraged to stay there by the Arab world as political capital rather than encouraging them to get an actual life that most of those states could easily afford? That’s the hypocrisy.

 

[Wij]

It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome, a well known phenomena. People have a hard time dealing with the fact Trump might not be all bad.

NK is starting to play its real game and Trump is several moves behind:

Opinion | The gullible Trump finally finds out Kim Jong Un isn’t ‘honorable’

 

[Bodhi]

NK is starting to play its real game and Trump is several moves behind:

Opinion | The gullible Trump finally finds out Kim Jong Un isn’t ‘honorable’

Threatening to walk away? In a negotiation? My word, never seen that move before. The ever so impartial WaPo are right, Trump won't have seen that coming!

 

[Wij]

Threatening to walk away? In a negotiation? My word, never seen that move before. The ever so impartial WaPo are right, Trump won't have seen that coming!

Which might make sense if Trump hadn't already claimed victory in advance:

Trump wrongly claims North Korea has agreed to 'denuclearization'

 

[dysfunction]

Threatening to walk away? In a negotiation? My word, never seen that move before. The ever so impartial WaPo are right, Trump won't have seen that coming!

Yes you are right. He won't see that coming as he is a complete imbecile

 

[Hawkwind]

It wasn’t 4m people, that’s my point; as late as the Yom Kippur War it was less than a million people; easily absorbed by the wider Arab world. For comparison, ten million ethnic Germans who hadn’t lived in Germany proper for hundreds of years were “repatriated” from Eastern Europe after WW2. How about two million Greeks out of Turkey after WW1? Don’t tell me its impossible - it’s been done, and ironically the Ottomans used to transplant populations all the time, including in and out of Palestine

The problem was that the Arabs didn't actually like them or want them. They were the Gypo's of ME, nomadic tribes no one wanted on their doorstep. What little of them were allowed in as refugees into Jordan, Saudi, Syria, UAE...were kept in camps that were worse than the Israeli ones. Still treated like 3rd class citizens now.

 

[DaGaffer]

The problem was that the Arabs didn't actually like them or want them. They were the Gypo's of ME, nomadic tribes no one wanted on their doorstep. What little of them were allowed in as refugees into Jordan, Saudi, Syria, UAE...were kept in camps that were worse than the Israeli ones. Still treated like 3rd class citizens now.

Kind of ironic that “nomads” seem to have found it difficult to move anywhere for 70 years...

 

[Scouse]

Kind of ironic that “nomads” seem to have found it difficult to move anywhere for 70 years...

That's the problem with labels.

More accurately a nomadic lifestyle practiced an a certain area.

A lifestyle that humans have been living for millennia...

 

[Gwadien]

The irony that Palestine as a concept grew on the back of Zionism.

We're gonna take this land because it's noones.

You mean we need to have a flag and borders in order for you not to steal our land?

Yeah!

Okay

Why are you making your own country ffs?!?!

 

[Bodhi]

Hamas claims 50 of its members died in Monday's clashes in Gaza - CNN

Well knock me down with a feather I'm shocked - no really.

 

[Scouse]

So? What does that change? Of course Hamas are involved - they're Palestinian.

 

[Bodhi]

You mean apart from the fact it wasn't innocent protesters the Israelis were targeting, but members of an internationally recognised ( apart from a certain J Corbyn) terrorist organisation that were trying to get into Israel.

So to answer your earlier question, in light of this info yes, I do think Israel's response was proportional to the threat faced. Just imagine if they'd made it through the fence and went for one of the Israeli settlements near the border...doesnt really bear thinking about.

 

[Gwadien]

You mean apart from the fact it wasn't innocent protesters the Israelis were targeting, but members of an internationally recognised ( apart from a certain J Corbyn) terrorist organisation that were trying to get into Israel.

So to answer your earlier question, in light of this info yes, I do think Israel's response was proportional to the threat faced. Just imagine if they'd made it through the fence and went for one of the Israeli settlements near the border...doesnt really bear thinking about.

I consider the Israeli state to be just as much as a terrorist organisation as Hamas.

The only difference is that one has shit loads of money and support, whilst the other does not.

Their goals and means of achieving them are the same.