Unbeatable Mid grp ?

[Rolv]

Ive been wondering what would be highest utility and stlongest Grp setup possible and ive come up with this .

Shamen Cave/Aug
Healer Full Pac
Healer Pac/Mend
Bonedancer+ml9 pet
Bonedancer+ml9 pet
Sm <Darkness>+ml9 pet
2x Assisting Zerkers <Decent Players etc>

Anyone see anything wrong with this setup ?

No speed

 

[moik]

My crew of zerglings?

I agree that if we play well and have all our toys up we can compete. The difference is the xtra utility given to 5 classes allows you greater flexibility when it comes to making your grp, further more that extra utility also allow your better groups to make the odd mistake wihch would cost an alb group the fight.

Take NP (current) at their best with all toys up vs AD at their best with all toys up. If they fought 10 times who would win the most?

My money would be on NP to win the majority of the fights. (being that the players are of approximatly the same skill/experience lvl)


with regards to the relics - Utilty > dmg imo. Would u trade the majority of your insta interupts and BG'ing pets for the relics? I'd be quite happy to.

But whats the point you wont back down from your pov and i wont from mine so its pointless ot discuss it further.

Effectively in that midgroup, without a bonedancer (that groove doesn't even run with atm), you have 1 insta-pbae interupt on a 8sec recast. Alb group has 2 insta-pbae interupts on 20sec recast, 2 insta-pbae interupts on 5min recast and a single target insta-interupt on 30sec recast. I totally agree that spiritmaster pets are overpowered and should be nerfed, but for them to work they can't leave the spiritmasters side. Albgroup on the other hand has 3 ml9 pets, 1 which cannot even be CCed, that will hit the target for 400+ per swing. And all albcasters have something thats longer than 1500 range, spiritmasters do not. So it shouldn't be impossible to interupt the spiritmaster from range and then go into nukerange and kill him without him being able to do anything about it.

 

[Twinky]

Ive been wondering what would be highest utility and stlongest Grp setup possible and ive come up with this .

Shamen Cave/Aug
Healer Full Pac
Healer Pac/Mend
Bonedancer+ml9 pet
Bonedancer+ml9 pet
Sm <Darkness>+ml9 pet
2x Assisting Zerkers <Decent Players etc>

My thinking is If u dont kill the 2x bonedancers in the 1st 15-20 seconds combat and have 2x di3 running on Healers No Hib/Alb grp can win 8v8 , as pets/Insta lifetap/sm lifetap will have all Clerics/Druids/Bards/Sorcs tied down instantly .



Anyone see anything wrong with this setup ?

aug healer for resist buff/spd/cele

 

[Zagg]

Effectively in that midgroup, without a bonedancer you have 1 insta-pbae interupt on a 8sec recast.

I think you are forgetting quite a few targeted instas here...

There is no point argueing, that the average mid grp has the most (usable) instas atm (even if they don't run with warlocks). And please dont start with Cleric Pbae instas, which won't get anywhere close to anything they can interupt unless you run with a third, smite spec cleric.

However I do agree that our GoL group could do better against any enemy, with some more practice... we been running for what... 3 weeks now? Maybe 10 times with all the "right" people. So yes... we aren't much better than a random group atm. But we aren't zergers... cause if we were zerging we would make more than 8k RP a night

 

[moik]

I think you are forgetting quite a few targeted instas here...

There is no point argueing, that the average mid grp has the most (usable) instas atm (even if they don't run with warlocks). And please dont start with Cleric Pbae instas, which won't get anywhere close to anything they can interupt unless you run with a third, smite spec cleric.

However I do agree that our GoL group could do better against any enemy, with some more practice... we been running for what... 3 weeks now? Maybe 10 times with all the "right" people. So yes... we aren't much better than a random group atm. But we aren't zergers... cause if we were zerging we would make more than 8k RP a night

1 Pachealer has 3 instas which he usually saves for inc, and to compensate that you have boltrange mezz. Please tell me about the other instainterupts.

 

[Lorfo]

a _well_ played mid group is unbeatable if they dont do major fuckups,

/me looks at excals mid groups

have you ever played in a midgroup ?

 

[Dallas]

sms is what makes mid grps bad from my pov, either up darknuke to 2.8 delve, and nerf intercept some, or completely remove intercept, and put it on a pet you need to spec for in supp line or so..

 

[Zagg]

Please tell me about the other instainterupts.

I really don't want to get into this who is more op'd discussion. If you don't feel op'd, then I won't make you change your mind.


Classes with Instas (besides debuffs):

Mid AE: Healer/Valkyrie/Warlock/Thane/Shaman - Single: Skald/BD
Alb AE: Cleric/Reaver – Single: Minstrel/Necro/Heretic
Hib AE: Druid/Bard – Single: Champion, Valewalker

I know this little summary says nothing about the usabilty, groupability of those instas.... but that's same for all realms. Just the fact that there is more than twice as many mid classes with AE instas should be a telltale sign...

 

[Jobbegea]

I really don't want to get into this who is more op'd discussion. If you don't feel op'd, then I won't make you change your mind.


Classes with Instas (besides debuffs):

Mid AE: Healer/Valkyrie/Warlock/Thane/Shaman - Single: Skald/BD
Alb AE: Cleric/Reaver – Single: Minstrel/Necro/Heretic
Hib AE: Druid/Bard – Single: Champion, Valewalker

I know this little summary says nothing about the usabilty, groupability of those instas.... but that's same for all realms. Just the fact that there is more than twice as many mid classes with AE instas should be a telltale sign...

add in enchanter insta interupt dps debuff (yes its a debuff but it interupts)

and friar + pally insta taunt interupt?
hmm does vamp instant powerdrain interupt?

 

[Eregion]

banshee taunt...

as moik said, most pac healer do save their insta cc for incoming mezzes, its not an interupt tool. which leaves the 2 bd instas and shaman pbae disease thats left as interupt tool. so this whole argument about mid is all about instas isnt rly appropriate anymore, atleast imo..

it was however back in the asd/svg taunt interupt days

 

[Awarkle]

shaman gets insta desease pbaoe which doesnt interupt desease never has.

and im sure they fixed that dps interupting thing on chanters like 3 hundred patches back.

 

[Leel]

Vamp power drain does interrupt, but you have to be out of combat for ten secs to use it.

 

[Eregion]

shaman gets insta desease pbaoe which doesnt interupt desease never has.

and im sure they fixed that dps interupting thing on chanters like 3 hundred patches back.

erm, disease do interupt fyi

 

[Kalba]

shaman gets insta desease pbaoe which doesnt interupt desease never has.

So, where did you ebay your shammy?

 

[poky]

shaman gets insta desease pbaoe which doesnt interupt desease never has.

and im sure they fixed that dps interupting thing on chanters like 3 hundred patches back.

such knowledge.. teach me more!

 

[Konah]

its rly the healer/shammy utility combo that makes mid the easymode realm, add on sm BG pet/bonedancers/savages/warlocks/ae stun/celerity and voila, case closed.

 

[Gotmagi]

So, where did you ebay your shammy?

On ebay? =)

 

[Akyma]

Healer pac/mend soj
Healer mend/pac soj
Healer aug/mend perf
Shamy aug/cave perf
Thane bm
Warlock bl
Zerk bl
Savage wl

Win mezz, drop ST, healer AE stun, Warlock pb, zerk use ML8.
Lost mezz, warlock prot suport, thane BG warlock, zerk and svg on support. If suport safe warlock assist zerk/svg - spam NS - heal.

U can get few changes like:

• Use only 2 healer, (well with wl in group is 1 more to heal when the pac do CC, but 90% of times is he WL who need the heals. Plus alb groups with all relics, outdmg healing power).
• Most comun change is use warrior and kick thane, (atm thane is best warlock BG; ST is the win when is up, also thane add AE dmg to WL and can join in svg-zerk-wl assist... but, thane still exilied from det ages, so is very rare see a thane TOAded with MLs. BG thane is like BG friar, yes, a warrior and a pala r more ressist BGers, but they dont have ST ;p).
• Drop svg and add other zerk (but too many windrag abuers out atm to lost stun on melee and warlord is very useful in the realm with no pet spam class).
• U can do a radical change and play 2 warlock with a rc rune for a nice caster dmg assist with high defense Vs tanks.

Goin topic i can tell u, here is no "Unbeatable" group for any realm. All groups have his Aquiles's talon. And i say with 2 groups with same rank and with "toys" up.

 

[Grund]

add in enchanter insta interupt dps debuff (yes its a debuff but it interupts)

it doesnt interrupt since like 4-5 patches?

 

[Jobbegea]

it doesnt interrupt since like 4-5 patches?

it still does afaik. i still se stajjijjon using it in fg fights. and our casters get interupted by it.

 

[Eleasias]

we loose to Groove, Np, VP. Very rarly do we loose to any other fgm.

Ok mate. 8)

 

[Dr_Evil]

Healer pac/mend soj
Healer mend/pac soj
Healer aug/mend perf
Shamy aug/cave perf
Thane bm
Warlock bl
Zerk bl
Savage wl

Win mezz, drop ST, healer AE stun, Warlock pb, zerk use ML8.
Lost mezz, warlock prot suport, thane BG warlock, zerk and svg on support. If suport safe warlock assist zerk/svg - spam NS - heal.

U can get few changes like:

• Use only 2 healer, (well with wl in group is 1 more to heal when the pac do CC, but 90% of times is he WL who need the heals. Plus alb groups with all relics, outdmg healing power).
• Most comun change is use warrior and kick thane, (atm thane is best warlock BG; ST is the win when is up, also thane add AE dmg to WL and can join in svg-zerk-wl assist... but, thane still exilied from det ages, so is very rare see a thane TOAded with MLs. BG thane is like BG friar, yes, a warrior and a pala r more ressist BGers, but they dont have ST ;p).
• Drop svg and add other zerk (but too many windrag abuers out atm to lost stun on melee and warlord is very useful in the realm with no pet spam class).
• U can do a radical change and play 2 warlock with a rc rune for a nice caster dmg assist with high defense Vs tanks.

Goin topic i can tell u, here is no "Unbeatable" group for any realm. All groups have his Aquiles's talon. And i say with 2 groups with same rank and with "toys" up.

I totally agree. Another option is to switch 1 of the healers with a skald with AM (to replace heal), Anger2+ for more tank dmg output and SoS is a nice 'Charge' for the whole grp, and generally for the insta interrupting.

 

[rure]

shaman gets insta desease pbaoe which doesnt interupt desease never has.

and im sure they fixed that dps interupting thing on chanters like 3 hundred patches back.

Nice try, but 2 out of 2 wrong.

 

[Kanim]

shaman gets insta desease pbaoe which doesnt interupt desease never has.

and im sure they fixed that dps interupting thing on chanters like 3 hundred patches back.

it was fixed aye, but of late it seems bugged again (for staj, brack and bitteliten atleast). Seriously, it would be nice if people would actually consider what they are writing before they post since most of the people posting saying it does interupt have plenty of experience of it doing so, whereas you have only the patch notes to rely on.

 

[Edlina]

Disease always interrupted, obviously.

And dps debuff seems to interrupt sometimes still (but not every time like before the 'fix') think it only interrupts when resisted or something like that... Bit like amnesia or smth...

 

[Septina]

Disease always interrupted, obviously.

And dps debuff seems to interrupt sometimes still (but not every time like before the 'fix') think it only interrupts when resisted or something like that... Bit like amnesia or smth...

Its the other way around, does interrupt when its not resisted afaik... anyway, it does interrupt and there are plenty of casters on hib that spam it 100% in fights.

 

[Stallion]

What you have to concider is GoA/Mythic introducing small patches over the times, and sometimes what we think is the latest patch, actully is something inbetween a new one and the old one (old as in the one we think we have)..

The minipatches can be bypassed if you use a quicklogin application.. since you dont go thru the update servers, thus making it possible for people to actully be on different patches.. without knowing..

After they nerfed the dps deubff in patch 1.51 (US servers) and patch 1.72 (released march 2005) on the European servers. They reintroduced a minipatch somewhere between May and June, which made the DPS debuff interrupt again. I know this myself since I did a reinstall of my computer (earlier using quicklogin which didnt go thru the update server) my dps debuff suddenly started to interrupt from day one when I had DAoC reinstall with the latest "minipatches".

DPS debuff has been working since May 2005, its almost ½ a year soon and none has ever bothered to whine about it.. up until the day the real abusers get to know about it (some people have a big mouth) .. no names mentioned but their listed above.. :touch:

ending with that, this is nothing new, its just that once it comes into the "wrong" hands (im not saying mine are, but ive never tried to abuse it to the max like some others), it gets highlighted and it becomes the most commong whine I now get to hear.. do these people whine cause of them actully "feeling" the effect ingame or just the bandwagon "you won cause of dps debuff" (crycry).. This whine about dps debuff has risen during the last month in which the ppl who got to know about it have started to abuse it..

with all right the whine is correct imo (in an albs perspective), the mids can just suck on my stick..

 

[Belomar]

Hmm, so much bogus information displayed in this thread. First of all, Albs who complain about their realm's strengths in 8vs8 RvR (like Calaclya) are cheating themselves--yes, it is a convenient excuse so that you can avoid improving your own abilities, but it's hardly reality. In my view, 8vs8 RvR in DAoC is currently rather balanced; opted groups in all the three realms are quite evenly matched, with Mids having a slight edge (nowhere near being "unbeatable", like some Enchanter in this thread wants to claim).

I also find it amusing to see Stallion's self-righteous whine about the use and abuse of interrupting DPS debuff. No, just because you're RR11+ and have hoarded your dirty secret for a long time now does not give you more right to abuse this bug more than others. I guess the cat is out of the bag now, and I sincerely hope this is brought to Mythic's attention so that it can be fixed speedily. Sorry, QQ all you want, but I guess your little magic button will be gone soon:

No speed

Aug healers typically have yellow caster speed.

 

[Elkie]

Hmm, so much bogus information displayed in this thread. First of all, Albs who complain about their realm's strengths in 8vs8 RvR (like Calaclya) are cheating themselves--yes, it is a convenient excuse so that you can avoid improving your own abilities, but it's hardly reality. In my view, 8vs8 RvR in DAoC is currently rather balanced; opted groups in all the three realms are quite evenly matched, with Mids having a slight edge (nowhere near being "unbeatable", like some Enchanter in this thread wants to claim).

I also find it amusing to see Stallion's self-righteous whine about the use and abuse of interrupting DPS debuff. No, just because you're RR11+ and have hoarded your dirty secret for a long time now does not give you more right to abuse this bug more than others. I guess the cat is out of the bag now, and I sincerely hope this is brought to Mythic's attention so that it can be fixed speedily. Sorry, QQ all you want, but I guess your little magic button will be gone soon:

Aug healers typically have yellow caster speed.

You tell me what utility Enchanters have over sm's bd's sorc's theurg's we have no way near the utility they have , the dps is fair in my opinion as bd's have the insta life tap wich interupts ect. The dps just gives chanter more of what they need and not evry chanter abuses it you only get slight few who no when to use it.

 

[Belomar]

You tell me what utility Enchanters have over sm's bd's sorc's theurg's we have no way near the utility they have, the dps is fair in my opinion as bd's have the insta life tap wich interupts ect.

Well, boo-fucking-hoo, you knew about your utility when you rolled your class, why not roll another class (or another realm for that matter) if you wanted something else? Of course it's "fair" in your opinion, you play a Chanter yourself, but the undispustable fact of the matter is that it is a bug, whereas BDs were designed to have an interrupting insta lifetap. From the horse's mouth:

Enchanter

- (Bug Fix) The Enchanter's Dazzling Strobe line of instant debuffs will no longer interrupt casters.

I've marked the relevant passage for your convenience.

The dps just gives chanter more of what they need and not evry chanter abuses it you only get slight few who no when to use it.

Ah, so knowing when to use it is not abusing it? Get real, everyone using the DPS debuff to interrupt is exploiting a bug, there is no distinction. It's not as if someone who is aware of it would refrain from using it sometimes to "play fair".

I'm only happy we are no longer in the Enchanter era, or I'd be looking at a constant deluge of interrupts on my Healer from trigger-happy Chanters. (Which, before you start, was rolled long after the initial ASD debuff nerf.)