Unbalanced realms

[civy]

I think we can agree that balanced servers are rare. In most cases one side is often the dominant side.

From what I’ve read the best gear in the game will come from sacking an enemy’s capitol and with the game aiming for a 50/50 split on skill/gear the dominant side will just get stronger over time.

I think this is my biggest fear for the game. What will happen when it becomes apparent that all you will have to look forward to is an endless retreat and an inevitable sacking of your capitol over and over.

 

[Gahn]

Mythic told us that they are implementing a IA solution for unbalanced realms (ala GW henchmen), which is nothing like Guards in Daoc (thx god), that SHOULD alleviate the problem in instances (since Capitol city sacking is instanced as far as we know).

 

[civy]

Mythic told us that they are implementing a IA solution for unbalanced realms (ala GW henchmen), which is nothing like Guards in Daoc (thx god), that SHOULD alleviate the problem in instances (since Capitol city sacking is instanced as far as we know).

Last I heard and it may have changed again was that the capitol fight wont be instanced and henchmen are out being replaced with X-Server Bg’s

 

[Gahn]

Last I heard and it may have changed again was that the capitol fight wont be instanced and henchmen are out being replaced with X-Server Bg’s

I might have mixed em up, but x-realm queues doesn't mean abolishing of the so called Dogs of War. If they move Capitol City sacking outta instance then it might be a BIG problem indeed.

 

[Gahn]

I actually didn't get it an inch right xD
The debate is raging through the "playerbase" atm and it is actually either x-realm queue or DoW that Mythic are considering. Playerbase seem oriented for DoW if it is necessary.
Still haven't found anything from Mythic about not instancing Capitol City sacking.

 

[civy]

Luckily it’s right at the start of the stream because the speed is hopeless, but he does say the city capture will be a skirmish and not a scenario

Internode Games Network File Library :: Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning - WAR-RvR.net - Mythic Open Day - RvR w/Q&A - 02_-_Scenarios_and_RvR.avi (No Registration Required)

 

[ileks]

I really hope they make the server population balance viewable at the selection screen. It would make a huge difference imo. When i started daoc i had no idea alb was over populated. If it was made obvious, i would have probably rolled another realm.

Similarly, i get the impression that many WoW players are tired of one side being over populated (i heard that order was far > than horde, although i never played WoW).

Simply letting us know what side is over populated before we make our characters would enable a large proportion of the player base to adjust before they start levelling- either by playing the other side, or playing your favourite race on another server (where they are under populated/balanced). Its such an easy thing to do and would definatly make a difference imo.

As for balancing things (because it will never be perfect), i would prefer a dogs of war system instead of x-server queues. I think getting to know you're enemies, as well as fighting along side the same people is what makes the game more competitive and long lasting, and creates a better community.

 

[Roffe]

Personally I’d rather play on the side that is underpopulated, but I agree that having a ratio that’s as close to 50/50 is the best.
Lets hope that Mythic takes this problem seriously and tries hard, both before and after the servers go live, to get as close to a 50/50 ratio as possible on all servers.

Why not change the standard : “show list of low pop servers” -> select server-> select realm .
Sure, this populates the low pop servers but thats it.

Select realm -> “show list of low pop servers where that realm is underpopulated”-> select server.
This both fills up the low pop servers and tries to balance the sides.

 

[Aesgir]

Aye, i'd prefer a system when it told you how many characters had been created on that particular race, i'd not want to join an over populated realm. It'd definitely make me suggest to my friends coming with me we went to a different server, so we could enjoy the game more.

As for Capitals being x-server instanced, i've never read that had even been suggested. As far as i know they are server specific, that being what your entire race is fighting for. If it was x-server, it'd make the entire fight kinda meaningless.

*Thinks back to DAoC days* The Albs might have been the enemy of everything we stood for, but dammit they were OUR Albs :england:

 

[Lizz]

Not to worried about unbalance tbh, my concern is i dont want another 1fps zerg situation like we had with relic raids in DAoC.
Think Jeff said they tryed out a 100+ situation and worked good..(some of the million interviews)
So hopefully the game will run nice and smooth in huge player events.

 

[SkarIronfist]

I gather there are up to 14+ methods to balance server population. When you create characters the system will be guiding you through to servers which can most benefit from your character.

DAOC had about 7 methods.

We are talking things like xp bonus's/money etc. Indicators on which side has the most players. Remember Mythic will have gained a shedload of experience about this, and even though they may not have been able to change stuff to much in DAOC, due to engine/server restrictions. This doesn't mean that they haven't include modifiers in Warhammer to allow them to manipulate numbers and guide the herd.

Ultimately though, people must have the choice to pick the side and server they want. Everything else is a merely helpful nudges in certain directions.

RE: City sacking. Last time I read, it was "indicated" that an open field event. Unless someone has a quote directly from a Mythic person OR have played the BETA and being using the City Sacking mechanism and is WILLING to break NDA. Then everything else is hyperbole. So validated quotes please.

There is a alot of this game that is still under NDA or hasn't even been released to the BETA servers. Remember the beta servers don't have all the development code base. There are development servers that sit prior to the BETA servers. Where code run and tested, before throwing it before the BETAers.

Personally I feel city sacking is the big event and should feel like DAOC battles of old with many many people lining the hills and fighting. We have been given specifically smaller instances to sate our need for small group RVR.

The only cross server action I gather is on the smaller instances.

 

[Gahn]

I vaguely remember in one of the many interviews that the Capitol Attack starts when some prerequisites are matched (formerly u control the 4 tiers) and that they were thinking on starting a big instance in which the people actually on line at the time could enter (balanced by DoWs) and capped it. If other players entered after the "big instance" started they would substitute dows till saturation of the instance.
I actually quite liked that idea cause it fix the out of game alarm mechanics and the prerequisites help avoiding the Alarm Clocked crew.
Oh well, we gonna see it at one point i guess ^^

 

[Gahn]

http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?SETVIEW=features&LOADFEATURE=1426&GAMEID=239&PAGE=1&bhcp=1

More infos about it.

 

[GReaper]

I'm more interested in how Mythic are planning to balance both realms and servers. Any game with large numbers of subscribers is likely to have problems with certain servers being overpopulated and others being empty. Blizzard had to rush through the character transfers to try and ease the situation.

Will Mythic be prepared with this? I don't want to end up being one of the first to roll on a server and Mythic taking a stance that we should've rolled elsewhere if the server is overpopulated.

 

[Aeiedil]

I'm sure one way or the other CF will be on the underdog realm given a choice, being part of the zerg is no fun, harder to find a target

 

[Toel]

Screw the rerollers

 

[chretien]

D: Play where my friends are and take my licks on population swings.

 

[Azziee]

Stay and fight ofcourse Nah usually you'll build up alot of friendship on your sever which is a shame to throw out indeed, thats my experience at least. And well, it can be fun to be outnumbered as well, you can really see who got skills, and you'll have alot of challenge as well

 

[Case]

If only we could go back in time and make Mythic design in 3 realms instead of 2

 

[Ctuchik]

I really hope they make the server population balance viewable at the selection screen. It would make a huge difference imo.

yes, 90% of the ppl will go to the most populated side because they don't want to lose.

a better suggestion (although that will never happened) is to force balance when new ppl create characters. IE if one side is widely overpopulated they just lock that realm for new players.

maybe harsh for new ppl that want to play with their friends but would probably be the best for balance in the long run.


either that or they could make a mercenary system of sorts. IE a option u click before you enter the game that takes you're toon to the least populated side. that way gaining XP/cash/whatever as a bonus.

 

[Ctuchik]

If only we could go back in time and make Mythic design in 3 realms instead of 2

can't see they do that even if they could. theres no 3 way war in warhammer iirc

 

[Aesgir]

can't see they do that even if they could. theres no 3 way war in warhammer iirc

Nope Warhammer was pretty much designed to be a fight between 'good and evil', so you only get the 2 sides, Destruction and Order. You kind of have a race....and its corrupt counterpart. Shame no Chaos Dwarves.....i might have been a bad dwarf, but at least i'd have had a comical hat

 

[vayasen]

I dont see why you couldnt have three sides?

For example why not the undead in there too, they could be killing anything that lived under Great Nagash's banner.

Nagash has fought against Skaven, humans, Dwarves, Orcs....the lot in his quest to raise ALL the dea dand have them rule the world.

 

[Vasconcelos]

I dont see why you couldnt have three sides?

For example why not the undead in there too, they could be killing anything that lived under Great Nagash's banner.

Nagash has fought against Skaven, humans, Dwarves, Orcs....the lot in his quest to raise ALL the dea dand have them rule the world.

Undead + vampire counts + tomb kings could be perfectly a 3rd side vs. all others. And could even be introduced in a expansion, tho i doubt Mythic would change the core design of his game from a 1vs1 to a 3 sides' royal rumble

 

[vayasen]

I read a thing by Mythic yday, saying they would use past experiences and use things that worked well and avoid things that didnt work well.

So, why no three sides or is that just 'interview waffle' ;p

 

[Oskorei]

yes, 90% of the ppl will go to the most populated side because they don't want to lose.

This 90% is exactly what makes zergs so much fun to fight with an experienced group. They're pretty good farmable.

 

[Vasconcelos]

This 90% is exactly what makes zergs so much fun to fight with an experienced group. They're pretty good farmable.

From a DAOC pov...

as far as WAR is concerned, except those playing beta, we didnt know jackshit if the rvr mechanichs will welcome gank groups.
And i very much doubt that with the lack of a daoc'esque CC system (as was stated sumwhere from Mythic), the gank grps will have the same success than in DAOC.

 

[Ctuchik]

I dont see why you couldnt have three sides?

because it wouldn't fit into the lore for this particular universe. u couldn't play undead in the RTS games could you?

its only in the 40k series they introduced that, and that is a completely different game.

it would be like asking Blizzard to make the burning legion a playable side. it just wouldn't work.

 

[vayasen]

TBH thats bull ;p

Warhammer is based on the BOARD GAME universe (also the old pen and paper game) where undead ARE a playable race.

Undead is a major race in the warhammer world.
GW Online : Warhammer : Vampire Counts : Vampire Counts Homepage

There is a link to some undead regiments from the board game (upon which this upcoming MMORPG is based). As with the other playable races in the game, Undead is one of the regiments you can build and fight with.

 

[Oskorei]

Well, if you say split into 3, you can split into so many more, since there are alot.

Basically Empire itself is devided between regular Empire, Norse, Brettonians, Saracens and so forth.

Elfes are besides High Elves and Dark Elves also Wood Elves,

Chaos is devided in 5 factions as you probably know, who also fight eachother.

Then there are Dwarves, but don't forget the Chaos Dwarves, who like to team up with Chaos from time to time.

Greenskins are actually all by themselves afaik, fighting empire, chaos, dwarves, elves...

Undead is also a solo group, but can be devided between 'regular' undead (liches like Nagash) and vampires afaik...and mummies i think?

Lizardmen are a solo group.

Skaven tend to band up with chaos, but basically want everything for themselves ofcourse...

Did I forget something? Ah well, anyway, you could split it more than 3 ways, is my point, but splitting it at least 3 ways probably needs more races, which needs more work, which will make Warhammer not come out until at least Q3 2010